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Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Bill G

Decider of Dominator: "Turn that around: what gives Mormons the right to make a religious decision for those who have died and were not of the LDS faith, especially if one did not choose to be part of the LDS faith when alive?"

Nobody has given mormons, or anyone else, the right to make a religious decision for those who have died. What makes you think this? It is clearly stated that anyone baptized posthumously must either accept or decline it. It is their own free will to choose. No living or dead mormon, catholic or anyone else can make that decision for them.


Re: to Julie

The problem with your argument is that many of these records are hundreds of years old. It's not like we're talking about the Church of Satan baptizing Grandma Beth or Uncle John (as far as I understand it the only way that a deceased person can have this work done for them is if an actual FAMILY MEMBER submits the name). And I don't think that very many people would really care too much if some fanatical "cult" were digging up old records that are hundreds of years old and performing religous ordinance for them. I have an interest in MY ancestors even though I'm not catholic.

Sue

I have to admit that I was saddened by the news story this morning. Up to now I have been grateful that a partnership between LDS microfilming and Catholic granting access has blessed the entire world. Without LDS microfilming the parish records, they would have been lost forever. Without the cooperation of Catholic officials, the great genealogical work would not be accomplished.

In our Family History Center, the patron who utilizes the German parish registers the most is a Catholic priest who does genealogical research for others. Perhaps the Catholic church could microfilm their own records and make them available to the world--bypassing the LDS church?

European ecclesiastical history may confuse the baptism issue for some, where non-believers were forced to become baptized for face death. Simply having a proxy baptism in the temple, does NOT make the deceased person a MEMBER of the LDS Church! The dead have a CHOICE to accept or reject this ordinance. All that is recorded is that the ordinance was performed, not whether it was accepted. We have an obligation to baptize those of our ancestry, but this does not to force them to be members..that is their choice.


AZLDSGuy

I am a former Catholic and a grateful convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have not a single negative thing to say about the Catholic Church in any way. As an ex-member it would not be appropriate. However being LDS, I understand both sides of the debate and can see how those less learned would make disparaging comments.

If some one decided to try to baptize me posthumously it would mean nothing, they lack the proper authority for it to be recognized by myself or the Lord. So I say go for it.

As for closing the records it seems like a double standard from those outside of the Church. If we closed our records, then we would be attacked no matter the reason. However, we are attacked because the Catholics chose to close their records to us. This is a very typical double standard from those in the world. We are attacked for the actions of others.

I will go and do.. not sit and stew.

Ernie

Non Mormon, No one is forcing anything on anybody. If by chance the LDS Church is true, where is the harm? You emphatecally call us arrogant for trying to help other? If you claim that you know we do not pocess the truth, who then is the arrogant one?

Wyman

How unfortunate for all the genealogists in the world, most of whom are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even though information on these individuals can be found in many other data bases, it is unfortunate that this specific information will not become part of the growing, interconnected, worldwide data bases that help people find their ancestors in their quest to understand more clearly who they are, and know more about their family history. If the Catholic Church believes itself as being Christs official representative instution on earth, what other people, as believers also in Christ, do with their family genealogy information should be of no concern to the Fathers of the Church, even if they dont believe in the practice of baptism for the dead as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:29, a practice which apparently did not stop Paul from preaching his understanding of the Gospel of our Lord, and using this practice as an example of how important it is to make sure everyone hears Christs saving message.

Agree

I agree with Mike A. 11:50 a.m. After all, what right do the Mormons have to express their opinion on subjects related pertaining ligious practices, especially on the Deseret News website?

Catholic

Have to agree, by the look of these comments many LDS dont understand.

1. Sharing church records for those who wish to learn about their ancesters is wonderful, but the purpose of LDS research is to re-baptize members of another faith into Mormonism...just in case. LDS claim the right by saying the dead are ancestors (even if remotely related), but what about the concerns of the direct descendants? The Jewish people were profoundly offended, and I cant blame them.

2. For those who claim that they are not offended if a Catholic lights a candle for them or prays for them, then great. Were not offended if you pray for us either. But there is no comparison. Baptism is an ordinance, not a prayer.

3. Paul didn't say what shall we do which are baptized for the dead, he said they, and his point was not to advocate the practice, but to illustrate the point of resurrection. Paul wasn't performing baptisms for the dead. Baptism for the dead was a heretical practice performed by at least one apostate group (Marcionites @150 AD) from the mainstream Catholic faith. Do you still not undertand why it is offensive to Catholics?

Kaitlyn

Travis is completely correct. They have the right to withhold their records if they like; it'll slow things down for now, but it's not that long until all records and all history will be open to us. Everyone will be offered the chance for baptism, some are just going to have to wait longer because of this. The work will go forth, no matter who tries to stand in its way.

And no, the Church doesn't release the records of /living/ members, because those records can be abused to harrass people. However, the records of our dead /are/ available, for anyone to access . . . on our family history websites . . . funny coincidence there . . .

(count me among those who wouldn't be bothered if I were rebaptised -- or unbaptised -- after my death)

Gain some clarity here people

What if Huckabee went around converting dead momons.

Why can't we let the dead rest in peace.

Surely a fair God will allow those who have passed through the veil a chance at the gospel and all it's rites and rituals if someone on earth forgot to do it?

Quit sweating the politics.

The Catholic Church sees us a kooks anyway.

AZLDSGuy

agree - What Rights??? hmmm the same God given rights that you have and share. The right to choose and to speak freely. I respect your choices please be an adult and share the same respect.

mom

I think the majority of responders are missing the point. The mormon practice is disgusting and appears arrogant. I am not Catholic, but I don't believe I have ever heard of them attempting to convert dead mormons by baptising them. Why should the Catholics (or ANY self respecting entity) assist mormons in this bizarre practice?

Marilyn

I am LDS. I have a friend who is Catholic and suffering with MS. In 2000 I went to Israel with my husband. While visiting the Wailing Wall, I wrote my friend's name on a piece of paper and pushed it into a hole in the wall, just as others were doing. A prayer is a prayer is a prayer. God hears them all. It was a labor of love and of faith. When I told my friend what I had done she was grateful. Baptism of those who have passed on is another demonstration of love and faith. The Church is blessing people, according to their (our) beliefs.I believe the Pope needs to rethink his decision.

Plausibility of baptising all

Someone earlier mentioned that it was implausible for the church to baptize for the dead everyone who ever lived. Estimates of this number are on the order of 50 to 100 billion people, so MATHEMATICALLY speaking, if 100 billion people needed to be baptized, and each temple could do 100 ordinances per hour, then in order to get the ordinances of every person ever lived done in the time period of ONE CENTURY (100 years) then it would require a mere 1140 temples each working 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for 100 years. Tweak that number to about 120 per hour and only 6 days a week gets roughly the same number, if you're worried about keeping the Sabbath day holy. :-) Interesting thought-experiment. This is assuming, of course, that all these records are available and that members of the church are willing to put the time and effort into working at the temple.

Regardless, I believe it is a very important and needful thing, equally needful to helping the living. God knows all the precise reasons, but it's important for each member to receive this testimony for themselves.

DeseretratinNC

Blah Blah Blah!! Mormon v. Non-mormon. Anything to call one another a name or start an arguement. I've watched it for 50+ years, like 2 children on the playground fighting over a toy. Sad it is I say, sad it is!

Clark Larsen

PEOPLE! PEOPLE! Let's all just calm down for a second and take a deep breath.

Okay, now let's try and look at this calmly and objectively. The fact is, the Catholic Church, like any religion, has a right to keep their records confidential. No one should dispute that. To my fellow LDS Church members, let's give the General Authorities and Family History leaders time to work out the details of this request.

I seriously doubt this will bring Family History work to a hault. Of course, things will have to be altered, but let's not hit the panic button, okay?

To Catholic 12:11 - Thank you for your comments. My only response would be this. If, as a Latter-day Saint, someone from another faith were to baptize my deceased family members in their temple, I would honestly NOT BE offended. It would in no way take away from the good name of my ancestors, and why should it? And if someone from another church wanted to baptize me, after I died, why would I care? I'm dead.

Some people may be offended, but I simply would not be.

Vernal Roid

So much Hate over religion. Hummmmmm

Freeman

I say we settle this on the football field: BYU vs. Notre Dame. The winner gets the rights to the records.

Anonymous

Vatican Officials need to mind their own business and allow this work to continue. That also includes Pope Benedict; He needs to mind his own business.

Freddie

>>I Corinthians 15:29 Baptism for the dead, If is the most glorious subject, why did Paul exclude himself by saying "they" practice it and not "we" or "I" practice it? He was addressing an early cultic practice to prove the Resurrection. no second chance(Hebrews 9:27)<<

A cult, you say?

So, let's see. Paul was saying, essentially, "see that cultic group over there who are baptizing for their dead? That certainly proves there is a resurrection."

Absurd!

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