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Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Genealogist

I have to repeat myself: you have still access to the archives of the catholic church and this will never stop to happen! Nobody is asking you for your religion when you enter a catholic archive. It`s now a bit harder for the american genealogists and LDS Members, but there allready now a lot of records not microfilmed by the LDS. Who has for example complained about the protestant church in germany? They refuse to let their records filmed since the seventies, because they think the LDS are not christian and a syncretic religion. Most catholic Dioceses in Poland allready refused microfilming their records. The pope is just going a step further after writing the essay about not accepting the LDS Baptizm of living people (as a leader of the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"). Take a deep breath and plan your next visit to europe and the church archives here.

all hail the moderator

I think that the posthumous baptism records
will be used later to show how many LDS members were there historically,

it seems like stealing souls

shawilli

The parish records belong to the catholic church, they are theirs to do with as they see fit, it is a prvillage NOT a right for the LDS Church to have access to them.I hope that this policy may be changed in the future but, for the present it is what it is and we must simply accept that. The work of the Temple goes on and on even without access to Catholic parish records, we shall simply move into another area of labor for those whose records are available to us. We shall have enough temple work ahead of us to last through the Millenium, so rather than cry foul lets move on and wait for the day when we can once again glean from the parish records the information we need. I am sure that Heaveanly Father knows of this matter and will deal with it in his own way and in his own due time.
Shawilli

Riley

I was a catholic until age 21 when I converted to the LDS Church. I actually have no problem at all with this pronouncement, and I still have much geneological work to do. It will open up an honest dialogue on doctrinal truth that, as evidenced by this move, has not been had in the past. It will foster a better understanding of mutual beliefs and I'm confident that President Monson will find a way to prevail upon the leaders of the great Catholic faith to allow us (LDSs) to know our progenitors' histories. I am not worried and no one else should be either. The end has only to be played out...all will have an opportunity to accept or reject the restoration of the gospel. For my part, if I've offended my Catholic brethren and family I'd love to sit down and explain my motives, namely, to draw nearer to my predecessors thorugh temple work. I also would like to apologize for the missionaries in Colorado who defaced your monuments. I'm not sure if their actions had anything to do with the decision, but if so, I offer my personal regrets. God Bless.

Anonymous

You folks who think the Catholic church is right, how would you feel if you were trying to research your ancestors, (it would be almost impossible to research without the Lds database.) and the LDS church said that you had to have a temple recomend to view? I would be upset as a non-member. They are my relatives. That is exactly what the Catholic church is saying. The Lds church is doing everyone a favor allowing ancestry research regardless of creed to search out ancestors from the comfort of their own computers. If you don't do geneology then it doesn't matter, however there are tons of people that do. I am not LDS but love geneology and would hate to have to go to a foreign country if the Lds church was doing that for free. I have found plenty of records off the database that would have cost me thousands to fly to the countries and search the records. I hope the Catholic church changes this bigoted policy.

Anonymous

Temple work is not christian nor are these unauthorized baptisms. I think this is only yhe first we have seen of this with other christian faiths following suit.

re: Anonymous 11:54

"You folks who think the Catholic church is right, how would you feel if you were trying to research your ancestors, (it would be almost impossible to research without the Lds database.) and the LDS church said that you had to have a temple recomend to view? I would be upset as a non-member. They are my relatives."


Upset?...They are my relatives?

Hmmmm....I wonder if this is how a Catholic mother feels when she is denied entrance to the temple to witness the marriage of a child who converted to Mormonism?

Alex

Anonymous:

If LDS temple work is neither christian nor authorized, then why would it matter? Heck, the genealogical records we record are available to the public as a service. Yep, they are available to you too if you wish. If I weren't a believing Latter-Day Saint, I would look at the LDS and say, "Hey, go ahead and knock yourself out. It is no skin off my nose."

no second chance

"
Julie | 12:48 a.m. May 4, 2008
I'm still trying to figure out why it bothers people that mormons do baptisms for the dead if non-mormons don't believe that it has any effect."

"
amen | 1:10 a.m. May 4, 2008
I completely agree with Julie... If it is "erroneous" in their view, then what is the big deal?"

Because it is 'erroneous', or, a false doctrine. The same reason that we wouldn't worship another God, even though we don't believe in other Gods. It would have no effect beyond dishonoring the doctrine of worshiping Almighty God, and blaspheming. We know it to be a pagan practice, therefore we want no part of it.
Scripture plainly teaches that if one waits until they have died, they have waited too long. There are no second chances after death. This is why it is a big deal.

All Get Along

This proves that religion is just one big fat source of contention in the world. Let's bulldoze ALL the churches and put in parks. Everybody get out and get some exercise and go be nice to your neighbors. Give your donations to an organization that helps the poor, starving and sick not into maintaining real estate. Then maybe you'll feel like getting off the prozac and find something better to do than gossip and judge your neighbors.

lie in the bed that you've made

"
Still sane | 8:27 a.m. May 4, 2008
So once again "Christians" fight other "Christians" - oh, except the others don't believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christian anyway. so, I guess it must be OK."

Yes, it is okay. We are all free to believe as we will. We are all responsible for our own faith and the doctrines that we choose to adhere to. LDS believe that others are wrong, so why do they find it strange that others believe that they are wrong? Please, let go of the persecution complex.

Julie

The main negative response to my earlier comment seems to stem from a misunderstanding about the doctrine of baptism for the dead. Those for whom it is performed have a choice of whether or not they want to accept this ordinance. It is not revisionist history as claimed by one commentor because I believe the records of who has been baptized for the dead are kept private in the church. Mormons don't claim that anyone who has been baptized for the dead is now "mormon." In response to other criticism, feel free to baptize me into any other church or make me a member of any organization. I don't mind because I don't believe it has any eternal effect or consequences.

Dear Cuts Both Ways

The LDS Church would not say one single thing about anothe Church doing baptism for the dead and rebaptizing our members because they think we have fallen from the truth. You apparently do not know the 11th article of faith where we allow others to practice their religion and ask the same of them to let us allow our religion.

I wonder if the catholic church believe in agency, the great and wonderful gift from God to make our own decision. If we baptize them and they don't wan that baptism then it is null and void.

GBH Quote

President Gordon B. Hinckley: "If there is trouble, let us face it calmly. Let us overcome evil with good."

Sumiko Honda

As a young Catholic, I don't think that the Vatican should engage in ecumenical dialog with any other branch of Christianity except for the Greek Orthodox. There are so many sects, groups, cults, and "churches" with traditions and views so different from Catholic and also from each other, that it is pointless waste of time.
Regardless if the LDS is offended by this new Vatican ruling, it was done to protect the private registry of members of Catholic parishes, and to keep bizarre practices away from the Catholic Church.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to protect your own faithful (Catholics)

marvic ilagan

julie is right. and i know baptism for the dead is a doctrine of God.

To: No 2d Chance

My understanding is that the Catholics have believed that the living have the opportunity to affect the amount of time that a deceased soul spends in Purgatory. The time might be reduced through prayers (prayer candles) and earlier there was sale of indulgences for the dead. This doctrine that the living can change the outcome for the dead is a "similar" teaching held by the the LDS church. Other similar teachings include Extreme Unction and LDS annointing of the sick. Of all other Christian faiths, I would think that the Catholics very well understand LDS ministrations in behalf of the dead. I think it is in their understanding, not their misunderstanding that they abhor the LDS practice. They understand the doctrines of authority and keys very well, and have a very deep concern for the outcome of a deceased soul now having the choice of which of the two churches to have membership in.

"Holy" Father

The pope can't pray for the world - because that includes me (a mormon). If I wanted the pope to pray for the world (including me) then I would become a catholic. By the way, how does the catholic church have ownership over my ancestors? They are witholding info about my ancestors. . . talk about respect for the dead (and living).

Vicki

Is there not something called free will? If the deceased person wanted to be Mormon, he/she would be. It's not for a "family" member to make that choice. That is an abomination in my book.

On Limbo

While some Catholics might believe in Limbo, it was never Church Doctrine but people doctrine...like the Adam/God Doctrine, blood atonement and other teachings of the LDS Church.
As the Jewish people were offended by temple work for the dead, especially the Holocaust victims, why not wait until the Resurrection and allow these people to make the choice for themselves? Based on the size of past and present populations, we are not going to catch up as the temple currently functions. It really would be similar for the Catholics to approach the LDS Church to state that all LDS marriages are not valid and wish to give the children produced legitimacy by marrying the parents after their death into the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Would the LDS Church willingly hand over records? My magic eight-ball says "not likely."

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