Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Mike

It's not about the Church. The bottum line is, it's about families being together forever in the eternities as a unit.

ANNON

Put your religion aside and look at it from a Non-Mormon's perspective, if that's possible. It is considered and insult, and an a front to the, "affected religion." Mormon's think they are God's gift to the world, when in reality they are no better, nor worse than any other people. It is their perceived feeling of superiority that is being condemned.

Michael

Particularly for LDS members in Italy, this move will only aggravate the horrible suspicion and discrimination they deal with. Regarding Catholic objections to LDS baptisms for the dead, the Catholic Church historically has done the SAME practice. They were called "indulgences," except their underlying motives are far more iffy than those of enthusiastic LDS members giving of their time to express something on behalf of their forbears. "Poor people, pay this money and you'll get your ancestors out of purgatory (and we'll be able to build St. Peter's.)"

Franz

To Cuts Both Ways: If the FLDS Church or anybody else wants to do baptisms or any other ceremony for me after I'm dead then they are welcome to it. Proxy baptisms have no effect on membership numbers, and is done as an act of love and concern; if other churches care enough to try to save my soul at their considerable expense then go right ahead. Again, there is no benefit to the LDS Church from these baptisms, and there is a substantial expense to copy and preserve the various birth , marriage, death and christening records. Building temples, where these baptisms are done, are not cheap; this is in addition to the infrastructure for family history research (libraries, computers, software). The other churches should be ashamed that they don't care so much. Shame on the Catholic Church for actually hindering this work. I have had respect for the Catholic Church in the past, and still respect the members as good people; if I were a member I would be embarrassed.

Anonymous

This is not about Mormons vs Catholics or what belief is the right one. People from both sides actually need to learn to live and let live. It's really getting old. My point here is those records should be public because they are the people's not the Catholic Church's. The parishes were the ones in charge of those record until beginning of the 20th century and those records should be taken and administered by the goverment so the public have access to them. This is like the times when the Bible was only read by the priests until the printer was invented and then the public has access to it. The people is the right owner of those records.

Dutchman

Now I know why the German, Elder Uchtdorf, was called as a member of the First Presidency. It sounds like the the two Germans, President Uchtdorf and Pope Benedict need to work this out. Also, I can't believe the number of issues the very capable President Thomas S. Monson has had to deal with since becoming President of the Church. God bless these noble men.

Prophecy

This is merely a fulfillment of prophecy in my opinion. Family records should not be ownership of any church. This is information that belongs to the people, not to a given church, or sect. The LDS church has known this for years, and have gone to great lengths to make this information available. The Catholic church is apparently doing the opposite, and going to great lengths to make this information unaccesable to the people. What a shame. What a terrible move by the Catholic church. This is sure to upset more than just LDS folks.

Rob

Pres. Hinckley used to say "Things will work out". I think that applies to this situation as well. We need not be judgmental of any group of people when the fact is they really don't understand what we're trying to do. If this is the work of the Lord, which I believe it to be, then things will work out. Let's be kind, be better examples today than we were yesterday, and see what happens.

Once more...

One more try...there is NO religous issue at stake here. Mormons believe in baptizing the dead, no other church believes it has any significance. People can believe what they want to.

The ISSUE HERE is that many of these records will be lost forever, UNLESS an organization like the LDS church is allowed to do what it has been doing for many years...microfilm the records. These records will be lost or damaged unless it is done. For reasons peculiar to them, the LDS people have taken on this task...let them continue to do it. They turn no one away from their library or its immense store of records. Go to the SL gnealogical library on any day...you'll see MANY non-LDS people there. In fact, I think a slight majority of them are non-LDS (depending on the floor, and day). Be reasonable...there is NO issue here for anybody to be upset about, really. Religion is a matter of faith, not fact. We are all in the same boat in that regard. The peculiar belief of one group is no threat to anyone else. Microfilm these records, preserve them for future generations! I hope his Holiness sees the light on this.

Ownership-

I agree we don't own our ancestors. It isn't a matter of ownership. It's simply a matter of finding out who our ancestors were and tying family lines together. It's interesting information. The LDS church has no more Ownership of it's members than the Catholic church does of it's members. Every soul that ever lived on this earth has their own free will.

Isn't it highly possible that sometime after the vital records were made hundreds of years ago(birth, baptism, marriage) that the person may have chosen for themselves to leave the Catholic church? There probably isn't any record made of that. So it doesn't make sense that the Catholics have "ownership" over a person just because their name was in the parish records. Perhaps if their death record is in the parish and they were known to go to that same church their whole adult lives, you could argue that they truely belonged to that church of their own free will. ANd they can certainly reject the proxy baptism if they want to. I would bet that many hundreds of thousands of people left church by the time they died.

tstu

Why wouldn't the Vatican just ask the LDS church presidency instead?

James

How does that work exactly...do I live with my kids as a family forever, or do I live with my parents as a family forever? Then what happens to my kids?
If people in heaven really have the choice to accept Mormonism or not (and the proxy baptism) does that mean there's free agengy in heaven? How does that work...how can Satan have influence in heaven? Plus, if God is standing over my shoulder telling me to accept a certain religion, what choice do I have in the hereafter? Why does a person need a physical baptism when all of us will receive a perfectly good body when Jesus comes again? Why can't we just do it then? God certainly knows who is good or not. If I were born in Mongolia in 400 A.D. and have no birth record, what happens then? Eternal damnation? If God sorts out everything in the end, why even bother with proxy basptism in the first place?

Oh, really?

"YOU HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OVER YOUR ANCESTORS!"

But the Catholic Church does?

WOW!!!!

I haven't read every comment on this blog, and I hope the Pope doesn't either. All the Catholic bashing isn't going to help change his or anyone elses opinion of the LDS church. In fact I have to wonder if all these negative comments aren't doing as much damage between the two churches as the Pope's decision to close the records.

Thomas

I just want to say that, as a mormon, I could care less if some other church wants to perform proxy baptisms for my dead relatives... just as everyone has been saying... why would I care since I do not believe in the authority of those baptisms.

For those trying to 'turn the argument around' it doesn't really work as I believe the majority of the LDS would not react the way you seem to believe we would.

Catholic

Parish records are the private property of the Catholic Church. They were never meant for geneaology nor as a data base for Mormons to harvest names en masse to disrespect our dead.

FAMILY NAMES

No one wants to "harvest names en masse" or disrespect "your" dead - we're talking about people who have Catholic ancestors, who want to research their family members, being singled out and excluded because of their religious beliefs.

When I think of the millions of dollars and decades of time the LDS Church has spent in collecting and preserving genealogical records of every kind, only to turn around and share them FREE with the general public for whatever purpose they may dream up - seances, family reunions, curiosity about their ancestors - all I can think is, the Catholic Church must feel threatened. It's too bad because it doesn't do much for its image.

Sure, the church owns the books and can do what it likes about allowing some genealogists to see them and excluding others. But maybe the leaders should think more about this.

lifer

The irony of Mormons getting upset over another church denying full access to non-members is simply delicious.

You REALLY don't get it

I understand that you're laboring under the impression that you have the only true church and are doing a "loving" thing. But if the whole world is telling you that you're doing arrogant and insulting things to which they specifically object there may be a clue there that you're missing.

It's not that anyone thinks your "baptism" invalidates or supercedes anything or is anything more than superstition. It's that it insults the living and the dead in a particularly in-your-face way.

If you don't care about being arrogant, weird and irritating carry on. But there will be consequences so don't bother whining about them when you encounter them. Or when your missionaries have their jaws broken.

Marnie

I am a Catholic who has done extensive genealogy research on my own family and assisted friends in their searches. I have asked permission to view records of many parishes (U.S., Canada, Ireland). Every one of those have asked me who I was looking for (how related) and basic details of the person to verify that my quest was personal and not professional. The Church is protecting against the use of personal information in registers for financial profit. Parishes also want to discourage people from browsing through frail registers; many pastors responded to my letters by providing helpful information they had looked up in the registers themselves, saving me time and travel expense, while ensuring that registers were disturbed as little as possible.

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