Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

Return to article »

Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
LdG

Freeman, you aren't LDS are you? Because I don't think that BYU (of recent years) really stands a chance in that contest. :)

Jon

I wouldn't care if Catholics or Mormons started praying for my soul or doing ordinances for me after I die. I could use all the help I can get. By making an issue out of this, all the Catholics are doing are legitimizing the practice.

Truth Sayer

The Apostle Paul never taught baptism for the dead and "endless geneologies" were also condemned because there was no point in either practice. Why? Because Christ's supreme sacrifice negatated the laws and rituals of the Cld Covenant---all such practices were a waste of time!

The atonement of Christ is all we need for Salvation--religion just adds to God's word more unneeded laws and rituals.

This is what separates true Christianity from "religion" (as opposed to Christianity). In Christ, "it is finished." With religion it's an endless (and pointless) treadmill of works.

Just accept Salvation through Christ folks---baptism for the dead is just one of many "dead works" that help no one! Do your research (very easy to prove that baptism for the dead was only practiced by cults and sects that were not true Christianity.

Believe what you wish about baptism for the dead, but if you would stop being spoonfed by religious bondage and do your own research on the topic, you will easily find out that the practice was not a Christian practice at all!

just wondering

So, If Mormons believe in the resurrection, why don't you guys wait till the dead rise to decide for themselves if they want to be Mormons?

RE: Anonymous

"Vatican Officials need to mind their own business''...

Are you joking?

ajarizona

I suspect the Catholics greatest backlash will not come from the Mormons, but from those Catholics who will also be shut out from doing their family
trees. Most will find it difficult to take trips to Italy, Germany, Poland etc. to search records.

If you want to have a ceremony for my soul, by whatever means, spinning three times, bouncing a ball off your head and eating rice cakes, on and off
for three days, or whatever, and you feel by doing so you are helping my eternal soul, well, then, knock yourself out.

To me, I may feel you're wasting your time, but I am certainly not going to be offended. Rather, I would be flattered that you cared enough about me to
care, misguided as I may find you to be.

The names to the Genealogical data-base are not automatically submitted for Temple work, families must submit them.

People from all over the World use this data base, a free gift from the Mormons to anybody who needs to use it, for whatever reason, and they do, by the millions.

Catholics, Jews, Protestants etc. hold conventions in SLC to use this great data base.

Grow up, Rome.

pj

Nice try truth sayer!

Your argument is weak and you still cannot explain,
John 3:5 with 1 Cor. 15:29, let alone Malachi.

The hearts have been turned to the Fathers and the Fathers to the children. It's rolling forth, baby.

Just relax in your ignorance and don't you fret one iota, for even you will have your work done and you will be able to exercise your own agency to choose.

Oh, and one more thing, Faith without works is dead and we are indeed saved by grace, AFTER all we can do.

good day PJ

Carol

When my LDS son was dying of cancer some years ago an elderly non-LDS couple came to him in his place of business asking if it was alright if they placed his name in their church prayer circle, My son's response was yes they could. He said to me later, "Mom, faith is faith and I thought it very touching they cared enough for me to do that"

And in response to an earlier post- would I care if the FLDS rebaptized my deceased family members? Nope- I would not consider it necessary but I would also know it would not do any harm.

And regardless of what faith or none at all, I am grateful the FHL archives are open to any one who wants to know about their heritage.

The Afterlife Difference

I think much of the problem with this lies in the LDS belief that everyone (minus the very few who become Sons of Perdition) will have an opportunity to accept the Gospel after this life. Even those LDS who were baptized and fell away will continue to have opportunities to repent and progress after death. This is without a doubt my very favorite LDS doctrine and I believe is an extremely compassionate doctrine reflecting a compassionate God. We do not believe our final reward is based soley on this life. We believe this life is in reality only a blip in comparison to the pre-existence and afterlife - both of which include decisions and progression that affect what we are to eventually become. I have always struggled with the alternate belief that this life is all one has - what a narrow belief desregarding individual circumstances that only God can judge. But this difference is largely at the heart of this dispute. LDS believe they are assisting deceased of all backgrounds in their CONTINUING journey and decisions. Others believe the journey and accompanying eternal decisions have been made while on earth and are complete. How to bridge that is key.

I wouldn't mind

I wouldn't mind if someone from another faith posthumously baptized me. I personally believe it wouldn't make a difference one way or another. A few on here have claimed the LDS church would make a big deal if another church did what we do. We wouldn't care. Try us. We believe our baptism is done with the proper authority and anything else would be a gesture of love, but take none effect.

We also believe the deceased will choose for themselves to accept or reject the ordinance. Therefore, we are not making decisions for them. We are simply giving them a chance to receive something they weren't able to receive during their time on earth.

This doctrine may sound strange, but I won't apologize for it. I believe it's true, and I believe it shows the mercy of an all-loving Father in Heaven.

Yes or No? Love an Answer

I am LDS and do not have the answer to this question but honestly wonder:

If the LDS Church were asked to provide copies of identifying deceased member records (birth, blessing, marriage, sealing, death, etc.)for the purpose of FLDS plural marriage sealings, or similar Scientology or Wicken ordinances, WOULD THE CHURCH WILLINGLY AND KNOWINGLY PROVIDE THOSE? I know the Church would not make an issue of that occuring in general without their assistance - but would the Church actually provide records and documents to knowingly assist in that? The Catholic Church is not demanding that baptisms for the dead stop. They are simply requiring that records not be provided to actively assist in the ordinance. Rather than the defensiveness I am reading, I would love to hear whether we believe the Church would actively and knowingly assist in FLDS, Scientology or Wicken cermonies for LDS deceased? (and rememeber, the Catholic Church veiws us no differently than we view those groups)

Anonymous

what gives the mormon church the right to do anything with these records other than to make them available for genealogy. the catholic church is well within their right do say and do what they want with their records. it is an invasion of privacy. i was raised catholic then became a mormon. their marriages are for time only. maybe they don't want the prospect of an eternal marriage. that is their right. how would mormons feel if some church from russia decided to butt in like the mormons do. my experience of the church is, mormons can only see what view point, theirs.

zzman

Use the records for family history/geneological research and stop insulting the dead. The Mormon Church oversteps on this one. Stop insulting people by performing Mormon ordinances and respect the dead--be they Jews, Protestants, Catholics or whatever. It's pretty simple! Seems that a few Mormon posters above understand how insulting this is.

DRJ

So what...who cares? There are a lot more important things in the world to worry about right now than who's baptizing whom. Religion is all faith based. No one from any religion can show absolute irrefutable proof that any one religion is the "true church of god." It's all about what each person believes. As long as you're comfortable with what you believe, then so be it. Just don't try to force your beliefs on others who are not interested.

re: yes or no

I think you know the answer. The Church would not want to knowingly assist the efforts of a cult to baptize LDS members.

I wonder if all these people who say they wouldnt mind if another church baptized them posthumously would feel the same way if the Catholic Church made it a practice to send priests to the deathbeds of LDS people to perform baptismal rites without consent, as an expression of love and faith.

Alan

Being LDS, I don't agree with the Catholic church's position on this matter. However, LDS people need to be careful before being offended at this action. LDS baptism for the dead basically says that baptisms performed by other faiths are less than valid. That's taught specifically by the LDS church, based on the concept that one must have authority given by God to act in His name. Perhaps the Catholic leadership feels that giving names to LDS people undermines the weight of Catholic baptism. (In the LDS Church, we have policy and tradition that makes sure nothing takes the place of or replaces a temple marriage, for the same reason.)

If we react angrily towards the Catholic church, then is baptism for the dead in temples really the gift of love we claim it is? We, like those we believe are waiting for work to be done on their behalf, may need to exercise patience, faith, hope and tolerance.

Anonymous

I'm LDS and if some other group wanted to rebaptize me after I am dead (Church of Satan or FLDS or whoever), go ahead, it won't mean anything. Only baptism by the proper authority has meaning. So the argument that the LDS would get mad if someone else were doing the same to us is invalid.

Kim Greenland

The work for the the ancestors is a great work. It has to be done now or later. When the Mormon church only amounted 1 million members after the II ww they went to the European countries and got permission to microfilm the churchbooks. In return the countries received a copy. At that time the Mormon Church was a curiosum.
When the Church now as a visible actor in religion seeks permission with the big religions there is an opposition. They must be nerveous in one way or another to condone the principle. Even it is a principle for concern for those who have lived without beeing ex. baptized in the past.

re: Non Mormon

Yes, you are trying to speak for the dead. You are the one being arrogant here. Let's speak metaphorically. Imagine death is a big desert. nobody wants to go there but it's inevitable. everybody ends up in the desert either able to progress to a desirable destination or to suffer. But in order to progress they need food. We are placing food at the edge of the desert (we can't go into the desert without suffering death). They can take the food and move on or not. It's their choice. But the food has mushrooms and you find that offensive (because mushrooms are vile). So you are trying to compel us to not put the food out because it is disrespectful to those in the desert. The desert people are completely unaffected by our mushroom laden food unless they take it, but you don't even want to afford them the opportunity one way or another. We at least provide them a choice. You do not. It is you who is arrogant.

Hannahsrock1

As an LDS member, this is one of those times when I simply say "If you don't believe in proxy ordinations, then why should you care if we do them?" If it's a matter of protecting parrish privacy that's one thing but if it's a matter of not sharing information which, in large part, is public anyway, that is another.

This will strain relations between the two churches for sure and the LDS church will gather the information it seeks another way.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments