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Comments about ‘Catholics told not to give LDS parish data’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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G Jiles

It is now official the LDS church and its practices are not christian. The Pope has spoken and so let this pass.

response to Truth Sayer

Good post!
to "pj" who responded to it....spoken like a true fundamentalist. Bet I can guess your church affiliation.

To the Rev:

You can proxy-baptize me into your church - doesn't mean I'm going to accept it, though.

Clark

First the FLDS fiasco and now this. I certainly say the LDS church has an uphill battle in establishing legitimacy as a respectable faith.

Surprised

In answer to a number of commenters who wonder if an LDS member would be offended if the Catholic Church or FLDS decided to do ordinances or rituals for my deceased ancestors, the answer is no. I am not offended, but rather appreciative of their friendship when my Catholic friends have lit candles for my deceased mother-in-law. I simply refuse to let Catholic Church's position on this destroy the wonderful friendships I have with numerous Catholics. Though I am confused at the logic of Catholic Church's position, as an LDS member, I refuse to take offense at it. Hopefully, someday, sooner rather than later, there will be more of a meeting of minds between Catholics and Mormons on this issue.

Rob

We live in a digital age. It means there are new kinds of dangers. It's understandable if the Catholic or Jewish leaders think the LDS church has secret plans to use all this data they are collecting on people and families to do something other than what they say they are doing, which is performing proxy ordinances. I'm sure there are some people who think the LDS church's explanation for why they do geneology is just to hide some more sinister plot. The LDS church knows well the threats of someone else writing their history. But the solution is not for every church to shut their doors and try to keep people away from historical materials, but rather to create their own databases similar to the LDS churches vast geneological records so they can keep the LDS church or any other entity that they think may be a threat to them in check.

Shadow

Let me try to get through all of this with a scenario. Let's pretend that the Mormon faithful and their authorities are asked by the Christian Church of the Magic Wand to turn over their membership records, living and dead, so that the Christian Church of the Magic Wand, can do some ceremonies in which the little fingers of the dead turn into magic wands and that that will please God according to the Christian Church of the Magic Wand.

Would Mormon authorities cooperate?

And that is why the Roman Catholic Church has said no. It is about time.

Note: I am not a Catholic but I certainly understand where they are coming from on this. Let's have a little respect for the dead... and for a Christian Church of more than a thousand years.

The Shadow Knows

Rob


As to people thinking its disrespectful to perform proxy ordinances of baptism, well that is understandable to. It's just because they don't understand the doctrine and they have been told things about the work that simply aren't true. For example, in high school my sister dated a guy that was not LDS. He asked her, "what's this dipping for the dead that your church does? Do you really baptize dead people?" Once she explained that we don't baptise dead people, what baptisms for the dead were, and why we do them he didn't have any more problem with it. Maybe this will all lead eventually to more openness and sharing of historical materials, and other churches will build their own geneological libraries that will be shared with the public.

russ

I know this might sound... well... small... but if God is God, then wouldn't be kind of silly to think that God needs us to write out a list of anything, or baptize for the dead, etc. Wouldn't just a single prayer, group shot as it may be, cover everything?

My God is the master of the universe. I don't know the size of yours. Mine is omnipotent. Omnipresent. The beginning and the end. He or She does not need us, we need him. When one believes that we have a mission to do things and without that being done, God's will will be thwarted ... is to prove that our God is too small.

Get a bigger God. Relax about the baptisms for the dead. Good grief.

Great Point, Russ

The focus on the trivial trivializes the power of God. As though God spends all day keeping track of who was baptized by proxy...

Robert

As an devout Latter-day Saint, I hold no ill feeling towards the pope and still respect him for the stand that he has made. He has made a decree for what he feels is the protection of those who trust him to protect the sanctity of the flock.

It was an honest act upon his part in good faith. The pope has made many such proclamations that talk about defending what he believes to be right.

Let us hope that he can see our efforts to make our records available to all people. It is our hope that others will feel like we are friendly and open to all walks of life to access records for the benefit of their families.

I do make this plea, what benefit do we get out of doing this work for others if our work is for naught? Isnt that the same as priests going and praying over the dead? Even if we claim that ours is the true authority....do they not also do the same?

Let us pray to work together. I work to respect others faith, I hope others respect mine.

Rob

Russ,

Your knowledge of the doctrine of baptisms for the dead is very weak. You obviously aren't aware it was taught and practices in early christendom and that the Bible supports it.

God certainly is omnipotent, etc. but that doesn't mean he is going to snap his fingers and we are going to turn into good smart people. Even God is subject to certain rules. For example, omnipotent means God can do anything right? Well then can he make a rock bigger and heavier than he can lift?

PJ

To Truth Sayers fans

No, you're wrong again, you are now only removing all doubt as to whether or not you have any cognitive abilities. We get it, you don't.

Fundamentalist's of any faith don't subscribe to baptisms for the dead. This is unique to Mormons.

Again, John 3:5, 1st Corinthians 15:29.
Available for all to see in every Christian bible.

Look, when you still think Revelations was the last book written in the Bible, then there is not even a starting point with one, so ignorant.

And to all who want the genealogical records for ancestry and ordinances performed, they are available on the Ancestral file and IGA, already.
Again, moot points of concern.

The Catholic ban is only for Mormons. If they do allow public access in the USA, it must be for all or none. The US constitution assures us of that.

If anybody for any reason wants to perform a ritual for my soul, then have at it.

Light me a candle, sacrifice a worm, pray to your 7 headed Deity, commune with aliens, channell the mystic beyond, whatever. I say to you, ta. I'm honored.

If it's not fattening, immoral, or indecent, carry on.

re: Rob | 4:34 p.m.

What are you talking about sinister plots? Thats bizarre. Did you even read the article? The Vatican clearly said why it did not want to deseminate the data:

due to the confidentiality of the faithful and as not to cooperate with the erroneous practices of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Vatican does not want the confidentiality of any living members breached. Additionally, they believe like all other Christian churches that the practice of baptism for the dead is wrong and heretical, and the Catholics do not want to condone something that contradicts their beliefs. The LDS Church will not get the Vatican to back down on their statement...its clearly based in their theology.

I don't get it.....

If the intent of the Catholic church is to prevent Mormon temple stuff from happening, then they are essentially saying the Mormon rituals have an impact on the dead. Are they saying the Mormon rituals make dead Catholics into dead Mormons? Sounds like fear is the culprit. Do whatever religious rite you want with my name when I'm dead. I believe Christ will be the judge so whether the Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddists, or whatever faith does something with my name, I don't believe Christ will condemn me for anything they do. If Christ requires one of the religions to do something for me so I can be in heaven, then great, hopefully one of them is right and the things the others do won't negate what the one right one does. Ignorance breeds fear & hate.

it's rude

It's rude and shows a lack of respect for people of other faiths to baptise their dead. Even though I don't believe it will do anything because I don't believe in anything LDS. I do find very offensive that a group would try to undermine a person who has made their choice about their god and their faith. You may think you are doing good but I find it offensive. Sorry that is just what I think and I think you should get the family's permission before doing anything with their dead loved ones.

Ain't no thang

I'm LDS, converted from Catholicism 8 years ago. This doesn't bother me or offend me at all. We should respect the wishes of the Catholic Church. To me it is akin to obeying the laws of the land.

The plan of salvation, most specifically salvation for the dead, is what helped seal the deal of my conversion. I realized that if Jesus Christ and his Gospel truly is the way to salvation (John 14:6), then everyone would have to do the same exact things to be saved. And with the same ordinances being done for everyone, then all mankind will get the same exact chance to accept or reject it. That told me that God is completely fair.

If indeed the LDS Church is the true church, and our doctrine is true, then God will not leave people hanging just because access to their records was denied. He will work out things fairly in the end. Let's trust in Him and move on.

Just Curious

What does the Mormon Church believe is the purpose baptism? I never thought about it until reading all these posts.

What?

Someone above referred to God as "He or She"? Please read St John 15:18-21. If you don't know who God is, then what are you worshipping?

Shelley

Hey, I've got a compromise.

Not so very many years ago, the Jews were offended to discover that some Holocaust victims had been given proxy baptisms. Out of respect for the history and feelings of those of another faith, the LDS Church no longer allows its members to perform proxy baptisms for Jews unless the member involved can show family ties to the ancestor being proxied.

That way, we are showing consideration for the opinions and emotions of our friends of another faith, but the rights of people to provide what they see as a service to their beloved ancestors is also not being smothered. Why not do the same thing for the Catholics, if they feel offended by the ordinance of proxy baptism for the dead?

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