Republicans question a proposed study on discrimination
Good. Most people here in Utah are glad.
"We're sticking to the agreement," said Equality Utah executive director Brandie
Balken." So now Equality Utah is now a member of the Legislature?
Rep. Sandstrom, don't let Rep. C Johnson bully you into dropping your
I can't understand, if you're "born different", you don't get the same
privileges as others? So they are less than us? What would the Savior do?
You mean they don't have housing and anti-discrimination rights? When we all
live in peace?
Since the arrangements for the "truce" were done in secret, there is no way for
the public, of which all our legislators are supposed to represent, to
understand how or why our legislative leaders thought that "doing nothing"
(Party of "No"?) was the right thing to do.In the absence of any
meaningful information, the vast majority of Utahns undoubtedly feel the same
way, that is, that it is an election year and none of our 'politicos' want to
have their thoughts, feelings and activities visible in the light of day.In my opinion, Utah should press ahead with attempting to provide 'common
ground' rights to all citizens of Utah, no matter where in the state they might
All evidence points to YES in my opinion.
Big mistake. The legislators know what the majority of Utahns want and
posponing the issue will not make us happy come election time. State senators
and representatives, do your job or go home.
Utah Labor Commission website:"Utah courts have three general
exceptions to the at-will rule: (1) when the termination violates clear and
substantial Utah public policy; (2) when an implied or express contractual term
requires dismissal only for cause; or (3) a statute or regulation restricts the
employer's right to terminate.""Utah Code Annotated, Title 34A
Chapter 5. The Act prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of race,
color, national origin, gender, religion, age, and disability. Utah's law also
prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, childbirth, or
pregnancy-related conditions."And now, in Salt Lake City public
policy includes sexual orientation.How is this a violation of
Once again bigotry and Utah’s spineless politicians decide to postpone
making a decision.Once again, politicians have decided that “there
are more pressing issues” than the protection and equality of all
citizens.When is Utah going to answer the call of being the light of the
nation? Utah, your sin is that you failed to look for justice and fairness for
all. You have failed in “denying yourself “and follow the Lord. Just
like in antiquity you have allowed the provincial fears and bigotry of an
ignorant people to take over your destiny. You are going to be judged by the
love you show to the needy and undesirable among you.Just like the
Pharisees you wrap yourselves in a cloak of faked morality forgetting what is
important to the eyes of the Lord. You should repent and rise above your
"Senate Majority Whip Wayne Niederhauser, R-Sandy, has been working on a
resolution reaffirming the traditional family, as has Sen. Stuart Adams,
R-Layton."** Oh joy, more fluff. What is with you fluff-heads?
Oh Pleeeze...get off your sanctimony by which you cry foul and hypocracy,
when in fact it is you who are lacking in understanding of the underlying
debateable facts and issues.You, Sir or Madam, should repent and crawl out
from behind your impious bleeding heart.
is it really any shock that the conservatives are nervous about studying the
issue since the facts never fall in their favor on the issue of gay rights? if
they believe they are right then why fear the study let it move forward.
I am deeply offended every time neo-homosexual issues come up, all the verbal
batterings against LDS and Utahns flare up again. Do progressive educated
individuals not know that there are opposition voices from all persuasions and
ideology. @6:11 a.m. Feb. 3, 2010,Show us the way
Time for more study? The Salt Lake City's discrimination report,
not even 7 months old, (came out in July '09) had over 300 cases of documented
discrimination in Salt Lake City alone. Do you really think it is 'better' to be
a gay/lesbian person outside of SLC in Utah? St. George? Provo? I
doubt it. "As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with gay
rights.' - Rep. Stephen Sandstrom, R-Orem I would agree. Because
being gay offers zero protections in Utah. Essentailly being gay gives you no
rights. No right to discrimination protection at work, none in rental
agreements. A person can legally fire you or evict you because of who you date.
Not what you do. '....recently passed by Salt Lake City and Salt
Lake County with the support of the LDS Church.' So, the LDS church
and the gay community are in agreement that work and housing discrimination due
to orientation is wrong. And yet our Utah legislature thinks we
should do nothing and 'study it more.' I have heard enough. I am
tired of the constant bait and switch our legislature feeds us. Next
election, my vote is my voice.
So... If I own a property that rents to, say 6 girls, and there is a vacancy and
a lesbian wants to move in and makes it known that she is lesbian. Do the other
girls have to live with her even if they don't feel comfortable because I can't
discriminate? Where does that leave me as a property owner? I can't
discriminate but the other 5 renters will give notice. Then my property is not
attractive to others unless they are also lesbian? This happened to my brother
by the way. I think we should be allowed to rent to whom we want. We have the
freedom of association. And if it is OUR OWN property we should be able to do
what we want with it. Stop telling me what to do with my own property!
Truce? Wouldn't that mean both parties relent to some compromise? But our
Utah legislature seems to think we should 'study it more' with no end date in
sight. Essentially they say 'I don't want to allow it, so I'm going to keep
putting it off indefinitely, until it's someone else's problem.' This will
simply anger not only the gay community but also members (and leaders?) of the
LDS church who see work discrimination as something that needs to CHANGE, not
something that needs to be enforced. Party of 'NO!' meet everyone
else. Your 'truce' was over when you decided to stall basic civil
The girls who live there do not 'need' to live there, correct? They pay you to
live there. If your hypothetical lesbian can pay the rent to live there what is
the difference? As a landlord your primary concern is who CAN pay you the
rent and who CANNOT. Or do you give 'discounts' to single women who rent from
you? Shameful. Regardless, just because you own a property does not
mean it is sovereign territory that secedes from America. You were able to buy
the land because of the state you live in. You were able to buy from the state
because of the country you live in. As such you need to adhere to both their
laws. If you cannot do that, try moving to communist china, and see how
much more 'freedom' you have in places where freedom truly is, dictated too you.
So, if I fire a mormon would our legislature ask for more time for study?
@ Utah Repent | 7:49 a.m. Feb. 3, 2010 Oh Pleeeze...get off your
sanctimony by which you cry foul and hypocracy, when in fact it is you who are
lacking in understanding of the underlying debateable facts and issues.You, Sir or Madam, should repent and crawl out from behind your impious
bleeding heart.-------The LDS church is on Utah Repent's
side, btw. Do you want to fight them too?I know who they will back
up. Do you?
unbelievable.I thought we left the 1960s behind us. Apparently not
so in Utah. Catch up to the 21st century, Utah, you can do it.
Where does that leave me as a property owner? I can't discriminate but the
other 5 renters will give notice. - 8:26 a.m. I doubt all of your
hypothetical '5 girls' would care unless the lesbian made unwanted advances too
them and didn't stop. And le'ts be real, that happens sometimes regardless of a
person's orientation. I can count on hands and feet the times a man has tried to
make advances on me because 'I'm a woman.' Bottom line, orientation is not
an issue unless people make it one. If your renters wanted to leave because
someone is gay or lesbian, odds are they were going to give you notice on some
other childish reason also. You new tennent's not LDS? Left-handed? Has
red hair? People will always find new and creative ways to find differences
instead of what unifies them. Just like you. As a landlord, you should
only care if they can pay you...or not.
@Anonymous 8:26am: I own several properties and never heard
something as ridiculous as that. I rent and will continue to rent to openly gay
people as well as straight people. Most people that I talk to move
out because of:1. Too small2. Too expensive4. Buying a house
of their ownNever have I heard that people are moving out because of
an openly gay person.Quit coming up with your paranoid and
hypothetical situations that rarely happen in real life. Its closed minded
people like you that give it the perception that its okay to discriminate in the
You've got to wonder about people who are always so preoccupied with
homosexuality as if it's their own personal bogeyman.
Utah, you are a bigot.
This is a huge non-issue, a waste of time. It might be a small issue in Salt
Lake, it is a complete non-issue everywhere else. Quit wasting time, get back to
work on issues that matter.
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of
lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice," she
said. "But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice
anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'" "I appeal to everyone who believes
in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and
sisterhood for lesbian and gay people," Coretta Scott King. - Reuters, March 31,
Richard Socarides, a Clinton adviser said "Look, we are not second-class
citizens and our rights are not second-term problems,". DSNews 01/28/10
I love the statement, "it's my property so I should be able to do whatever I
want on it." Uber-conservatives consistently tout property rights but seem to
always forget the responsibilities that are tied with those rights. I find it odd that religion is protected though it is obviously a "choice".
Even those that argue that being gay is a "choice", we have protected people's
"choices" for generations.
'It might be a small issue in Salt Lake, it is a complete non-issue everywhere
else.' - 8:55 a.m. Don't most other places have these laws in place
already? Or does an issue only matter when it affects you? If that's
the case, then this should pass, shouldn't it?
The LDS church actually sides with the gay community on this. Work
discrimination and rental discrimination deserve no part in Utah.
Something our legislature will find out all too painfully with the next roster
“I can't understand, if you're "born different", you don't get the same
privileges as others? So they are less than us? What would the Savior do?”
What is so hard to understand? Would Christ give a driver’s
license to someone born blind? Would he give child-care rights to someone who
can’t resist the urge to abuse children? Would Christ demand that
amusement parks be forced to redesign their rides so that 800 pound people can
ride them too? Would He force museums to include the artwork of people who have
no artistic talent? Would he force publishers to publish books from people who
were born without writing skills? There is no implication of
inferiority. We are all unique. Some are born with qualities that others do
not have. The good son was not inferior to the prodigal son just because no
banquet was offered for him. I’ll tell you what Christ would do. He would
tell people to be grateful for their multitudes of blessings, talents,
abilities, and privileges and not to be concerned about the few privileges that
do not apply to them.
You wrote: "There are no rights for Gays in Utah.."You are wrong.
Every gay person in Utah has the exact same rights as me. What you mean to say
is "There are no SPECIAL rights for Gays in Utah." In my opinion, that's the way
most of the citizens of this state like it. I don't think that makes
us bigots. I realize that opinion puts me at odds with most of the
pro-special-gay-rights bloggers who flood comment boards like this one with
comments like "get with the times", "what would Jesus do", and "giving special
rights to our group won't give you less rights".
'This is a huge non-issue, a waste of time.' - 8:55 a.m. Spoken like
a true heterosexual. You realize you have an orientation, correct?
I can't believe that someone is actually equating homosexual rights to freedom
of religion. There is no comparison. Our nation had its origins because of
freedom of religion. Sodom and Gomorrah...here we come!!!
'You are wrong. Every gay person in Utah has the exact same rights as me.' -
9:16 a.m. Ok! For this to be comparable, please give,
date, time, and place that you were fired for being straight. I know
I have my example!
" I’ll tell you what Christ would do. He would tell people to be grateful
for their multitudes of blessings, talents, abilities, and privileges and not to
be concerned about the few privileges that do not apply to them."Just like the black people or women. Why did they have to fight for equal
rights? Just be happy for their blessings, talents, ablilities, and privileges
and do not be concerned about the few privileges that do not apply to them.See how horrible that really sounds?
There you go again, with your one-sided display of “facts”. You
announce 300 cases of documented discrimination in Salt Lake City, but make no
effort to put that into any kind of context. How does it compare to
discrimination against Mormons, or women, or fat people? How serious were these
cases of discrimination? Pagan doesn’t care. Frankly, I don’t see
the masses of desolate and homeless gay people wandering the streets.Regardless of your skewed view of reality, gays have all the rights that
everyone else has. A person can legally fire you or evict anyone, if they are
aware of behavior they consider to be immoral. The fact that many gays do not
see their behavior as immoral does mean that their bosses and landlord should be
forced to agree. If gays want jobs or apartments, they should live according to
the moral behavior their bosses and landlords expect of them — just like
There is no implication of inferiority. We are all unique. Unique
does not mean 'less'. And as such, a gay person if they are not 'less than'
someone else should have 'equal too' the same rights and protections you
covet. Do not try to use the word 'unique' in place of 'less' to try and
make your weak point that we are all created equal. We are. Utah
legislature simply needs more 'time' to realize this. It's 2010. Time
enough has passed.
Sodom and Gomorrah...here we come!!! Did you really just quote a
2000 year old book in comparison to my very now right to have a job? Many
people consider the bible to be a work of fiction. Have you read the good
works of harry potter? If you can't think of a reason by yourself, don't
use other peoples words to justify your blind hate.
'You announce 300 cases of documented discrimination in Salt Lake City, but make
no effort to put that into any kind of context. How does it compare to
discrimination against Mormons...' - 9:31 a.m. There you go again.
Trying to change the subject. But no, let's pretend you have a point. Ok, 1)
Being mormon is a religion. Factually, it is a choice, right? And yet religion
is covered under discrimination in the United States. A person cannot legally
fire you for simply being mormon. 2) This issue is not about mormon
rights. Or any other rights. Why should there be a comparison? The established
fact by not only the SLC discrimination report is that discrimination does exist
towards members of the LGBT community, correct? So, not IF it exists but
how severe. 3) Your morality is irrelevant. In my life and in American
laws. Only if a person breaks the laws do you get to evict them. Not because of
what tv they watch on tuesday. 4) I doubt your morality is made clear on
any lease or work agreement. (i.e. you must be 'X' religion to work here) Your only 'fact' is that you discriminate.
Being aware of the discrimination you face does not give it justification.
It's really very simple. If you can serve, why can't someone else?
the trouble most people have with issues like this isn't the gay
thing, it's how the gay thing is used to hide the fact that sometimes bad
tenants come in all forms, but when someone's gay, they can say, "You're
discriminating!" Then the lawsuits start and who really wants to be
subjected to that? For most people, who are discrete and respectful,
this should be a nonissue, regardless of orientation, because sex doesn't factor
into the equation.
What if I thought practicing your religion was immoral? Now you need to live by
what I consider is moral. BTW, you're fired and you have 3 days to
move your furniture out of my property! How does that sound to you?Your logic is very flawed.
So, all these hypothetical 5 women are roommates, correct? As their landlord,
why are you picking their new roommate? If they are not roommates, what
business is it of theirs who is living in a separate unit?And this
did not happen to your brother because this just barely became the law and the
roommate situation is a little different from the general renting situation.Also, if your only rental unit is the basement apartment in your house,
you are probably safe from this law.Come on, people! At least do a
little research on what you are objecting to!
I don't get the utah legislator. They are complaining about the federal
government interfering with states rights. Then they want to overturn laws that
a city passes. They are doing the exact same thing to cities that they are
complaining about the feds doing to them. Hypocrits.
"You are wrong. Every gay person in Utah has the exact same rights as me. What
you mean to say is "There are no SPECIAL rights for Gays in Utah." In my
opinion, that's the way most of the citizens of this state like it."1) You're wrong. This isn't about "special rights", everyone has a sexual
orientation and so EVERYONE is covered by this.2) The majority of the
people in this state DON'T support your opinion. All of the polling data shows
Utahns support these protections.
Well if it is true that gays and lesbians do not have equal rights in Utah,
which I doubt they do then I see no reason for them to have to pay state or
local taxes if they have no rights. Somewhere I heard no taxation without
"What if I thought practicing your religion was immoral?" If you fired
someone because of this, then you would be in legal trouble, as freedom of
religion is part of the constitution this country is based around. Personally,
I think that discrimination based on religion, race, color, gender, or sexual
orientation is extremely wrong morally, because then you are forcing your moral
beliefs on someone else. The way it's being discussed on here, the mere idea of
being gay or lesbian is 'wrong'. Personally, at a job, if someone is gay or
straight doesn't matter so long as they aren't forcing themselves on you. Just
like if someone is Mormon, Christian, Baptist, Muslim, etc. They have their
religion and are not breaking the law by following it, and so long as someone of
the LGBT community isn't hurting someone, why is it even an issue?
So, talking about your orientation is not 'descrete and respectful?' Then
what do you call sending out invitations to your wedding?
I recently decided to seek a new job after retiring from the Federal Govt. I am
highly educated, hold graduate degrees, and have years of experience in my
profession. I have been interviewed by 5 employers who looked at my resume.
However I am keenly aware that I have not been hired by at least two employers
because of my age. They other three offered me the positions because of my age
and experience.So I have been discriminated against, even though my
age was never mentioned? Am I angry or upset, ready to file lawsuits or demand
further legal protections, I am NOT. Employers should have the right to hire
the best candidate for their business and landlords should be allowed to select
the renters they want in their property. Their profit margins may depend on
those choices. Some many want to hire and rent to gays, others may not.Gays, get over yourselves, life is often not fair, learn to live with
it. Why impose your demands for recognition on the those of us who do not agree
with your unnatural lifestyle. We have rights too.
Your boss (unless you work for a church or some similar entity) or landlord
cannot make you live up to a 'moral' behaviour; that's a ridiculous idea! If my
boss is a vegetarian, can they force me to be one too? If my landlord is
atheist, can they keep me from having a Christian symbol or sticker on my car?
No, of course not! Unless what you are doing is illegal or detrimental to
either your job or place of residence, they can't dictate what goes on in your
this sounds like more of this "big government" interferance I keep hearing
about, passing laws to tell cities and counties that they can't have their own
anti-discrimination ordinances? Tell the government to stay out of our business
and quit sticking their noses in our bedrooms and wedding chappels, how's that?
And Utah complains about states rights? They wont even let local governments
make their own decisions without trying to tie their hands. Tell the lawmakers
to get to work on the real issues and to quick messing around with the silly
stuff. I WANT MY STATE BACK from the Government!
["So... If I own a property that rents to, say 6 girls, and there is a vacancy
and a lesbian wants to move in and makes it known that she is lesbian. Do the
other girls have to live with her even if they don't feel comfortable because I
can't discriminate?"]what if it was a black woman and the other
girls didn't like black people? then would you feel comfortable
discriminating?how is that different?
“Just like the black people or women. Why did they have to fight for equal
rights? Just be happy for their blessings, talents, abilities, and privileges
and do not be concerned about the few privileges that do not apply to them.See how horrible that really sounds?”It does not sound
horrible at all. Blacks and women, in the past, fought for rights that DID
apply to them. I would have fought along side them. When gays fight for rights
that apply to them, I fight with them too. When they fight for
rights that do not apply to them, I fight against them. The right to marry does
not apply to gay people. The right to force people to ignore your behavior does
not apply to anybody.
["I can't believe that someone is actually equating homosexual rights to freedom
of religion. There is no comparison. Our nation had its origins because of
freedom of religion."]they are both a choice. how is there ANY
difference?and our nation may have some origins in freedom of
religion, but gays fought along side heteros against the english. a gay man
probably steered Washington's boat as he crossed the Potomac.didn't
you ever wonder about those funky wigs? do you have ANY idea how many of our
nation's founders were gay? and they were treated with respect back then. now
you treat them with distain. yet they helped create this country that you act
like you care about so much...you have no clue.
I do discriminate and so do you. Otherwise you wouldn’t care with whom
who you strike up a relationship.Funny that you attempt to denigrate
my comment and then cannot disprove it.1)Being Mormon means
believing something. Being gay means believing something. Beliefs is beliefs.
People fired or discriminated against for being Mormons. My point was that you
claim it’s worse for gays without comparing it to anything. It’s
worse for gays, you say. Well, worse than what?2)No one said
discrimination does not exist against gays. What is relevant is whether the
discrimination is any worse than what exists against other groups.3)If American laws protect people from their landowner’s morality, then
there is no need for additional laws, Right? If laws say you can’t evict
people unless they break the law, then why are we seeking another law? If such
laws do not exist, then landowners currently have the right that you want taken
from them.4)Most businesses have a rules against behavior that they
believe will negatively affect their business.
When my daughter was in high school she had a lesbian classmate who would stand
and stare at other girls when they were changing. She was outspoken about her
sexual orientation, so they knew why she was staring and it was very
uncomfortable.If I were a landlord in the hypothetical situation
presented by Anonymous above, I would want to be able talk to the other 5
roommates to see if they were comfortable living with someone who may be
interested in them sexually. If they objected I would want to have the option
of saying no to the lesbian renter rather than having the other 5 move out.
Expecting the 5 straight girls to be okay with a lesbian moving in would be the
same as renting the 6th space to a male without their okay.I have
always thought that gays should be able to openly serve in the military as long
as straight soldiers have the option of not rooming with a gay person. No one
should be forced to share their living space with a person of the opposite sex
or same sex orientation who may develop an unwanted sexual interest in them.
Brandon, you're missing the point. Please read the name section and refer to
the time stamp. Read that section (which the person states that people need to
live under their boss or landlord's moral code) and then read mine. You will
see what I'm getting at.
I worked with military personnel for many years and I completely understand why
the "don't ask don't tell policy'. I'm not sure why there would be any
discrimination if people would keep there mouths shut about many of their
personal preferences, including religion and politics.
"My point was that you claim it’s worse for gays without comparing it to
anything. It’s worse for gays, you say. Well, worse than what?"Are you seriously asking this question???It's worse for gays
because they DON'T HAVE LAWS PROTECTING THEM Mormons on the other hand do...
The bottom line is homosexuals have all the exact same rights as everyone
else when it comes to marriage, housing, employment etc. The problem is they
choose to waive these rights when they choose homosexuality as their sexual
preference. And, yes, it is a choice. To believe otherwise is to deny biology,
physiology, nature and evolution. In fact, to accept homosexuality as natural
behavior is to deny life itself. And changing laws that have been around for
thousands of years to accomodate people who don't want to obey exisitng laws
(which are EXACTLY the same for everybody) is an horribly bad precedent.
I do not appreciate or approve of "Closed doors" and will not vote for anyone
who engages in that behavior. The people's servants' soon forgetThat they are to
represent the people.I think gays are wrong in their choices. I
think they are hell-bent on being validated in their behavior, let alone all the
ramifications and spread of disease. They were "not born different", they chose
to be different.
So if the pro-family conservatives back off from passing any anti-gay laws this
year, maybe they have time to criminalize and punish heterosexual divorce?
Utah was 'in trouble' when they thought job protections from discrimination was
Your argument is baseless as you obviously have not read or understand the City
and County ordinances that were passed.All employers have the right
to hire or fire whomever they please. The ordinances only state that you cannot
fire someone soley based on their orientation. It does not state that you cannot
fire someone that is gay - you just can't fire them just based only on that. The
same way that the ordinances state that you cannot fire someone based soley on
the fact that they are Mormon, or Catholic, or Baptist, etc.Pretty
clear, don't you think?
its amazing how you can fit every single false claim into one post. I guess
practice makes perfect. As to the actual claims I think anyone that has been
around these boards or this issue long enough already know the truth and will
either ignore you or ignore the truth and nothing anyone says will really change
This is a no brainer, OBVIOUSLY gays and lesbians should get equal housing and
employment rights! lol, the younger generations are gonna be so embarrassed when
they look back and see we were even discussing this! Someone needs to tell
Utah that 1970 is over and they can safely join the rest of society now in
As a fellow gay man, this is just another issue on the 'pile' of others. I
personally have decided that if I am to live in Utah without discrimination, I
have to simply just say, "I'm straight." So far it's working quite well. I had
no problem getting a job or a house and nobody has asked question one to me. If
you are sick of the prejudice, just tell people you are straight and you'll be
amazed how fast they leave you alone.
"I think they are hell-bent on being validated in their behavior, let alone all
the ramifications and spread of disease."Well, Joyce - according to
the CDC, heterosexuals in the 18-35 age range have the highest rate of STDs in
the U.S. Your post attempts to associate the spread of disease soley with
same-sex activity, but ALL unprotected sexual activity has the potential to
The property owner who wants to rent his apartments to whom he chooses to rent -
has a valid point. Should a renter decline to rent to homosexuals - in a free
America that would be his choice - but perhaps his shame. His main concern
should be how well his property is treated, respect toward and for other tenents
and prompt payment of rent.
We should recriminalize homosexual behavior. It's acceptance and promotion has
lead to millions of deaths in the United States, and disease and misery, not to
mention the disruption to the core family.
The bible says it clearly that this is not right
'If you are sick of the prejudice, just tell people you are straight and you'll
be amazed how fast they leave you alone.' - 2:45 p.m. John, I
realize you are being funny. (or really, really hope so) I have mentioned this
before, to find out why prejudice is harmful, simply tell people you are gay for
two weeks. I guarantee you'll support equal rights after.
'We should recriminalize homosexual behavior. It's acceptance and promotion has
lead to millions of deaths in the United States, and disease and misery, not to
mention the disruption to the core family.' - 2:54 p.m. Thanks for
the laugh! I'm sure we can both agree that if any one thing was
responsible for 'millions of deaths, disease and misery' it wouldn't be
homosexuals. Otherwise we could argue of the semantics of dependancy on
electricity. Millions. Seriously. There
could be tears.
keep digging yourself further into that hole, comments like yours really need no
response the bigotry speaks for itself.
Digbads | 2:54 p.m. Feb. 3, 2010 We should recriminalize homosexual
behavior. It's acceptance and promotion has lead to millions of deaths in the
United States, and disease and misery, not to mention the disruption to the core
family.It would take a constitutional amendment at this point since
it was the Supreme Court that decided that what people do in their own bedroom
is no one elses business.Get it organized. See how many Utahns even
want to go so far as to take away other Americans freedom in such a manor. Take
your petition to church and see how many members want to force others to live by
their beliefs. (Forcing others to live righteously, where have I heard that
before.)I think you will be disappointed.
The bible says it clearly that this is not right Many say the
bible is a book of fiction.
Putting from the rough is clearly not ok.... go to another country where it is
ok if you still want to live in sin
As an employer, I would never fire someone for being gay, I would find some
other reason and there are many to choose from! I certainly don't want an
openly effeminate, gay man or a "butch" lesbian working in my business any more
than I would want a person with multiple visible piercings or poor hygiene. You
make a choice and employers will make their decision to hire you based on those
choices. I am sure their are many employers who will welcome people of
"different" lifstyles, I am not one and frankly there is nothing you can do
Homosexuals needs to drop nickname Gay. Too beautiful word
'I am sure their are many employers who will welcome people of "different"
lifstyles, I am not one and frankly there is nothing you can do about it.' -
3:46 p.m. Employer, frankly, there is. If this law passes (and with
the LDS church support, it will) and your discrimination can be proven, there
would be consequence. Regardless if it is a straight person or gay person. You compare being gay to body peircings and bad hygine. Tell me, is
being gay visible? And I don't mean your 'hunches' or any ideas, I
mean, can you factually see if someone is gay? No. As
such, you might be firing a 'butch' lesbian who is not, in fact, a lesbian. And
if that is found, you would have no defense for your discrimination as it was
based on assumption and not facts. SF, some haters need to drop the
word Christian. Too beautiful a word.
re --- Never good enough | 1:13 p.m["The bottom line is
homosexuals have all the exact same rights as everyone else when it comes to
marriage, housing, employment etc. The problem is they choose to waive these
rights when they choose homosexuality as their sexual preference."]none of them has waived any rights. not in the least. what you are admitting
is that you think people should have the RIGHT to discriminate against gays
because YOU don't approve of their lifestyle...well guess what. I
don't approve of the mormon lifestyle. I find it worse than homosexuality. It
breeds little copy-cat clones and destroys individuality. so I think you should
waive your rights when you choose mormonism.and I'm not even gay -
just an old white guy that really hates posers and bigots.and you
sir are both.
["We should recriminalize homosexual behavior. It's acceptance and promotion has
lead to millions of deaths in the United States, and disease and misery, not to
mention the disruption to the core family"]nice try, but gays do not
cause deaths, they are beaten to death. and more hetros have disease than
gays.are you sure you didn't mean for your posting name to be
"Dingbat" not digbads?
"Still, Sandstrom said he and others are fairly certain that the city and county
ordinances violate the state's "at-will" employee law. And, as a legal and
policy issue, he said no local ordinances should violate state law, no matter
what the cause."Oh yes, Heaven FORBID we actually progress in
society and change some laws. I'm sure 50 years ago some southerners fought
real hard to keep things just the same as well.
"I’ll tell you what Christ would do. He would tell people to be grateful
for their multitudes of blessings, talents, abilities, and privileges and not to
be concerned about the few privileges that do not apply to them."That is hilarious. In otherwords, he'd say, shut up and be thankful for what
you've got. Does it make you feel good to speak so sanctimoniously
- in the name of Christ - to people YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW?
Re your comments to Employer, you're right, discrimination based on sexual
orientation would have to be proven and Employer is probably much too smart to
hire someone who does not meet his business needs but if he/she did hire a gay,
they would also probably too smart to fire a person for just being gay. So it
would be impossible to prove. Particularly if Employer keeps his feelings to
him/herself which most smart people tend to do. So Employer is
right there's nothing you can do about it. And so to your comments,
are gays visible, in many cases yes, they are and that's the kind Employer seems
not to want. In case you are in any doubt, as a fellow Employer I
couldn't agree more with Employer and I won't be hiring anyone who does not fit
into my business either and I'm much too smart to ever be successfully sued for
discrimination. Again, there's nothing you can do about it unless Employer is
stupid and most successful business people are not stupid.
"The fact that many gays do not see their behavior as immoral does mean that
their bosses and landlord should be forced to agree. If gays want jobs or
apartments, they should live according to the moral behavior their bosses and
landlords expect of them –just like everyone else."So...
then... according to your logic... if some heterosexual engages in adultery, or
theft, or abuse, all immoral behaviors, THAT immorality should be overlooked by
their 'boss' and 'landlord' simply because the adulterer/thief/abuser is not GAY
- which is the Alpha and Omega of immorality in your eyes.News
Flash: We don't live in a society where bosses and landlords are the arbiters of
morality. You do your job and you get there on time. You pay your rent and
take care of the place. That's it. How about this - I think the
way YOU view life is lacking in morality - according to ME - so I guess I'd be
within my rights to kick you to the curb. All fair, because as your
boss/landlord, I call all the shots, regardless that you do your job just fine
and pay your rent on time.
@The Root for concern | 10:21 a.m. Feb. 3, 2010 "the trouble most
people have with issues like this isn't the gay thing, it's how the gay thing is
used to hide the fact that sometimes bad tenants come in all forms, but when
someone's gay, they can say, "You're discriminating!" Anyone can say
anything. Anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, can be a worthless employee
or renter. As a boss or a landlord, it is imperative you cover yourself by
documenting every problematic issue. And then - everything should turn out ok
for you if you're ever taken to court.
@Employer | 3:46 p.m. Feb. 3, 2010"You make a choice and employers
will make their decision to hire you based on those choices. I am sure their are
many employers who will welcome people of "different" lifstyles, I am not one
and frankly there is nothing you can do about it."You're right. I
wish you'd give us your name so people could be forewarned! The
crux of the issue is - you go on ahead and hire whomever you want. That's fine.
That's your right as an owner of a small business. The proposed law states you
can't FIRE some wonderful employee simply because you find out they're gay.
You sound very bitter in your response to Employer. Who knows how big his
business is or the nature of the business. Does it offend you that Employer
knows his rights and knows how to protect his business against allegations of
discrimination? Maybe he won't hire fat people, or felons or illegals or a
host of others who expect "rights" which could damage his business. You cannot
win a lawsuit unless there is incontrovertible proof that discrimination
occurred and that's very hard to get unless the Employer is very vocal that he
fired someone because they were gay. He is probably one of the people you
consider a "quiet bigot" those that don't openly oppose the gay cause or
publicly or privately comment on it at all. I think there are many more of
them than there are of those who openly support or oppose the gay cause. The
more vocal and demanding gays are, the more they turn off those who might
@@ Christy 8:50 p.m.Bitter? No. Amused? Kinda. 'Employer' said, "You make a choice and employers will make their decision to
hire you based on those choices. I am sure their are many employers who will
welcome people of "different" lifstyles, I am not one and frankly there is
nothing you can do about it."So,are we talking about the petulant
employer of the local Baskin Robins franchise? Or are we talking about the HR
guy at Costco? 'Employer' insinuated that he would not welcome people of
different 'lifestyles', so I assumed he is a small biz owner, as there are very
specific laws against discrimination at the big companies. Regardless, it doesn't offend me at all that 'employer' knows his rights. I
would hope and assume that any business owner, big or small, would know how to
protect against false allegations. I just have to say that 'fat people',
'felons' and 'illegals' do not = Gays. The proposed law remains :
You can't fire someone simply because you find out they're gay. A
quiet bigot is still a bigot. And gay rights activists aren't planning on
getting any less vocal.
Everyone on this issue needs to take a break. There are more important issues.
Getting Utahns beach to work. My impression with the community is that they
just want to have a job and a place to live. The church will be the bulwark of
promoting the traditional marriage. Utah has clauses to protect traditional
marriage. Utah is not in jeopardy of losing its moral compass. When I come home
to Utah on vacations, I am amazed how strong the traditional family is. I am
thankful to be in a church that sees the importance of the family and at the
same time recognize the decency of people.
Gays have became so strident and demanding of rights, such as marriage, which
when put to the vote of the people in this country will never pass. You have
every right to love whomever you please and I agree that you should be treated
fairly in housing and employment as long as you are a good employee and renter
and do not scream discrimination when an employer or landlord wants rid of you
because you do not perform in the workplace or fail to pay your rent. I do not oppose domestic partnerships. I do oppose adoption unless the child
is old enough to consent to the adoption by a gays and I strongly oppose
marriage for gays.
Can anyone in the gay community answer this question for me? My
question is: Why am I a bigot, a hater, a right-wing nut, out-of-touch,
homophobe in the the words of many posters, if I oppose your demands because I
have deeply held beliefs that your lifestyle is unnatural and a deteriment to
this nation and why am I not allowed my beleif system and entitled to vote
against your demands at the ballot box without being castigated?
I didn't realize that bigotry was such a problem until I stepped out of my
comfort zone and started to get to know people. It turns out that some of the
kindest and most generous people I know happen to be gay. Yet, they are told
daily on board like this that they are immoral, selfish, and responsible for the
moral decline of America. I am shocked at the cruel way people talk about some
of my friends. It's unacceptable. I know of many who have wound up being
kicked out of homes as teens because they were gay. Those unfortunate teens do
what they can to survive after becoming homeless. We need to do more to help
lift these children. Let's stop judging and start loving.
["if I oppose your demands because I have deeply held beliefs that your
lifestyle is unnatural and a deteriment to this nation and why am I not allowed
my beleif system and entitled to vote against your demands at the ballot box
without being castigated?"]when everyone can vote on your lifestyle,
then you can vote on theirs. fair enough?
'And so to your comments, are gays visible, in many cases yes...' - 6:36 p.m.
Actually, in all cases 'no.' Regardless of how 'smart' a person
thinks they are, homosexuality is not a visible thing. You know the movie
'Burno'? Yeah, he's straight. 'Again, there's nothing you can do
about it unless Employer is stupid and most successful business people are not
stupid.' Unless your business is about faith, it serves no purpose
in your business. You can have any buisness you like, faith-based, etc. That
does not give you license to discriminate. Based on many thing, including a
person's orientation. If you spend all day telling a homosexual how
they are imorral and that god does not love them, you will not do any job
effectively and you will be sued for, at least, harrasement. Bottom
line, if you care about what a person does in bed instead of the job you gave
them, your not very smart to begin with.
'Why am I a bigot, a hater, a right-wing nut, out-of-touch, homophobe in the the
words of many posters, if I oppose your demands because I have deeply held
beliefs that your lifestyle is unnatural and a deteriment to this nation and why
am I not allowed my beleif system and entitled to vote against your demands at
the ballot box without being castigated?' - 7:38 a.m. Question, why
make special session to vote on this in every state? Because state legislator
voted in favor of gay marriage? Or because state supreme courts support gay
marriage? I doubt our 'demands' for job protection from discrimination
would be against your belief system if this discrimination targeted you,
correct? Or are you saying because of your belief's it is 'ok' to
discriminate against others? That would be foolish as if I believed in
something you were against (i.e. religions were supported by the devil, etc),
where would that leave us? You can BELIEVE in anything, your ACTIONS
are held accountable.
...why am I not allowed my beleif system... - 7:38 a.m. Hate to
break it to you guy but even the LDS church supports preventing discrimination
at the workplace and in evictions. Sounds like your beleif system is
against...your beleif system.
This should put a rest to the claims the the LDS Church controls the Utah
legislature. However, it won't. Those who make such claims are hard-core
conspiracy theorists, and NOTHING ever disproves their theories, because they
were built without proff to began with.
Any thinking person can see right through the LDS Church's public relations
game!The LDS Church "supported" gay rights legislation because they
had nothing to lose and everything to gain by it! Churches are excluded by the
legislation! So this was a way to try to amend for the bad publicity they
received from the Proposition 8 fiasco while not costing them anything!Don't fool yourself, JPL, the LDS Church is as much in control of the Utah
legislature as the puppeteer master is of his toys!
To the 8:35 commentator, Firing someone based on their religion is a
violation of a long standing law.
To "Only in Utah" at 8:38, less than HALF of all states have laws that
ban sexual orientation discrimination in housing and employment. I would
vernture to guess a much higher percentage of Utah's population lives in
localities that have such laws than does the population here in Michigan.
This is not an "only in Utah" thing. Speaking of the 21st century, in 2003 a
Texas law that made homosexual sex illegal was overturned by the Supreme Court.
Wisconsin did not become the first state to include gender orientation in
employment non-discrimination laws until 1982. Washington State did not pass
its fair housing and employment act until 2006.
To the 10:49 commentor, You really do not grasp the situation of rents
in the off-campus housing south of BYU. That is exactly what happens. The
aprtment owners rent out six slots in the place, each person buys one slot. At
times the six people have never met before in their lives. How logical it
is might be debatable, but it is exactly what happens and how it is done in
To the 11:10 commentator, Since there are two openly homosexual members
of the state legislature the claims that homosexuals are excluded from
citizenship and should not bear the duties of citizens are totally false.
To Robert Watson, Do you also think a renter should be allowed to
decline renting to Mormons or Blacks? Well, doing so has been ILLEGAL since
Stopping or stalling LGBT Human Rights is like trying to stop or stall
evolution. Each side KNOWS equality will be a fact within a decade. For those
who hate LGBTs this is your LAST GASP.If believe business interests and
tourism interests will benefit cuz you try to have no controvercy for a year, it
WON'T. Your LGBT and straight youths will continue to migrate out of state, your
colleges won't attract out state youths, and LGBT and LGBT friendly businesses
will find more inclusive states to build in.
I read the post my 'Employer' and simply laughed at their stupidity for not
wanting to hire openly gay people. I'm openly gay at my work, and despite the
fact we have a non-discrimination clause in our HR policy, they not only don't
care, they embrace me. Perhaps it might have something to do with the fact I'm
one of the best salespeople we have who delivers consistent results that nets my
company a LOT of margin!How sad that 'Employer' is so blinded by
their bigorty that they would miss out on an employee such as myself who is
dedicated to their work and wants to see the company prosper and succeed!Oh wait, but since I'm gay, I'm of no use to them.I wonder
which company will fold first in the long run?
Re: no putting from the rough | 2:59 p.m. Feb. 3, 2010 The Bible
also states clearly that parents have the right to kill disobedient and errant
children.And for the benefit of those who are LDS...the Bible also
states that people with physical deformities are to be banned from entering the
This is a major embarrassment to our state. And we wonder why folks thing Utah
is a backwards state?Discrimination is wrong. The LDS
chruch agrees-- gays GET FIRED for being gay and it should be illegal. Sorry, bigots.
"And we wonder why folks thing (sic) Utah is a backwards state?"Please get serious. 35 states have voted just like Utah to ban gay marriage
and to withhold or restrict certain other rights to gays and/or gay couples.I don't agree with some of the laws that discriminate against gays when
it comes to real civil rights such as inheritance and visitation, but if you
think the LDS are the only obstacles in the way of legal gay marriage, you're
kidding yourself. LDS = 1% of the population. Anti-gay marriage = 50%+.
What's not to understand?