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Utah, Arizona AGs feel fallout from FLDS raid
83 comments | Read story
Jeff | 2:38 a.m. May 4, 2008
You're darn right they went too far! "Every" child taken from
"every" mother by raiders of the state is government overreach of
constitutional proportions. This should concern everyone. These
people�s rights have been trampled on in a horrific manner.
Now, we will no doubt hear the clamor and rage of people commenting in this
very venue over the coming hours. They will of course expound on charges of
"child rape," as if any decent person on the planet wouldn't
categorically denounce such a heinous crime, though no evidence of any such
crime has heretofore been presented in the case at hand. Where such crimes
exist, they should of course be vigorously prosecuted. But the tirades of
certain commentators are intended only to shock the sensitivities of people who
are already abundantly aware of the same misdeeds that have been reported ad
nauseam. Bottom line: There are too many people today �
Americans, mind you � who would condone the use of
government power not merely to prosecute criminals, but as a means for cultural
cleansing. They would wink at the shredding of individual rights while quietly
delighting in the state-run destruction of a culture they find personally
offensive.
Contrarian | 4:31 a.m. May 4, 2008
Last weekend DN reported that nine FLDS children had been hospitalized, and one
baby had become so dehydrated that he/she was lethargic and had gone into shock.
But this disturbing news disappeared from the news to be replaced by stories of
old bone breaks shown on x-rays, and now an article about the Utah AG in
relation to polygamy. What happened to the hospitalized children?
Comments continue below
awesomeron | 4:39 a.m. May 4, 2008
Yes the Texas AG, did put pressure on both Shurtleff and Goddard. They now are
forced to do something. The amount of force that Texas used was not all that
overwhelming considering WACO, and you do not know what they the FLDS have or
how willing they are to die. It appears though that like most Rapist they are
cowards and anyone standing up to them is to much for them to handle. They can
Rape and Beat Women and Children but a small Police Force with one used War
Surplus Half Track is to much of a show of Force. When Goddard was running for
Gov in Arizona, I lived in Safford and I Voted about 5 min to 7PM. I wanted
Goddard to know that if he lost by one Vote it was mine. Utah and Arizona have
ignored this problems for decades. I really have nothing against Polygamists
that other wise obey the Law and do not claim to be LDS Church Members. Plural
Marriage has been around for Thousands of years. What I have an issue with is
forced marriage and Sex with underage girls and beating children. We call that
Rape and Child Abuse
.
.
RIGHT ON | 4:40 a.m. May 4, 2008
Shurtleff is RIGHT ON.
Even under TEXAS LAW how can they justify going into ALL THE PRIVATE HOMES of any community and taking ALL THE CHILDREN without poof against that specific PRIVATE HOME. Maybe in North Korea but, not in the good old U. S. of A.
Even under TEXAS LAW how can they justify going into ALL THE PRIVATE HOMES of any community and taking ALL THE CHILDREN without poof against that specific PRIVATE HOME. Maybe in North Korea but, not in the good old U. S. of A.
Paul | 5:38 a.m. May 4, 2008
Return the kidnapped children to their parents. No arrests have been made, no
charges have been filed, and no complaints have been levied. No proof of abuse
or neglect has been found. Stop violating the civil rights of this community.
The state authorities should follow the US Constitution. CPS, as an agency of
the government, should be forced to operate in a way that will not circumvent
nor contradict the Fourth Amendment. Federal law should trump state procedures.
Also, free the adult women who are being held as wards of the state as if they
were orphaned children just because some social worker subjectively decides that
they look like they're under 18. Come on, Texas. This should be common
sense!
JND | 6:12 a.m. May 4, 2008
Hey Shurtleff! I guess that explains it. You make the call based on your gut. In
Texas we go by the law.
Thomas | 6:22 a.m. May 4, 2008
Leave these people alone.
Darrel | 6:28 a.m. May 4, 2008
Reluctant, but makes judgments anyway.
Even though Utahans view FLDS as a minor aberration, the rest of the country see them as extremely abnormal: in every respect.
Even though Utahans view FLDS as a minor aberration, the rest of the country see them as extremely abnormal: in every respect.
Law 101 | 6:44 a.m. May 4, 2008
It's the AG's job to enforce the law and prosecute lawbreakers, not
fret about possible constitutional challenges.
If the anti-polygamy laws are thrown out then the legislature can craft new ones or legalize polygamy.
That will the job of the legislature, however, not Shurtleff.
Until the laws are enforced no one will know and the inevitable collateral abuse will continue.
ENFORCE THE LAW
If the anti-polygamy laws are thrown out then the legislature can craft new ones or legalize polygamy.
That will the job of the legislature, however, not Shurtleff.
Until the laws are enforced no one will know and the inevitable collateral abuse will continue.
ENFORCE THE LAW
excuses excuses excuses | 6:55 a.m. May 4, 2008
>>"They have extended an olive branch to polygamous communities with
one hand � while clasping a pair of handcuffs in the
other."
Maybe, but if so it is a rusty unused pair of handcuffs (don't make me pull out the Barney Fife analogies!)
But, whatever the AG has in his hands is not very relevant because he has had one eye closed and the other looking away.
It is a tough job bering a social worker and prosecutor; too tough, in fact.
But that shouldn't concern Shurtleff because he isn't a social worker.
Please no more excuses about resources and building bridges and trust.
(Yes, we know the list of folks who have been locked up. Congratulations. It is the thousands who haven't made the list we are thinking of, however.)
Maybe, but if so it is a rusty unused pair of handcuffs (don't make me pull out the Barney Fife analogies!)
But, whatever the AG has in his hands is not very relevant because he has had one eye closed and the other looking away.
It is a tough job bering a social worker and prosecutor; too tough, in fact.
But that shouldn't concern Shurtleff because he isn't a social worker.
Please no more excuses about resources and building bridges and trust.
(Yes, we know the list of folks who have been locked up. Congratulations. It is the thousands who haven't made the list we are thinking of, however.)
accessories before the fact | 7:02 a.m. May 4, 2008
Ignoring illegal polygamy while going after the resultant abuse and fraud is a
recipe for perpetual abuse and fraud.
The solution to a leaking roof isn't to buy more buckets to catch the drip.
It is cruel to the women and children who are the victims of the predictable and inevitable abuse to simply wait outside the compounds with stretchers to cart away the human wreckage.
The solution to a leaking roof isn't to buy more buckets to catch the drip.
It is cruel to the women and children who are the victims of the predictable and inevitable abuse to simply wait outside the compounds with stretchers to cart away the human wreckage.
olive branches and handcuffs | 7:27 a.m. May 4, 2008
I was pleasantly surprised to hear Utah authorities ever have anything in their
hands.
Anytime I have seen them they are wringing their hands about how hard their job is.
Anytime I have seen them they are wringing their hands about how hard their job is.
Logical thinker, duh! | 8:49 a.m. May 4, 2008
Think about it. The only way you could prosecute bigamy or polygamy is if the
marriage were performed by authorities and/or without the knowledge of the other
wife. Without this it is no different than adultery which apparently is not
against the law - try prosecuting it. Are we going to start rounding up all
adulterers (might not be a bad idea). Men keep mistresses, secret from their
wives. They lie and emotionally abuse their families. These people should be
identified and punished.
We live in an immoral society where casual sex is accepted and even embraced, teen pregnancies are rampant across the nation and often the young girls are impregnated by a legal adult (18 or over), but how often do we prosecute? We consider that to be their freedom to choose. The polygamists are no different in that way so you can't prosecute them for breaking a law if they are consenting adults having free sex just because they have someone without authority conducting a ceremony. Who's protecting these offspring?
If they are children, there's a case but you don't round up all polygamists who had the ceremony rather than just sex and lock up the victims.
We live in an immoral society where casual sex is accepted and even embraced, teen pregnancies are rampant across the nation and often the young girls are impregnated by a legal adult (18 or over), but how often do we prosecute? We consider that to be their freedom to choose. The polygamists are no different in that way so you can't prosecute them for breaking a law if they are consenting adults having free sex just because they have someone without authority conducting a ceremony. Who's protecting these offspring?
If they are children, there's a case but you don't round up all polygamists who had the ceremony rather than just sex and lock up the victims.
TexAnne | 9:04 a.m. May 4, 2008
Interesting, there's a Polygamy Summit this week. Check this Deseret News
article, put / after .com and then paste this at the end:
article/1,5143,695276285,00.html
Law? | 9:06 a.m. May 4, 2008
Utah doesn't enforce any law that I know of. There are still women from
polygamous areas that go into the grocery stores using food stamps and WIC
certificates. When my husband died, I was told that I didn't qualify for
any of that, so how come the polygamous women rate? There are laws on the books
banning polygamy--and even more laws against food stamp fraud. Shurtleff should
take a look at what he ISN'T doing, because what he is doing isn't
much.
Dave | 9:28 a.m. May 4, 2008
""One of the best things you can say about Arizona and Utah is (the
FLDS) went to Texas to get away from us," Goddard said.
Lovely.
Apparently Goddard and Shurtleff don't really care if child sexual abuse occurs. Just as long as it doesn't happen in their jurisdiction.
Lovely.
Apparently Goddard and Shurtleff don't really care if child sexual abuse occurs. Just as long as it doesn't happen in their jurisdiction.
Rule of Law | 9:37 a.m. May 4, 2008
Polygamy is against the law. Child rape is against the law. What part of ILLEGAL
do you not understand?
transplant | 9:53 a.m. May 4, 2008
"every" child from "every" Mother.... Every child was
rescued from every abusive adult who are either a predator or who stood by and
allowed the abuse AND as required, under Texas law, DID NOT REPORT IT TO THE
AUTHORITIES. They live under Texas law while they live in Texas. They need to
take some lessons from the Penn. and Ohio Amish. They live their own way and
obey the laws of the state. Texas may have gone too far with the polygamy part
of the law as they have allowed these relationships to exist without prosecuting
the individuals. We either have to start now, my wish, or amend the law. As it
stands these spiritual marriages are actual marriages under Texas common law
marriage. Therefore fully prosecutable.
Bruce | 10:02 a.m. May 4, 2008
"In Texas we go by the law"
In 2006 alone there were 63 reported cases of rape of children while in the state of Texas' care.
You'll pardon the rest of the nation for shuddering when "Texas" and "law" are used in the same sentence.
The polygamist lifestyle and the actions of individuals are separate issues.
Texas CPS should be shut down and the individuals that participated in this illegal raid should be held personally responsible.
Texas had better get out it's checkbook when the truth about this is brought out.
In 2006 alone there were 63 reported cases of rape of children while in the state of Texas' care.
You'll pardon the rest of the nation for shuddering when "Texas" and "law" are used in the same sentence.
The polygamist lifestyle and the actions of individuals are separate issues.
Texas CPS should be shut down and the individuals that participated in this illegal raid should be held personally responsible.
Texas had better get out it's checkbook when the truth about this is brought out.
Mary | 10:14 a.m. May 4, 2008
You can read the Bishop's list at myeldorado dot net it lists Elisabeth
Lawrence Jessop 16 married to LeRay Steed 28 who has 2 other wives.
Rachel Keele Allred 16 married to Lehi Allred 28 who has 2 other wives.
Suzanne Jessup Jeffs 16 married to Abram Hacker Jeffs 35 has 4 other wives.
There are 2 other 16 yr old brides listed married to younger men, 19 and 22 (if memory serves) they are listed as the only spouse.
You can also get to the list through flds eldorado.
Rachel Keele Allred 16 married to Lehi Allred 28 who has 2 other wives.
Suzanne Jessup Jeffs 16 married to Abram Hacker Jeffs 35 has 4 other wives.
There are 2 other 16 yr old brides listed married to younger men, 19 and 22 (if memory serves) they are listed as the only spouse.
You can also get to the list through flds eldorado.
Anonymous | 10:20 a.m. May 4, 2008
dont forget these same women on food stamps are driving the nicest/newest
suv's in the parking lot.
transplant | 10:30 a.m. May 4, 2008
GLOBE and MAIL : "Ms. Jensen broke away from the church at age 17. Her
family had moved to an FLDS community in the U.S. three years earlier and she
had been assigned to an American husband she did not want to marry. She said she
does not regard the FLDS as a religion.
"This is an abusive cult."
Our problem; how to legislate to protect our own rights but monitor, oversee, regulate their's. It's a legal dilemma however one rational, educated minds can overcome. Mine is working on it. I'll be raising the issue with candidates for the Texas State Legislature.
"This is an abusive cult."
Our problem; how to legislate to protect our own rights but monitor, oversee, regulate their's. It's a legal dilemma however one rational, educated minds can overcome. Mine is working on it. I'll be raising the issue with candidates for the Texas State Legislature.
polygamy | 11:14 a.m. May 4, 2008
why are you guys so upset about polygamy? I know plenty of men who have children
with several women. Some they were married to, some they were not. At least with
spirit wives the guys feel a bit responsible. Forcing underage girls into a
marriage is rape. That needs to be persecuted but polygamy, it is all around us.
We just don't call it that, we call it riff raff but essentially it is the
same, regardless of how it is stated in the law. There is no evidence that the
FLDS abused their children. The only thing to be persecuted should be child rape
with the children returned to their moms!!
wm | 11:45 a.m. May 4, 2008
Authorities found that 35 of 51 minor girls were either pregnant or already had
children. If the FLDS are locking these children away in order to shield them
from our "immoral" society - they aren't doing a very good job of
it. Underage pregnancy statistics are better at my local public school!
Anonymous | 11:54 a.m. May 4, 2008
Why don't the people of Utah and Arizona care about the children?
The young girls are forced to sexual relationships at puberty.
The young boys are forced out due to the math problem. There is not engough girls for all to have multiple wives.
Why don't you force your Attorney General out, he is not interested in upholding the law.
The young girls are forced to sexual relationships at puberty.
The young boys are forced out due to the math problem. There is not engough girls for all to have multiple wives.
Why don't you force your Attorney General out, he is not interested in upholding the law.
transplant | 12:08 p.m. May 4, 2008
why us guys are upset over polygamy: Oyeah at sltrib: "The
worlds where Polygamy exists, result in backwards evolution for us as a species.
Birth defects rise in number, and education for women is non-existent, except
for the very well placed, and young males are devalued except as tools of war.
Those armies of rapists in Somalia, are the extra sons. The armies of Ghengis Khan, were extra sons. The militias and personal armies of warlords all over Africa, the Middle East, and Pakistan, are the extra sons, that cannot marry, but can carry a gun."
***education education education. That it is so lacking in the citizens who have the advantage of twelve years of free education and access to all the written knowledge of the free world is frightening.
Those armies of rapists in Somalia, are the extra sons. The armies of Ghengis Khan, were extra sons. The militias and personal armies of warlords all over Africa, the Middle East, and Pakistan, are the extra sons, that cannot marry, but can carry a gun."
***education education education. That it is so lacking in the citizens who have the advantage of twelve years of free education and access to all the written knowledge of the free world is frightening.
Young Children | 12:08 p.m. May 4, 2008
He's right in my opinion. The youngest children should not have been taken
away. I think that it's terrible to take a baby from the arms of it's
mother,or a small child.
These women are confused, but they are not dangerous. Their children are so clean and tidy and well behaved at the grocery stores, and I have never seen one that looked abused. They look much better than most kids.
Believe it or not, the women don't appear to be depressed or unhappy with their lives. I have observed this, living near to an FLDS group. I have never understood it, but they actually like their lifestyle. You see them in the craft stores, you see them all over town. They don't appear to be a troubled group.
I am not defending the abuse of young girls. But I do think that if most people were to live around them, you would see that they are a very peaceful people.
These women are confused, but they are not dangerous. Their children are so clean and tidy and well behaved at the grocery stores, and I have never seen one that looked abused. They look much better than most kids.
Believe it or not, the women don't appear to be depressed or unhappy with their lives. I have observed this, living near to an FLDS group. I have never understood it, but they actually like their lifestyle. You see them in the craft stores, you see them all over town. They don't appear to be a troubled group.
I am not defending the abuse of young girls. But I do think that if most people were to live around them, you would see that they are a very peaceful people.
Jake | 12:33 p.m. May 4, 2008
To Polygamy,
Yeah you are right. The more wives, the more slave service, and the more one supreme man can set around on his rump all day, and talk online to potential anonymous wives. Now hows that for a superior life style. If you ever notice on tv it's the women who are also in the gardens and the ones tilling and tending the fields for food. The men hangout behind closed doors.
Yeah you are right. The more wives, the more slave service, and the more one supreme man can set around on his rump all day, and talk online to potential anonymous wives. Now hows that for a superior life style. If you ever notice on tv it's the women who are also in the gardens and the ones tilling and tending the fields for food. The men hangout behind closed doors.
JND | 12:51 p.m. May 4, 2008
Hey, Bruce!
"Texas had better get out it's checkbook when the truth about this is brought out."
You better get yours out. You'll need the money to travel to Texas to visit your friends in prison.
Love you!
"Texas had better get out it's checkbook when the truth about this is brought out."
You better get yours out. You'll need the money to travel to Texas to visit your friends in prison.
Love you!
To Jake | 1:19 p.m. May 4, 2008
Do you suppose the FLDS women built the cement plant, the cheese plant, the
temple, and the homes on the FLDS property?
Polygamy offers clear advantages to women who want to have several children and be at home to raise them and educate them.
In our time most American women must chemically or surgically alter themselves to prevent having more than one or two children; when they do have babies they cannot nurse them because they must go back to work outside the home; as the children grow they must be farmed out to daycare and then they are abandoned to state indoctrination at public schools and the "education" of the ubiquitous television. Working women rarely have time to learn anything about gardening, cooking, or nutrition, but feed their families processed foods which have dubious nutritional value. Looking at the photos and videos of the people at YFZ ranch could make a lot of over-worked, underpaid, part-time mothers think about polygamy in a different light.
Polygamy offers clear advantages to women who want to have several children and be at home to raise them and educate them.
In our time most American women must chemically or surgically alter themselves to prevent having more than one or two children; when they do have babies they cannot nurse them because they must go back to work outside the home; as the children grow they must be farmed out to daycare and then they are abandoned to state indoctrination at public schools and the "education" of the ubiquitous television. Working women rarely have time to learn anything about gardening, cooking, or nutrition, but feed their families processed foods which have dubious nutritional value. Looking at the photos and videos of the people at YFZ ranch could make a lot of over-worked, underpaid, part-time mothers think about polygamy in a different light.
JAKE & not a fake | 1:36 p.m. May 4, 2008
RE RE To Jake 1:19 Find your own name! Please don't post mine.
Why do your FLDS woman seek food stamps and welfare if you men are such bread winners?
As far as mainstream woman who are NOT slaves. That is their choice to work if they want to help out. And their are a very small few who have abortions from either incest and rape, do you understand incest or rape? You need to go look up what you sit around and scold non FLDS women about. At least our women can think for themselves and are not zombies brainwashed by a bunch of bullies!
Why do your FLDS woman seek food stamps and welfare if you men are such bread winners?
As far as mainstream woman who are NOT slaves. That is their choice to work if they want to help out. And their are a very small few who have abortions from either incest and rape, do you understand incest or rape? You need to go look up what you sit around and scold non FLDS women about. At least our women can think for themselves and are not zombies brainwashed by a bunch of bullies!
The Law | 1:46 p.m. May 4, 2008
Horah for Shurtliff Leave the polygamists alone if no crimes against humaniy are
committed. Warren Jeffs alone is destroying the culture of the Utah and Ariona
polygs. So many of hem have come out in the open to be a part of society. I
myself am a polygamist who left with my family to the outside world. I have
turned against the FLDS way of life, but I will not abandon any of my plural
families. I love them all dearly and we are able to adapt well independantly
without hiding who we are.
If we want to totally go thru the criminal code to arrest all law breakers, lets start with all the dads who might share a beer with their 18 year old son during the super bowl game. ya know alcahol to a minor. it is illegal even at home.
If we want to totally go thru the criminal code to arrest all law breakers, lets start with all the dads who might share a beer with their 18 year old son during the super bowl game. ya know alcahol to a minor. it is illegal even at home.
knowitall | 1:58 p.m. May 4, 2008
In a community of about 700 FLDS members, 31 girls, which is about 60% of the
underage girls were pregnant or had delivered a baby. DNA testing will reveal
that these children were fathered, not by the teen boys, but by the adult men
who did not show up for testing and appear to have fled the compound. Doing the
math, Utah and Arizona have 442 girls currently in the same situation. The FLDS
compound in Texas is relatively new while the Short Creek population has existed
for decades, so it would not be unreasonable to suppose that some 5000 girls
have been raped in Short Creek. In this article, the Utah and Arizona attorneys
general cite 4 Utah cases, 6 Arizona cases and 3 combined cases against the
FLDS. Shurtleff blames a lack of resources and Goddard blames ineffective laws.
Shurtleff worries that the Texas raid will harm the trust he has built with the
FLDS. NEWSFLASH-GIVEN NUMBERS LIKE THESE 99.9% OF THESE MINOR GIRLS ARE STILL
BEING RAPED. BECOME A LEADER - GET THE FUNDING, PASS THE LAWS AND CONVINCE THE
PUBLIC THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.
Non-believer | 2:30 p.m. May 4, 2008
Texas went too far, but at least they have tried to protect the innocent. Utah
and Arizona officials have been cowards in this situation. Sure Shurtless brags
about the trust he has with the FLDS people. They absolutely trust him TO DO
NOTHING regardless of what is getting hurt. He is a disgrace. He is so busy
covering his backside so he can keep his job.
Wait and see | 2:46 p.m. May 4, 2008
I have spent too much time thinking about this. Now, I have decided that I will
just wait and see what happens. Honestly, people have taken such strong sides on
this issue - just read the postings on this story. Why should everyone be
armchair prosecutors in this case? In my opinion, the consititution of the US is
at stake here.
James | 2:50 p.m. May 4, 2008
The recent publicity causes great harm to Utah's worldwide reputation and
diminishes future economic viability of the State and the Mormon church.
Shurtleff is rightly under the Worlds spot light and is fighting for his
political life for a perceived failure to take sufficient action on Polygamy
crimes of the FLDS and others in Utah. Shurtleff is suggesting he has lead a
concerted effort to investigate the est.+60,000 polygamists in Utah, but has
produced little in hard evidence or any significant prosecution (except for
Jeffs & Hildale Police). He admits his investigations have failed to
prosecute the many cases with DNA samples in hand of polygamist men and the
child mothers they impregnate. Shertleff & Goddard should take careful notes
from Texas investigators using DNA. It's shameful that the State Attorney
Generals of Utah, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado to excuse all for a lack of agency
money and continue toward tolerance of these unlawful acts. Let's have no
more money excuses as Sen.Harry Reid offers you Federal assistance. For the
publics sake, please seek out the Feds money and assistance to prosecute the
horrific crimes inflicted on their il�bred children.
Logan, UT
Logan, UT
Polygamy | 3:08 p.m. May 4, 2008
People who are getting their shorts in a wad over polygamy are either extremely
sheltered or major hypocrites! How many men out there marry 3 or 4 times with
girlfriends on the side? And the number of women committing adultry in this
country is finally comparable to the men.
Where are the marriage licenses to confirm charges of polygamy or bigamy in that FLDS community? Maybe they're just fornicating like the rest of America.
Pleeeeze stop these self rightous comments. The hypocrisy makes me gag!
Where are the marriage licenses to confirm charges of polygamy or bigamy in that FLDS community? Maybe they're just fornicating like the rest of America.
Pleeeeze stop these self rightous comments. The hypocrisy makes me gag!
Robin Wildflower | 3:13 p.m. May 4, 2008
Yeah. Polygamy. Plural parenting. Shocking.
Some religions forbid divorce.
The majority of Americans "divorce" and "remarry" - having children from both - creating "four parental units".
If folks they've re-married - are themselves divorced with children - it creates a larger number of "custodial figures".
Often, folks divorce and re-marry lots - dating in between (creating babies as they go).
There's folks who have affairs while married - resulting in children from both (sometimes multiple pregnancies - at the same time). Though "legally" this isn't considered "multiple wives or husbands" - "parental rights" and "child support" awarded - prove things differ in actuality.
Fathers producing children from many different women (marrying none - so not considered polygamy) still hold their parental rights.
These folks can live "together" in the "same apartments" or "small towns" and are encouraged to.
Family Court Judges maintain multiple "parental figures" creates "more adults" present "to love and care for children" - urging "all concerned" to "work together" ("ruling against" those who don't) and stress "geographical closeness".
Same DNA "confusion", same complicated set of "siblings".
Polygamy depends on definition.
"Plural Parenting"?
Going on everywhere - with full blessings of Family Courts.
Gonna take everyone's children?
Some religions forbid divorce.
The majority of Americans "divorce" and "remarry" - having children from both - creating "four parental units".
If folks they've re-married - are themselves divorced with children - it creates a larger number of "custodial figures".
Often, folks divorce and re-marry lots - dating in between (creating babies as they go).
There's folks who have affairs while married - resulting in children from both (sometimes multiple pregnancies - at the same time). Though "legally" this isn't considered "multiple wives or husbands" - "parental rights" and "child support" awarded - prove things differ in actuality.
Fathers producing children from many different women (marrying none - so not considered polygamy) still hold their parental rights.
These folks can live "together" in the "same apartments" or "small towns" and are encouraged to.
Family Court Judges maintain multiple "parental figures" creates "more adults" present "to love and care for children" - urging "all concerned" to "work together" ("ruling against" those who don't) and stress "geographical closeness".
Same DNA "confusion", same complicated set of "siblings".
Polygamy depends on definition.
"Plural Parenting"?
Going on everywhere - with full blessings of Family Courts.
Gonna take everyone's children?
Karl J | 3:19 p.m. May 4, 2008
To Polygamy,
No matter what you say or think. At least mainstream American woman are not forced into slavery, no matter what their moral status may be. Freedom is what America is about. SLAVERY is NOT what America is about.
No matter what you say or think. At least mainstream American woman are not forced into slavery, no matter what their moral status may be. Freedom is what America is about. SLAVERY is NOT what America is about.
john b | 3:25 p.m. May 4, 2008
you people are right what he said was right but use all of what he said not just
what you think about the first thing he said was he didn't think they
should take all of them but what else could they do'
in other words they went by the law not their hearts
i would rather no mother or father ever have to lose a child but we all will at some time
DMN if you dont run this email me and tell me why please
in other words they went by the law not their hearts
i would rather no mother or father ever have to lose a child but we all will at some time
DMN if you dont run this email me and tell me why please
Sick People | 3:38 p.m. May 4, 2008
The people who have been spewing out ugly accusations and hate speech against
these people have a very serious problem of their own they need to focus on. It
is not normal to feel hate toward a group of people you don't even know and
that are far removed from your own life. Some of you need to read about
"The Salem Witch Hunt".
Morning Glory | 3:57 p.m. May 4, 2008
UGH! Let me see if I read this correctly. Polygamy is a crime in Utah and
Arizona, yes? Sex with a minor is sex abuse in Utah and Arizona? Slavery and
bondage is a crime in Utah and Arizona? Child abandonment is a crime in Utah and
Arizona? Welfare fraud is a crime in Utah and Arizona? Or what about child
labor, or refusal to educate a child. Then we have those who are elected to
enforce the law saying we just kind of turned a blind eye to all the law
breaking because we don't have the resourses to deal with it? What kind of
wacky states do you all live in? Thank God Texans have the guts to protect the
children from this cult. Sounds to me like two politicians afraid to loose a
few votes or maybe a couple of mil on the side.
James | 4:07 p.m. May 4, 2008
This is not just about illegal polygamy, it is also about a religious criminal
enterprise feeding off public taxes through US Government grants/ contracts and
public welfare assistance. I for one want the Western States - Attorney
Generals to take all actions necessary to stop this criminal enterprise of
thieves.
Logan, UT
Logan, UT
Jenny | 4:26 p.m. May 4, 2008
To Polygamist men only!
I know many, many woman and I have never known or ever heard a single woman that know ever say that she would live in a polygamist relationship. Most women turn their nose up to it and make fun of it. It's not the responsibility of any man to take the free will away from another living being and that includes woman. I don't believe God ever intended women to be miserable for all eternity AND WE WON'T BE. You sexiest polygamist men need to stop placing yourselves above God and other human beings. God has NEVER NEVER told you to make slaves of women and children. Shame on you wicked men. No woman in her "RIGHT MIND" I repeat- RIGHT MIND! would ever want of you repulsive jerks! FEWY-PEWY-YUCK!
I know many, many woman and I have never known or ever heard a single woman that know ever say that she would live in a polygamist relationship. Most women turn their nose up to it and make fun of it. It's not the responsibility of any man to take the free will away from another living being and that includes woman. I don't believe God ever intended women to be miserable for all eternity AND WE WON'T BE. You sexiest polygamist men need to stop placing yourselves above God and other human beings. God has NEVER NEVER told you to make slaves of women and children. Shame on you wicked men. No woman in her "RIGHT MIND" I repeat- RIGHT MIND! would ever want of you repulsive jerks! FEWY-PEWY-YUCK!
To Morning Glory and James | 4:27 p.m. May 4, 2008
"UGH! Let me see if I read this correctly. Polygamy is a crime in Utah and
Arizona, yes? Sex with a minor is sex abuse in Utah and Arizona? Slavery and
bondage is a crime in Utah and Arizona? Child abandonment is a crime in Utah and
Arizona? Welfare fraud is a crime in Utah and Arizona? Or what about child
labor, or refusal to educate a child."
UGH is right, of course all of these things are a crime, nobody doubting that, but you seem to forget that in America, where we believe in freedom the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the accused, not a politician who hates the accused (watch out if it's you, maybe you'll stand up for your own rights).
These men cannot prosecute because they don't have an accuser or evidence, it's ILLEGAL to prosecute without those 2 things in UT and AZ too for your info. (a prank caller is not a victim or evidence)
watch out if a politician hates you and rips into your home at gun point, maybe you'll get the beam out of your eye and defend the rights of others.
UGH is right, of course all of these things are a crime, nobody doubting that, but you seem to forget that in America, where we believe in freedom the benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the accused, not a politician who hates the accused (watch out if it's you, maybe you'll stand up for your own rights).
These men cannot prosecute because they don't have an accuser or evidence, it's ILLEGAL to prosecute without those 2 things in UT and AZ too for your info. (a prank caller is not a victim or evidence)
watch out if a politician hates you and rips into your home at gun point, maybe you'll get the beam out of your eye and defend the rights of others.
Ages | 4:52 p.m. May 4, 2008
The 60% pregnancy rate was determined by age based on looks by a non-age expert
but merely a CPS employee. These women do not wear makeup. Typical girls wear
makeup to appear older.
Karen | 5:19 p.m. May 4, 2008
Who cares if they wear makeup or not? It's a woman free agency to look her
best. Even the pioneers used certain things like berries to brighten their
cheeks, lips or whatever. It was their own choice. You can go clear back to
biblical times and the women wore makeup. So what's the deal? I think the
FLDS should be allowed to wear make up too. It's their controlling
polygamist dictators who refuse and choose for them not to wear makeup(NO
FREEDOM TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES)
My 2 teenagers wear makeup and it doesn't make them look older or like bad girls. They look good and are very happy young ladies. And they date decent boys THEIR OWN AGE.
I wear make up and I have been married to the same man for 28 years. In fact he likes it when I wear a little make up and IT'S MY OWN CHOICE.
My 2 teenagers wear makeup and it doesn't make them look older or like bad girls. They look good and are very happy young ladies. And they date decent boys THEIR OWN AGE.
I wear make up and I have been married to the same man for 28 years. In fact he likes it when I wear a little make up and IT'S MY OWN CHOICE.
Morning Glory | 5:27 p.m. May 4, 2008
I have spent the last week reading both sides of the FLDS question, from where
I stand there is MORE than enough evidence based on testimony and their own
court findings to warrent a complete undercover investigation. But you missed
it, by their own admission they do not want to investigate this. And for those
of you whining about constitutional rights, you can not break the law and hide
behind the constitution. By the way I live in Guatemala where 1% of all crime
is investigated, I thought the US was better.
Cookie's alert | 5:44 p.m. May 4, 2008
May 7 National Geographic Channel-'Strong City';
Texas, AZ., and Utah are not the only states...
Texas, AZ., and Utah are not the only states...
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Attorneys General Mark Shurtleff, of Utah, and Terry Goddard, above, of Arizona have been on hot seat.
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"...they focus on abuse, domestic violence and welfare fraud.
"I do think we've taken the right approach," Goddard said. "It's not spectacular and it's not headline grabbing..."
"One of the best things you can say about Arizona and Utah is (the FLDS) went to Texas to get away from us,"
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I fully agree with these statements. Utah has done well and is taking the angle that SHOULD be taken.