Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Jim

The Catholic Church doesn't have to give geneological data to anyone if they don't want to. Think of it as Catholic HIPAA. The records are personal and confidential unless those whose information is recorded and the organization keeping the records both agree to release the information. Don't like it? Get over it. You don't have a right to the information.

doug

My step-father was a good Catholic boy from Park City, who became a Mormon in order to marry his first wife. Then she passed away. He married my mom, his second wife, and became a Catholic again (though we were not). He wanted to get back to his roots. He joined the Mormon church in order to get married to the woman he loved. He did not join because Catholicism was wrong, he joined because he was in love. Pretty common thing, actually. Tracks runs both ways.

I enjoy these stories in this forum about how someone was a Catholic and then became a Mormon. Well, I hate to tell you this but there are conversions that did not take quite so well.

And my step-father used to laugh about things that are taken a little too seriously here in this forum. And, I really can't blame him. Lots of humor here about knowing what happens after death.

Was it Mark Twain on his death bed that said: "Ah, now for the great adventure."

Anonymous

A lot of you talk of the records not being available to family for historical purposes, lol. They still are, if you read the article it's available to true family members.

False on conversion

To the person that Stated that the Catholic Church required rebaptism of all, that is patently false. The LDS Church claims they are not trinitarian, while other protestant churches claim they are trinitarian as well as the Catholic Church. So, the Catholic Church accepts protestant baptism while rejecting the non-trinitarian LDS baptism should come as a shock to no one.

Diana

I live in Spain and work in a fHC here. We have a lot of Catholics come to the centre to look for their ancestors, some cannot due to the fact that some provinces are restricted by the Bishops in charge. LDS members have to write a letter to the Bishop asking permission to view films. If the filming now in progress here is cut off then many people are going to very sad, both Catholics and LDS.

Hey Vicki

The family member can chose in the resurrection to convert and you don't need to insult the families of the deceased by doing the temple work now. It's just good manners. Remember though, if a person is a legitimate family member, the Catholic Church will be happy to give you ancestry information.

To: No 2d Chance

You said, "Scripture plainly teaches that if one waits until they have died, they have waited too long. There are no second chances after death. This is why it is a big deal."

I Peter chapters 3 & 4 tells how the Gospel is preached to those who are dead. Christ came into the world (and also went to the afterworld) to redeem the world, not to condemn it -- even the disobedient spirits.

Would a loving God have created beings for the purpose of damning them when they made mistakes or, worse yet, because they never have had the chance to hear the Gospel. No loving human parent would do that to his children. Why would one worship a god with such a character as you are describing in your comment? The LDS teaching in controversy is only that baptism must be performed on earth and by proxy for those who are dead. The Atonement of Christ is a doctrine based on belief in the efficacy of a proxy offering. Baptism for the dead is a proxy offering because, "They without us cannot be saved."

No second chance?

So what happens to all the folks who lived and died without a knowledge of Jesus Christ, people in the deepest jungles and outermost reaches of the world? Are they just out of luck?

Another question if anyone knows the answer- I can understand that the Catholic church "owns" the books or whatever the records are written on, but do they "own" the information? Is it even legal to withold this information from family members? Will they allow members of the Catholic church access to those records? And what is there to stop a Catholic who obtains the info from sharing with LDS families. (This is exactly the case with a dear Catholic lady I know of who does lots of family research in LDS family history centers. She is friendly with LDS and has no qualmes with sharing her research with her LDS family and friends for the purpose of temple work.)

I think the Lord knew this glitch would come up and He'll provide a way around it. I'm not thumbing my nose at the Pope. It just that this is the Lord's work and He'll make it possible to continue.

To: On Limbo

1. If Catholics believe they have the keys for some blessing the LDS do not have, then they would be unloving if they did not share them, with whatever stipulations they want to make, with the LDS and others.

2. The LDS Church already shares all of it's births, deaths, and marriages for deceased members with the whole world via familysearch.org. These records are in the IGI there. If another church wants to perform ordinances for any of these people, they just have to go there, collect the data, and have at it. I wouldn't care a bit because, as a Latter-day Saint, I don't think they hold the keys or authority. As for what the LDS dead might think having two sets of ordinances performed for them (one by non-LDS proxy) -- they'll have to choose for themselves. These people aren't really dead. They are not incompetent. They are just elsewhere for the time being.

Alex

I'm completely scratching my head on this one. I've had enormous respect for the Pope. I really do. I would hope that we can have a good conversation and work this out. At the worst, we are useful idiots cataloging the worlds genealogical records. At best, we are your friends assisting in helping the dead who died without the Gospel to be able to receive the full blessings.

Incidentally, it wouldn't bother me one bit if any church did a ritual for me in their church for my salvation. I'd be flattered.

Truth

They are CATHOLIC records and they can restrict them if they want.

Perhaps

Perhaps if the LDS Church allowed Catholic parents to see their LDS children marry, the distribution of records would not be an issue. Perhaps it is time for the LDS Church to start considering the feelings of others over the needs of self.

Paolo S.

I joined the LDS church 17 years ago in Italy and after a month I started to search for my ancestors. The city hall didnt have the records, the parish did.

Before approaching the parson I faithfully prayed I would not be hindered in doing my research knowing that I was implementing one of the three missions of our church. So I approached the parson and simply told him I was beginning a family research on my ancestors. I then asked him kindly if it was possible to look into the archives. He gave me a suspicious look to which I sincerely responded I had no second intentions at all, and he could trust me. He gave me the keys and asked me to lock myself in while I was doing my search and promptly return the keys once I was done.

I spent four days in that room, and for four days I had no problem in getting the keys: 1) because he trusted me, 2) because the Lord was on my side.

Isnt this a Marvelous Work and a Wonder? Would the Catholic Church be somehow able to stop it? I dont think so... This work will continue!

Andrea Eaton

Thank goodness King Henry VIII had the foresight to divorce England from the Catholic Church and the Pope of his time, otherwise information on my whole family would be lost by this latest edict. Oh I forgot, Henry wasn't thinking about me or anyone else when he broke from the Catholic Church, he was thinking about his lust for Ann Bolyn and his Catholic marriage to Catharine who he really wanted to divorce (at least she kept her head, poor, poor Ann). Anyway I'm grateful to Henry.

They are my ancestors

I have done genealogy since the mid 1970s and have found much information in Catholic Church records in Germany. Most other parts of my family were Protestants (Huguenots, etc.). The people who I looked for were MY ancestors. They, according to our belief, can do whatever they wish with what is done for them in our temples. If we're wrong it means nothing, has no effect on them, and should not matter one bit to a person of another faith. Most of the my family who I pulled Catholic records for were born 150-250 years ago, no one alive knows anything about them, no privacy issue is violated, no harm is done. Apart from what I may do with the information, many other people simply want to know about their family tree and the Catholic records are excellent records for that purpose. The amassed records of the LDS church are available to all, stored safely for future generations and represent a treasure of immense worth to everyone. It should be viewed as a way to preserve precious records to allow them to be microfilmed and saved from fire, theft, or other harm.

Joyce

It won't matter how many Catholic people get baptized by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints who are dead. God forces NO One. They have the choice to accept that baptism or choose Not TO ACCEPT that baptism and the same goes for the Jews who started the whole negative thing.
There will be so many that wish someone had been baptized for them. Sometimes it is their own posterity who do the work for their dead.

The greatest gift our Heavenly Father gave to all of us is the RIGHT TO CHOOSE!

Right On

I think we LDS could certainly learn a lot from the Catholic Church. In the LDS Church we NEED something like a HIPAA regulations to protect the privacy of Church information. LDS Church members are the biggest gossips in the world! Because they have a "lay" clergy, common members are called to callings that give them access to private information about others. Ward clerks, Bishoprics, auxiliary callings give access to information about other members' temple worthiness, tithing donations (and therefore income), past Church disciplinary actions, and more. And what do these people do with that information? They GOSSIP! They judge one another harshly. They say things to their buddies in the ward like, "Oh, Brother XYZ makes GOOD money! I have seen his tithing numbers!" They tell their wives and their wives tell their buddies as they go walking in the mornings: "Did you know the Joneses daughter is not getting married in the temple! That figures. This is Brother Jones' second marriage. He was excommunicated once."

If the LDS Church would take the privacy of people's information MUCH more seriously, we would dramatically reduce the GOSSIP in the Church!

Anonymous

I think Catholics feel the same way we (LDS) would if we were being baptized Catholic after we were dead?

Former Mormon

I was raised in Utah and was Mormon, but converted to Catholicism in 2003. My wife and children are still very active in the Mormon faith. Prior to my conversion I served in numerous capacities including as a full time missionary, member of a Bishopric, Sunday School President, as well as numerous other callings. When I joined the Catholic Church I faced stiff opposition from my local Bishop and Stake President. They visited my home many times and used every rationale that they could think of to dissuade me. I found it hypocritical that they would be so angry when the Mormon Church regularly baptizes members of other faiths without providing a full doctrinal understanding of the belief system. In order to become Catholic I had to attend RCIA for a full year studying about doctrine and my obligations as a Catholic. As a full time LDS missionary we would usually give three very basic memorized discussions and then issue a Baptismal challenge at the end of the third discussion. It was usually a pressure situation where "No" was not accepted as an answer.

No Ownership

The Churches have MUCH MORE OWNERSHIP over your ancestors than YOU do! People identify themselves as a member of a Church and that identification holds more power and weight than family ties -- that is why people leave their families in order to be baptized into another Church. This is especially common for people who join the Mormon Church. No other Church is so parasitic upon other Christian Churches than the Mormons. They send their 50,000 missionaries out to create dissatisfaction among Catholics by telling them a distorted story about a "Great Apostasy". Then they rip people away from their families and away from their Church to make them into Mormons. This is offensive enough. But then they want to take these victims of indoctrination and use them as a foothold into the Catholic records so they can do pagan baptisms for the dead. Just because you have the same last name as someone else does not give you "ownership" over them and their records. YOU HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OVER YOUR ANCESTORS!

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