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Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Anonymous

I would figure our lord would be able to keep track of our geneolgy and would accept good and kind people no matter what ordinances have occured. If indeed he is our father in heaven and we are all his children then does this all really matter and are we just making are lives more complicated?

very sad

I am new to blogging, just trying to make a positive contribution. When I read stuff like this, I wonder it it's worth it. I am so brought down by the sarcasm, the name-calling, negativity and bitterness. Wow. I believe it was Christ who warned us where the "spirit of contention" comes from - and it is he who is the source of all contention that I see emerging as the only "victor" here. I happen to be a Latter Day Saint. I am very sad about the above types of communication here by members of my faith. I apologize for them. Very sad also that others choose to "throw the baby out with the bath water" and dismiss any faith because the members are imperfect. Show me a church full of perfect people? Please? I invite any to read the most up-to-date words of our leaders (try General Conference reports on lds.org) and see if we do truly teach about respect and tolerance and love for all others. The Catholics have the right to do whatever they like with their records. Please - the enemy is hate - not each other.

Thomas

The Kneebiters are fictional and folklore in mormon history. Anyone who has posted here on actual events involving these creatures are just very, very ill informed. It actually has a very negative connotation as represented in the US version of the book Hitchikers Guide to The Galaxy. I am not sure we want our folklore associated with that connotation.

Truth

Reading the bulk of the posts here, I've come to the conclusion that many representing the LDS faith simply cannont comprehend the following:

1. No amount of explaining doctrine about baptism for dead is going to make it acceptable to most. Honoring their privacy and religion should be foremost.

2. Many people simply don't believe yours is the "True Church." No offense but try to understand.

3. You believe your work in baptisms and geneology is the "Lord's work." Other religions place no emphasis on this; no disrespect meant but this may be incomprehensible to many.

I believe many of your intentions are good but please respect the feelings of other religions. Last, to LDS members who understand 1-3 and spoke out on this forum urging religious freedom and tolerance, you've broken down 1 stereotype I had about LDS religion...thank you

banderson

harry C
I understand the Catholic Church has for decades welcomed the filming and preservation of their records by the LDS Church. I suspect that in the past it was not perceived by them as conspiring with heretics. If that perception has changed, they can of course pay others in the future to preserve their records for them.

Unfortunately many churches and other holders of valuable genealogical records have a hard time finding the substancial sums necessary to microfilm their records. Their money is spent for other worthy causes.

Fortunately for record preservation, the LDS Church has been willing to spend huge sums of money to provide filming services to record holders at no cost.

For instance, in Europe some records were filmed before churches were destroyed in World War II. In New Orleans there had been opposition to LDS filming for decades. Finally, recently, permission was granted and an LDS film crew was operating when Katrina hit.

We all share the same ancestors. As the LDS find our ancestors and preserve their histories we freely share that information with the world because many have those same ancestors. We invite the world to share with us -- and many do.

Shane

We DO NOT ALL share the same ancestors. The LDS are far less than 1% of the worlds population and so the other 99.x+% of us would appreciate the respect of not harassing our ancestors in the after life nor trying to convert us in the here and now!

RE: Erroneous how?

"...please scripturally explain how baptism for the dead is erroneous?..."

Paul used first-person pronouns throughout 1 Corinthians referring to himself and the believers, then changes to 'they' in 15:29. Clearly he was referring to an erroneous practice. Paul's style of argument and exposition made frequent use of examples; this is clearly one of those examples, saying, if they don't believe in an afterlife, why do they bother with baptizing the dead? Furthermore, it is mentioned only in that one place in the Bible, without further reference, and without any associated commands or guidelines.
Were it a practice that was condoned, it would have been mentioned elsewhere along with further guidelines.

The Bible teaches that salvation must occur before death; else it is too late. See Luke 16:24 concerning this. See 2 Corinthians 6:2.
The BoM also teaches this: Alma 34:31; 2 Nephi 9:38;
Mosiah 26:25-27.

Nothing in the BoM supports baptism for the dead, which claims to contain "the fulness of the everlasting gospel."

Just some thoughts

Why do people get so mad about the LDS? Frequently people of other faiths try to convert me, like Evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses or even Hare Krishnas. It is a matter of 5 seconds to say "No thanks, I'm not interested". What's the big deal? Why is everything nowadays seen as disrespectful? The same goes for baptism for the dead. As long as you didn't have a relationship with a particular person, how can you say that he/she would feel harassed? Most of them lived hundreds of years ago. How could anyone here be their spokesperson?

To those who refer to scriptures in the Bible to prove or disprove things I would say, that there are a lot of things that Christian churches do today (LDS and Non-LDS) that is not based on specific commandments or clear guidelines of the Bible.

One last thing-- If you think LDS are being disrespectful, you better not be someone who ever thought or said: "I'll pray for you, erronous Mormon!", because that, according to your thinking, is disrespectful, too.

Actually..

There are many things in the Bible that very few Christian religions ignore. For example, no one stones their children to death for disobedience as god in the Bible command.

If you decide to read the Bible without religious authority looking over your shoulder to make sure you read their way, you'll find that the Bible is full of the worst form of morality around, acts that would make Stalin proud.

Religion is all about picking and choosing passages that support their dogma and conveniently ignoring the immoral god parts and then claiming that the Bible is the word of some supernatural person.

It's time to drop religion all together.

Raymond A.

The Pope of the Holy Catholic church is a prophet of the true God and he acts in accord with communion through prayer and revelations, he is not acting on a personal preference but because he is directed by our Lord. We hope others will understand and respect this rule of holy law given with our love and good will.

Jim E

Most LDS are saying that Christians dont believe Mormon baptism has any meaning so why should Christians care.

I wonder if the LDS would mind giving me their dead ancestors names so I can sacrifice their blood to Baal by proxy?

Shouldn't matter to them. LDS don't think a sacrifice to Baal has any meaning.

G

"From G: "They don't own the temples." And you don't own the records."

Really? What records did Jewish groups hold over the church to get them to abandon proxy baptism? None.

We live in a society where people use "offense" as political capital. Let them be offended. Brigham Young would not have tolerated this.

G

"
I wonder if the LDS would mind giving me their dead ancestors names so I can sacrifice their blood to Baal by proxy?

Shouldn't matter to them. LDS don't think a sacrifice to Baal has any meaning."


Personally, I wouldn't care. You can get names out of a phone book and practice whatever ordnance you want all day long. If it does no physical harm, where is the problem?

G

"Why is everything nowadays seen as disrespectful? The same goes for baptism for the dead. "

Because we live in a society that worships political correctness.

Tiago

I think those records belong to their ancestors as much as they do to the Catholic Church.

records

Records belong to organizations. Ever try going to a doctor and getting your own medical records? They won't just hand them over to you, but they will copy them--for a price.

You might not care...

I dont think LDS individuals would *care* if someone was baptizing them by proxy to another faith because they believe it holds not authority, but lets be realistic. The Baptists have a missionary program called the Great Commission, which targets LDS members as potential converts. Hypothetically, if the Baptists were to initiate a publicly known, church-wide program whereby they used LDS Church membership records to baptize by proxy all LDS members; you can guarantee LDS Church leaders would have something to say about it. You might not *care*, but there is no doubt that action would be condemned at the highest levels of the Church, and access to the records the Baptists were using would be denied.

Thomas

No religion should claim veto power over what another religion's adherents do in the privacy of their own churches.

Re: You might not care...

"Hypothetically, if the Baptists were to initiate a publicly known, church-wide program whereby they used LDS Church membership records to baptize by proxy all LDS members; you can guarantee LDS Church leaders would have something to say about it. You might not *care*, but there is no doubt that action would be condemned at the highest levels of the Church, and access to the records the Baptists were using would be denied."

I still wouldn't care, since, again, all they would have to do is use a phone book to get names for ordnances. Or our own resources.

But there are a few subtle assumptions in your analogy that need to be pointed out.

(1) In your analogy latter-day saints are being specifically targeted because only of our religion, by a specific church we've had problems with. In proxy baptism, every non-LDS person is targeted. It is not a campaign specifically organized against Catholics.

(2) In your analogy the recipients are still alive.
I think there is a difference between my Catholic ancestors 300 years ago and the current LDS member rolls. Specifically, it raises the question of whether or not the Catholics *own* my ancestors.

Records ownership

Organizations own records. You don't even "own" your records. Ever try to get your personal medical records from the doctor? They won't hand them over to you. They will copy your records for you--for a fee.

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