Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Naive

The bottom line is this: It is naive to think the Catholic Church considers the LDS Church a threat or pays any attention to our comments regarding their actions. The Vatican runs an organization with a population four times the size of the population of the US. The Pope signs numerous documents on a regular basis, and this is probably already old news. To the Vatican, the issue of church records is most likely no more than a minor irritant coming from a tiny US-based religious group that is but a blip on the radar screen to the Catholic Church. To put it into perspective, Catholic church growth has slowed to one percent a year, or 12 million new members a year. That is the size of our entire LDS Church.

Alex

Mark:

"Your reference to Cromwell was mean-spirited. "

I'll second that. I am hoping that what Thomas was trying to say didn't come out right. Oliver Cromwell is rightly a very sensitive issue for Catholics.

dispatches from for-mon

"...People are only baptized if a family member brings the record, not in blanket style. These are not performed by the church but rather individuals who are related to the person. If a person feels it important to perform a certain act for a deceased ancestor out of love then I do not understand the outrage..."

My wife, a former Mormon (Praise God for that!), reports that as a teenager, she did temple work as part of a LDS youth group, which specifically included 'baptisms for the dead'; she says she knew none of the people on the list and that none of them were her ancestors nor members of her family.

no respecter of persons

God is no respecter of persons. LDS doctrine teaches that everyone who has ever lived deserves the right to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and its saving ordinances.

Members work diligently to trace their ancestral lines and to perform these ordinances on behalf of their deceased ancestors, respecting their right to accept or reject these ordinances.

My question to those who question this practice is what right do you have on behalf of your ancestors to reject this opportunity for them to choose?

Religion aside

Regardless of beliefs, in today's society of access and open information, particularly in the area of finding out who your ancestors are, this decision to close access to members of a specific religion seems selfish and small minded. If I had information in my possession about who someone's parents, great grandparents or other ancestors were I would certainly share that information freely with them. It hardly seems Christ like or loving to close that door on people who want to know who their ancestors were, for whatever reason.

Alex

re: Thomas:

"Mormons do not baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I believe the LDS baptize in Jesus name only. "

Actually we do each and every time, and we have been doing it in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost from the very beginning.

Even so, it doesn't bother me that Catholics don't accept my baptism. Heck, I don't accept their baptism either. Its nothing personal. None of this, however, has never stopped me from having plenty of friends from other faiths.

Reader

489 comments. Wow.

Seems this pushes some real hot buttons. I think I'll start having grave reservations too.

So much for bringing people together.

Andrew,/ Re: LDS Mom

Yes, it is arrogant for those of you who decide that these old twelve white guys in Temple Square are "authorized" to baptize my parents and relatives who died in the Holocaust into a religion they would never accept no matter how "loving a gift" you seem to think it is. Keep your beliefs to yourself and other clones. I and just about everyone I know doesn't want to hear your tired old dogma.

larry

After reading and reading and reading on this forum I would like to declare that the Catholic church has every right to its records. Logical, eh.

PS -- I am not a Catholic.

To Alex:

The LDS Trinity and Christian Trinity are not the same. Look it up.

Hit a Nerve

Wow, this story sure has HIT A NERVE!! I don't think I've ever seen this many comments on a single story. This is just a little opposition. The Lord is able to do His own work.

Macka

sjc!

One church recognising another's baptism may happen. However, this is not correct doctrine. Paul himself re-baptised a number of men as they had not been baptised by one holding the correct authority.

Acts 19: 1-5
1 AND it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Clearly there is need to be baptized by the correct authority.

elliot

These comments from both sides of the spectrum should be an eye-opener for us all.

Religion brings out the worst in people. I will let you sit here and fight about who has the correct baptism. When will we learn?

I can't wait until these ancient religions die down and the new ones start, maybe they will actually practice what they teach.

My family

You people are fighting about nothing. If you go back 6-10 generations or so, on most Mormon lines their are Catholic lines of people who are direct lines that come back down to a particular Mormon person. So if the Mormon person has ancestors who were all Catholics and then this particular Mormon descender chooses to do work for the dead on his direct ancestors, who were all Catholic and Jewish, then he definitely has the right as a Mormon to do work for them because THEY ARE HIS FAMILY! I am a eight generation Mormon and I DIRECTLY have family lines back to Jewish and Catholic families, and as well, being a descendant of (Theologian Protestant Reformer) Martin Luther. These are my "direct" ancestors, so indeed, I will do the work within the Mormon church for "MY FAMILY". Does anyone have any objections to this?

to to alex

you are right, they are not the same. Can you please scripturally corroborate the Catholic version of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost for us? I don't want you to use the Nicene Creed. I want you to use the scriptures where is says all 3 are 1 person....

I'll give you some hints...use the verses where Christ is baptized..or use the one of the Mount of Transfiguration...or use the one of the Intercessory Prayer....

Please, I'd like for you to scripturally tell us the Catholic version of the Trinity...

Wow Indeed

Why does competing religious dogmas stir up so much division of among people? Aren't we ultimately human beings before anything we are member of a belief system? We can't we get together and focus on concerns facing us in the real world, all together, not as a group of Mormons, Catholics, etc in their separate religious groups, but as a group of human beings concerned with issues all people are concerned out, and let the standard be the evidence of our collective efforts to spread goodness in the world.

Instead of getting together to focus on life as we know it on this planet, lots of people prefer arguing over baptism. Why? I personally believe that issues we experience are more important than talk of an after life. Don't you?


Alex

"The LDS Trinity and Christian Trinity are not the same. Look it up. "

I know. I was only answering Thomas statement to the effect that we only baptize in the name of the Son. We are baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Three separate beings who are one in every other way other than being the same person. I know what the Trinity as defined by the early church councils is.

People...come now

Folks, what do you think is going to be going on in the Millennium? It's going to be a 1000 years of genealogy work.

It really matters not if the Catholics or any other church gives up their names or not. They will be known in the Millennium and then the temple work will be done for them.

It's really cute and dried or in other words, plain and simple.

Catholics worship Mary. That's not in the scriptures. There version of the "trinity" isn't found in scripture. There version of baby baptism isn't in scripture. all of their rituals aren't found in scripture.

you know what is in scripture? Baptisms for the dead. Ever read 1 Peter 3:19? Will a Catholic believer please explain that scripture?

BTW, I don't know where this doing temple work is an act of "love" came from. For some, I'm sure doing their own family names it is a wonderful experience. However, it's a commandment and it has to be done no matter what.

AND, those who have died don't have an easier time of accepting the gospel versus those on the earth. Where did that come from?

Howard

What a shame! So just because my Chinese ancestors never accepted Christ while they were alive, they are out of luck?

"Get it right NOW" suggests that they, along with the MAJORITY of humans since the race began are all consigned to Hell because the never even heard of Christ. That is merciful.

As for Catholic records, they own them. It is their choice. That is agency.

Brother Chuck Schroeder

Perhaps the Vatican representatives should know about this and ALLOW their Priest's and all other males to get married to a woman. Remember, the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. That's why Republican's as well as "normal people" call upon other responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

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