Vote him out.......
This is horrible idea. I'm still in High School and I believe that 12th grade is
a very important thing. Yes, some kids do graduate early (11th) grade but it
hard to do and 12th grade gives it some ground.
As an educator myself, and the mother of seven children, I think Chris Buttars
idea is right on the money! Most of Europe and Canada graduate their students at
about 16 years of age... these place do not tend to suffer the adolescent
anxieties that their American counterparts do. Many studies show that our
counterparts surpass us by the 8th grade and it is only in university that
American students far outpace their European counterparts.Let's get
real: education is highly irrelevant to many students lives, we all learn most
of what we use early on, that most serious learning takes place in
college/university when students can zoom in on what it is they wish to study
and will use. And the fact is, we used to graduate our students much earlier
than 18 at one time in our history. Are our young people better off now than
they were back then.I hope Chris Buttars sticks with his guns and
helps to reshape American education. It is sorely needed.
How does this affect admissions to college? Will students need to take more
classes freshman-junior years in order to make sure they're fulfilling
requirements for 4-year universities?
I'm in 11th grade, and though some of us are mature enough to let loose on the
world, many of us.... aren't.Anyone who has seen the difference
between a student at the beginning of their senior year and the end of their
senior year knows that a lot of growing and self-discovery goes on. The
"nothing but playing around" is pretty essential for some kids. The ones who
don't need it either work their tails off their senior year or graduate
If a student can test at a completed 12th grade level and has the ammount of
credits neccassary to qualify for graduation at the end of his/her 11th grade
year and has been excepted into college or trade school then I can agree that
they should be able to graduate.It must be based on an individual's
performance.High School students typically aren't getting above average
scores and the last thing our country needs are more young people that don't
have jobs, with too much time on their hands to get in trouble.Many of
these students are only 16 or 17, they can't join the military and most won't be
able to find a full time job, therefore they will have a year or more of getting
side tracked or doing nothing productive for themselves.There maybe a
percentage that can qualify and are very focused on their future and should be
given an oppurtunity to advance.But to mandate this to save money is
ignorant and once again politically motivated.We should have a seperation
between Government and education.Keep your claws off the kids.
The 12 year duration of public school has nothing to do with how long it takes
to educate children. Some of you seem to be under that errant impression. If the
real agenda of public school were to create a well educated, literate populace
then the results would reflect that. Alas the results are dismal. You could
compress everything that IS successfully taught in public into less than 2
years. That 10 wasted years of life that most us will never get back.
Perfect Idea !Myself and most my friends I attended High School with
had most of your credits by our senior year! 12th grade to us was just a party
on tax payer $.
This idea could work if it was started earlier on in the educational process.
Also it would depend upon where the considered demographic places and the bell
curve. Some groups of kids could pick up pace over a 4-6 year period to make up
for 12th grade. Other groups couldn't complete the same curriculum if there were
20 grades. It would be hard to handle this logistically and Buttars would never
be able to get around the teachers unions. So, It would be great
for smart kids and not so good for the kids who major in shop and gym.
Ok here's the vote....How many propose eliminating the 12th
grade??How many propose having a state run lottery like Idaho?? I VOTE FOR THE LOTTERY!!!!! Heck most of Idaho's lottery sales come from Utah
residents anyway !!!
He's a politician. What do you expect?
Yea, since Utah already spends the LEAST per student on education, let's find
more ways to deprive our kids of the education they need...... eventually all
we'll have is a generation of idiots and zombies - hmm... that explains why
Buttars jumped on this wagon.
Sure, save money by cutting the 12th grade, and 12% from higher education. If
we just keep people dumb, then we could have them WORKING menial jobs SOONER,
rather than having them waste 4 years on a fine arts degree, only to give up
their dreams and become workers. DUMB KIDS SAVE MONEY and THEY WORK BETTER.
Knowledge is power, and we can't give power to the educated. Republicans know
After reading some of these comments it really discourages me as an American to
see how our country is moving. How stupid can we be to trust a man that hates
all people that are not white and yes he's REPUBLICAN. My kids go to Private
school and that is because I don't trust the public school system and it doesn't
matter who's our Commander in Chief! We need to stop listening to the media
that gives us false information (Hannity, Limbaugh, and Beck) and start being
grown ups and AMERICANS and let our voices be heard to all crooked Politicians
(Democrats & Republicans)! We should accelerate all our students and stop
thinking that everyone deserves an "A".
This whole idea is absolutley ridiculous! What are those kids supposed to do
when they're not in school? They won't be ready for college and in this economy,
hardly any of them will get employed, and with a year taken off of potential
money saving, they won't have nearly as much to pay to get in to college. Some
kids can't even drive until 11th grade, and this would only give them a year to
get enough to get in. So basically we would have an entire year of kids sitting
at home doing a lot more "goofing off" than they would be in high school.
Furthermore, this would probably mean fine arts, athletic, and other
exctracurricular classes, which are all beneficial to becoming a well-rounded
individual, will all be the first to go. Eventually, this means our colleges and
universitites will have to either lower their standards and requirements or
increase their courses required for graduation, adding more years to the
average student's time in school. In the end, this would result in Utah being
put at a disadvantage with the rest of the country and the world.
12th grade being out is real stupid! What about the kids going out of state for
college? Their Diploma would not be as accepted.(See Mr. Butters is
right comments)And eliminating an elementary grade and making them pick up the
slack in another grade is abuse to the kids who are already struggling. It is
also abuse the parents who have to help their kids do homewhork.Summer School should be out of the option. It adds to the needs for buses.(see dumb idea's comment) Having kids be custodians is not a good
idea. If I were to work without pay I would drop out. I am a custodian and kids
do not make good cleaners. If they do not typically clean their own bedrooms
then why would we trust them to clean the schools. Alot of the kids who work
with me goof around, set fires to the chemicals, and play to freely with their
issued putty knives or razor blades. Also, student custodians tend
to be of the wrong crwod. One of five are druggys.
I know how to fix this whole thing! Let's just write a law that says that our
politicians can only make as much as our teachers and the retirement plans must
match as well, and then there would be plenty of money for education. We
wouldn't have to make any cuts at all!
It is unfortunate that we elect people like this. I understand a lot of people
are done early before senior year but this does not apply to every child. For
example children with learning disabilities, students looking for sports
scholarships, children taking concurrent enrollment through their high school at
a community college and students still maturing mentally. Obviously Buttars has
not thought of all these factors. And to cut bus transportation for students is
just ridiculous. I personally took the bus for 2 out of my 3 years at my High
School. It puts less cars on the roads and is actually better for the
environment. Please do us a favor Buttars and resign.
I really would like to see us turn education over to the private sector. In
doing that we will see the cost decrease and the value increase. Wait... didn't
we have a bill passed into law that would allow for that ... vouchers... and
didn't it get repealed? Now who's really the idiots? Perhaps those of you who
listened to the UEA.
I am really surprised (or perhaps not) at how closed minded everyone seems to be
on this topic. I was not born and raised in Utah, so I don't honestly know how
it's always been. I grew up in the east where it was quite simple to graduate
in the 11th grade. Keep in mind that didn't mean that we took fewer courses, it
meant that if we chose to graduate early and start college sooner then we needed
to double up on English, etc. It meant that we would give up some of the
"electives" for meatier courses which meant college one year earlier. Understand
that early out isn't for everyone, but if you could make it happen for at least
25% of the students wouldn't we see some savings? I believe it's a good starting
point for savings.
Many past studies have shown that students can learn in fewer years what it now
takes for them to learn in 12. BUT that depends entirely on the existing system
being revamped and streamlined. Buttars may have a point but I wouldn't want it
implemented in the poor system now existing.
Representative Gibson just lost my vote because of his seeming support for this
This explains why the Facebook group "Chris Buttars is a senile old bigot who is
an utter embarrassment to Utah" has over 4,700 members!
Let's re-vote and send Buttars home. We'd save a lot of media time and wasted
breath in the Utah Legislature without him there. I can't believe he actually
thinks this way. Who elected him? Which district? Aaaah!Scary, to
say the least. If we had not cut taxes the last several years we'd have
hundreds of millions in surplus (fact). Read Charles Trentelman's (sp?) article
in the Standard Examiner about two weeks ago.
Keep 12th grade. Eliminate Buttars.
What were the odds Buttars would like less educated Utah voters?Seriously West Jordan doesn't he embarrass you....yet?
Buttars is just trying to get even for being called Names in School. (I would
have either destroyed him or been his biggest defender, depending), Looking
somewhat like he does now, only with some hair and not bing able to get a
date.We can't help it if his Teenaged Avatar said No.We
need 12th grade..
This Man has finally Lost what little was left of his mind.We are
having problems with Bus Costs in Hawaii along with having the fewest School
Days in the Nation.They want to extend the Min distance for pick up,
so almost no one would get a Bus. "The Bus" Company has said they can't handle
the extra passenger load.Not every Student is coasting in the 12th
Grade. 12th Grade is where the Scholarships are Decided, both Sports and
Academic. 12th Grade is vital for the Socialization Process, The Socialization
Process is Vital for life.Sometimes the kids are already doing
School and Jobs, saving for College or Missions or just supporting that Car.Some Kids have Kids already. (Notice I did not mention gender here,
because for every Mother there is a Father and Child Support Needs to Come
1st).Doing away with 12th Grade is Not A Good Idea.
If we want to save tax payer dollars we should cut some of the police forces who
don't do anything. Some are awesome, like in Lehi, where I live, crime rates are
low, because teh police are out there working. SANDY however, my
neice had her car robbed, the police wouldn't do anything at all, my niece had
to catch the girl herself. The girl had all kinds of stolen goods in her car and
we paid to get her off. The police there just sit on 90th and blast
through red lights at 70 to catch people who can't afford to register, or to
traumatize little old ladies for going 7 over on the hill, and slapping them
with additional crimes for not pulling over immediately because it was at the
dangerous onramp to I-15. It's sad that our tax dollars are
going to this instead of catching true criminals.
I live in your district and if you don't respond to your constituents, I and my
other active LDS ward meembers will be coming for you. You are right not to
worry about gay rage, but that is the least of your problems.
Good Idea - Cheryl Richardson wants to eliminate some of the useless
administrative positions in Utah education. Why do we have both state and
district boards of education? What is it all those counselors are being paid to
do? Every counselor I've had experience with just wasted my time and gave me bad
advice that I was, fortunately, informed enough to ignore. What exactly do the
district offices do that can't be handled at a state level? That's where the
cuts should be in education.Bad Idea - Buttars wants to eliminate
the 12th grade altogether. The state budget might save some money, but that
would put a lot of teachers (you know, the people in education that actually do
something) out of the job. 12th grade is not a waste of time for everyone and
the people who don't like it can to concurrent enrollment in college. I
actually passed three AP tests in 12th grade and learned an incredible amount
that prepared me for college. This would really also really hurt any Utah
athlete's chances of making a college team without another year of preparation
and maturing in highschool.
This would only make 11th grade the year kids decide to slack off.
What a great idea! It's not like Americans aren't already behind almost all
other developed countries in terms of public school education quality...so
cutting a year out of education will definitely help out!
My senior year made all the difference for me. I learned more academic
information that year than all my others. I also developed the social skills I
needed in order to thrive in the real world.To whoever suggested
cutting athletics: from my experience there wasn't much money that was taken
from school funds if any at all. As athletes, we raised money on our own
through our own efforts. I imagine that this is the case in most schools. I
learned a lot of discipline playing football and running track. These things
enrich lives and that's really the goal.Perhaps the solution is
raising taxes? Not the first choice for anyone, but it might be time to bite
that bullet and pay for what should be our biggest priority as citizens.
I learned more in twelve grade than I did any other year, on the contrary I
messed around until middle of 11th grade and finally I started getting serious
my senior year. I believe it was my most important year in high school, and I
learned so much. Maybe instead of building a soccer arena in place of adding to
the funds of school education we wouldn't be in such a financial problem.
Buttars is the kind of guy that would rather sacrifice our children's education,
which ultimately effects their future, our future, instead of giving up private
jets, or other funds the senate uses for personal pleasure.
Is he crazy? If anything we have TOO MUCH administration in Education . . . half
the people don't even know what their job is and twiddle their thumbs all day or
play golf . . . get rid of them first! Many schools succeed with limited funding
. . . learn what they do! The fact that this is cited as a good idea by some
makes me nervous! If anything we need more education!!!
Headline should read: "12th graders propose cutting Buttars."
My son, after carefully considering his options decided to go on to college and
skip his senior year. He graduated from an excellent univeristy with a 4.0
g.p.a. and has since earned his MA from another excellent university. It was
the best thing for him. However, if I had tried the same thing it would have
been a disaster. I needed the senior year go grow up some more.I
suggest that students who have the motivation and ability be allowed
(encouraged) to skip their senior year and go on to college. After they have
successfully completed 30 credits at an accredited univeristy, they should then
be awarded a high school diploma. This seems like a good option for everyone.
It will save dollars, it won't hold anyone back and will help those who need the
extra time to mature.
My son debated about whether to complete his senior year or go on to college (he
had already been accepted through a summer school program). It was his decision
and I did not try to influence him in any way. He talked to counselors and
considered his options carefully and decided to skip his senior year saying to
me: "If I stay in high school, I will waste a year." He went on, graduating
from an excellent university with a 4.0 gpa and has completed his masters at
another excellent university. He was well prepared to do this. But the same
wouldn't have been true for me. I needed that senior year to grow up some more.
I suggest that students who have the maturity and ability be
allowed to go on to college and be awarded a high school diploma after they
successfully finish 30 semester hours at an accredited university. This will
allow ambitious students to move on while giving those that need it an extra
year. It will save $ and be best for all involved.
Lets cut kindergarten, all they're doing is finger painting, making things out
of macaroni and taking recess every couple of hours. Talk about non productive.
Buttars is out of his mind.Why didn't Deseret News cover the
controversy between Buttars and Cowan over his interview about gays?Buttars called the gay community "probably the greatest threat to America",
and he called gays "the meanest buggers" and called gay families "combinations
of abominations".Does that sound like a sane man?
Buttars is out of touch with reality. While there will always be those seniors
who glide by doing as little as possible they are the exception and not the
rule. With the advent of concurrent enrolement Utah's public schools partnered
with its public colleges and universities off high school juniors and seniors a
head start on their college career. Many students in our school district
actually graduate with their associate degrees at the same time the graduate
from high school. So Mr. Buttars whose waisting their senior year? Not our
students maybe our state reps are waisting their senior years pushing bad ideas
because they're out of touch with reality.
I've been grading papers written by college freshman. Trust me, these kids need
If students want to graduate early they have that option as long as they
complete all the requirements. Very few are actually able to do so and need at
least part of there senior year to do so, especially here in Utah with the idea
of released time seminary. To get rid of the 12th grade all together causes
other problems as well. What about accreditation? If we get rid of our 12th
grade our entire state would lose accreditation and therefore none of the
diploma's acquired in the state of Utah would be useless when trying to get into
college. And if that happens there goes our educated workforce that everybody
claims is the reason businesses come here. And that just starts a domino effect
that could kill our state. Do we really want to risk that?
I remember a few years ago these same forces of lower taxes at all costs, were
trying to get parents to pay for all classes that were not core classes such as
english and math.The vote missed passing in legeslative committee by
1 vote. The law would have made parents pay the full costs of their kids taking
band or art or anything like that.Its good it didn't pass or only
children of the well heeled would have been able to get the full highschool
experience.Unless we as people want to not pass along less to our
children than was given to us, we need to fight. There are several things we can
call for.Not all businesses are poor during this recessioin. Mining
is undergoing a boom, as mineral prices are quite high right now. We could
increase our mineral severance tax. It only makes sense not to gut education and
not to increase taxes on businesses that are hurting.Its up to us
people, what kind of world do you want to pass along to your kids. You need to
be careful how you vote, you need to fight.
West Jordan,Wake up! Quit inflicting this man on all of us. We all
suffer from his actions. If you want to do things, go ahead. Just don't mix the
rest of us up in your mess. This is soooo tiresome; what more do you need to see
what kind of man he is? I know, why don't you create a state and he
can be your king? Leave the rest of us alone.
Whaaaat??Now the high achievers and the low achievers would be
punished because Buttars and his cronies cannot come up with real budget
solutions.The mediocre students, with no prospect of work or college
need no 12th grade and will thank rep Buttars for more leisure time. Those late bloomers who are finally waking up to the need to get enough
credits to graduate, and those high achievers who need to qualify for a quality,
advanced degree would be punished by short-sighted proposals like this."...sorry that your application to Harvard/MIT/Stanford/etc cannot be accepted
because you apparently missed your final year of high school"."...sorry that we cannot give you an athletic scholarship since you did not
have enough high school credits""...sorry that foolish state
legislators did not have enough foresight to provide you even the minimum
education to function in the global economy"
This is nonsense. What about athletics - should we just cancel HS athletics? If
you cancel HS athletics then you might as well cancel college athletics too
because HS is the recruiting base for colleges. Also, there is no way an 11th
grader is ready for college athletics - not physically or mentally. Actually,
most 11th graders are not ready academically or mentally for the rigors of
college. This might all sound good on paper but it doesn't quite fit reality.
Buttars is doing his psychology backwards. Yes, 12th grade is the time when
students are almost done with secondary education, but that doesn't mean that
they are going to slack off. In most cases, it means that the students are going
to work harder than ever, since this is the last opportunity for things to go
wrong.In short, Buttars' suggestion could be likened unto saying
that people running a race are likely to slow down and stroll along once they
get close to the finish line. Do they? No! They sprint!
type to waste their last year of school, will if we get rid of 12th grade waste
the 11th grade instead.Does Mr. Buttars think the 12th grade is
being wasted because the word 12 starts with a t, or because there is a 1 and a
2 in 12?I know I didn't waste my 12th grade experience. Nor did most
students of whom I was aware. I know there were some students that wasted every
grade, but that is a differnt topic.
Did Buttars complete the 12th grade? Sometimes I wonder...
How will Utah attract coveted business to the state when business leader's kids
won't be able to have a normal educational experience?Why should I
have to appeal to what experience business leaders and their families will
have?Don't we care enough about our own kids to keep 12th grade for
them?Here is an idea, if West Jordan re-elects Mr. Buttars, lets
have a pilot project where the residents of West Jordan don't get 12th grade.
See how this works for them.
If we would put the kids to work in factories and mines and farms, and do away
with school altogether, we could save even more money.12 times as
much as just doing away with 12th grade.
There are plenty of comments here that beg you not to vote for Buddars
anymore.I disagree,He makes the legislative sessions
re re RE: There is money enough | 10:03 a.m. Feb. 2, 2010 _________________________Stalin and Marx would be proud?Does that mean the idea is wrong to tax those businesses and people that are
thriving?When one considers the alternative, dumbing down education,
and lessening our future productivity, or raising taxes on businesses or people
that are struggling this idea sounds pretty darn good.Any way, next
recession, perhaps it will be a different set of companies that will be doing
well, so it really won't be unfair, everyone will get their turn.
Make all the parents of more than 2 children pay their fair share of taxes. No
more tax credits for having a whole brood of children! Two things would happen;
1) fewer children burdening the system and 2) increased revenue.If you
can't afford 7 children Cheryl, don't have 7 children.
This crazy idea is one example why there is an army of people who grew up in
Utah, moved away for graduate school and won't be coming back. I should know
because I'm one of them. I will live in states and communities where they take
education seriously. Good luck recruiting businesses and
high-performing individuals to the state.
represent me when he makes these totally asinine proposals - not because I am as
clueless as he appears to be, but because there are enough stupid people in West
and South Jordan to keep re-electing him. There are times when I think they do
it just to put some life into an otherwise boring legislature. Without Chris
Buttars, we would never know about anything that goes on in the back rooms of
the capitol building. With him, we always know that one of the things the
republicans are meeting in caucus to try to figure out is how to put an
acceptable spin on Buttars' latest attempt to put his foot squarely between his
upper and lower 4th year molars.
Let's just pay the kids $5,000 each if they have the requirements met by 11th
grade.Maybe slip a couple thousand in tax breaks to the parents as
well.Cheaper than educating them, right?
If that were to happen you could say goodbye to any type of scholarship for Utah
students.Who keeps electing this guy?
The legislators, with whatever wisdom they have, keep adding to the credit
requirements needed for graduation. Very recently they added an additional
required year of math and another of science. Before that, the financial
literacy course. Why don't they require the students to take the same courses
for graduation as was required 10 years ago? Then Strongly encourage students
to graduate at the end of their Junior year. This would allow those students to
move on who believe their Senior year is a waste, and allow those students who
are completing classes which are important to them (whether it be to play on a
sports team, perform in a musical group, or to complete extra college admissions
requirements) to complete their Senior year. Electives are very important
classes to many students, and to me as a parent. For many students this is
where they learn their life skills. Cut down on the required classes, and let
the students and parents determine whether their Senior year is important or
In today's economic turn down and high unemployment rates where are these
unskilled 16-17 year old students going to find jobs if they can't be in school.
What problems could thousands of unemployed teenagers get into? During the 12th
grade thousands of students receive college credit during concurrent enrollment
saving Utah families thousands of dollars in tuition for college credit. The
proposal to cut the 12th grade presents a myriad of unintended negative
consequences all costing the state and tax payers more money in the long run.
Anyone who had not wasted his time in the 12th grade would know this.
and this is comming from the same guy who can't recognize a BYU shirt! or maybe
it was B uttars Y ou U gly!! with this suggestion!
I would only be for this if the children could immediately go off to their
missions for the Church immediately afterward. Otherwise it would be a serious
in SW corner of SL Valley keep voting for this guy? I would be ashamed if I
were you. This guy has said more stupid things, racial and otherwise, than
anyone in the State in my lifetime. A good idea would be if Butter's has "a
good idea" run fast the other way as it is going to hurt the State publicity
wise or economically. This guy isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Early in my teaching career as an English teacher-coach, I suggested to the
school district that it might be wise to look at alternate diplomas for our
students: an academic-college prep track, a vocational track, and a general
track for those who just went through the motions. This was voted down and now
as we look back on it, it may have been a thought-before-its-time idea. As has
been stated by others, if we drop the 12th grade, requirements will have to be
changed at our universities and other out-of-state schools. But again, I propose
that the state needs to look at a three or four-tiered diploma. I also remember
with caution one of our students who thought baseball was the only thing
important in life and in school, and so he kept his grades up and played through
his senior year when a science teacher sparked his interest. Today he has a PhD
from LSU and continues to teach in Alabama after leaving Utah.
Buttars is way off. We need to stop ALL public education. Public education (even
charter schools) are a waste of tax dollars. They teach very little. How can
they teach with classes overflowing into hallways. Let's just end the debate and
stop funding all public education. If parents want their kids to get an
education then homeschool them or pay for them to go to a private school. Stop
putting our tax dollars into a failed system.
This man needs help!!
This is not a one-size-fits-all solution, Mr. Buttars. It may be a good option
for the top students who have completed distance ed / concurrent enrollment
courses and are mature enough and ready to move on, but some students are still
trying to fit in required classes so they can get their high school diploma,
right up to the final quarter of their senior year. If anything, establishing
and maintaining distance ed and the required technology on the high school
campus to make it accessible to all qualified 12-graders is a better option, but
don't eliminate the entire Senior Year. I myself was hardly prepared for my
freshman year of college, & could have used directed college preparation within
the safe and familiar environment of a high school. (I have to ask, was Mr.
Buttars a social outcast his senior year? Because that year for me was so
I wonder if all this is related to butters not able to get a date to his high
school sr prom.
He will say anything without the slightest concern that he is ofending or saying
something that is follish. It's almost like he is drunk or on some kind of
medication. People that are drunk or medicated say anything without thinking.
Look at all the rude stuff Rush says on TV and we all know he was taking about
40 to 50 pain pills a day. So what is Buttars on? Postam? Parrow?
I love my box please don't tell me my box isn't good. all the best ideas are in
my box. I once heard an idea that came from outside my box and it was bad so I
figure all ideas out there are bad ones. I'm ecstatic that the Utah
lawmakers are willing to look outside the box it is what progressive means. Not
the progressive like "liberal" but as in making progress. Here is a
thought how about schooling to some level of competency and not to an amount of
years. A student could learn on the tax dollars what they wanted until the age
of 18 then they would need to pay for each course they wanted. Student are also
welcome to begin as early as 3 but the state doesn't pick up the tab until they
are 5. Adults are welcome to attend as paying students. There see that took me 3
minutes to offer a solution. it's not perfect and somebody might want to make it
is actually a very good one, but it may be so avante garde that no one will give
it a chance. My only concern when I heard about it was how will students
achieve the class hours and credits that they need to graduate? It would be
difficult to pack it all into more classes and it wouldn't make sense to cut the
senior year and then add summer classes or something similar to make up for it.
But, hey, at least it is an idea. He's not just whining and not coming forth
bad idea | 9:12 p.m. Feb. 1, 2010 Out-side of Utah - most LDS kids
have to get up and go the LDS Chapel and take Seminary before high-school
Back in the 1800s kids were mature enough to marry at 16 and raise families. Now
we say that they are not mature for anything except play video games. When I
came to BYU (from Russia) it was a shock to me to read through the Deseret
Towers rules and discover that pillow fights were not allowed. I thought kids
outgrew pillow fights around the age of 12. If we start giving them real
responsibilities early they will mature. Regarding busing. In Kenya kids
as young as 12 years old run 6 miles to school and then 6 miles back. We have a
cow when somebody suggests a 17 year old could possibly walk a mile or two all
meanwhile we are faced with the evidence that our youth are getting obese. School bus is also bad for the environment. Just try running behind one. I
speed up to sub-5:00 pace when I see this environmental monster to run away in
time and avoid having to smell it.
Despite what we may believe to be true, by the fifth grade it is
already evident who will succeed in university and who will be a 'blue-collar'
worker. There is a body of evidence that confirms this. A few
minutes on the ERIC database will reveal many reputable peer-reviewed studies
that show that early academic performance is the best indicator of future
academic performance. There may be anecdotal exceptions to this; the proverbial
late bloomer, but statistically they are insignificant. What does
this have to do with the current debate? The twelfth grade is useful to those
who will go to university and probably a waste of time for the others.We should mandate twelve years of formal education but track students into
collegiate prepatory and trade tracks from late middle school age on. That way,
each group will get the appropriate instruction and each will be better prepared
for the workforce. Trade workers should leave school with a license
or marketable skill. As it stands now, few American high school
graduates have the necessary skills for either college or the trades.
PLEASE West Jordan residents don't vote for this guy ever again. He is the
laughing stock on the "hill". Who is voting for this guy anyway? Next time he is
up for re-election, there should be a record number of voters show up to get
this joker out!!
Small number - what source are you looking at? I would suspect that most
complete the vast majority early with the exception of those that are on the
edge of not graduating at all, or that don't.
as a parent of a byu freshman and a sophomore in high school i have a much
different opinion of some the people who have posted here. my daughter (byu)
was in the music program. she played a variety of instruments and excelled
academically. why? she is driven but also because she was focused because of
her music. my son plays baseball. he works very hard and practices for hours
every day. academically he excells, as well. the programs available at high
schools are valuable from academics to sports. they keep these kids focused,
hard working, and involved in worth while activities. the idea of cutting 12th
grade is rediculous. i wonder if he wanted to make the news rather than show a
serious point. if buttars wants to get serious i am sure there is plenty of
waste to find. much of the waste is usually found in administrative costs.
maybe he should start there. why should our students suffer because of his
waste? btw, baseball tourneyment trips and marching band competions are funded
by the parents, not the state.
And I think this is a proposal worth looking at closely. There is a lot of
truth to what Mr. Buttars is saying.
'Chris doesn't speak for the Republican Party who in recent years have seen the
wisdom of simply ignoring him.' - 10:08 a.m. I disagree. The
republican party continues to work to keep buttars in office as a spokesperson
for the radical ideas that many wish they COULD present, but would rather get
Isn't America last to know the Metric system? Oh, wait, we don't.
Why would people post that teachers should not have a say in education
issues?Don't we want doctors to have a say in health care issues?Don't we want economists to have a say on the economy?Don't we want
soldiers to have a say in wars?This is the dumbest thing I have ever
heard. Teachers should be listened to more than anyone when it involves an
education issue. Those of you who have no respect for teaching are
ignorant.My brother is a teacher. He has more schooling than I do for my
job- mechanical engineer. He got a Bachelor's degree and then had to do an
additional 1 1/2 years to get his teaching certificate. He has since gone back
and gotten a Masters degree in education also. He is more qualified to talk
about education issues than I am with issues in my field.Utah- stop
telling teachers to shut up when it comes to education. Listen to them since
they are the ones trained in that field and actually work in that field.
Chris Buttars has a history of making such statements. He was elected, he has
the right, and we have the right to concentrate on more serious proposals. Chris
doesn't speak for the Republican Party who in recent years have seen the wisdom
of simply ignoring him. We should follow suit.Let's move on.
Correction: She is entering as a first semester sophomore... Oops, looked like I
didn't proofread soon enough.
"Its not hard times in all of Utahs economy, just parts. Good tax policy would
place the burden on those parts able to bear it."Marx, Stalin, and
all great communists would be proud - they espoused the idea of taking more from
the wealthy and less from the poor so that all were forced to be equal. After
all, government always can determine what to do with your money, your future,
and your soul better than you.
Again I voice my opinion on something I know nothing about but feel strongly
about. I am a retired high school teacher and coach and parent of six of my own
and six foster students. My oldest was a sterling scholar in English; my number
two entered USU with numerous AP credits and is now a practicing medical doctor.
So it goes for each of our children and foster children. All of them played
sports, performed in the school musicals, excelled in journalism, worked in the
summers and prepared for college. Four of the 12 have teaching degrees and all
are gainfully employed. We didn't have any of them drive to high school, and
they did it on their own, including being without a car at college. Now I have a
grand daughter graduating from 12th grade with enough college credits to enter
university as a first semester freshman. They needed 12th grade to accomplish
all that they have achieved. Yes, the system needs tweeking, but not
in the way that Buttars suggests. BTW: too many of you who write here do not
proofread or else you needed a 12th grade education.
I have one senior and on junior who is planning his senior year. Both do indeed
have little to do during their senior year in order to qualify for graduation.
Both are taking college level classes their senior years and will have
concurrent enrollment...so what Buttars is sharing does have some merit. I
doubt it is an end but a beginning of a conversation that is due.And
for those that need their last year to get everything done to graduate...there
is the option to repeat a grade if progress is not sufficient, not just at the
Is he serious? With the exception of a small number of students who graduate
early or attain their associates degrees when they graduate, the MAJORITY of
students are unable to fulfill the requirements necessary for acceptance into
reputable colleges and universities in three years. Additionally, very few are
mature enough to move on and deal with the rigors and demands of university
life. I know: I've raised five children AND teach on the university level.Not one of my children had a throw-away senior year; they had full schedules
and worked incredibly hard.Mr. Buttars, I've never known a
representative as out-of-touch with reality as you are. I don't trust a single
one of your "facts" and can refute every one.Do you even understand
the true purpose of education?? That worthwhile things require sacrifice??
Someone actually reading educational research, maybe there is hope. Schools
could be transformed if applied across the board. Graduation requirements
fulfilled by the end of 11th grade, and start school when children are ready to
So, senior year is a waste of time so we should get rid of it instead of working
to improve it? Gee, what a great idea. By the same token, Buttars is a waste
of time, so maybe we could get rid of him . . .
its ironic that the same people claiming we do not have money to fund the 12th
grade and busing are busy pushing through another patch of message bills that
they admit will not stand up in court but they are going to pass anyway an
defend in court at great expense that could be going to oh I don’t know
Oh yes, Mr. Buttars, and we all know money means so much more than education and
knowledge. Are you for real?? You are so unbelievably clownish that you've
become a caricature of yourself.I am an intelligent, educated,
registered Republican, and my last straw just broke. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE
resign and stop the damage you cause at every turn. You are a one-man train
wreck. The shame and humiliation you inflict on those with whom you associate
and are affiliated is profound. For the good of the the State of Utah, of the
Republican party which you supposedly represent, and for the sake of EDUCATION,
please find a different avenue for your insatiable need for power and attention.
Yea, let's cut a whole grade from the students who already lag behind everyone
else in the U.S. with the exception of Mississippi.No wonder Utahns
are so dumb.
Buttars is just trying to put himself on an even playing field, I.e., only an
11th grade education. If he didn't need to finish he school, then no one does.
... or has Sen. Buttars just revealed something about his own HS career?Maybe it's time to educate Buttars as to what education is really all
about? What a GREAT idea: Let's try to fix a massive budget problem and economic
crisis by NOT TEACHING OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ANYTHING AND DRIVING DOWN THE VALUE OF
EDUCATION IN THIS STATE.Someone remind me again: Did Buttars ever go
to college--assuming he knows what college is? Did he actually finish high
school? He clearly missed something in his own education.Pathetic,
Sen. Buttars. Truly pathetic.
I remember going to school, the last day of school was spent, signing year
books, and no assignments were due.If we want to get rid of days
where no school work is done, get rid of the last school day of the year. If
doing that means the next day kids don't work, then get rid of that day too.Hey guess what, pretty soon there will be no school days left and we as
a state don't have to pay for school at all.Seriously though, I know
there are plenty of kids who do take their senior year seriously. Also there
are plenty of kids who don't take school seriously period.Before we
do dumb ideas such as this (eliminating 12th grade) why not consider allowing
foreign nuclear waste in the state? There is no difference between this waste
and waste from other states, except that Utah stands to make a lot more money by
A student coming out of high school should be prepared for either college or a
good job. Students who want to go to college or a trade school need a rigorous
high school prep. Those who are suited or prefer a job that doesn't require
college should have the communication, math and social skills to obtain it at
graduation. Some kids may not realize what they want until junior year. They
should have the opportunity to develop from that point. If kids are messing
about in senior year, they ARE lazy, and their parents' expectations may be
partially to blame. But the curriculum may be, as well. Silly classes should not
be offered to seniors. If someone wants to push hard and graduate early, after
11th grade, it is possible, but not for everyone. Kids who can handle that are
NOT MANY. Cutting busing in this largely rural state and economy is definitely
not an option.Butters and his good buddy Howard Stephenson are both
embarrassments to most of the good people of Utah. It's terrifying that they
keep getting re-elected.
I think this proves that Buttars is far more interested in grabbing headlines
than effective leadership. How much free press will he get for this inane idea,
while realistic legislation, and the media attention it deserves, will be buried
by this fanatic? This does all go to prove one thing: Buttars was educated in
Utah and spent entirely too much time in seminary classes while everyone else
was gettin' learned.
Pull your head out! Seriously. Turn High School into a techincal school and
focus kids into where they excel. don't force stuff onto them they or struggle
Buttars is at least trying to address the problem. I think there are better
options. There is amazing waste of supplies and expense for upkeep in schools.
Students would be served better to learn to use materials carefully and fewer of
them. Many administrators are a total waste of money; get rid of them and let
them find menial jobs for which they are qualified. As someone else suggested,
students should do more cleaning and upkeep. I taught fifth grade for a dozen
years, and 80 per cent of the cleaning done in my room was done by students. I
did about 10 per cent and the other was done by a paid cleaning person. The only
problem I ever had was when a student sprayed all the stacks of papers on my
desk with cleaning fluid, and that only resulted in a lot of laughs. There are
probably a hundred ways to make schools more economically efficient.
I think Buttars has a point...but he just missed it. His point about thinking
out of the box is EXCELLENT. How about we toss out funding sports programs and
allow the kids and parents to cover those costs, including the cost of buses for
those trips. Most kids are playing to "get to the big time" anyway. Parents
should foot the bill and not my tax dollars. Not all kids play either. Why
should my tax dollars be used for sports while you are cutting programs/courses
that could be beneficial to ALL students.
dude if they cut the 12th grade than 11th is going to be the new 12th. Kids will
do the same thing, but won't be ready to go into the real world that 1 year
makes a huge difference in maturity, and helps kids grow into college students
Utah will not be able to attract or keep quality businesses, except those
businesses that have not choice, if it is known as a state where kids can't even
go to the 12th grade.Educational quality and opportunity is one of
the important factors businesses consider in deciding to move to a state or to
stay there.They won't come because of our good weather, we have to
make educational excellence the drawing point.
To Dan at 7:48 - Are you for real? This has nothing to do with the Brethren or
the LDS church. And, YES, I am LDS. So, your argument that dropping senior
year would cause an upset for seminary is very narrow minded. I don't think
that we should drop senior year, but seminary should not come into the equation.
Teach your kids the gospel at home - after all it is your responsibility. As to "teacher" at 7:55, believe it or not there are districts paying
teachers a days pay for being a mentor. I am sure there are many districts that
do pay mentor teachers.
Utah is competing with other states for businesses to locate here. They are
looking for a well-educated work force. Eliminating 12th grade would make
economic development much more difficult, I believe.
I suspect cutting the 12th grade would do wonders for federal funding activities
across a host of areas (in other words we would loose those funds)- but hey we
do not need that money anyways since Utah is already a recipient state- we
should strive to be a donor state when it comes to the distribution of federal
funds- as it stands right now we are a welfare state in terms of federal funds
and we in Utah would never want to be that- we should be giving more than we
receive and this idea will help make that a reality- I am so excited we will
finally get off the federal gravy train and donate more than we get back- I
We should add a 13th grade. Chris Buttars has his GED and you know what? You
don't even need a high school degree to get your GED.
did it ever occur to Sen. Buttars that lowering or eliminating legislative pay
also will help to save money?Education is the last place to cut, it
is the best investment for the future.There are kids who waste time,
in every grade, not only 12th.By this logic, get rid of all the
Why have public schools at all?
I hope the people agreeing with this scheme were being sarcastic. Our kids need
MORE education, not less. If Utah cuts a year of secondary education, we will
see:1. The end of released-time seminary.2. The end of high
school athletics.3. The end of every quality arts and music program at the
high school level. 4. The end of many quality vocational programs. 5. The end of a quality work force in Utah. 6. The end of companies
relocating to Utah.7. The beginning of families leaving the state to
educate their children elsewhere.8. The beginning of the most severe
economic decline in the state's history.9. The beginning of class and race
riots in our cities.10. An increase in drug abuse and teen pregnancy.Yes, Senator Buttars, we have things to fear. And if this is the
epitome of the creativity of the Republican party during a fiscal crisis, this
state is doomed.
Math books in the primary and secondary schools are mostly of low quality.The state should ask for volunteers, retired professors, Utah
professionals to write quality text books, that Utah would have the rights too,
then not so much money would have to be spent on text books. Also the quality
of the texts would be higher and education would be better.
All I see in this forum are people bashing Buttars' person, not his idea. I
think it's mostly just a bunch of scared government employees (teachers). 12th
grade was a huge waste for me, all of my friends, and most importantly, the
Sure, I slacked my senior year of high school. That's why I took AP English, AP
Chemistry, Calculus, AP Sociology, Psychology, and Economics. I swam for our
school team, played water polo, sang in our A'cappella choir, wrote for our
school's literary magazine, and directed a few school plays. I was lazy, lazy,
lazy my senior year.
Really? You didn't see my post as sarcasm? I was applying the same logic to
education that the right wing wackos use for everything else. What is
frightening is that anyone would take my post as serious!I think
eighteen is too young for university for most people and think public education
should continue for a thirteenth year for college bound kids.We
should provide better education in the trades for those not continuing through
to university.More education has never hurt ANYONE.The
I have been a mentor several times and have never been paid. what district do
you work for. i do agree with the d.o. overload, and even the busing. I know
most kids do very well the senior year, i also doubt the guy with the associates
degree by the end of his jr. year. streatching it a bit.
Why not cut 11th grade too? then we can save twice as much.
this is your fault. You keep voting this Einstein into office. Lets see,
someday when a Utah kid wants to be admitted to Stanford, Harvard, MIT, a
service academy, or even Salt Lake Community College, the admissions official
will determine that only 11 years of prep school was completed. Admission
Denied. My kid is a senior in high school this year and has 3 Advanced
Placement, 1 music, and 2 other college prep type classes. Hardly a waste of
time. So if Butters, and his co-conspirators in the legislature want to cut
12th grade let them start at West Jordan and Copper Hills High Schools (I assume
Butter's district). And lets wait for the next election. If anything beef up
12th grade requirements. Lets expect more from our kids rather than less. Note
to Butters, this is how leadership is demonstrated.
Depressed because I just lost a little grip on reality as I previously knew it.
Agreeing with this numb-skull (Buttars) pains me deeply. Never-the-less, when he
comes up with a novel idea that is actually good I've got to give him credit.Look, I've been a Buttars basher like most, but think outside the box
people. Our public education system is lacking at best. For those of us who have
experienced senior year and sent our own kids through the same, be honest with
yourselves. You have to admit that senior year in HS is pretty much a waste of
time for the students and teachers as well as a waste of tax payer money.Coming up with a good idea at this stage of his career, DANG YOU
Buttars! What are you doing to us?
How about we get rid of one day of the week, if it was a weekday we could save
ourselves 20% because the kids would only need to go to school four days a week
instead of five. I would suggest getting rid of Tuesdays as Mondays will always
be what they are, Wednesday is hump day, Thursday is the day before Friday and
well Friday is Friday. This would match perfectly with the state's
four day work week. Then the Senate would only be in session for four days of
the week and Buttar's comments and thoughts shared publicly would be reduced by
the same 20% - hallelujah.My biggest concern about dropping the 12th
grade is can the LDS church drop their seminary scripture curriculum to three
years or would would they just drop one of the canonized text's - humm which one
would it be? Has Buttar's discussed this with the Brethren?
Here are some smart ones.Not all Utahs or Utah businesses are
hurting financially, roll back the flat income tax, and I also like the idea of
taxing minerals being taken out of Utah ground, but there is more we can do.Teach kids responsiblity by having them be the custodians of the
schools. Foreign schools do it (Taiwan that I know of) and we can too. This
will make the kids less likely to vandalize and help to teach them
But instead of eliminating 12th grade, we should eliminte 3rd grade instead.Most of what is learned in 3rd grade can be picked up by accelerating
2nd grade, and going to summer school before 4th grade.What is
learned in 3rd grade generally isn't as important as what is learned in 12th
grade anyway :)
Education is an obivious target rich area because of the amount of money
consumed however, cutting 12th grade is a non-starter. Look deeper and see where
efficiencies can be made in education such as spending on extra curricular
activities (non-education), administration at District levels, salarys of
administrators, etc. Not the 12th grade!
It has been decades since I was in High School but I remember that I had to
stick around for the 12th grade to finish one English Class. They didn't tell
me until the end of my Junior Year that that was the thing keeping me there. I
could of taken it earlier had I known and skipped the 12th grade and went to
college with my older friends. Back then we didn't have AP classes and school
was all or nothing...no release time to attend a college class. But if a kid
can finish everything on time he should have to option to move on without the
12th grade.As for busing...by the time we reached high school we didn't
have buses. We drove or we rode with our friends. Except for rural kids, why
do they take the bus????
I will try this again.. These two ideas of Buttars are not well thought out.
First, the rural areas need school buses. The schools are not just a hop skip
and a jump away. And alot of families in today's economy don't have more then
one car..so driving kids to school isn't an option nor is having them walk.
Second, 12th grade is very necessary. If kids are performing like they are
supposed to they need 4 yrs. of English, 4 yrs of Math, 4 yrs. of Science. They
can't get that in only 3 yrs of high school. In order to be ready for college
these kids need to have this plus a foreign language. Maybe you can get rid of
kindergarten, just let it be 1st-12th grade.
I'm no fan of Chris Buttars, but this is a great idea for the entire nation.
I've thought for a long time that are kids should be applying for college when
they are 16. We keep them in primary and secondary school for way too long.
What is this nonsense about 12th grade being for "slackers" and "playing
around?" What? Buttars, evidently you were a slacker. You should be
Buttars is always good for a laugh. Well, for me he is since he's not my
representative. If he were, I'd have done all I could to vote him out by now.
Not sure Buttars plan to cut the seniour year of HS will fly, but he does raise
some important points - lets be creative about this budget thing. I have a few
suggestions regarding the Education Budget:1. Discontinue all bus
service. It is the responsibility of parents to get their kids to school.2. Discontinue HS sports. I am a HUGE sport's fan, but realise that drastic
measures need to be taken. Kids can play sport for clubs.3. Slash the
administration in the districts. Have you ever walked into a D.O? There are
people everywhere - everyone seems to have a secretary/assistant.4.
Charge parents for stationery.5. Stop paying teachers to be mentors.
Surely being a mentor is part of the job.6. Cut back on maintenance crews
- there are just too many people doing too few jobs.By the way, I am
a teacher. Give me a few extra kids, raise my property taxes slightly, make a
few tough calls (like the ones I've suggested), but don't cut our salaries
I've never understood this guy. He's a fool and any of you who voted for him
Buttars pushes for everyone to be as ignorant of reality as he is.
Buttars has got to be the dumbest individual in the state, and so off the wall
with his ill thought out plans.If the 12th grade is such a loss to
slacking in eduction then its the systems fault, not the budgets fault. By law
we are required to provide K1-K12 education and if its not being done then the
system needs fixing. To call 12th grade a slacker year and to eliminate it only
moves the slacker year back to the 11th grade and the whole issue arises again.
The one thing that does not belong in public education is day care and family
food services.With so many high school grads that can't function in
common tasks such as reading, writing, and math who can you blame but the
system?Budget cuts start at the top and higher education, not public
schools. Higher education is not public education therefore that is where the
waste and excess costs lie.The only high schools that should have
any buses are the rural schools where distances to schools are measured in miles
and not blocks. Walking is good exercise that many students could use more of.
talking about?My oldest is in his first year of University at Salt
Lake Community college. He took his senior year very seriously.Yes
the state may save money by eliminating 12th grade, however it would save even
more if it would eliminate 11th too, and so forth.Mr. Buttars, this
is a really dumb idea.
I say let's eliminate 1st grade, then we can stillhave 12th but we would
just start counting at 2.
Utah is not short of funds, Utah is just short of imagination on where to get
funds.The price of minerals is quite high world wide right now, and
any company who is taking minerals out of the ground in Utah is doing well
financially.Rather than cheat Utah kids out of a decent education by
cutting educational opportunity, why not increase the Utah tax on minerals taken
out of the ground?Its not hard times in all of Utahs economy, just
parts. Good tax policy would place the burden on those parts able to bear
it.We should raise funding for education, but at the same time,
increase teacher standards and expectations. Math education is a hollow shell
compared to what it was several years ago.Yes some subjects are
taught earlier, (geometry in elementary) and more subjects are taught, we teach
statistics now,But ... The quality of what is taught is far lower
than it used to be. Challenging math problems have given way to very easier
problems in the AP track.And if Utah is still getting students into
the best universities, this is only because the rest of the nation has declined
in educational quality also.
Getting college credit in High School is not as smart as people make it out to
be.For one, the quality of instruction, especially math educaton is
inferior in High School.For another, what wrong with getting a full
high school education, and then 4 years on top of that at University.If people get college education in High School, then to on to take less
credits at University, they have cheated themselves out of a full high school
If he wants to cut out a grade from school, why not kindergarten?? 12th grade is
very necessary in school. I'm sorry but I'm really tired of hearing about
Buttars dumb ideas. First he wants to get rid of school buses..that's fine in
big cities but not for us who live in the rural areas where it's not logical to
make them walk to school when it's not just a mile or 2 away..and now this. He
really needs to "put his thinking cap on" a little tighter.
Stupid is as stupid does. THe voters who continue to elect him are plain stupid
because they elect someone that reflects their values. Those who
say they wasted their senior year, shame on them. They are the ones who could
have taken some challenging classes, but wanted to have fun their senior year.
I worked in a high school for 33 years and there were always classes the seniors
could take, but they didn't want to because it might hurt their GPA or they
couldn't party all year. Granted they should be given the option of graduating
early or taking college courses during their senior year. But to
cut the 12th grade in one fell swoop, is pure insanity.Dear Factor:
Another lamebrained comment. Yes, private schools could do better, but only
because they will exclude anyone who earns less than an A. They will not accept
Special Education students or parents who cannot afford the tuition. Then we
will have an elitist society. It is in the interest of society to have an
educated citizenry.Our problem don't want to fail students (thier
poor psychi) and the parents have abdicated their responsibility. Kids are lazy.
Is there no end to the madness, that education has to be cut through the
bone?There are sources of funds, .. we can increase the tax on
mining or we can reverse the flat income tax, which was a significant tax cut
for Utah's wealthy and pocket change for everyone else who benefits by it.Don't we value education any more? What has happened to our values?
The real fools are those that keep this thing in office! Why not just get scrap
high school all together, that will save $!Has this ever been sonw
anywhere in the world . . .
Anyone can get educated after For the price of Money v/s Skills of a
This would put a larger gap between the rulers and the ruled. It would make it
much more difficult for many students to make a transition from high school to
college,Suggest enforcing immigration laws. With $6,000 per student
spending, 100,000 children costs this state 600 million dollars each year. Remove state supplied health care from our legislature. The majority
have said that Government run Insurance is no good. Ask Goldman
Sachs for the 47 million back we gave them last year in tax breaks. It's money
we will be paying for in the years to come. At least when Obama bailed them out,
he asked them to repay it (no bonuses until paid). It was paid in less than a
You both make some good points. My kids all graduated in rural Nevada, where the
school system is run much differently than here in Utah. There were many
required classes that were not available until 12th grade due to prerequisites.
But many of the kids took online classes or distance learning courses (where you
interact with the professor via live video) so many had college credits by the
time they graduated. If kids here are finished with most of their credits by
12th grade, then there should be an option for taking only the required 4th year
classes (like English, Math, Government, etc.) and then being released to attend
college classes or seek employment. I don't think 12th grade should be "done
away with", but perhaps modification would be in order. As for
busing, in rural areas there is no other way for kids without cars to get to
school. Some kids travel 20-30 miles one way to get to our high school, so
busing is essential for many. Public transportation isn't available in many
areas of the state. Not sure of the solution there, but I don't believe busing
should be eliminated.
@Recent HS Grad I don't know if the problem was the school or you,
but I worked my bottom off my senior year and I learned a lot. Maybe you were a
lot smarter than I, but it doesn't look like you applied it very well.I was even asked for my high school transcript for a job application a few
years back. I am sure glad that it didn't show that I only had the ambition to
take 4 art classes my senior year.If you are so gifted, I'm sure
your entire senior year could have been more rewarding if you had helped some of
your classmates (and in my class there were some that needed help.)One of the ideas presented for seniors is an IN-DEPTH review of many
professions. Not just a guest lecturer to stand up and say, "this is what my
typical day is like."Mr. Butters doesn't represent my opinion when
he says get rid of the 12th grade. If we do maybe we should have a year of
something like service in a field like resource management or medical.
I graduated at 11th grade and went on to college and got my degree early and I
am one of supporter of the idea. It may not work for everyone but at least look
deeply not so much about saving money for the sake of the state, but a lot of
senior at high school can say its kinda waste of time.....well the key education
happens at college not high school
Where in the world does this guy come up with this stuff? My senior year was
not a "waste of time" but I took the opportunity to take AP classes that
enriched my understanding, and not only gave me college credit, but actually
prepared me for a college work load. Students have the opportunity to graduate
early if they want, but why would we deprive students of educational
opportunities just to save a quick buck. This is probably worse than the bus
cut suggestion. And Mr. Buttars is just showing us the fact that his education
probably did stop in the 11th grade. I don't understand how somebody could be
so short sighted, education is the key to the future, take it away, and we have
This is just what we need in Utah a less educated society. The 12th grade
offers students a chance to persue areas of interest in more depth, to
investigate subjects which they may not have had time to take before their
senior year becasue they were completing required courses, or to gain maturity
to face life through leadership opportunity and advanced level experiences.
Sen. Buttars is wrong to suggest that 12th grade is not essential for a full
comprehensive education of our Utah students. Implementation of
this idea will put Utah students at a distinct disadvantage with their peers
from other states in both college and the work force. We will have created a
sub-class who is unable to compete on an equal basis with other teens. What are
you thinking Sen. Buttars? (Perhaps it is that you do not think.) We need
leaders who not only think outside of the box, but leaders who think of
productive solutions to problems not create new problems with 'hair-brained'
solutions.Sen. Buttars it is time for you to retire from the Senate
and tend your garden, or take a vacation. Enough of politics for you. You sir
Is Buttars really this absolutely out of touch? He has come up with some
doozies in the past year. Where is the data for his statement? My kids work
hard their senior year because scholarships are on the line. If he's looking
for shock value just to get his name in the papers, he wins the prize. We want
thoughtful ideas that make sense and add value. He scores a big zero on this
one. Let's just vote him out so we don't have to hear any of his unsupported
With all the talk of lower test scores compared to other countries, we need to
make 12th grade tougher and more stringent, not get rid of it completely. When
there's a storm, you weather it, you don't dismantle the boat.
Yeah Buttars--let's put 17 year old kids on college campuses--that's a great
idea. What is he thinking--it's tough enough to go to college at 18, or get a
full-time job tehn. Also, not everyone has a car so you're pretty much saying
anyone who is middle class or low income just don't come to school or walk miles
to get there. Finally, I agree that senior year should be beefed up to give
kids skill sets for college, tech jobs or whatever, but making 11th grade
optional is plain stupid. I can't believe people vote for this politician.
suggesting that we drop all athletics? They did that for us in Alaska in the
late 80s due to budget. Just wondering.
what about athletic programs or educational programs where your senior year is
what colleges are looking at. very few athletes get looked at there junior year
in high school its not til senior year comes around that scholarship offers
start rolling in. this might not make a difference if all utah colleges change
on how they approach this but it will make a huge difference on if out of state
colleges even look at these athletes because they are interested but not quite
satisfied to offer a scholarship. if they are looking at two different athletes
both have a good junior year but only one gets a senior year and obviously
outshines the one who doesnt even get a chance and either misses out on a
scholorship or has to go to a smaller college and try to work their way to the
bigger school. either way they miss out on an opportunity.
In response to Sen. Buttars wanting to discontinue 12th grade: he is saying that
we should fast track schools to get kids out by the end of 11th grade. This is a
terrible idea and will not save us as much money as he claims.1. Many,
many kids take seminary during school hours. If we fast track them then seminary
goes away during school hours. That means we now have all those kids needing to
be in a school classroom. If they are not in seminary they will be in a school
building. That will cost a lot of money to get more classrooms for all those
kids- which means more schools and more teachers. There goes a lot of Buttars
supposed savings.2. Kids are not mature enough at 16 and 17 (Juniors) to
be heading off to college. Heck most 18 year olds aren't mature enough.3.
Utah kids will not go to college. Since most universities in the USA require 4
years of English and Social Studies and want 4 years of Math, Utah's kids will
not be accepted into any university.No thanks, Sen. Buttars.
Why not get rid of 12th grade? Get rid of ALL the grades. The entire school
system is just another government entitlement program. If people want their
kids educated they should let the private sector do it. I'm sure private schools
could do a better job than the socialist school system we have now! Let the free market decide! GOP in 2012!
How can anyone take him seriously....why does he keep getting re-elected?
Inquiring minds want to know. Is he really the best this state has to offer?
I recently graduated and I must say, that I am sure thousands of tax dollars
were wasted on me taking 4 art classes and a few gym classes senior year. I was
not a slacker though. By senior year, thanks to concurrent enrollment, I
basically had my associates degree. It is my experience that most high school
students really do waste the senior year because there is little the school has
to offer them. If anything, senior year should be completely run by SLCC and
students should start taking college courses instead of filling the day with
ejucashon, whoe neds it?
I agree that "Thinking outside the box" is something our congretial leaders need
to do more. However, cutting back on our students education is not thinking
outside the box. I see Buttars idea as a week minded solution to a big problem.
Buttars is an embarrassment to his constituents and to the people in the state
of Utah. I would hope that those he represents cut him from the legislature.
students! Many have finished most college requirements by 11th grade. If they
would "free" the kids to just take one or two last classes (and NOT financial
lit - they should exempt kids with a test for that class)it would be GREAT!
Kids could start taking classes at SLCC, get jobs and earn money for college -
anything but spend countless endless hours in the high school halls wasting
their time with friends, "hanging out"! Now lots of kids still
would need and want a Senior year, but why not allow an "opt-out" for the MANY
who would take it?GREAT IDEA!! Just needs a little tweaking!
This Guy is awesome! And he's absolutely right. ..we cannot keep things as we
always have. Buttars has a real spine and shows some creative solutions to the
budget shortfall...I haven't even heard anyone else up on the hill suggest
anything to deal with the issue at stake. People, wake up! Most of you in Salt
Lake County voted for change last year, and all I see on the comment board is
people wanting to keep the status quo.
Who keeps voting for this guy? ...One bad idea after another. Time to retire.
All right, I've had enough. This guy just keeps making those who he is supposed
to work for look stupid. Will you people who keep electing this guy please stop
voting for him? It's time for Buttars and his generation to retire and fade
This really is a weak minded idea! I'm curious as to how there can be no need
for 12th grade? My high school experience included the following
requirements(had to look it back up)4 years English, 4 years Math, 4 years
Science, 4 years History, 3 years Foreign Language. 1 semester Geography, 1
semester Language Skills(English Reading and Speech Presentation) Required
Classes also included 2 semester Art/Music and 4 years of Physical Education,
plus other electives. Maybe the education requirements are too weak or the
classes are too easy? Or the Legislature is to Lazy or afraid to do the job they
need to do!
Will Mr. Buttars foolish statements never end? Please, someone close to him,
make him stop! Or at least edit him.
How stupid can people in Utah be to continue to elect this nutbar.Anyone sure that he passed his senior year?
Honestly, the only Buttars has ever proposed that makes sense.
Butters comes up with a good idea?Amazing.Kill the 12th and
Buses for most High School teachers.
Buttars should grow a brain. That single brain cell he has up there is getting
this is one of the worst ideas i have ever heard. how stupid can politicians