Comments about ‘LDS, Catholics must defend religious freedom, cardinal says at BYU’

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Published: Wednesday, Feb. 24 2010 12:15 a.m. MST

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Anonymous

to -- Re to OKay- RexidaWyo | 1:20 p.m

["Call it whatever you may but don't call it marriage and don't force its unnatural existence on my children"]

no one is forcing anything on your children. either you bring them up to adhere to your moral code or you don't

and since you like to pray, I suggest you do so, just in case one of your children is one of the 4% of people that ARE gay. because gay marriage won't make your child gay. your God does that. and has done so since the beginning of time...

Anonymous

to -- Re to OKay- RexidaWyo | 1:20 p.m

["Call it whatever you may but don't call it marriage and don't force its unnatural existence on my children"]

no one is forcing anything on your children. either you bring them up to adhere to your moral code or you don't

and since you like to pray, I suggest you do so, just in case one of your children is one of the 4% of people that ARE gay. because gay marriage won't make your child gay. God does that. and has done so since the beginning of time...

realitycheck

to "Jeff | 4:35 p.m"

you cannot take away the rights of an entire segment of the population, and continually demean them, and expect no backlash.

so some of your friends got fired. and you got hate mail... wow. big deal.

what if they made it so you couldn't ever get married? isn't that worse?

you can have any religious beliefs you want. that does not give you the right to legislate your brand of morality onto people that do not share your faith or beliefs.

but that is exactly what you did. and now you complain about the consequences?

Vince


Children do not become gay by exposure to the talk of gay/same sex marriage anymore than gay children become straight by exposure to heterosexual marriage.

RE: realitycheck

Actually if I can convince majority to go along with me, I can legislate morality.

That's how this system, this constitutional republic works.

EVERY LAW has an underpining of morality.


the gays have FAILED, over and over again to convince the majority to vote there way,

religious have the right to vote for laws they want,

so long they are not unconstitutioninal.


pragmatist

I have read more than enough comments here to last a long long time. What marriage law should be about is to protect children born of a union. Whether born in or out of marriage every child deserves the right to know who both their parents are, and to demand support from both parents. Laws concerning this should be what are important and with DNA testing this should be possible. If we need more laws concerning marriage, we need laws about the rights of children rather than worrying about same sex marriage, etc.

John Pack Lambert

The hate for sources that dare to report what actually goes on is quite disturbing. Next will people question that Bash Back issued the threat of violence in which they said the LDS Church could either disolve wilfully or be destroyed?
All people have equal rights to marry in California and the other 30 states that have pro-man/woman marriage provisions in the state constitution. The measure allows me to marry the EXACT SAME set of people as any homosexual male can. The laws do not distinguish based on sexual orientation, so the alnalogy to inter-racial marriage is FALSE.

John Pack Lambert

To the 9:40 commentator,
The "gay community" is SO politically vulnerable that both the governor and the attorney general of California have REFUSED to fulfill their legal duty to uphold the law, and a coalition of private individuals had to form to protect the state constitution.
If the ability to have politicians not perform their regular duties and protect the law is an eample of "political powerlessness" than NO group has political power.

John Pack Lambert

To the 9:54 commentator,
Discussion boards are privately owned entites. The owner of the board has the right to impose whatever rules they want, as we have seen at times when all comments have been shut down when too high a number of the recieved comments were threats of violence.
The First Admendment only regulates the actions of the government. In fact, since it also includes the freedom of the press, it clearly and explicitly states that news organizations (which includes discussion boards operated by newspapers like this one) can impose ANY rules they want on discussion.
Lastly, there are already banned words. That is the only way to explain that certain words never appear in any post.

John Pack Lambert

To the 12:02 commentor,
What Mormons where killed a "gay" guy? Until you site what specific incident you speak of that has little meaning.
Beyound this, you are putting words into my mouth. I posted the quote from Bevan, and it is clearly threatening.
I said that such hate exists is disturbing. I also think it is not a good think that people attack the IRS, abortion clinics, pro-life marchers and many other things.
It is true that the Anit-Defamation League which totally opposed Prop 8 did denounce this behavior of anti-8 elements.
However, it is also true that when Francis Cardinal George calls this behavior what it truly is, or when Elder Dallin H. Oaks calls it out for the attempt to intimadate people out of exercising their civil right to contribute to campaigns, they are denounced with unrestrained vitriol. People should no more fear they are going to have their property damaged for donating money to a political campaign than they should fear that they will have their property damaged for voting a certain way in an election.

John Pack Lambert

For the hundredth time, how is ANYONE trying to dictate another person's life.
Can a homosexual person in California or anyone other state legally live in the same residence as their same gender partner, and so on? Yes. Can I marry a gay man? No. Can a gay man marry a gay man? No. On the other hand under the old Virginia law, it would be, can I marry a white woman? Yes (since I am less than 1/16th Native American, possibly as high as 1/64th though), could my friend Bruce from Curacao have married a white women (as he actually did, but in the 21st century) if he had lived in Virginia in 1960, No.
So in one case, the people who claim discrimination can marry the same set of people as those who they claim are recipients of "different" treatment, while in the other case the two groups can marry different people.

@JohnPackLambert

What are you talking about? Gov. and Attorney General refusing to fulfill their legal duty?

The CA Supreme Court, considered to be a Conservative court, overturned Prop 22. Then Prop 8 was put on the ballot to change the State Constitution.

DN does censor posts. I've had many posts censored which were not in anyway abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative or vulgar.

Plain as day

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

People read more into this than what is written. There is no mention of a separation of Church and State. Quite the contrary, the government is obligated to protect religious freedom and to refrain from officially (be decree of law), recognizing any particular religion. Separation of Church and state is a myth invented by progressives. It is certainly not in the language of the first Amendment.

Religons have the right to participate in public debates and the goverment has not right to exclude them.

Pagan

'I've seen my sacred temples desecrated; I've had friends fired from their jobs or forced into resignation; I've recieved hate mail; I've had my name posted on a web site that urged people to put pressure on me to change; I've seen a public school curriculum that openly endorses homosexuality.' - 4:35 p.m.

Jeff, that's a long list. Can you prove any of these happened? Or should we take your word for it?

I have been discharged from the Army. March, 3 1999.
I have been evicted from my home. 02/03/01
I've had my friends eye socket cracked because of who he dates. David Bell and Dan Fair. 06/03/08
I've been compared to a pedophile on these threads. Almost daily.
And I take no issue with future generations knowing that heterosexuals exist. Daily.

I'm not trying to play the 'bigger victim' game, like some do but I think your comparisons are weak.

The last factual example of religious discrimination on this thread given was in 1840. 170 years ago.

Get off that cross, someone needs the wood.

Anonymous

JPL, you are ignoring a accurate comparison.

If your a straight male, can you marry a woman?
Yes.
Your statement of the facts ignores a person's ability to choose a spouse.
If you are a gay man, thereby acknowledging that you would not WANT to be sexually active with a woman, can you marry said straight woman you are not attracted to?
Yes.
Now, same logic, not plain statement of fact, applied to you.
If you are a straight man, thereby acknowledging that you would not WANT to be sexually active with a man, can you marry said gay man that you are not attracted to?
No.

It's not 'a gay man can marry a woman'. That is foolish as a gay man would not want to ruin her life. (And neither, should you encourage.) But rather does a gay person have the option to marry a person they would like to?
No.

While a straight man, JPL, I'm guessing, can.

So, one person can marry a person of their choice, but the other cannot.

And you call this fair?

To Pagan

Please know that there are many (including active LDS) who completely support you. It's going to be a long, difficult battle, but eventually you will be accepted as the human being you are, with the civil rights you deserve! God Speed.

Jeff

@ Pagan:

"sacred temples desecrated": Los Angeles, four times in November 2008, including an apparent anthrax attack

"I've had friends fired from their jobs or forced into resignation": Scott Eckern, famously in 2008 from California Music Theater

I've recieved hate mail: autumn 2008, addressed anonymously from the San Francisco Bay area

I've had my name posted on a web site that urged people to put pressure on me to change: You'll have to look me up on your own; I won't reveal my identity

I've seen a public school curriculum that openly endorses homosexuality: Los Angeles Unified School District has had a curriculum endorsing homosexuality since at least 1992. In an op-ed piece in the Los Angeles Times this week, there was a call for more pointed teaching of the biological compulsion of homosexuality in order to prepare school children to accept it.

Pagan

'Please know that there are many (including active LDS) who completely support you.' - 9:00 a.m.

The back of the bus is not good enough for any of us.

Thank you.

Anonymous

What Mormons where killed a "gay" guy?


John, Russell Arthur Henderson. He killed a homosexual in Laramie, Wyoming. October 7, 1998. You might have heard of him, Mathew Sheppard.
Russell Henderson was LDS at the time. He has since been excemunicated. I do not say this to encourage violence against the LDS church. Violence is not the answer to violence. Sheppard's mother is evidence of that trying to get hate crime to cover orientation.
I use this as an example that sometimes hate is still encouraged in some places.
Let's work together to makes sure it is not encouraged here.

Pagan

Jeff,

Thanks for providing date and time. Now, since most of these are from 2 years ago, can you give any idea as to why it happened?

While I agree, everyone should have the right to express their opinions, do you honestly think that everyone should simply agree to them because they are from any particular type of religion?

Also, I have heard of the 'apparent anthrax attack'. Wasn't that flour?

So, we both have examples of job discrimination.
I think being compared to a pedophile counts as hate mail.
BYU did aversion therapy studies to attempt a change people's orientation. Or 'change'.
The gay community has no temples to speak of. Just marriage rights to revoke.
Also, some public schools teach sex ed. Which means they teach out heterosexuals, correct?

When was a friend of yours attacked? Did they require hospitalization? Were any charges pressed?

David Bell and Dan fair did. And no charges to date.

Your comparisons are better but there is still a gap of 168 years you ignore.

Also, I do not get mad at learning about heterosexuals like you do about homosexuals.

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