Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Non Mormon

You LDS people just don't get it, do you. Your practices are offensive when it comes to baptism for the dead. These dead people can't speak for themselves now, but they made their choices in life. So regardless of your argument that you're just giving them the chance, or that family members want it, neither you nor their family members have the right to speak for them just because they can't speak for themselves. You're just another arrogant religion that starts with the belief that you're right, and everyone else is wrong, just like every other religion. You're not special. So take some advice. Lead the way by example. The example of minding your own business instead of trying to force your beliefs on others, or sell them to others through TV ads and going door to door like some insurance company.

Re:Aguia

"We know that all eventually will have the opportunity to make their choices."

No.......you believe they will, but you don't know.

Deborah

After reading the story three times and going over some of the comments posted here I've come to the conclusion that the story lacks depth and accuracy. In other words something is missing in the information provided by the news article which has triggered a defensive reaction from the mostly Mormons who have posted a commentary. I say let's research this issue further and, meanwhile, stop all the Catholic bashing.

AJ


We're all descendents of Adam and Eve, and therefore, not only spirit children from the same God but literally blood relatives as well.

How is it, your claim to dead ancestors is any greater than mine? We're all related!

Mormons are charged with doing saving ordinances for all who have lived before. 1 Cor.15:29 John 3:5. That is their faith, and they are free to practice it.

This does not put Catholics on to the Mormon rolls with membership. Nor does it bind anyone in the hereafter. Every individual has their freedom to choose.

Quesiton: Who is anybody to tell anyone else, they can't listen to new ideas in the spirit world?

Between the crucifiction and the resurrection, Christ went and preached to the spirits in the spirit world.

Really, to what end?

The implication being, there is still much work to do, even after death.

To Catholics, this is all nonsense anyway. So where's the beef?

The idea of one Church trying to thwart the harmless practices of another is a tad condescending.

Look, fellas in Rome, it's not the the 3rd-16th centuries anymore. Take down the stakes and put out the fires.

Compulsion is passe', choice rules.

to Orion

Personally, i would have no problem with the catholics doing their thing after death. Why? becasue even in the next life, we will have our free agency to choose.

Yes, it does cut both ways.

Anonymous

I can't believe the number of responses to this forum that see no harm in taking these records for baptism for the dead. It is NOT just about geneology... I am LDS and would be outraged to be baptized Catholic after I die. Even though I don't believe there would be any impact, I believe LDS doctrine and have made my choice--it would be offensive to have it be undermined or challenged in any way. Don't be so self-centered people!

Anonymous

To Fredd -- You obviously know nothing about the LDS archives. You claim that the LDS don't share the records in their vaults, which is completely not true. The Family History Library itself is proof that they're sharing. As is the new Church History Library currently being built.

I understand the concern here. But I also agree the Catholic Church having potentially selfish reasons for allowing the LDS to microfilm. For one, I have heard it said that parishes in Europe have been happy with microfilming because it then means they don't have lots of people trampling through and asking to see records, many of which are old and fragile. Additionally, the potential for records to be destroyed is such that it would always be nice to have a backup.

Join a genealogy group on the web and you'll notice by a far majority most of them are not LDS. And they are grateful to have the LDS records available. I research Poland, in which most people were Catholic. Most of the people in my research group, descendants of Polish immigrants, are probably still Catholic.

JP

My favorite part of this article is the pararaph describing how baptisms for the dead work, as though it's common knowledge.

"A practice in which the names of the deceased are baptized into the LDS faith so that they may be united in the afterlife with LDS families, if they so choose."

Shouldn't this be prefaced by something indicating that only Mormons believe in this wacky afterlife footnote? I know the DN is generally pretty objective considering that they are owned by the church, but come on.

AZLDSGal

This may be a little set back for those on the other side but we all know in the end that everyone that has ever lived and those that have yet to live will be baptized and will have the choice. That is the one good thing about the Lords true church and that Heavenly Father will always help his children find the light. There will always be a way....

ExCatholic/Now Mormon

I've been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints for 31 years. Our Church teaches that he realized the Churches of his day were wrong and he was trying to get back to the original Church of New Testament times. He couldn't have been a Mormon. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints was established in 1830, long after his day.

Also,to "my questions:" You mentioned wondering why people don't think God is "god" enough to save people without Baptism, etc. Jesus Christ insisted on being Baptized "to fulfil all righteousness." Matthew 3:15. Why would He do that if it wasn't necessary?

Ernie

To NON Mormon. Where do you get off speaking for the dead? First, the baptism is a choice. Isn't it better to give them the choice? Maybe the choice was not presented to them during their lives. In the Bible we are directed by God to spread the word. If you don't believe in the LDS Church, that is OK. But, if you believe in the Bible, it is a bit hypocritical to bash Mormons for trying to do the will of God.

Microfilming

I recently asked not too long ago how far back in death records the LDS church goes with microfilming- they don't index any names of those who have been dead less than 45 years. The reason for my asking this is because my parents work had been done in the 1990 and the person who submitted their names claimed they had no children. There are children - 7 of them. I'm the oldest and the only member.

Need to make sure you have all your ducks lined up in a row before do the work.

More ExCatholic/Now Mormon

On many occasions I've had personal Spiritual proof of the joy that my dead relatives felt when their Babtismal work was done for them.

People should spend more time serving others and doing good rather than finding fault in people with different beliefs than theirs. We Mormons do our best to love God, our families, our country, and try to do good to all men, including our kindred dead, having old-fashioned values that we live by.

Our Church sends Humanitarian Aid all over the world -- school kits, hygiene kits, infant kits, quilts, food, etc. Our people help clean up after disasters. A while back people in an area of the Southeastern US thanked two Churches for their great help -- the Mormons and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Hmmm -- they are both the same Church! I'd say, "By their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:20

Paul DeBry

The Mormon Church does not baptize the dead INTO their church. They make that baptism AVAILABLE to that person in the spirit world. The baptism is valid only if that person accepts it. The Mormon Church believes than no one in the spirit world is forced into any church, including the Mormon Church. For that baptism to be valid in the spirit world, the dead person must accept the teachings of the Mormon Church. If they do not accept those teachings, the baptism is not effective and the person does not become a member of the Mormon Church. Free agency applies there just as it does here. It is silly to think otherwise.

THEY OWN THE RECORDS

THEY OWN THE RECORDS THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THE RECORDS.

Re:Ernie

I don't speak for the dead, I let them be. Your religion should do the same instead of assuming through your arrogance that you have the right to force one of your religious rites on them.

Bill G

Cuts Both Ways: "Would it bother mormons if let's say the FLDS were re-doing the temple ordinances because they figured the mainstream LDS had gone astray."

Not at all. If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

orion: "I would think there would be a cry of outrage among the LDS folk if Catholics suddenly baptized deceased, life-long, temple worthy, LDS members. How about church prophets? How about those who died while in service of the LDS Church?"

There would be no outrage at all. Once again, If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

Anonymous: "I wonder how you would feel if a group that you thought was a cult, say The Church of Satan, baptised your family into their Church. Would you like it???"

No problem at all. If what they are doing is not true, what does it matter?

Jason: "Mormons want to be left alone to worship how they want and should leave others to do the same."

Which is exactly what they are doing. I don't see any mormons going into other churches and shutting them down saying they are not allowed to worship that way.

Bill G

Mark: "I was baptized Lutheran, and chose to be Catholic, and don't want any revisionist history written about me after I die."

No revisionist history is being written about anyone, so you can rest easy here. I see a common theme of lack of understanding about what these records are used for. They are microfilmed and added to a freely available public database to make it easier for you Mark to trace your family history. Adding these records to this database does not rewrite history nor make you a mormon, nor does any baptism for the dead make anyone a mormon. One other thing that is being misunderstood is that just having your name in this database does not qualify you for baptism of the dead. YOUR family members MUST submit your name separately and independently for baptism of the dead.

Reality

This is one of those areas where there should not be a seperation of church and state. The state should impose laws against church infringment on personal name and indentity rights. Many people have worked hard to earn their name recognition and its representation of their person. It is unjust for others to modify it by putting their imprint on it.

Mike A.

Clearly after reading many of these posts you can see that the D News is LDS owned and the vast majority of its readers are LDS. That is why I only look at the high school sports online DNews. They clearly offer better coverage in high school sports. I just happened to see online coverage on this topic and had to laugh as I started to read the posts. I'm wondering why all you LDS people are online this sunday morning. Probably having a cup of coffee as you browse the net!!!!

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