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Comments about ‘LDS, Catholics must defend religious freedom, cardinal says at BYU’

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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 24 2010 12:15 a.m. MST

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@ What freedoms? (7:19)

You are more then welcome to have a Nativity Scene and say or have signs that say "Merry Christmas" - but if you are going to do it on government property, than government must show equal respect for other religions by displaying their symbols also.

Even in a community where 100% of the population is Christian (keeping in mind there are no such communities here in the US), not all Christians pray in the same way. Why should your children be forced to pray in a manner they believe is wrong?

If a society were predominately Jewish or Muslim, would you think it okay for your Christian child to be forced to worship according to the Muslim or Jewish faith?

And contrary to popular belief, no one is trying to prevent anyone from saying what they believe. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. If you want to preach against gays or blacks or women or anyone else, you can do that. But those people have the right to disagree with you and say so.

You cannot have your freedoms at the expense of others sacrificing theirs. That is not an attack - that is a democratic republic.

Pagan

What freedoms, the gay community has never advocated against:

Nativity scenes
Prayers in school

That is everyone else.

The gay community has only advocated the ability to marry the person of their choice. Not your choice.
Your right to freedom of speech is not limited but do not be under the impression that everyone will agree with what you say.

Bill, morality is not required by law. Rather simply to follow the laws. As laws are clear and morality is subjective from person to person.

My example?

Gov. Sanford cheated on his wife. She divorced him and he still keeps his very public job.

While others in this country cannot even marry to begin with.

Some would say this is a personal matter. And yet the logic is that because he did not follow traditional marriage, this somehow affected your marriage. (If you are)

And yet no outcry has been made in support of making divorce against the law.

So, to review, some work to deny marriage to others.

While they can divorce and re-marry without end.

interesting

how many critics of the Cardinal merely prove his point. For example: some have said that it was OK for MLK to use the pulpit because he adovated civil rights but its not ok for others to prevent civil rights by opposing abortion; yet one could easily argue that the right to life is the most fundamental civil right of all and statemens such as "if you dont approve of abortion - dont have one" are as idiotic as saying if you dont approve of slavery, dont buy one.

The fact is: many left wing activist groups not only enjoy tax exempt status - they also get government funding - while they simultaneously seek to punish politically incorrect religous groups by trying to eliminate their tax exempt status

My experience is that secular fundamentaists are even worse than religous ones because they are far more oblivious.

Anonymous

No one is inserting themselves into how Catholic Charities must be run.

Catholic Charities can do whatever they want.

Government organizations, however, are limited by anti-discrimination laws and must treat all citizens equally. (Remember that pesky little 14th Amendment?)

If a charitable organization chooses to act as an arm of the government, they are bound by the same regulations as the government and all other charitable organizations that are acting as governmental agents.

This is not an attack on religion - this is maintaining equal protection under the laws.

Catholic Charities can still do adoptions - they just have to do them as a private agency instead of a government organization.

@ K

"Canada is an example of why religious liberty once held sacred is now in danger."

Got any facts to back that up?

Waaaaaambulance!

I love how these special interests groups, anti-anything with rules and the rest of you that need a club to belong to, complain anytime that something is printed with LDS, Mormon, religion, God, Jesus or anything else that has a religous context to it. You act like children that don't want any rules in life. You complain that others are making you do something and when you finally get your way, you complain that the outcome of getting your way is someone else's fault. Homosexuality is a sexual choice not . Whether you believe in God or not, that is the fact. The homosexual community is and always has been unstable and largely promiscuous. It was no wonder that AIDS was able to do so much damage to the gay community so quickly. The combining of same genders causes innumerable issues on relationship levels, not to mention societal. Abortion is our next subject. The majority of abortions are not because of rape, they are because two irresponsible people had sex unprotected and didn't want the consequence of that.

Janet

Of course I remember the negatives of the 50's and 60's, but that doesn't change the fact that as commandments became suggestions, and any statement of right or wrong became intolerance, the social trends of rampant divorce, child abuse and neglect, sexual abuse, school violence, drug dependency, depression, addiction to pornography, and more than a million abortions a year became our new realities. A mild pro-life ad featuring Tim Tebow and purchased for the Super Bowl was assailed. I read the following in this morning's "Chronicle of Higher Education," regarding an ad on the NCAA website: "The promotion for the group, Focus on the Family, features a smiling father holding his young son, next to the words 'Celebrate Family. Celebrate Life.' Beneath the photo appears the message: 'All I want for my son is for him to grow up knowing how to do the right thing.'" Those who want moral anarchy want the dogma muzzled and locked in the closet. How in the world can anyone say that religion isn't under attack?

@ 8:14

If morality and decency are declining, then I suggest parents start teaching those values to their children.

People whine and whine and whine about the "nanny" state and then turn around and cry that the state isn't nannying then enough.

Anonymous

Fighting for morality and decency does not include discrimination. It does not include evicting a person, denying them a happy marriage, or firing them from a job because of who they date. It makes me truly sad to see some use religion as a defense for hatred.

If these are the values of your religion, I will have none of it. As discrimination has no value.

Justin

It's nice that two religions can come together to learn from each others' differences and can work together to make this state and the world a better place for ALL to live, and not just those of their respective churches.

I'm happy that the LDS and Catholics find mutual respect and appreciation, we should all learn from their example.

Leven

Any student of church and religious history can readily learn what a cruel and stupid master they are.

K

That's true, already in many states Catholic Charities no longer work in adoption because they can't place with same sex couples.

imagine if LDS family services were required to place children with homosexual couples not holding a Temple Recommend?

Than no group has to the right to speak against or for a measure on the ballot, period. Including nonreligous groups. Their freedom to express became power to regress with the vandalism, threats to the K of C, disruption of mass and mob at the Temple, some were encouraged to fire employees that supported the measure. Is it up to the people or not?

Anonymous

As one "progressive" I think I can state with conviction that we do not want to circumscribe anyone's right to practice their religion or even to fight for your moral beliefs and practices in the public arena, but we do want to uphold the constitution so as to not have our goverment "respect an (particular) establishment of religion". In terms of public policy, this means that the moral and political views of the Catholic and Mormon Churches as well as other religious and philosophical viewpoints, should be heard and considered, but never to the ultimate exclusion of non religious ideas and objectives.

I am glad to see that the Catholic and Mormon churches have found they have common values. Who would have thought that possible that even 20 years ago?

Anonymous

I have had 2 jobs where I was ridiculed because I was LDS. Or at lease because I held to my values. This was in Salt Lake. It happens. I just kept to my values and loved others. Thats important. I have many friends from those 2 jobs.

re: Persecution complexes galore

"as an employee myself, I've experienced first hand plenty of negative job actions because I wasn't LDS."

Really

How?

I am not LDS either but my experience is exactly the opposite
most of those who discriminate againt Mormons remian quite oblivious to their own actions For example: Rocky Anderson was quite infamous for passing over qualified Mormons (or white people or men or any so-called priviledged class)for any job, and it was all done in the name of "diversity"
he thought he was tolerant because he was intolerant

Anonymous

A meta-analysis of 55 independent studies carried out in the United States with more than 20,000 mostly Christian participants has found that members of religious congregations tend to harbor prejudiced views of other races.

In general, the more devout the community, the greater the racism, according to the authors of the analysis, led by Wendy Wood, Provost Professor of Psychology and Business at USC College and the USC Marshall School of Business. The study appears in the February issue of Personality and Social Psychology Review.

“Religious groups distinguish between believers and non-believers and moral people and immoral ones,” Wood said. “So perhaps it’s no surprise that the strongly religious people in our research, who were mostly white Christians, discriminated against others who were different from them – blacks and minorities.”

You're so gay...

When was the last time you heard someone say, "You're so gay." "That'ss so gay." It's such a part of our culture to bash gays that we don't even think about the hidden and not-so-hidden prejudices. It is so obvious that those being persecuted and treated as second-class citizens are gays -- not the "religious." Wake up! As an active LDS woman, I find our persecution complex embarassing.

Anonymous

True religious freedom means not just freedom to worship or "individual conscience rights as long as you don't make anyone unhappy," but the right to "influence the public square," he added.

The right to influence the public square, that's what we're talking about here, not the right to believe something.

And the right to influence is what IS ABSOLUTELY being threatened today, some of you need to pay more attention.

Anonymous

re: F | 11:36 p.m. Feb. 23, 2010

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Satan also about Blind complicity and lack of choice.

If (any) Organized Religion had their way we'd all herded about like the sheep some people already behave like. Then, Voltaire said, "Its hard to free fools from the chains they revere."


re: Persecution complexes galore | 8:15 a.m. Feb. 24, 2010
"I've _never_ taken a job action for or against an employee because they were religious.

However, as an employee myself, I've experienced first hand plenty of negative job actions because I wasn't LDS."

I can't disagree. Its because Mormons have been the overwhleming & dominant majority in this state for so long. Now, that the demographics are slowly moderating, they can't cope so they get defensive.

LOL!

Buzzards all need to spend quality time together.

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