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Texas officials drafting plans for FLDS children
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Laura | 5:54 a.m. May 8, 2008
There is much more to the story, the real important details are kept away from
the public. Does anyone remember the Duke lacrosse team accusations? the tactics
are the same here. they are conducting an obviously wrong prosecution, (or
persecution) let's hope these kids are kept safe and will be restored to a
peaceful life.
Lilathe | 7:16 a.m. May 8, 2008
Many times after they make a service plan and the parents meet the requirements,
CPS keeps changing the plans making it impossible for the families to meet
them. At least that is how CPS in Texas operates, never worked with any families
in Utah.
After the family has not met the impossible to meet plans for one year, CPS will claim the one year mark and move to terminate parental rights and claim the child is no longer bonded to their family but bonded to the foster parents.
After the family has not met the impossible to meet plans for one year, CPS will claim the one year mark and move to terminate parental rights and claim the child is no longer bonded to their family but bonded to the foster parents.
gal50 | 7:39 a.m. May 8, 2008
This is typical CPS procedure. The FLDS children experienced sexual abuse which
is typical for some of the children in CPS custody, but they experienced it for
a different reason than the other children in CPS custody. These kids
experienced abuse because the Jeffs' crew turned the FLDS into a cult-like
entity. Therefore, the mothers and/or fathers would have to start therapy in
order to regain custody of their children. They will have to show that they are
able to support their children. They may have to get a GED. And, they may have
to complete jail time. They would probably have to permanently leave the
compound and renounce polygamy. There are other options, but they are too messy
for CPS. If the FLDS renounced polygamy just like the LDS and if the FLDS
ditched Jeffs and Jessop, it is possible they could return to the compound.
Multiple wives would have to disperse. The Tom Green case allowed the wives to
live in a fourplex. Although they were under the same roof, they were in
separate homes. In this case, three wives could live in three different
buildings that each housed two more non-related wives. I'm eager to
seeTHEservicePLANS.
Comments continue below
Kids ID | 7:44 a.m. May 8, 2008
Finally, the FLDS will have to start being honest about their identities. When
the hearings take place, the FLDS parents won't be able to petition the
court to have a particular child returned to a GROUP of parents. They'll
have to identify specific child/parent relationships if they want to get their
children back.
For their sake, I hope they at least know the real father and mother of each child. If a child has been "adopted" by non-biological parents, let's hope they have some legal proof of the adoption.
Unfortunately, I think we'll find that this is one big happy family, afterall, and that the FLDS children are traded from family to family like so much chattel.
For their sake, I hope they at least know the real father and mother of each child. If a child has been "adopted" by non-biological parents, let's hope they have some legal proof of the adoption.
Unfortunately, I think we'll find that this is one big happy family, afterall, and that the FLDS children are traded from family to family like so much chattel.
buck | 7:53 a.m. May 8, 2008
ACLU has issued a statement, basically finding many faults in the entire CPS
fiasco.
These famlies will win, and the texas cps witchunters will finally be reigned in and seen for what they are.
These famlies will win, and the texas cps witchunters will finally be reigned in and seen for what they are.
to gal150 | 8:10 a.m. May 8, 2008
The parents will need to keep diaries of all their encounters with CPS and their
demands. If at all possible they should have their lawyers present. What is
happening now will not look good ten years down the line when there is a regime
change. As for returning to the compound, it may be the fact that someone
powerful wanted the ranch which is the root of the whole mess. The state will
be humiliated in the long run because they have not dealt with the FDLS children
in a just manner.
Red | 8:12 a.m. May 8, 2008
On April 30, attorneys for 38 FLDS women filed an appeal with the 3rd Court of
Appeals.
Texas Department of Family and Protective Services was expected to respond by May 2.
There's not a whisper of recent coverage of this suit on Google News.
Did DFPS respond?
What did they say?
What is the status of the suit?
Texas Department of Family and Protective Services was expected to respond by May 2.
There's not a whisper of recent coverage of this suit on Google News.
Did DFPS respond?
What did they say?
What is the status of the suit?
Re: buck | 8:13 a.m. May 8, 2008
"These famlies will win, and the texas cps witchunters will finally be
reigned in and seen for what they are."
The ACLU statement amounted to little more than a wait and see position. The ACLU, like most of us, are waiting to see whether CPS can produce evidence to prove that the FLDS were indeed sexually abusing there children through forced underage marriages.
The ACLU statement amounted to little more than a wait and see position. The ACLU, like most of us, are waiting to see whether CPS can produce evidence to prove that the FLDS were indeed sexually abusing there children through forced underage marriages.
Brooke | 8:15 a.m. May 8, 2008
Texas CPS believe they are our parents. They are spanking these children in
their custody. Wow, I thought they were accusing their parents of abuse.
Please write or call your elected officials to stop this clear violation of
constitutional rights. My opinion is that Texas CPS is going to build a similar
case against the FLDS to the McMartin Preschool Case. Kids in jail will say
anything if they are told they will be reunited with their parents. Modesto, Ca
Ray of Hope | 8:26 a.m. May 8, 2008
This situations seems so hopeless for the children. The CPS is requiring classes
for homemaking? I think they threw that in to make the FLDS look less than
capable of taking care of the children. What I have seen the houses were clean
and the children well taken care off. I hope the rest of the US gets together to
fight for the rights of these children and moms.
dlr | 8:43 a.m. May 8, 2008
So what do you do with these children? Divvy them out to be converted by the
different churches. "Let's see, this group will be come Baptist.
This group will be Luthern. This girl will make a good nun..."
There is a God in the Heavens who is the Judge. Parents are given the responsibility to look after their children, and will be judged accordingly. These children remind me of my own children. They are will taken care of. They are nursed rather than bottle fed. Junk food is not a part of their lives. These children need to go back to their parents. If there is something wrong with with the parent's lifestyle, then changes can be negotiated. Why send in the 'army' to 'jail' all the children for their own good?
By the way, the 'correct' lifestyle is skin tight jeans and half the breast peaking out. The 'corrent' lifestyle says "look but don't touch". What is wrong with a modest lifestyle and loose clothing that cover a person?
The truth of the matter, is that the self-rightous Texans do not want this group in Texas, and are doing everything possible to expel them.
There is a God in the Heavens who is the Judge. Parents are given the responsibility to look after their children, and will be judged accordingly. These children remind me of my own children. They are will taken care of. They are nursed rather than bottle fed. Junk food is not a part of their lives. These children need to go back to their parents. If there is something wrong with with the parent's lifestyle, then changes can be negotiated. Why send in the 'army' to 'jail' all the children for their own good?
By the way, the 'correct' lifestyle is skin tight jeans and half the breast peaking out. The 'corrent' lifestyle says "look but don't touch". What is wrong with a modest lifestyle and loose clothing that cover a person?
The truth of the matter, is that the self-rightous Texans do not want this group in Texas, and are doing everything possible to expel them.
Valid Marriages | 9:02 a.m. May 8, 2008
CPS will be able to provide enough evidence of underage marriages to show that
their actions were justified. A few FLDS men will be charged. The families
directly involved will have their children returned, but they will be put on
probation and will have to provide proof of having a valid marriage license
before a marriage involving any of their minor children is allowed to be
performed. The FLDS families who have not been directly involved with forced
underaged marriages will have their children returned to them with no
restrictions.
Sakeneko | 9:18 a.m. May 8, 2008
I see a lot of people here in a rush to judge and asserting things as facts that
have not been established as facts. There's no way anybody who isn't
close to the process could know whether there was sufficient legal reason to
take the FLDS children or to what extent. But in this day of bloviating talking
heads on tv and the Internet, I guess ignorance can't be expected to stop
people from forming and expressing opinions. :/
Interesting | 9:22 a.m. May 8, 2008
If I read this story correctly, these children have been placed in group
facilities, not individual foster homes where they could get some sort of
individual attention. Group homes have "house parents" sometimes, but
other times, just employees who take care of groups of children. None of them
have ANY familial type connection with the children. How is this better than
being in a family--even a "group" type family? Many of the children
the FLDS kids will be placed with come from much more abusive, and even
criminal, family backgrounds. I don't think that's the "real
world" I'd want my kids dropped into. I don't see that the kids
are going to be better off than they were.
Can we not admit that the Texas authorities have made critical mistakes in handling this case? And that the FLDS have also? There is no need for all the insults and hatred in posts. If the children's welfare is our top concern, there is no reason we can't expect accountability from BOTH the parties in this horrible mess.
Can we not admit that the Texas authorities have made critical mistakes in handling this case? And that the FLDS have also? There is no need for all the insults and hatred in posts. If the children's welfare is our top concern, there is no reason we can't expect accountability from BOTH the parties in this horrible mess.
Concerned in Nevada | 9:40 a.m. May 8, 2008
I think the State of Texas did the right thing. It may seem overwhelming now,
but compared to the very real reality of this kind of life waiting for the girls
of this sect and the liklihood of the young boys being thrown out--this is
better all the way around. I am not saying that this kind of change isn't
going to have a few hitches along the way, there hasn't been a raid on a
FLDS compound in many years, but the fact that that kind of life has been
allowed to flourish unchecked is plain wrong.
Uncle | 9:51 a.m. May 8, 2008
As Dr Phil told Larry King, when these babies remain with CPS they will end up
in prison or on the street as has happened in the past with children left to
their care.
I would recomend reading information on the Waco raid(1993). They have had the hearings, investigations ect. They all seems to have one voice "it was a mistake and should never have happened" another quote "we should make sure this never happens again" Janet Reno (I think) "The thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history"
Even Clinton said "I made a big mistake" in authorizing the raid. He did it after being preasured by the FBI I think.
I would recomend reading information on the Waco raid(1993). They have had the hearings, investigations ect. They all seems to have one voice "it was a mistake and should never have happened" another quote "we should make sure this never happens again" Janet Reno (I think) "The thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history"
Even Clinton said "I made a big mistake" in authorizing the raid. He did it after being preasured by the FBI I think.
So Sad | 9:58 a.m. May 8, 2008
After their brief exposure to the real world, it will take months if not years
for all of the FLDS children to be re-indoctrinated into becoming the mindless
sheep that they are supposed to be.
Some of them may even develop thoughts and desires of their own and may decide not to return to the FLDS lifestyle.
Some of them may even develop thoughts and desires of their own and may decide not to return to the FLDS lifestyle.
Emma | 9:59 a.m. May 8, 2008
Maybe the FLDS are being held to a higher standard.
They get married.
They don't have children out of wedlock.
They don't watch television.
They have stay at home moms.
They have healthy meals.
They dress modestly.
They have clean homes.
This is all so UNAMERICAN. This had to be stoped.
They get married.
They don't have children out of wedlock.
They don't watch television.
They have stay at home moms.
They have healthy meals.
They dress modestly.
They have clean homes.
This is all so UNAMERICAN. This had to be stoped.
Brig | 10:02 a.m. May 8, 2008
I'm calling my congressman, how about you?
We need action instead of all this talk.
We need action instead of all this talk.
Oklahoma Mormon | 10:03 a.m. May 8, 2008
I have a novel idea. Why not give the kids back and mind their own business.
All of this is just a BS idea of "Big Brother". Looking at a new type
of government is sure looking better and better.
child's rights? | 10:05 a.m. May 8, 2008
Those of you that feel the children should go back to the ranch - I have a
question...
These mothers are normally confined to the ranch. The children (especially the girls) are totally confined to the ranch. They are told daily that everything and everyone outside the gates are evil and if they leave they will go to hell. They are told this from the day they are born by people that they trust.
Now we all know there is bad in the world, but I'm sure there's some behind their gates as well. They teach the children that persons of color have no soul and other crazy (and wrong) things. So the children grow up believing all of this. They believe leaving the compound will lead to damnation. So they will never get a good education, never have an opportunity to make their mark in the world (some could do great things out there), never experience LIFE outside the compound.
Question: Is this fair for the children, or is it abuse? Should parents be allowed to confine their children and imbed concepts that so restrictive and outlandish that the child will probably never have a normal life?
These mothers are normally confined to the ranch. The children (especially the girls) are totally confined to the ranch. They are told daily that everything and everyone outside the gates are evil and if they leave they will go to hell. They are told this from the day they are born by people that they trust.
Now we all know there is bad in the world, but I'm sure there's some behind their gates as well. They teach the children that persons of color have no soul and other crazy (and wrong) things. So the children grow up believing all of this. They believe leaving the compound will lead to damnation. So they will never get a good education, never have an opportunity to make their mark in the world (some could do great things out there), never experience LIFE outside the compound.
Question: Is this fair for the children, or is it abuse? Should parents be allowed to confine their children and imbed concepts that so restrictive and outlandish that the child will probably never have a normal life?
Ekim | 10:07 a.m. May 8, 2008
Oh, yeah. I'm going with everything the aclu says. What a bunch of
losers!!
transplant | 10:10 a.m. May 8, 2008
Aint'it awful aint'it awful enough already. What do we tell our
legislators to do about monitoring these types of groups? How can we approach
this situation in order to protect children number one in the future, right of
individuals children and adults in the future? There are three thousand cults
in this country. If these folks leave others may come. You lawyers out there,
readers of the law, are there statues already in existence which we could dust
off and implement more stingently? Let's put our minds to finding a
solution together. A lot of you posters are very mindful and thoughtful. However
most sound powerless. You're not. You have the power of the vote.
Everything in government flows from the law. Let's make it work for us.
grandma | 10:17 a.m. May 8, 2008
I just wonder why these children cannot be placed with extended family members
who are not members of the FLDS. I imagine there are tons of them.
Re: Emma | 10:34 a.m. May 8, 2008
Good list, and most of the FLDS are good and decent people, but you left a few
of Warren Jeffs' favorite items off the list.
They sexually abuse forced child brides.
They kick young boys out of their community.
They re-assign wives and children to other husbands.
This is all so UNAMERICAN that this must be stopped.
They sexually abuse forced child brides.
They kick young boys out of their community.
They re-assign wives and children to other husbands.
This is all so UNAMERICAN that this must be stopped.
Kristin | 10:41 a.m. May 8, 2008
These young children are being forced to have sex and get married long before
they are legally allowed to or emotionally prepared to. They are being
continually "raped" by older men in their compound. How is it ok for
these children to remain in that environment? Legal age for consentual sex is 17
in most states. This group should be held to the standard that the rest of our
nation is.
Bottom line... CPS is only trying to protect these children. Outsiders cannot claim to think they could handle it better if they have no idea how the system works. Children should not be brainwashed, raped, or married by 14 years old.
Bottom line... CPS is only trying to protect these children. Outsiders cannot claim to think they could handle it better if they have no idea how the system works. Children should not be brainwashed, raped, or married by 14 years old.
Lindsey | 10:56 a.m. May 8, 2008
Their world is a cult, they do not make up they their minds, they eat when told,
they stay in one place, they marry who they are told too. I read that the
average 15 year old on the ranch has the critical thinking on the avrage
American 6 year old!!! These girls are having children when they should be
playing soccer or going to the movies. Not forced to "marry" and be
raped by a main 2 to 3 times her age. No child should ever go back there. And as
for their parents, they will need YEARS of help to be able to function in the
real world and protect their children. The world is real, running away
doesn't solve anything. Every culture has its own problems. Breaking the
law has nothing to do with religion. If Texas losses this case and send those
children back, it will be the sadest day in American history.
Keep an eye on them | 11:03 a.m. May 8, 2008
What ever the authorities do it had better be for the best interest of the
children. The children do not need to grow up to be made sex slaves for older
men. They need to observe this cult closely if any of those kids are allowed to
go back to the compound.
Re: Childs Rights? | 11:03 a.m. May 8, 2008
Don't you people go on with how these people are being oppressed because
they are different-No one is bothering the Amish and they are different.
I agree with the fact that the children who grow up on the ranch are afraid to leave because of what they are told about the outside. They are also not prepared to leave because most probably have no birth certificates to even get an identification card. You can't get a place to rent, a hotel, an education or a job without an identification card. They also have been raised to think that outsiders are evil and that brown skinned people are under some kind of curse.
The girls are raised to be very submissive to the men and that their eternal life depends on it. So they are vulnerable to be sexually exploited at the 'husbands' desire. What about their desires? How could they leave if they are unhappy when they wouldn't be supported to leave (where would they get money?) and would they be let back in to visit family when they chose?
This does not sound like freedom of choice. It doesn't sound American. Where is the mind freedom?
I agree with the fact that the children who grow up on the ranch are afraid to leave because of what they are told about the outside. They are also not prepared to leave because most probably have no birth certificates to even get an identification card. You can't get a place to rent, a hotel, an education or a job without an identification card. They also have been raised to think that outsiders are evil and that brown skinned people are under some kind of curse.
The girls are raised to be very submissive to the men and that their eternal life depends on it. So they are vulnerable to be sexually exploited at the 'husbands' desire. What about their desires? How could they leave if they are unhappy when they wouldn't be supported to leave (where would they get money?) and would they be let back in to visit family when they chose?
This does not sound like freedom of choice. It doesn't sound American. Where is the mind freedom?
Constitutional | 11:22 a.m. May 8, 2008
YES!!! I like the idea to call our congressman. These children ARE being abused
BY THE CPS!!! The reason the broken bones issue came out is because a CPS
officer broke a child's arm while ripping her away from her mother---THIS
IS AMERICA!!! Who checks on the CPS so they do not make the children little
drug-ies before they dump them into society. Please write to your congressmen-if
one American's rights are trampled, it will be all rights before long.
Re: Kristin | 11:28 a.m. May 8, 2008
You have bought into all the false reports of child rape, forced marriages, and
intentual slavery. Their apostates have done a good job of clouding the truth.
There may have been a couple of incidents but the facts from some of the Lost
Boys was they left on their own because they did not obey the rules the church
had. (Alcohol, Very high Moral Standards etc.) The women have said that nobody
was forced into any marriage. The "continually raped" comment has
turned out to be a HOAX by someone with an ax to grind.
Silke | 12:18 p.m. May 8, 2008
People will do well to heed Lilathes story posted @ 7.16 am.
Kristin | 12:33 p.m. May 8, 2008
I have not bought into anything. The facts are these; If a girl is married at 14
years old, it is forced. Once she is married and continues to have sex as a
minor, that is continual rape. Once they are old enough to be woman, by all
means, they have the right to marry and have sex with their husbands. Until they
are legal adults- every practice their parents are making them be a part of is
illegal and is defined as rape. Regardless of the laws, they are emotionally
abused. I have two women friends, who finally found the strength to leave this
faith and we're only allowed to take 4 daughters out of 10. The lifestyle
they preach, and force upon their children, is brainwashing. These women have
story upon story that show how abusive this cult is to their children, boys and
girls. Emotional and mental abuse is just as damaging, if not more, as physical
abuse.
Anonymous | 12:44 p.m. May 8, 2008
FYI: More than 80% of children removed from there homes in Texas are reunified
with their families, not adopted. Do a little research before posting.
RE:Constitutional | 12:49 p.m. May 8, 2008
It's me - "childs rights" poster above.
You seem to think all these children should go back to their parents.. How about you answer my questions above? You think the CPS is wrong and the approach is wrong. What do you suggest, or do you think all is well within the FLDS compound and the children should be returned?
You seem to think all these children should go back to their parents.. How about you answer my questions above? You think the CPS is wrong and the approach is wrong. What do you suggest, or do you think all is well within the FLDS compound and the children should be returned?
Too "Kids ID | 7:44 " | 12:52 p.m. May 8, 2008
They obviously live in a communal society (where many parents contribute in
various ways to the family and the raising of the kids). For example, some of
the mothers work, while other mothers care for the infants and others take care
of the eduction needs, others cook, etc. (The proverbial "Village"
Hillary Clinton talked about).
So just identifying who the "birth parent" is, doesn't resolve all the issues. It's more complex than that.
Guns won't solve it. Courts won't solve it. Jails won't solve it. Until you change their hearts the cycle won't change. This Raid is the WRONG approach.
Going in there with a calm approach would have been better than running in with guns and tanks and taking all the kids and telling the parents "They are ours now", insinuating they will never see them again. This was not the best approach.
So just identifying who the "birth parent" is, doesn't resolve all the issues. It's more complex than that.
Guns won't solve it. Courts won't solve it. Jails won't solve it. Until you change their hearts the cycle won't change. This Raid is the WRONG approach.
Going in there with a calm approach would have been better than running in with guns and tanks and taking all the kids and telling the parents "They are ours now", insinuating they will never see them again. This was not the best approach.
Thomas | 1:00 p.m. May 8, 2008
I only hope that The CPS will finally discover a sense of humanity and reunite
these families.
Re: Too "Kids ID | 1:17 p.m. May 8, 2008
"They obviously live in a communal society (where many parents contribute
in various ways to the family and the raising of the kids)."
Texas is not going to recognize more than one father and one mother for each child just because the FLDS have chosen to practice polygamy.
The FLDS will just complicate things for themselves if they try to do that.
Texas is not going to recognize more than one father and one mother for each child just because the FLDS have chosen to practice polygamy.
The FLDS will just complicate things for themselves if they try to do that.
re: Constitutional | 1:25 p.m. May 8, 2008
Could you please provide some source for the claim you posted that "a CPS
officer broke a child's arm while ripping her away from her
mother".
thanks
thanks
re: Brig and the Congressman | 1:36 p.m. May 8, 2008
Calling will not hurt, but probably will not do any good either. Like your
Congressman cares what you think and will stick his face in this mess for you.
You might also want to google "captive flds children" and find the page FLDS parents set up. See what evidence they posted, and if you are still convinced they have some point, there is a Donate page available for you to make a real contribution. Money talks. These folks will need a lot of little pennies to fight the CPS.
I don't care much for polygamy one way or another, and if there is abuse, well go investigate and bring on some charges. This business of "no one is charged with anything, you can all go home, but we will keep your children in group homes we decide are good enough for them" is a nightmare I think any awake parent can relate to. Any of you oddballs out there, homeschoolers, vegetarians, vegans, nudists, fundamentalist or Orthodox this or that, better take notice. These people are already figting your battle. You can stand behind them and demand that their rights be respected. Or not. You have the choice, they don't.
You might also want to google "captive flds children" and find the page FLDS parents set up. See what evidence they posted, and if you are still convinced they have some point, there is a Donate page available for you to make a real contribution. Money talks. These folks will need a lot of little pennies to fight the CPS.
I don't care much for polygamy one way or another, and if there is abuse, well go investigate and bring on some charges. This business of "no one is charged with anything, you can all go home, but we will keep your children in group homes we decide are good enough for them" is a nightmare I think any awake parent can relate to. Any of you oddballs out there, homeschoolers, vegetarians, vegans, nudists, fundamentalist or Orthodox this or that, better take notice. These people are already figting your battle. You can stand behind them and demand that their rights be respected. Or not. You have the choice, they don't.
The Babies | 1:42 p.m. May 8, 2008
How can CPS justify keeping 102 children under the age of 2?
re: Thomas | 1:46 p.m. May 8, 2008
Why would CPS use any sense of humanity ? They are 9-5 bureaucrats, just doing
their jobs, and following their procedures. They love to take the path of least
resistance, going after nice people who do not keep pit bulls on premises and do
not resist them. Makes it much easier to get home in time for dinner. Why stray
from the path procedures prescribe and act out of "sense of humanity"
? No one was denied promotion for following procedures to the letter, even if it
ends in a disaster for the kids. But if you try to apply a sense of humanity and
something goes amiss, you are in a deep end. So I don't think I woudl count
on this too much. They will have to be fought or at elast threatened with a bad
legal fight, so it does not pay for them to persist.
Why Not? | 2:00 p.m. May 8, 2008
Many areas in the "inner cities" have a "culture that promotes
abuse of children" (to use the words of Angie Voss of Texas CPS) - drug
use, crime, underage sex, sexual assault, prostitution, and gang violence. This
is very well documented with hard evidence, Dept of Justice statistics, crime
statistics, and academic research studies in respected peer-reviewed journals -
as opposed to the gossip and innuendo from Nancy Grace and other in the main
stream media and popular books that passes for evidence against the FLDS in this
particular case. According to one article, there are even "2nd generation
gang members" now - in other words, parents teaching their children to join
gangs. When are the authorities going to go into the inner cities with their
tanks and guns and rescue all those children?? Surely very young children,
babies even, should be removed from such an environment to prevent exposure to
such heinous activity where they might in the future become victims or
perpetrators. Surely we can all agree they would be so much better off growing
up with nice middle-class families in suburbia. Surely those children have a
right to grow up in a better environment. Don't they?
To Emma | 2:06 p.m. May 8, 2008
To: Emma | 9:59 a.m. May 8, 2008
What ever happened to:
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
What ever happened to:
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
CPS supporter | 2:25 p.m. May 8, 2008
It is very easy for people to point the finger and blame CPS for everything.
Working child welfare is one of the hardest jobs in teh nation, most people
won't go near and and will often proclaim, "I couln't do
that!" This is a situation that is above and beyond anything previously
handled. Reality is, if the parents didn't screw up in some way the
children would not have come in to care. Yay for Texas and a one year before
freeing the children, that is much better than a child languishing in the
system. Parents do have an opportunity to get their kids back, but they have to
acknowledge why they were removed. My support goes to all of theose child
welfare workers, foster parents, lawyers, adn judges having to clean up this
mess. In particular to the workers who already have a full caseload and are now
inundated with a large group of children with special needs. Their jobs are not
easy ones and many people are quick to judge and blame CPS but not acknowledge
the responsibilities of the parents to protect their children from harm. If you
want to blame someone, remember the parents.
to re:Thomas | 2:33 p.m. May 8, 2008
I work child welfare and I do not know a single one who only works 9-5. We
start as early as six, some get to go home at 8 some work at 2 am and everyone
in general thinks we are lazy paper pushers. Next time please stop to think
about everything that goes into trying to reuinte parents with their children,
teh services, the transportation, the therapy, behavioral issues, the crisis
phone calls, the responsibility of being legal guardian to 20 children. A child
welfare worker is responsible to the stae, the court, the judge, the lawyers,
the parents, the foster parents, the CASA, and most importantly the kids. I
wish I only worked 9-5 and didn't have the responsibility of manageing 20
little lives.
To: Why not | 2:34 p.m. May 8, 2008
Amen! It is fact beyond dispute that any given inner city hospital sees
frequent 12-13 year old girls giving birth.
Interesting note: anybody here what happened to the "lost" boys that Shurtleff took in? I hear they were too much to handle. Seems most of the "lost" boys were on the outs for being deviant and immoral.
Interesting note: anybody here what happened to the "lost" boys that Shurtleff took in? I hear they were too much to handle. Seems most of the "lost" boys were on the outs for being deviant and immoral.
Re: Why Not? | 2:40 p.m. May 8, 2008
"When are the authorities going to go into the inner cities with their
tanks and guns and rescue all those children??"
When are you going to stop trying to justify the FLDS breaking the law because other people are also breaking the law?
If the FLDS have been raping children using "religious beliefs" as their cover, they're breaking the law, period.
It's irrelevant who else is breaking the law.
When are you going to stop trying to justify the FLDS breaking the law because other people are also breaking the law?
If the FLDS have been raping children using "religious beliefs" as their cover, they're breaking the law, period.
It's irrelevant who else is breaking the law.
re: CPS supporter | 2:56 p.m. May 8, 2008
"Working child welfare is one of the hardest jobs in teh nation".
Ah, try mining or picking strawberries in the field.
"Reality is, if the parents didn't screw up in some way the children would not have come in to care."
Whoa, supporter. With that attitude, why would we even need courts ? CPS says so, therefore parents must be guilty of something ? That seems to be at the root of this whole mess. Where is the presumption of innocence ?
"Parents do have an opportunity to get their kids back, but they have to acknowledge why they were removed."
You know, this sounds so familiar. I grew up in a Communist regime (funny for me to be lecturing you on liberties, I know). It was exactly the way you propose. The State and Its Officials were always presumed right and always acting out of the purest intentions, usually a concern for The Welfare Of The People. There was this thing called "self-criticism" and was done in public in Party meetings. That about your idea of the ceremony of "acknowledgement" ? Where do we find a suitable Party Meeting for this to take place ?
Ah, try mining or picking strawberries in the field.
"Reality is, if the parents didn't screw up in some way the children would not have come in to care."
Whoa, supporter. With that attitude, why would we even need courts ? CPS says so, therefore parents must be guilty of something ? That seems to be at the root of this whole mess. Where is the presumption of innocence ?
"Parents do have an opportunity to get their kids back, but they have to acknowledge why they were removed."
You know, this sounds so familiar. I grew up in a Communist regime (funny for me to be lecturing you on liberties, I know). It was exactly the way you propose. The State and Its Officials were always presumed right and always acting out of the purest intentions, usually a concern for The Welfare Of The People. There was this thing called "self-criticism" and was done in public in Party meetings. That about your idea of the ceremony of "acknowledgement" ? Where do we find a suitable Party Meeting for this to take place ?
to re:Thomas | 3:10 p.m. May 8, 2008
Right, I owe you an apology for painting with such a broad brush. You are of
course right that this is not easy, and there are very difficult case - and your
job is a necessary one. And of course there are all sorts of people working this
job.
I wonder if you will agree, as an insider, that actions of the CPS in this case are at best questionable. Looking at this from the outside, it seems that little effort was spared in trying to find an alternative solution that would actually try to put kids' welfare first. It seems like people just wanted to get it out of their way, and go back to their routine.
I also have to say that as a homeschooling parent I'm all too aware of the horror that can ensue when CPS gets inside your life. And it does not take much, a malicious phone call, and you are on the defensive, and it is up to you to prove you are not a monster. Why do you think all homeschool families I know pay into the Home School Legal Defense Association fund ? To defend from car thefts ?
I wonder if you will agree, as an insider, that actions of the CPS in this case are at best questionable. Looking at this from the outside, it seems that little effort was spared in trying to find an alternative solution that would actually try to put kids' welfare first. It seems like people just wanted to get it out of their way, and go back to their routine.
I also have to say that as a homeschooling parent I'm all too aware of the horror that can ensue when CPS gets inside your life. And it does not take much, a malicious phone call, and you are on the defensive, and it is up to you to prove you are not a monster. Why do you think all homeschool families I know pay into the Home School Legal Defense Association fund ? To defend from car thefts ?
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