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Comments about ‘Utah, Arizona AGs feel fallout from FLDS raid’

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Published: Sunday, May 4 2008 12:30 a.m. MDT

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Agreed

"Our law wouldn't permit it. We have such a different situation from Eldorado."

"...they focus on abuse, domestic violence and welfare fraud.

"I do think we've taken the right approach," Goddard said. "It's not spectacular and it's not headline grabbing..."

"One of the best things you can say about Arizona and Utah is (the FLDS) went to Texas to get away from us,"
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I fully agree with these statements. Utah has done well and is taking the angle that SHOULD be taken.

Jeff

You're darn right they went too far! "Every" child taken from "every" mother by raiders of the state is government overreach of constitutional proportions. This should concern everyone. These peoples rights have been trampled on in a horrific manner. Now, we will no doubt hear the clamor and rage of people commenting in this very venue over the coming hours. They will of course expound on charges of "child rape," as if any decent person on the planet wouldn't categorically denounce such a heinous crime, though no evidence of any such crime has heretofore been presented in the case at hand. Where such crimes exist, they should of course be vigorously prosecuted. But the tirades of certain commentators are intended only to shock the sensitivities of people who are already abundantly aware of the same misdeeds that have been reported ad nauseam. Bottom line: There are too many people today Americans, mind you who would condone the use of government power not merely to prosecute criminals, but as a means for cultural cleansing. They would wink at the shredding of individual rights while quietly delighting in the state-run destruction of a culture they find personally offensive.

Contrarian

Last weekend DN reported that nine FLDS children had been hospitalized, and one baby had become so dehydrated that he/she was lethargic and had gone into shock. But this disturbing news disappeared from the news to be replaced by stories of old bone breaks shown on x-rays, and now an article about the Utah AG in relation to polygamy. What happened to the hospitalized children?

awesomeron

Yes the Texas AG, did put pressure on both Shurtleff and Goddard. They now are forced to do something. The amount of force that Texas used was not all that overwhelming considering WACO, and you do not know what they the FLDS have or how willing they are to die. It appears though that like most Rapist they are cowards and anyone standing up to them is to much for them to handle. They can Rape and Beat Women and Children but a small Police Force with one used War Surplus Half Track is to much of a show of Force. When Goddard was running for Gov in Arizona, I lived in Safford and I Voted about 5 min to 7PM. I wanted Goddard to know that if he lost by one Vote it was mine. Utah and Arizona have ignored this problems for decades. I really have nothing against Polygamists that other wise obey the Law and do not claim to be LDS Church Members. Plural Marriage has been around for Thousands of years. What I have an issue with is forced marriage and Sex with underage girls and beating children. We call that Rape and Child Abuse
.

RIGHT ON

Shurtleff is RIGHT ON.

Even under TEXAS LAW how can they justify going into ALL THE PRIVATE HOMES of any community and taking ALL THE CHILDREN without poof against that specific PRIVATE HOME. Maybe in North Korea but, not in the good old U. S. of A.

Paul

Return the kidnapped children to their parents. No arrests have been made, no charges have been filed, and no complaints have been levied. No proof of abuse or neglect has been found. Stop violating the civil rights of this community. The state authorities should follow the US Constitution. CPS, as an agency of the government, should be forced to operate in a way that will not circumvent nor contradict the Fourth Amendment. Federal law should trump state procedures. Also, free the adult women who are being held as wards of the state as if they were orphaned children just because some social worker subjectively decides that they look like they're under 18. Come on, Texas. This should be common sense!

JND

Hey Shurtleff! I guess that explains it. You make the call based on your gut. In Texas we go by the law.

Thomas

Leave these people alone.

Darrel

Reluctant, but makes judgments anyway.
Even though Utahans view FLDS as a minor aberration, the rest of the country see them as extremely abnormal: in every respect.

Law 101

It's the AG's job to enforce the law and prosecute lawbreakers, not fret about possible constitutional challenges.

If the anti-polygamy laws are thrown out then the legislature can craft new ones or legalize polygamy.

That will the job of the legislature, however, not Shurtleff.

Until the laws are enforced no one will know and the inevitable collateral abuse will continue.

ENFORCE THE LAW

excuses excuses excuses

>>"They have extended an olive branch to polygamous communities with one hand while clasping a pair of handcuffs in the other."

Maybe, but if so it is a rusty unused pair of handcuffs (don't make me pull out the Barney Fife analogies!)

But, whatever the AG has in his hands is not very relevant because he has had one eye closed and the other looking away.

It is a tough job bering a social worker and prosecutor; too tough, in fact.
But that shouldn't concern Shurtleff because he isn't a social worker.

Please no more excuses about resources and building bridges and trust.

(Yes, we know the list of folks who have been locked up. Congratulations. It is the thousands who haven't made the list we are thinking of, however.)

accessories before the fact

Ignoring illegal polygamy while going after the resultant abuse and fraud is a recipe for perpetual abuse and fraud.

The solution to a leaking roof isn't to buy more buckets to catch the drip.

It is cruel to the women and children who are the victims of the predictable and inevitable abuse to simply wait outside the compounds with stretchers to cart away the human wreckage.

olive branches and handcuffs

I was pleasantly surprised to hear Utah authorities ever have anything in their hands.
Anytime I have seen them they are wringing their hands about how hard their job is.

Logical thinker, duh!

Think about it. The only way you could prosecute bigamy or polygamy is if the marriage were performed by authorities and/or without the knowledge of the other wife. Without this it is no different than adultery which apparently is not against the law - try prosecuting it. Are we going to start rounding up all adulterers (might not be a bad idea). Men keep mistresses, secret from their wives. They lie and emotionally abuse their families. These people should be identified and punished.

We live in an immoral society where casual sex is accepted and even embraced, teen pregnancies are rampant across the nation and often the young girls are impregnated by a legal adult (18 or over), but how often do we prosecute? We consider that to be their freedom to choose. The polygamists are no different in that way so you can't prosecute them for breaking a law if they are consenting adults having free sex just because they have someone without authority conducting a ceremony. Who's protecting these offspring?

If they are children, there's a case but you don't round up all polygamists who had the ceremony rather than just sex and lock up the victims.

TexAnne

Interesting, there's a Polygamy Summit this week. Check this Deseret News article, put / after .com and then paste this at the end: article/1,5143,695276285,00.html

Law?

Utah doesn't enforce any law that I know of. There are still women from polygamous areas that go into the grocery stores using food stamps and WIC certificates. When my husband died, I was told that I didn't qualify for any of that, so how come the polygamous women rate? There are laws on the books banning polygamy--and even more laws against food stamp fraud. Shurtleff should take a look at what he ISN'T doing, because what he is doing isn't much.

Dave

""One of the best things you can say about Arizona and Utah is (the FLDS) went to Texas to get away from us," Goddard said.

Lovely.

Apparently Goddard and Shurtleff don't really care if child sexual abuse occurs. Just as long as it doesn't happen in their jurisdiction.

Rule of Law

Polygamy is against the law. Child rape is against the law. What part of ILLEGAL do you not understand?

transplant

"every" child from "every" Mother.... Every child was rescued from every abusive adult who are either a predator or who stood by and allowed the abuse AND as required, under Texas law, DID NOT REPORT IT TO THE AUTHORITIES. They live under Texas law while they live in Texas. They need to take some lessons from the Penn. and Ohio Amish. They live their own way and obey the laws of the state. Texas may have gone too far with the polygamy part of the law as they have allowed these relationships to exist without prosecuting the individuals. We either have to start now, my wish, or amend the law. As it stands these spiritual marriages are actual marriages under Texas common law marriage. Therefore fully prosecutable.

Bruce

"In Texas we go by the law"

In 2006 alone there were 63 reported cases of rape of children while in the state of Texas' care.
You'll pardon the rest of the nation for shuddering when "Texas" and "law" are used in the same sentence.
The polygamist lifestyle and the actions of individuals are separate issues.
Texas CPS should be shut down and the individuals that participated in this illegal raid should be held personally responsible.
Texas had better get out it's checkbook when the truth about this is brought out.

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