Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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AJ

To spoiled child

First of all, the LDS Church already has many records for the World to share. This new policy from Rome, will not slow down the work at all.


Mormons will accept the Catholic ban, this is not a new policy, it's been done before and it's being done again. Who's the spoiled child, by taking their ball and going home?

What is unacceptable to Mormons is the notion of the Catholic Church stating "we will stop the Mormons from practicing baptism for the dead."
Ain't gonna happen.

This is America and no religion has the right to tell anther religion what they can and cannnot believe. It's arrogant to the extreme.

Keep your records if you will, burn them if you will, but, rest assured that if the Mormons find family histories, "THEY PRESERVE THEM FOR THE WORLD TO SHARE, AND TREAT THEM AS THE SACRED DOCUMENTS, THEY ARE.

I do work at the Family History Library, I run into people of all Faiths and from all over the World.
The LDS Church isn't involved in "aversion therapy" trying to dictate to another faith what they can and cannot believe.

All are welcome.

Sam Schmitt

Julie,

Maybe this will help - just because the Catholic Church doesn't believe in baptism of the dead, that doesn't mean the it thinks it's harmless to the one who attempts to do it. So the RCC does not want to cooperate in any way in the practice, not because it harms the dead (as you correctly point out, the RCC doesn't believe it has any real effect), but because the RCC does not want to have any part of a practice which it considers false.

What if you were asked by a Catholic friend the names of your Mormon friends so that he could pray to Mary for them. I think it is very understandable that you would not want to do this. If he then said to you, "Why not? You don't believe in prayer to Mary anyway, so what's the big deal?" Well, I can see why you would still refuse, not because you think his praying to Mary would actually "do" anything, but because you wouldn't want to cooperate in his praying to Mary, since you think this is a false practice.

That's what's going on here. It's really not that hard to figure out.

Indiana Genealogist

I know a Roman Catholic couple who had been married for several years, who had a ceremony by their priest to "renew" their "vows." The RC church apparently approves of re-doing its "sacrament" (what LDS call an ordinance) of marriage for living couples who are still married. People in other Christian denominations also do this.

I'm a convert of 31 years (formerly RC). When people of any denomination ask me about temple work, I liken it to the custom of "renewing vows." They seem to accept that concept.

JOT2779

The vast majority of these comments ignore the fundamental issues: what "right" do people have to these records? And isn't it the SOLE prerogative of the Catholic Church to decide which of HER records it decides to protect? Would any of you be offended if I declined to provide you my latest payroll statement? If so, on what basis? That's the thing--there's no basis for your "beef" with the Catholic Church's decision.

Why Mad at LDS?

'Just some thought' said: "Why do people get so mad about the LDS? Many people of other faiths try to convert me, like evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, or even hare Krishnas. It is a matter of 5 seconds to say, 'no thanks, I'm not interested.' What's the big deal?"

The vast majority of Christians do not go to the homes or ring the doorbells of other Christians to tell them they belong to a false religion. Who has ever heard of Methodist missionaries doing this to Lutherans, or Catholics to Presbyterians. How can the vast majority of the 2 billion Christians in the world accept Mormons as fellow Christians under these circumstances. This LDS practice breeds distrust and dislike and is considered disrespectful and intrusive.

banderson

As a doctor in Illinois I can share that medical records are the joint property of the patients (and their legal descendants)and the doctor who is required by law to keep a record of treatment.

When a patient choses to change doctors a copy needs to be made so both parties have a copy. Some offices charge. We don't.

I don't know that the medical records are a good comparison with 200 year old birth records held by a church. For whatever purposes the Catholic Church particularly has done a wonderful job over the years of recording births marriages and deaths -- often far earlier than governments made such records.

You could argue that like medical records the descendants have a "right" to the records of their ancestors but really if there is no legal requirement established by the government to provide those records to descendants -- it's left to the church to make up whatever policy it wants regarding release of their records.

The Catholic Church is less centrally directed than the LDS Church. Many parishes in the past have chosen to cooperate in the filming and preservation of their records, others have not. Now we'll see.

Re: Indiana Genealogist

Referring to your temple work as renewing vows is misleading. The validity of the original marriage vows always remain intact. In your explanation, do you tell people of other faiths that the LDS Church does not accept the validity of the original baptism?

Arrogant to the extreme?

"This is America and no religion has the right to tell anther religion what they can and cannnot believe. It's arrogant to the extreme."
-----------------

What's arrogant to the extreme is to do something just because you can regardless of the wishes of the living relatives of the dead. Even if your culture is to ignore the sensitivities of others and stand in judgement of all you survey, you can still stand back and reassess ....

Dear Raymond

I was unaware that the Catholics thought the Pope received revelation. Can you expound on that one and tell us of any revelations the Pope has received?

Because as I understand it, according to Catholics, the day and age of revelation is over. All we need to know is in the Bible. No need for modern day revelation...

As for those who are saying that Catholics don't believe babies go to hell if they aren't baptized, I'd say 90% of the Catholics I know disagree with you. That's there understanding of the doctrine and I asked them last night about it.

banderson

"We all share the same ancestors"

I admit that is a rather general statement understood by many genealogists. Of course I don't share any close ancestors with someone from Japan.

Here is what I mean. I have 2 parents and 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16 great-great-parents. Pretty much all of these were LDS. Farther back than these folks nobody was a Mormon because the Church started in 1830.

I have 32 great-great-great-grandparents, 64 4th great-grandparents and so on back through the generations -- 128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192, 16,384, 33,768, 67,536, 135,072. From this fifth generation back all my family were Methodists, Catholics, Church of England and probably even Druid from Denmark.

So the total ancestors I personally have at 17 generations back looks like over 200,000. If each of us had unique ancestors, the 300,000,000 or so inhabitants of the USA would have 200,000 ancestors each by the 17th generation for a total of 30 trillion people. I'm quite sure that's more people than have ever lived on the Earth.

The reality is that as you get back several generations our family trees become so intertwined with many others that effectively -- "we all share the same ancestors".

banderson

The effect of us generally "all having the same ancestors" is that we can all help one another find our common ancestors. Millions of non-LDS benefit each year by using LDS resources to find their ancestors. Thousands of LDS use wonderful Non-LDS resources to find ancestors. There is a great cooperative effort among genealogists.

The information age has exploded the information available on the Internet and our ability to find our kin and collaborate with others of our extended family to extend our family lines. There are various ways information can be shared into the Internet so extended family can benefit.

Some researchers like to gather information from others efforts but don't want to share what they have found. That's okay too. Some people do research just to find some O'Haras and get together to get drunk and speak fondly of the "Old country". That's okay too.

I may think it would be harmful to help the O'Haras find their family, get drunk. But I'll still share my research with them. They're on their own to do with it what they will.

Everyone has their own reason to search out their kin. Mormons have theirs. Maybe that's okay too.

banderson

A sweet thing happened a few years ago when my wife hurt her leg severely. Our evangelical neighbor lady came over to see my wife. Seeing that she had a hurt leg she offered to lay hands on her and pray for her to be healed (a New Testament practice still practiced by some churches).

We LDS lay hands on people all the time and pray for them -- but it was sure different to have a neighbor lady offer a similar opportunity. My wife graciously accepted the offer and the prayer was said. Yes the leg got better.

I would be happy to have my ancestors baptized in whatever church or sacrificed to heathen gods or whatever. I won't be offended and I suspect they won't either. See above to identify who my ancestors are. They are generally your ancestors -- so knock yourself out if you'd like to.

Barney

Erroneous how? asked
"Will a Catholic please scripturally explain how baptism for the dead is erroneous?"

I suggest that you go to a parish priest and ask, but please ask politely and respectfully.

To banderson

"Some people do research just to find some O'Haras and get together to get drunk and speak fondly of the "Old country"."

You could have used a non-Irish surname in your example rather than reinforcing a stereotype.

Bill

The Catholic Church is self-destructing. All we can do is let it go.

Emlyn Davis

I'm sorry but I think it's all about example. If when you give information you know the person is using it in a way that does not match your beliefs or sets an erroneous example then the Catholic Church has every right to hold such information back.

Also with regards to the comment known as 'Two Faced' don't play the game that the LDS is above reproach and innocent. LDS will do anything to get on tv and look 'Christian' with Helping Hands and other projects. By the way I'm a Mormon who has become a Catholic so yes I'm probably warped and anti-Mormon.

Rebecca

I can understand that from the outside this statement could be misinterpreted to mean that Catholic's don't like Mormons and it is true that it is difficult to love those who seem different.

However, The Catholic Church was correct in making this statement for a number of reasons but one which is important in these times, is that there is popular misconception that all religions are the same.If they had agreed to give names of the Catholic faithful this could be misinterpreted as saying Catholic and LDS - the same.

This is not true, the LDS faith has elements of the truth but it is not the Truth. Christ is the Truth. The Catholic Church is Christ's Church. Which he is with always to the end of time in the Eucharist and which he promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against. It is still His Church :)I pray that we all may grow in the love of Christ. God Bless

Sue

As a devout Mormon who loves Catholics (and other people of various faiths)I am not offended that Catholics, or any other religions, believe that they have the only true church. Why would anyone align themselves with a religion that didn't believe it had the power to save it's members? After my mother-in-law passed away a few months ago, my Catholic neighbor had her prayed for in special masses, which will continue for five years. I am very touched by her love and thoughtfulness. The Catholic Church certainly has the right to do what it wants with its records but I hope that there will be a way for all religions to benefit from shared information.

Just to add a bit more

I meant to say I don't hate Mormons/LDS. My family are still members of the LDS and I love them but I agree with the point made by the catholic church.

Cliff

I'm seeing a lot of posts on here stating that the LDS church would be highly offended if other church members began "baptizing" for dead LDS members.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Such statements are simply knee-jerk statements unfounded in logic or truth. No, we would not be "all over that like white on rice."

Our 11th article of faith states: "We claim the privilege of worshipping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege. Let them worsjip how, where, or what they may."

If someone else wants to perform a post death ritual on behalf of my deceased ancestor, so be it. It will not be of any effect, so why should it bother me, or any other church member?

I fail to see why this would bother anyone who was secure in their own religion? If the Catholic church really believes the LDS church is in error, what is that to the Catholics?

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