Deseret News | LDS teens injured in Arizona attack

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LDS teens injured in Arizona attack

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slysloft2 | 12:13 p.m. May 8, 2008

Where is CPS here? What were these 2 boys parents doing? Is it parental abuse for not having their boys under control? If CPS can take childern away for just a rummor, where are they here?

Educate Yourself | 12:17 p.m. May 8, 2008

Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1]

Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters.[2]

west side girl | 12:53 p.m. May 8, 2008

Perhaps some of us are bitter toward Mormons because of the way we were treated by them while growing up here in SLC. I don't approve of violence toward anyone, and I don't know all the facts here. I do know that growing up in a heavily Mormon community makes some people collossally arrogant. If you only knew what I went through growing up in the East MillCreek area forty years ago, you would understand my bitterness.

Comments continue below

No Need to be Bitter | 1:25 p.m. May 8, 2008

Yes, in any community that is predominately one religion, or one race, etc, you unfortunately can experience some feelings of arrogance. I have heard this too many times from the pulpit at General Conference. ï¿½Utah Mormonsï¿½ must do better to live their religion. The Church is very aware of how ï¿½someï¿½ Mormons act towards their neighbors and how their arrogance is then passed on to their children. It is all really very unfortunate.

However, for you to retain bitterness only harms you. Being understanding of other peopleï¿½s weaknesses is something we all should practice. If you paint all Mormons with the same wide brush that those you came in contact with, then you are doing the same thing you accuse the Mormons of doing.

Phil from Provo | 2:17 p.m. May 8, 2008

It starts with a couple of kids wearing swastikas and shooting BB guns and beating up other kids because they are Mormon and ends up with a group of Neo-Christian gainsayers with weapons walking into an LDS Ward meeting on a Sunday morning and leaving no one alive - all the while thinking that they are doing God's work. It has happened before and it could very well happen again. There will come a time when our only defense will be the Dannites. Not something to look forward to, but it is something to be ready for.

Nice Guns | 2:18 p.m. May 8, 2008

I wouldn't mind being shot at with a "soft air gun". A nice blast of soft air. What is so hateful about that?

SouthernLDS | 2:18 p.m. May 8, 2008

Westside Girl and others-try growing up Mormon in the Bible-Belt south. It isn't isolated to Salt Lake to have some people with those kinds of attitudes where one religon is so predominate, it is everywhere. I understand how you feel, but it is not just a "Mormon" behavior

jt | 2:39 p.m. May 8, 2008

Lets not jump to conclusions just yet. we do not know if it was a hate crime. We only know the side of the boys who were hurt. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The mormons are so ready to be up in arms about anything said about their religion. Lets hear both sides of the story before we say this was a "hate crime". Not saying that an assault on these boys was not done because evidence shows it was. Maybe both sides were guilty of some kind of harrassment. We will find out later.

I agree with Southern LDS | 2:41 p.m. May 8, 2008

I am from Arizona and attended a Baptist youth meeting with a friend. All was well and fine until I was asked what my last name was. I was told by the adult leader, "well, that's a very mormon name." I was no longer welcome to come to the group.

Now, am I bitter towards all Baptists because of that? Of course not. That particular woman was shallow and ignorant. Just as some of our Mormon friends are.

Anonymous | 3:32 p.m. May 8, 2008

A new temple has been announced here and old Scratch is stirring up the boiling pot of adversity toward the church and Christ..He ates anything that has to do with Christ or anything good.

Anonymous | 3:33 p.m. May 8, 2008

I mean hates.

BT in SC | 3:35 p.m. May 8, 2008

So sorry for your bad experience as a youth, West Side Girl! I do hope your interactions with LDS folks over the ensuing 40 years has given you a few chances to see them in a little different light, but I suppose we all generally see what we look for.

Utah Mormons. The term really cracks me up. I've lived in England, Norway, Maryland, Illinois, New Mexico, Nevada, California, Utah, Virginia, S.Carolina, & visited a lot more places. I've met mormons everywhere I've been, and I find they are pretty much the same everywhere. Sure, there are some idiosyncrasies, and some that do their church little credit, but in general I find decent, honest, upright folk, seeking to be Christlike in spite of a host of human weaknesses common to us all. That isn't so different. As for pushy, they seem only to want a chance to make sure they are understood. That is neither arrogance nor threatening. Given the amount of misinformation out about them, I can't fault them for that. The difference is that there are a lot more of them in Utah, so the quirks, loudmounths & fringe elements are a lot easier to spot.

To: NOT a hate crime | 3:46 p.m. May 8, 2008

Apparently, you don't know what a real hate crime is because you don't have a real education. And please, define for me 'idiotic religious beliefs'. Are those beliefs that are different from yours? Are you calling all mormons idiots? That's pretty mean-spirited. Mormons have beliefs I don't agree with, but so what? What is the intent of your post?

Anne | 4:25 p.m. May 8, 2008

I'm sure that the big hate crime of Baptists stealing Mormon children and getting away with it helped encourage this. After all if nobody does anything about the other crime this could be construed as open hunting season on all Mormons.

Anonymous | 5:53 p.m. May 8, 2008

White supremacist groups are our own countries terrorists. They need to be treated as such. They need to be stopped. They kill and hurt people. DUH! Most the time they attack people who are not protestant or not white. Hate is wrong and why should we allow these people to run around when they are a serious threat to life. They had Nazi symbols printed on their skin for crying out loud.

Anonymous | 6:44 p.m. May 8, 2008

I think it is quite amusing that some people associate assualts not being labeled as hate crimes as not getting punished. They do. They also don't associate anytime someone from a different background assaults someone from another background as a hate crime. There has to be some evidence. I know I don't want people who take their hate to the level of harming another person for kicks on the streets where I live. It is a different situation than someone getting in a fight with someone they know.

Forrest | 9:34 p.m. May 8, 2008

Folks, to have a hate crime considered a federal crime, three elements must be present: 1) Threat or use of force; 2) motivated by bias against a victim's protected characteristic such as race, religion or national origin/ethnicity; and 3) interference with the victim's participation in a Federal Protected Activity such as voting, employment, participation in any program receiving federal financial assistance, participation as a student or applicant for public school, a user of any facility of interstate commerce, or a user of any public accommodation/establishment principally engaged in selling foods or beverages for consumption on the premises. Was there interference with a Federally Protected Activity?

huh? | 11:11 p.m. May 8, 2008

what does any of the have to do with two kids who got beat up because they were mormon?

Also AZ | 11:26 p.m. May 8, 2008

To jt at 2:39- not sure what you mean by "the other side of the story" and "innocent until proven guilty". The boys that did the attacking admitted what they did, and they were also charged with underage drinking in addition to assault. The LDS kids were just sitting in a park for crying out loud. Why are some of you so anxious to blame the victims just because they're LDS? Quite frankly, in my opinion that doesn't make some of you much better than the idiot kids with the swastikas tattooed on their hands!

alex from england | 3:15 a.m. May 9, 2008

how sad that this sort of thing should be going on in the world.I came from a country where racial discrimination caused heartache and I would not like to see that happen anywhere.Lets be tolerant and understanding and the world and our lives would be a lot better

From the East | 6:55 a.m. May 9, 2008

Early posts suggest that all crime is based on hate. Not true. Much white collar crime is based on greed, as the criminals do not hate their victims, they just want their money. Other crimes are also based on intent. Burglars do not hate their targets, they want their stuff. The pick pocket and purse thief's only interest is a quick buck. Identity thieves have no clue about who they are stealing from. Drug-dealers don't necessarily hate their customers. DUI manslaughter is not based on hate.
Intent is very important, and should absolutely be considered as part of due process. If someone tried to murder you, but only succeeded to slightly bruise you, they should absolutely be punished more harshly than the person who put you in the hospital after ramming your car while DUI. These boys precipitated this attack because their victims observed different beliefs. Not because of some perceived wrong, self defense or even retaliation. This was a "hate" based crime and should be prosecuted as such.
Oh, and about the "Utah Mormon" comments, I'm a Utah transplant out east. LDS out here are no different than in Utah...

Conservative Utah and Hate Laws | 7:27 a.m. May 9, 2008

Most conservative Utahn's are uncomfortable with hate crimes legislation. I wonder how this will change now that LDS may themselves become targets.

Its sad that people who call themselves the people of god have to be victimized themselves before they see the light. People who claim this distinction shouldn't have to wait until they are victimized, they should love thier neighboor enough to see it for their sake.

jt | 9:20 a.m. May 9, 2008

well, i beg to differ on being idiotic. pretty silly of a thing to say. isn't that discrimination? people all over the world have been discriminated for one thing or another. heck, i get discriminated because i am a born again christian but it does not stop me from bathing in Gods glory nor do i run and make a big deal out of it. Jesus was persecuted for who He was. He went on and did what His father wanted.

Bill Sherman | 10:48 a.m. May 9, 2008

I think this is my fourth time to "Add your comment", and I can't seem to get them on the net. I am from Groves, Texas and was visited by two wonderful Sisters from the LDS church. I had several comments about what happened while they were here, and the last comment about the subject on being assalted while being on mission. I told the truth and was very accurate about the facts. I don't think the comments were abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or cantained URLs. I gave my E-mail address (optional). I don't have to tell a newspaper that the truth will set you free, do I? I would like to tell my story just like every on else. Surly its not because I am a TEXAN. I hope it is not because of my spelling cause it ant that good. I will be 67 in June. You can't discrimantate against me cause of that, you know. Oh well life will go on just the same. Have a great day and God bless on Missonarys everwhere.

NOT a hate crime | 10:55 a.m. May 9, 2008

In the above post by "jt", we see another example of idiotic religious beliefs.

In line with comments made by "Conservative Utah and Hate Laws", I agree that it would be nice to see the Mormons finally jump on board to recognize the seriousness and damage of hate crimes though. Too bad it wasn't until some of their own were attacked until they woke up to it.

TheMadNuker | 2:41 p.m. May 9, 2008

RE:AZ; It was the "Jews" fault for being too Jewish
and not minding their own business, in the good old
days of "The New Germany". Yes, we hear the faint sounds of "Goosestepping", once again! It's the Mormons fault this time. Watch out for the trains,or
buses. Wait a minute, did'nt Texas use buses?

RE: Blind Hate | 3:01 p.m. May 9, 2008

I also grew up on the west side, and we were afraid to be arrogant because we would get hurt. Utah County is full of arrogance and "holier than now" attitude. A lot of the L.D.S. need to come down a little, or we will be reading stories similar to this a little more often.

Always be a target | 6:21 p.m. May 9, 2008

To RE: Blind Hate - 3:01 p.m.

It doesn't matter how nice Mormons are, we'll still be targets for violence.

Bitter individuals, who lives are full of bitterness and jealousy will always blame others for their problems.

Anonymous | 12:27 p.m. May 10, 2008

To Always be a target,

Right back at ya' -- Arrogant Mormons with a persecution complex will always blame others for their problems.

Quote | 1:00 p.m. May 10, 2008

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation" (Herbert Spencer).

Hypocrisy on display | 1:30 p.m. May 10, 2008

The comment of "Anonymous 12:27 p.m." is so hypocritical, it makes me want to throw up.

LDS Church bashers delight in going on-line and attacking the LDS Church until their blue in the face. They cry and pout about every single LDS Church member who has ever said or done anything negative. They ruthlessly go after LDS leaders, pouting about how the big, bad LDS Church won't let them cuss on Temple Square. They mock and ridicule anything and everything the LDS Church says or does. And then, these people have the dumb nerve to accuse LDS people of having a "persecution complex?"

HYPOCRITES!

Anonymous | 8:23 p.m. May 11, 2008

There would be no reason to try so hard to convince LDS people that they have negative in their members, leaders, and doctrines if LDS people didn't run around CLAIMING that they are morally superior to everyone else, throwing it in everyone's face that they are "the ONLY true Church," and sending out 50,000 missionaries to tell everyone that all other Churches are "apostate" and "abominations" in God's eyes!

It is the epitome of hypocrisy to act like you are superior and then complain about being persecuted when people point out that you are NOT superior!

So who is the real hypocrite?

Ian in Missouri | 9:40 a.m. June 10, 2008

Anonymous, people will see what they want to see, just like yourself. Yes, there certainly are some arrogant members of the church, I served my mission with two of the most arrogant guys in the world. Certainly arrogance is not inherant to Mormons though. We send missionaries out into the world not to "tell everyone that all other Churches are "apostate" and "abominations" in God's eyes!" but we send them out because we beleive we are commanded to preach the gospel, just like the early apostles were commanded to do.

Actually, I have found that the most arrogant group of people I ever met were a group of Born again Christans that came to our door one time and began denouncing us because we were Mormon. I have never heard a missionary or Mormon go at any other religion like they did.

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