Deseret News | Jessop says Jeffs to blame for FLDS troubles

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Jessop says Jeffs to blame for FLDS troubles

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KPrice | 5:21 p.m. May 7, 2008

I feel strongly that my past post has a great deal of significance to the arguments being expressed. I was fortunate to be taken from a horribly abusive home situation and put into a government run and sponsored program. Foster care can and usually is a warm, loving, and wonderful experience for those recieving and those giving the care. Many comments posted seem to believe that foster care is some sort of dark evil hell. Mine wasn't. Care that I can now give to others in need isn't.
I agree with those who have previously stated that if no wrongs were being perpetrated by the leaders of the FLDS in TX then they would have stepped forward and lovingly and proudly claimed their wife/wives and children. The women would have had no difficulty stating their correct names and ages and identifying their biological children. The facts seem to be quite fluid in this situation. Facts provided by those not forthcoming should be suspect. Why would a grown adult woman have to ask her husband how old she was?

Susie | 7:01 p.m. May 7, 2008

I've just finded reading the "Bishop's List" and gracious. Several 16 year old wifes and I was surprised or not surprised by the number of families who didn't have many daughters between the age of 15 and 17.

SoJoMom | 7:41 a.m. May 8, 2008

To justthefactsmaam,

You said that the 2007 Bishop records seized from the FLDS compound are true because they had no way of knowing that this could/would happen and therefore the records couldn't have been altered (as stated in your comment on page 1).

You cannot say without a shadow of doubt that they did not have an opportunity to change the records. Their prophet, Warren Jeffs, who the FLDS church supported while on the run, was a wanted man for a similar crime for a long time before he was arrested. They probably didn't know when it would happen but I am sure that they had the suspicion that this could/would happen.

I'm not trying to say that you are wrong in your belief that FLDS members did not alter the records because IF they had nothing to hide there was no need to alter the records. I just wanted to point out the fact that it is a POSSIBILITY the records were altered.

Comments continue below

Leadership | 9:29 a.m. May 8, 2008

Jessop is right, this is all Warren Jeff's doing. Leaders should be held personally responsible for the crimes committed under their watch and leadership. Since Jeffs wielded such authority, he should be personally prosecuted for each crime of abuse carried out in his organization.

And the same holds true for the LDS Church. The Prophet and his Apostles should be held personally accountable for crimes committed in their organization by members representing the Church or holding an office in the Church.

This means when a Bishop molests a member of his ward, the Prophet should be held accountable. When missionaries destroy property of another religion, the Prophet should be held accountable. When youth get harmed or killed on a youth activity, or if they set a forest ablaze, the Prophet should be held responsible.

Leadership comes with great power, and with that power comes great responsibility. If you don't want or cannot handle that responsibility, then you have no business being a leader.

Re Leadership | 9:48 a.m. May 8, 2008

Does personal responsibility mean anything to you? Each person needs to be held responsibile for their actions. If in fact their leader (Jeffs) forced underage marriage or encouraged statutory rape then he should be held responsibile for those requirements/teachings. If they teach it, fine hold them responsible. If they teach the opposite then how can they be held responsibile?

Rattle | 4:20 p.m. May 8, 2008

Don't trash Carolyn Jessop's book until you've read it. She isn't "grubbing for money." She's trying to support her children, six of whom are still minors. She gets no child support from their father. Better she should work and sell her story than be forced to accept welfare and food stamps! Believe me, she has earned every penny she's made from the sale of her book.

Steve | 1:42 p.m. May 9, 2008

People should be free to practice their religion, polygmy is part of the true church doctrine as revealed by prophet joseph smith.

joseph smith | 5:54 p.m. May 9, 2008

Steve you say,
" People should be free to practise their religion,polygmy is part of the true church doctine as revealed by the prophet joseph smith"

Thats the problem with the FLDS and LDS in believing a lie,this joseph smith is a fraud.You followers of this religion are brainwashed !!

Ready for Firing Squad | 1:13 a.m. May 10, 2008

When people come from other counties or even other states with the intention of breaking the law and rape children, I just wish we still had firing squads for capitol punishment. We're getting to the point in Texas of allowing anything and everything under sexual freedom, religious freedom, etc. If you break the law. You'll answer to the law. I have no problem being called a religious bigot if child rapists are put away for good with their cell mate Bubba.

Leadership | 11:00 a.m. May 10, 2008

The personal responsibility of individual members of these churches is circumvented by teachings and membership requirements of strict obedience to the Church leaders. Even if the leaders (prophets, seers, revelators) are wrong or abusive in their positions, members are required to obey. If they do not obey, they are disciplined (disfellowshipped, ostracized, excommunicated, or other punishments and sanctions). Because these "prophets" are believed to "speak for God," their words and commands are expected carry the same force as if God was speaking. Because of these beliefs and policies, the leaders of these churches (LDS, FLDS and others) must be held personally responsible for the abuses, murders, fraud, and other crimes committed in their congregations. The FLDS practice of illegal sexual activity with underage girls (and boys, apparently) illustrates this, as does the Mountain Meadows Massacre for the LDS. These abuses and murders were either commanded by the leaders, or (in the case of MMM) "plausible deniability" was arranged. Either way, leaders are not only responsible for the commands and policies they establish, but they are also responsible for establishing CONTROLS to ensure that abuses and crimes do not happen in their organizations! Hence, legally and morally, leaders are culpable!

Jeffs | 5:43 p.m. May 10, 2008

I still find it odd that Jeffs is in Jail as accomlice to rape but the actual rapist has only recently been charged. Isn't that backwards, or was Jeffs just an easy conviction because he looks so creepy and if the Husband/rapist gets off then Warren will be let go? but will at least have had some time behind bars?

And for all that lack of freedom, how exactly did the victim find time to get pregnant by another man? Why was that man not charged with statutory rape as well since she was still so young?

wondering | 3:53 a.m. May 11, 2008

I wonder how many of the "positive" blogs for the FLDS or "anti" child protective services blogs are coming from FLDS members?

elizabeth | 3:02 p.m. May 17, 2008

These are not plural "marriages". There is one wife. All the others are single women collecting welfare as such. We, the taxpayer, are carrying the financial load for these lecherous men to collect money from all the unwed mothers they impregnate. The women are victims of this religion; the men should have been arrested.

Shoshani | 3:07 p.m. May 17, 2008

Thank you, Carolyn!! I am very glad you escaped and I applaud your courage. You go girl!!

Jolly | 10:13 a.m. June 2, 2008

To Get a Clue.
Did you get educated in the same town as Carolyn?
Are you a member of FLDS?
If you are, your appauling grammer, spelling and bigotted comments, are proof that the community was sadly lacking in its duty to educate its members correctly.
This is a minor crime compared to the horrors Carolyn describes as being part of the life experience of most members.
A rounded out education gives its pupils a dignified view of the world and its inhabitants.
This is sadly lacking in many closed religions.
The fact that she left loved ones and her roots before she experienced true human compassion and love shows how wrong the teachings of the FLDS have become.
Just look at how difficult it is for Carolyn to talk of her experience. It has been one hell of a journey for her to become a responsible and brave mother.
Her children will always love and respect her for it. Even if its hard for them to come to terms with initially.
Lets become a society where no one feels afraid to ask for help to escape what ever ails us or others.

FactsMaam....... | 2:53 p.m. June 5, 2008

Justthefactsmaam spends A LOT of time on this board defending the FLDS and dissing Carolyn Jessop. #1..you have way too much time on your hands. #2...it is obvious that you are an FLDS sympathizer and take geat pains and pleasure in defaming Ms. Jessop and making zillions of excuses for their lifestyle. #3...the FLDS lifestyle Betty was raised in and her desire for her father's acceptance has really caused emotional conflict in her. I don't doubt for a minute she has made accusations against her mother. Children in divorce/custody battles have done the same. At the age of 13-18 is when she was most impressionable...those teenage years.Those years are hard enough for a girl in a stable environment so her situation must have been quite traumatic despite her mother's best intentions. With Merril's power I'm sure she is completely under his thumb now and completely indoctrinated. Bless Carolyn for having the instinct to ESCAPE when she did. She desplayed was a mother is in every sense of the word!! No one will ever change the minds of those bound to defending the FLDS lifestyle. No need even trying!!

Reader | 11:27 a.m. July 4, 2008

I had only to listen to the FLDS women speak on television to realize that they are damaged people. Further, indoctrinating women to believe that they must be subservient to their husbands is mental abuse no matter how you cut it. And, not allowing children to have an education that would enable them to pass state exams is child abuse. That tactic takes away their freedom to choose to live successfully in the outside world. The women and children of the FLDS sect are mentally and emotionally abused by any standards. A dog who is abused reaches a point beyond which it stops protesting from fear and despair. We humans are the same. Only the toughest manage to throw off their shackles and escape. If life is so good inside the sect, why have so many who were removed during the raid chosen not to return?

Mom in Texas | 2:14 p.m. July 8, 2008

My in-laws live in Hurricane Utah. I heard much of what Warren Jeff's was doing to FLDS members long before I had heard of Carolyn Jessop and years before 2003. My mother-in-law was telling me about Jeff's "reassigning men's wives". My in-laws are not FLDS and are not Mormons. If they were hearing about these happenings before Carolyn escaped I believe they are true. The people who are accusing Carolyn of lying are ignoring one small fact. This is the United States of America. No one should be told who they are going to marry no matter what that persons age. I have read other books about FLDS members. I have no problem when a man or women makes decision for themselves be it marriage or a divorce. However, I do have a problem when men, women, and children are forced to marry or leave a spouse or parent based on what a "prophet" says.

Deianera | 9:04 p.m. July 9, 2008

I have just finished reading Carolyn Jessop's book. She is a woman of remarkable courage. What people of this country where so many can take for granted that they have rights and are safe don't realize is, that people like her rarely live to tell their tale. I have met Mormons; they are for the most part very good, family oriented, conservative people. There are also fundamentalist Mormons who love all of their wives and children equally and do NOT sponge off of the government to do so. As long as everyone in such a marriage are willing, of age, and happy, it's all right. The two issues I am disturbed to see NO one discussing thus far in this forum are these: one, the tremendous disparity between life as it ought to be lived in this country and the harsh realities of actually being able to do so, even when one is unprepared and untaught; and the outright BLASPHEMY of any faith claiming that God supports child molestation & abandonment, amongst other things. Anybody??!

mcgin1 | 8:11 p.m. July 22, 2008

I just spent the last 30 minutes reading the comments of others. We do indeed live in America which affords all of us the right to free speech. I read Carolyns book, and only felt admiration for this brave lady, she deserves so much more than money from this book. It is only to obvious to me that many of the negative comments are from FLDS members. I am pretty sure anyone with any intelligence at all can, and will come to the same conclusion. I appauld her courage, and thank her for the education I recieved while reading her book. I am so going to encourage my friends and family to buy this book. This book only confirms what I suspected for a long time. My prayers go to Carolyn, and her family and all the women and children victimized by those animals. Carolyn your very brave. Some how I think Carolyn would look at the ugly comments and find compassion and sorrow for you.

angry at ignorance | 3:51 a.m. Jan. 5, 2009

Justthefacts man...seriously what does it matter about mathmatical averages? Even if there are only 4 counts of statutory rape or whatever bull you wrote...it happened!! your average age differences don't matter either. the point is women are being forced into marriage and sex. and there are women married to men 20 years their senior! They have to have sex with their husbands in order to get necessities for their children. They live in a police state and no matter how many "facts" you pull out it doesn't change it or justify it.
AND
Carolyn Jessop wrote the book in hopes of giving women courage to escape desperate situations. That is all they know and it is scary.
Get your facts right and open up your mind. Why don't you go live with those psychos? You think she is a liar and an exaggerater? You seem to like the lifestyle of total control and marriage to young girls. Go live there. Get your self a nice fourteen year old wife.

Katey | 4:15 p.m. Jan. 24, 2009

Yeah, how dare a woman with eight children (one disabled) want to do something that may generate money to put food on their tables and enable them to lead a happy life? Single mothers who left horrible situations in order to better themselves and their children are truly more shameful than a cult-like society that condones sexism, child abuse, and spouse abuse, as well as tax evasion, abuse of the wellfare system and more.

And yes, I am being sarcastic. We live in a capitalist society, and she needs to generate a living with whatever she's got. I think she and any other woman who can turn their abuse from the FLDS into a way to enable them to live on the outside should be applauded. That is the definition of overcoming adversity.

If anyone disagrees, you go live in one of these communities as your husband's property and see how you fair.

Diana | 12:56 p.m. April 13, 2009

To the first Anonymous post from May 6, 2008---Carolyn Jessop has 8 children to take care of---she needs money to put a roof over her and her children's heads. She ain't going to do it well on a teacher's salary that's for sure. And, another thing, she is writing about what she knows (with a ghost writer). If another author writes what s/he knows, is s/he exploiting the topic too? For instance, did our president Obama exploit his culture by writing about it? Ms. Jessop is doing society a favor by educating and enlightening us with a different perspective of a different culture.

Outraged | 2:34 p.m. April 16, 2009

I am completely disgusted by what I have been reading. Average of this and average of that. If abuse happened to one, ONE child, then it was one to many and the price should be paid. I have read Carolyn Jessop's book and for anyone to remotely attack this woman's character proves your ignorance. What she has been through and has had the courage to do left me speechless. She is an amazing woman and mother.

Anyone who is standing up for the FLDS and saying it is their right to practice their religion is doing nothing but using the word "religion" as a shield. How much more evidence do Warren Jeffs followers need? I'm calling you (FLDS members) FOLLOWERS of Warren Jeffs, because that's what you are. You are not followers of any God.

For them to not educate these children on common knowledge (man on the moon, dinosaurs, more importantly their rights) proves that it is a cult and they are completely trying to brainwash their members.

Anonymous | 9:58 a.m. April 21, 2009

I don't understand how any of you can comfortably attack Carolyn Jessop. You know what, maybe some of her story is slightly exaggerated or perhaps she did recall some things imperfectly. I mean, good grief, she is trying to recount the story of her entire life--a period of over thirty years. How well would YOU do trying to remember every conversation, every incident, every teeny tiny little detail over thirty years' time? The point is, there is absolutely no question that she led a life of trauma, abuse and fear within her small FLDS community. She never ONCE claims that all members of the community were evil, that all the men were abusive or rapists. She talks about good, honest, hard-working people, people who she loved and was very close to. She had friends, family members, happy memories. She loved her religion and had incredibly strong faith. And she mentions SEVERAL times that her husband, Merril, was an extreme case compared to many kind, fair, loving men and husbands in the community. She is a brave woman with an amazing story, and even if you don't personally believe the things she says happened to her

Anonymous | 10:05 a.m. April 21, 2009

you have absolutely ZERO right to tear her down. She's been through enough. And for those of you who wonder why Betty went back if Carolyn is telling the truth about everything--

THINK, people. Do you know how hard it is to throw away everything you have known for your entire life? To toss it all aside after 13 years and embrace a completely new, foreign culture? Imagine waking up one morning to find yourself in a foreign country where you don't know anyone, don't speak the language, don't understand the customs.

Anonymous | 10:06 a.m. April 21, 2009

Would you just say Hmm, weird, well, time to get on with my life. Or would you try desperately to find your way home? Betty was completely lost outside her community, away from her friends and family and everything she knew. She was her father's favorite daughter and so was spared much of the abuse that other siblings suffered. And it says a LOT for Carolyn and her story that by the time Betty did return, she and her mother were on good terms. She recognized what her mother had fought for, what she was trying to give them. And she appreciated and loved her for it. But she wasn't ready for it, mentally or emotionally, and she very well may never be. Carolyn never said it was impossible to find happiness and joy within her FLDS community. But personally, she was placed in a situation where those things were unavailable for her, and after 17 years, she had had enough.

Anonymous | 10:06 a.m. April 21, 2009

If you can't understand why Betty returned, just remember what it finally took for Carolyn herself to try to leave in the first place. Imagine a husband who believes his own CHILD is being cursed by God with terminal cancer because his wife is not "in harmony" with him. That is what it finally took to get Carolyn out of there. It would have taken something at least that significant for Betty to be able to make the mental and emotional adjustments necessary to endure and become accustomed to life in an entirely different world.

Sheryl | 5:05 p.m. June 22, 2009

I've read Carolyn Jessop's book and just finished Flora Jessop's newer book, Church of Lies. Now, either you are in total denial, or, in fact, Carolyn Jessop's book is true and must believe what's written, as disgusting as these men are. Flora Jessop's story supports what Carolyn said, although Flora never mentions her name.?? It is a shame those kids in Texas were returned to their "mothers". Did anyone bother to make sure the mothers all took DNA tests to prove their biological connection. I hope the state of Texas billed that cult for the costs. Oh wait, they'd use their fraudulent welfare checks to pay for it. El Dorado never should have allowed that cult to set up shop! Their permits were for a "hunting reserve". Irony. El Dorado looked the other way ... way too much.

Tracy | 2:33 p.m. Oct. 6, 2009

I have nothing but respect for a mother removing her kids from abuse and harm. The strength Carolyn found is amazing. I want to give her a big hug. She did the right thing. I'm just sorry that there are many years of abuse they will never get back. I wish you and your family the best.

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