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Tad Walch: 9/11 theorist not curtailing his research
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Meaningless Towers Collapse | 8:51 a.m. May 5, 2008
The WTC Towers collapsed because two jumbo jets crashed into the towers, causing
severe structural damage and starting massive fires that weakened the structures
to the point of collapse.
The tower didn't have to collapse.
There was no secret conspiracy. The towers didn't have to collapse in order for Bin Laden's terrorist attack to be successful; that was just an unexpected "benefit" in Bin Laden's eyes.
The jumbo jets crashing into the WTC Towers, the Pentagon and the White House/U.S. Capitol? (Pennsylvania crash) weren't intended to destroy the buildings, but just to do significant damage to the American government and business icons.
The tower didn't have to collapse.
There was no secret conspiracy. The towers didn't have to collapse in order for Bin Laden's terrorist attack to be successful; that was just an unexpected "benefit" in Bin Laden's eyes.
The jumbo jets crashing into the WTC Towers, the Pentagon and the White House/U.S. Capitol? (Pennsylvania crash) weren't intended to destroy the buildings, but just to do significant damage to the American government and business icons.
Michael | 9:03 a.m. May 5, 2008
What a productive, positive way to spend your life. (Tongue in cheek.) Even
major leftist media sources have debunked the 9/11 conspiracy arguments when
they could have easily hopped on board. They simply realized that the logic
doesn't hold up and that rational people, left or right, would not be so
easily fooled.
Comments continue below
Dr Brian Horsfield | 9:08 a.m. May 5, 2008
Dr Jones, you are a hero for persevering to apply science to what is perhaps the
biggest crime in US history. Why has the investigation so far been so poor? Why
was anthrax only delivered to Democrats in the House and Senate? Why when the
source was found to be the same as from a US Govt lab did the FBI order that lab
to destroy all it's remaining supplies so no further comparisons would be
possible? There are way, way too many unanswered questions surrounding 9/11 and
Dr Jones' work must be applauded. How could the HQ of the largest military
in the world allow a plane to hit it after the towers in New York had been hit?
It looks like the whole charade was well planned to garner public support for
oil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
StrawDog | 9:26 a.m. May 5, 2008
The Jones �Paper�
states�
- - - -� and how could the collapses of all three WTC high-rises have been so
symmetrical and complete?� - - -
Personal incredulity is not a good argument to be making in a scientific paper.
- - - -� and how could the collapses of all three WTC high-rises have been so
symmetrical and complete?� - - -
Personal incredulity is not a good argument to be making in a scientific paper.
StrawDog | 9:35 a.m. May 5, 2008
The Jones �Paper�
states�
- - - -�NIST: �The initial jet fuel fires themselves lasted at most
a few minutes� [4]. . . . But then, given that the fires were brief and
patchy, how did both towers experience sudden-onset failure (?)� - - -
Did NIST say that the fires were of short duration? No, they merely said that the jet fuel burned off fairly quickly. The remaining office materials burned for much longer. And, please, don�t try to claim that office fires don�t burn hot. They do.
- - - -�NIST: �The initial jet fuel fires themselves lasted at most
a few minutes� [4]. . . . But then, given that the fires were brief and
patchy, how did both towers experience sudden-onset failure (?)� - - -
Did NIST say that the fires were of short duration? No, they merely said that the jet fuel burned off fairly quickly. The remaining office materials burned for much longer. And, please, don�t try to claim that office fires don�t burn hot. They do.
StrawDog | 9:46 a.m. May 5, 2008
The Jones �Paper� states�
- - - - �On the contrary, these real-life tests
indicate that the buildings should not have completely collapsed.
In addition, we have hundreds of cases of fires in tall
steel-frame buildings and complete collapse has never occurred.� - - - -
These �Real life tests� as you call them were not intended to prove that the towers should or should not have collapsed. They were intended to provide a baseline for the �as-designed� structure. The facts are that the of the as-built thickness and condition of the spray applied fire proofing, even before the airplane impact was poor and was not consistent with the thickness of the materials used in the UL fire tests. Furthermore, the fireproofing was friable and susceptible to damage from the shock of the airplane impacts.
Just curious | 9:45 a.m. May 5, 2008
I am not educated on this at all. I just want to know one thing from Dr. Jones.
Why would the government do this? What would be the objective? I just
don't see what the point would be.
I do think that it should be investigated at least because you obviously have a lot of people supporting your ideas.
I do think that it should be investigated at least because you obviously have a lot of people supporting your ideas.
Unfortunate Waste of Time | 10:05 a.m. May 5, 2008
As much as I would like to believe in the sincerity of Dr. Jones' research,
it just seems such a terrible waste of time and resources. At this point,
he's so fully invested in his theories that he's incapable of walking
away from them to devote his time and energy to something more worthwhile.
It's like people "investigating" Pearl Harbor or the death of JFK. At some point, you just have to realize that you are never going to be able to "prove" any of the conspiracy theories and it's time to move on.
Dr. Jones:
There's still time to do something more productive with your life. Don't spend the rest of your life chasing conspiracy ghosts.
It's like people "investigating" Pearl Harbor or the death of JFK. At some point, you just have to realize that you are never going to be able to "prove" any of the conspiracy theories and it's time to move on.
Dr. Jones:
There's still time to do something more productive with your life. Don't spend the rest of your life chasing conspiracy ghosts.
The South Point | 10:21 a.m. May 5, 2008
When murder has been committed, it is SOP for a homicide investigation to take
place which includes questioning of witnesses, forensic analysis, etc, etc. And
this goes on for however long it takes as there is no statute of limitations for
murder.
The government didn't do the homicide investigation that was supposed to have been done. Neither the federal government, nor the governments of the state nor the city of New York. Instead, they have all hemmed and hawed and dawdled and given endless excuses why they aren't doing what was supposed to have been done.
So it has been up to private citizens to do the homicide investigation as best they can. I have been rather amazed by the quality of work that has been done by private citizens has they don't have the deep pockets that governments do. Although, I do tend to discount goofy theories that aliens from outer space did it and the like, which, while is not completely impossible, isn't very probable.
A homicide investigation is supposed to be done as accurately as possible so the doers of the crime can be brought to justice. Why so much resistence to this?
The government didn't do the homicide investigation that was supposed to have been done. Neither the federal government, nor the governments of the state nor the city of New York. Instead, they have all hemmed and hawed and dawdled and given endless excuses why they aren't doing what was supposed to have been done.
So it has been up to private citizens to do the homicide investigation as best they can. I have been rather amazed by the quality of work that has been done by private citizens has they don't have the deep pockets that governments do. Although, I do tend to discount goofy theories that aliens from outer space did it and the like, which, while is not completely impossible, isn't very probable.
A homicide investigation is supposed to be done as accurately as possible so the doers of the crime can be brought to justice. Why so much resistence to this?
Jones Failed | 10:30 a.m. May 5, 2008
Jones failure to provide any sort of evidence to back up his ludicrous theories
is telling. It has been 7 years and he has failed utterly to prove anything
except to a small handful of believes who fancy themselves clued in beyond the
rest of us.
Paranoia does not for a good theory make, and the amount of resources, and the reasoning behind the ramblings of a failed film school student, a theologian and a failed engineer only make for good reading if you enjoy fiction.
Paranoia does not for a good theory make, and the amount of resources, and the reasoning behind the ramblings of a failed film school student, a theologian and a failed engineer only make for good reading if you enjoy fiction.
The South Point | 10:47 a.m. May 5, 2008
The question here is "Cui bono?"
Who benefits the most out of this whole wretched situation?
Answer: Israel.
While Americans do have a tendency to flap the lips a lot and don't keep secrets very well, the Israeli Mossad can keep their lips sealed very well indeed. And it is the Mossad motto to do things by deception.
At the current moment, it seems quite probable that if explosive devices were set in the buildings, more than likely the Mossad or Israeli agents were a part of this situation in one way or another.
The arabs supposedly responsible seem far too incompetent. The more I learn about them, the more I wonder how they got their shoes tied in the morning. Did they do it themselves, or did someone else have to do it for them?
I very distinctly get the feeling they were set up as patsies.
Who benefits the most out of this whole wretched situation?
Answer: Israel.
While Americans do have a tendency to flap the lips a lot and don't keep secrets very well, the Israeli Mossad can keep their lips sealed very well indeed. And it is the Mossad motto to do things by deception.
At the current moment, it seems quite probable that if explosive devices were set in the buildings, more than likely the Mossad or Israeli agents were a part of this situation in one way or another.
The arabs supposedly responsible seem far too incompetent. The more I learn about them, the more I wonder how they got their shoes tied in the morning. Did they do it themselves, or did someone else have to do it for them?
I very distinctly get the feeling they were set up as patsies.
not experts | 10:50 a.m. May 5, 2008
these scholars for truth that Jones aligned himself with are not all
"experts." One of their reports relies heavily on the
"expertise" of an air traffic controller who left the job prior to
Reagan firing most controllers in 1981. That's like asking Wilbur Wright
to examine and report on Howard Hughes latest aircraft. They draw conclusions
of conspiracy and collusion based on things like, "no government agency
could possibly be that stupid or incompetent, therefore they must be concealing
evidence...." Uhm, unfortunately, yes...they can. Having quite a bit of
experience in the aviation industry, including the equipment used in air traffic
control and aviation, I've found in commenting to some of these conspiracy
theorist groups that they are as closed to the truth as any government or media
agency. They immediately ban any dissenting opinions or persons who don't
agree with them. It's not a desire to get at the truth that drives these
people, it's the need to promote their deep seated beliefs that corruption
is inherent wherever power is consolidated. A sort of David vs Goliath type
life's philosophy. Truth has less to do with it than the desire to see a
big bad bully defeated.
Re: South Point | 10:51 a.m. May 5, 2008
Why should Federal and State governments waste billions of dollars investigating
what is already known, that the WTC towers collapsed and people died because a
bunch of terrorists hijacked and flew a couple of jumbo jets into the towers?
In a homocide investigation, the government DOES NOT investigate every conceivable outlandish conspiracy theory.
Once the government has enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a suspect is guilty of the homocide, the investigation is ended.
It's time for reasonable people to accept the obvious and more on.
In a homocide investigation, the government DOES NOT investigate every conceivable outlandish conspiracy theory.
Once the government has enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that a suspect is guilty of the homocide, the investigation is ended.
It's time for reasonable people to accept the obvious and more on.
Why the Resistence | 11:12 a.m. May 5, 2008
Why are some so worried about people investigating the WTC destruction?
Aren't there lessons to be learned?
What's so irritating about this?
Seems like some are afraid of finding out they were mistaken. Note their childish tone.
Aren't there lessons to be learned?
What's so irritating about this?
Seems like some are afraid of finding out they were mistaken. Note their childish tone.
StrawDog | 11:30 a.m. May 5, 2008
The investigation has already been done.
The truthers are like little kids. The results of the investigations didn't fit their paranoid fantasy, so they cry and whine about it.
The truthers are like little kids. The results of the investigations didn't fit their paranoid fantasy, so they cry and whine about it.
Majority Want More Investigation | 11:31 a.m. May 5, 2008
Time magazine reported in September 2006 that 36 percent of Americans believe
the government was complicit in 9/11. A Zogby poll reported that 51 percent of
Americans want Congress to investigate 9/11 further.
Cause and Effect | 11:35 a.m. May 5, 2008
To: South Point
"Who benefits the most out of this whole wretched situation?... Israel"
Classic conspiracy thinking.
Whoever benefits the most from an event, MUST be responsible for the event.
Those wiley Israelis, tricking bin Laden into launching a terrorist attack on the United States and, being even more clairvoyant, knowing exactly how the United States would respond.
Based on your cause and effect conspiracy thinking, the building industry should be investigated for causing earthquakes and hurricanes.
"Who benefits the most out of this whole wretched situation?... Israel"
Classic conspiracy thinking.
Whoever benefits the most from an event, MUST be responsible for the event.
Those wiley Israelis, tricking bin Laden into launching a terrorist attack on the United States and, being even more clairvoyant, knowing exactly how the United States would respond.
Based on your cause and effect conspiracy thinking, the building industry should be investigated for causing earthquakes and hurricanes.
Strawmwn | 11:38 a.m. May 5, 2008
Another Zogby poll indicated that 96% of Americans think truthers are gullible
morons.
Oh the Humanity | 11:45 a.m. May 5, 2008
All these posts prove are a lot of people have been hoodwinked by people like
Dr. Jones about what happened on 9/11. It would take 1000's of individuals
to cover up the kool aid drinking theory Jones is pushing.
People like Dr Brian Horsfield are clueless on military fighter engagement protocols and the day to day training of our military. Just because someone has PhD it doesn't make them an authority in areas outside their expertise...let alone their own.
People like Dr Brian Horsfield are clueless on military fighter engagement protocols and the day to day training of our military. Just because someone has PhD it doesn't make them an authority in areas outside their expertise...let alone their own.
An inside job... | 11:46 a.m. May 5, 2008
Yes, these towers brought down by the clever planning of the tooth fairy, santa
clause , and the easter bunny. Come on people - wise UP!
Sitting-Bull | 12:44 p.m. May 5, 2008
No arguments on page five of the comments, just insults, ad hominems and
outright disinfo to make it look bad what Jones and the other hundreds of
engineers and scientist do.
To the one who claims no conspiracy theory can ever be proven: The three WTC collapses had to occur within the laws of nature, and a theory thereof can be proven right or wrong. This claim itself is a ludicrous insult to thinking brains.
And to the one who told us that all was examined. The NIST did not provide an explanation of the collapse, in fact it stopped short by the starting collapse sequence and left us with the impression of "global collapse ensued." The examination was flawed, deeply flawed, there are hundreds and hundreds of flaws, errors, lies, omissions, distortions... Google NIST & Jim Hoffman.
...& Mark Gaffney. ... & Eric Douglas. Or visit the 911 Scolars for Truth and Justice or the Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth websites.
To the one who claims no conspiracy theory can ever be proven: The three WTC collapses had to occur within the laws of nature, and a theory thereof can be proven right or wrong. This claim itself is a ludicrous insult to thinking brains.
And to the one who told us that all was examined. The NIST did not provide an explanation of the collapse, in fact it stopped short by the starting collapse sequence and left us with the impression of "global collapse ensued." The examination was flawed, deeply flawed, there are hundreds and hundreds of flaws, errors, lies, omissions, distortions... Google NIST & Jim Hoffman.
...& Mark Gaffney. ... & Eric Douglas. Or visit the 911 Scolars for Truth and Justice or the Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth websites.
Why the Resistence | 1:16 p.m. May 5, 2008
StrawDog, why do you care? What are you afraid of?
Re: Sitting-Bull | 1:25 p.m. May 5, 2008
The one thing lacking in all of these conspiracy theories is common sense.
The unbelievable series of events that would have had to occur for these conspiracy theories to be valid have such an extremely low probability of success that they are laughable to anyone using any common sense.
You have a better chance of winning the inter-galactic lottery than you have of proving any of these conspiracy theories.
The unbelievable series of events that would have had to occur for these conspiracy theories to be valid have such an extremely low probability of success that they are laughable to anyone using any common sense.
You have a better chance of winning the inter-galactic lottery than you have of proving any of these conspiracy theories.
Dr. Doom | 1:34 p.m. May 5, 2008
Sitting bull.
- - - "With masked renovations, e.g. some part of false maintanance or elevator company work you got access to the inner core." - - -
You have been watching too many bad Hollywood movies.
In the real world, things don't work that way.
Pleas describe for us how this fake "maintenance" work was carried out.
- - - "With masked renovations, e.g. some part of false maintanance or elevator company work you got access to the inner core." - - -
You have been watching too many bad Hollywood movies.
In the real world, things don't work that way.
Pleas describe for us how this fake "maintenance" work was carried out.
Alan Williams | 1:51 p.m. May 5, 2008
Mr. Jones,
Did you miss my question on page 4? Would you mind answering it? You've invited discussion, please do so.
Thanks.
Did you miss my question on page 4? Would you mind answering it? You've invited discussion, please do so.
Thanks.
Re; South Park | 2:04 p.m. May 5, 2008
"I do tend to discount goofy theories that aliens from outer space did it
and the like, which, while is not completely impossible, isn't very
probable."
Tend to rule them out, but don't entirely dismiss them?
You've obviously been reading WAY too many sci-fi books.
But, you're in luck. Dr. Jones book, "Conspiracy of the Two Towers," should be in book stores soon.
Tend to rule them out, but don't entirely dismiss them?
You've obviously been reading WAY too many sci-fi books.
But, you're in luck. Dr. Jones book, "Conspiracy of the Two Towers," should be in book stores soon.
Strawdog | 2:11 p.m. May 5, 2008
Alan, the reason Steve Jones leaves it out is that the fact that the exterior
portions of the building fell outward and were in fact in free fall collapses
the "near free fall" argument.
He can not deal with the fact that portions of the cores of both towers stood after the exterior pannels fell.
He can not deal with the fact that portions of the cores of both towers stood after the exterior pannels fell.
Sitting-Bull | 2:20 p.m. May 5, 2008
Re: Common Sense. Read the History Commons aka Complete 911 Timeline and
you'll get a taste of how this series of unbelieveable events did look like
in the real world.
StrawDog | 2:28 p.m. May 5, 2008
Sitting bull, please elaborate here in this forum how YOU think this "false
Maintenance" was carried out.
Flat Earth Society | 2:47 p.m. May 5, 2008
The Flat Earth Society people and the 911 Conspiracy people really should join
forces. They have so much in common: fake moon landings, fake terrorist attacks.
They could concoct all kinds of fanciful theories such as the Global Warming
conspiracy.
Truthers? | 2:58 p.m. May 5, 2008
Truthers is an interesting title for a group to assume, when it really refers to
those who reject the most obvious and logical conclusion to try to gather
evidence for a pre-determined, highly unlikely conclusion. It seems like there
is a fatal flaw in the logic involved.
I recall being in one of Dr. Jones' lectures. He was a good teacher. Too bad he gave it up.
I recall being in one of Dr. Jones' lectures. He was a good teacher. Too bad he gave it up.
Mahershalalhashbaz | 3:30 p.m. May 5, 2008
I've heard of killing 2 birds with 1 stone, but pulverizing 3 GIGANTIC
steel buildings with 2 birds? Impossible! You people who don't believe
this was a conspiracy/demolition are the ones who need to be placed in a loony
bin.
Dr. Doom | 3:37 p.m. May 5, 2008
WTV was struck by and severly damaged by debris from the collapse of WTC 1.
The water pressure was shot and the power was off. The fires burned un-fought for 7 hours.
The building's fireproofing was only rated for 4 hours.
The water pressure was shot and the power was off. The fires burned un-fought for 7 hours.
The building's fireproofing was only rated for 4 hours.
Reaper | 3:45 p.m. May 5, 2008
It's time to wake up america! When you look into what the truth movement
has.. Then you have the right to an opinion.
Until then go educate yourself!
Until then go educate yourself!
Strawdog | 3:57 p.m. May 5, 2008
Truthers have nothing but tired old fantasies.
Go educate yourself right back at you.
Go educate yourself right back at you.
Re: Mahershalalhashbaz | 3:59 p.m. May 5, 2008
Give me proof that it was really a conspiracy/demolition.
But, I expect more than some weak theory based on chemical residue.
I expect names and confessions from the actual people involved in planning and carrying out the demolition. I expect scientific models to show how the charges were placed so that the buildings collapsed as they did. I expect details of how explosives of such a massive scale could have been placed in the buildings without anyone who wasn't in on the plan ever noticing. I expect details of how the explosions were so carefully controlled after the massive damage caused by the jumbo jets. I expect a believable sequence of events that shows how ALL of the players involved were recruited. I expect to know the ultimate secret of how the ring leaders were able to get so many people to agree on such a horrendous plan and then were able to keep everyone from saying a word 6 years afterward.
In other words, I expect proof of something that is impossible to prove. Until then, to everyone with common sense, the 911 Conspiracy Theory will remain nothing more than a conspiracy theorist's sci-fi fantasy.
But, I expect more than some weak theory based on chemical residue.
I expect names and confessions from the actual people involved in planning and carrying out the demolition. I expect scientific models to show how the charges were placed so that the buildings collapsed as they did. I expect details of how explosives of such a massive scale could have been placed in the buildings without anyone who wasn't in on the plan ever noticing. I expect details of how the explosions were so carefully controlled after the massive damage caused by the jumbo jets. I expect a believable sequence of events that shows how ALL of the players involved were recruited. I expect to know the ultimate secret of how the ring leaders were able to get so many people to agree on such a horrendous plan and then were able to keep everyone from saying a word 6 years afterward.
In other words, I expect proof of something that is impossible to prove. Until then, to everyone with common sense, the 911 Conspiracy Theory will remain nothing more than a conspiracy theorist's sci-fi fantasy.
notasleep | 4:22 p.m. May 5, 2008
Here is the psychology I am familiar with:
People keep their mouths shut over big things and open their mouths over small things
That is why the US army had to parade thousands of German citizens who lived only a short distance from the holocaust atrocities through the concentration camps to show them what they were allowing by their silence.
People keep their mouths shut over big things and open their mouths over small things
That is why the US army had to parade thousands of German citizens who lived only a short distance from the holocaust atrocities through the concentration camps to show them what they were allowing by their silence.
Attack Dogs | 4:31 p.m. May 5, 2008
What do you care if Dr. Jones or anyone else wants to research this? Let the
scientific method separate fact from fiction. If he can publish in more
mainstream journals, good for him. Either way, it's good for all of us to
encourage anyone to ask questions.
There's nothing to be afraid of, so please calm down and stop acting like attack dogs for a mob boss. If you don't, we can all figure that that's what you are.
There's nothing to be afraid of, so please calm down and stop acting like attack dogs for a mob boss. If you don't, we can all figure that that's what you are.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 4:32 p.m. May 5, 2008
Remember, the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals,
communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
That's why Republican's as well as "normal people" call upon
other responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote
those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental
unit of society.
No to Tyranny | 4:59 p.m. May 5, 2008
Anyone who can watch both of the twin towers get blown into dust, pulverized and
disintegrate ON THE WAY DOWN and think this is what happens under natural
collapse conditions... needs their head examined!!! How do you explain the
molten metal that firefighers reported was 'flowing' weeks after 9/11,
which was constantly being flooded with water? 37 WTC workers reported
explosions going off in the basements of both towers BEFORE the planes even
struck. Ever hear of William Rodriguez? Google him and read what he said went
on in the basement. Why was all of the debris hauled out and shipped to China
before a criminal investigation could be conducted? That's a crime in and
of itself. The Towers had become financial albatross's as tenancy was
dwindling and they were not designed to accommodate today's technology.
Likewise, they changed ownership 3 months before 9/11 as the Port Authority gave
the lease to Larry Silverstein and the company in charge of security for the
towers was Securacom, who just so happened to be owned and operated by George
Bush's younger brother Marvin (who also oversaw security at 3 of the 4
airports involved in 9/11). WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
No to Tyranny | 5:16 p.m. May 5, 2008
Furthermore, the city of NY passed new building laws and codes, one of which
required the asbestos removal from the Towers, which was going to cost more than
the buildings were worth. Tax revenues from lower Manhattan were also dwindling
because the city was losing economic activity due to the Towers. When you throw
in PNAC to the equation, not to mention the means and motive that the United
States Military-Industrial Complex had to demolish the Towers, it's easy to
see what happened and why. On 9/11, my first thought was that bin Laden was the
culprit because the government and our media had successfully portrayed him in
years' past as our gravest threat (I'm still kicking myself for
falling for this deceit). he has been the perfect boogey-man for our
government. I don't believe our government as a whole carried it out, but
it was most certainly allowed to happen because the evidence is overwhelming for
complicity and it appears the Military-Industrial Complex played a giant role
because the amount of power used to fell the structures is still a mystery to
conventional demolition companies. WTC 7 is also a HUGE smoking gun!!!
Washington is corrupt to the core!
Logician | 5:41 p.m. May 5, 2008
"Dr, Scientist", 5-5-80,
How do you explain the presence of people, standing and waving in the wall gaps where the planes entered. How did they survive? How did they walk to the outside walls? Obviously human beings survived those fires, but the steel structure and concrete floors failed?
How do you explain the presence of people, standing and waving in the wall gaps where the planes entered. How did they survive? How did they walk to the outside walls? Obviously human beings survived those fires, but the steel structure and concrete floors failed?
John | 5:56 p.m. May 5, 2008
The people who persist in demanding proof that thousands of silent individuals
within our government agencies were involved in the 9/11 attacks are wasting
their breath. Dr. Jones is clearly not concerned with researching that matter.
So stop bringing it up! Dr. Jones is interested in the scientific approach to
explaining the collapses of all three WTC towers. NIST and FEMA tried the
scientific approach and their explanations turned out to have no basis in fact.
They failed. Unless they have one amazing report on WTC7 coming out soon (I
doubt it), then how else are we going to know why those towers came down? You
know, some of us actually care about finding out why 3,000 people died on 9/11
considering the available evidence suggests that they should not have. Is it so
wrong to test a hypothesis that may provide us with new, valuable information?
Whether it is correct or not. All this resistance to scientific research makes
me feel like we're entering a new dark age. I'm LDS so I'm not
really surprised to hear all this from a SLC crowd. But c'mon people, join
the 21st century. There's a lot to learn.
Tony Szamboti | 5:58 p.m. May 5, 2008
Dr. Doom wrote:
"18 perimeter columns held up the entire gravity load? What cereal box did you read that from?"
It certainly wasn't a cereal box I got it from, but maybe you should try reading something before you respond.
If you had read and understood what I said in those posts you would know that the information was there to determine that 18 perimeter columns on each corner, 72 total, could support the entire gravity load above them. The perimeter columns were 65,000 psi steel at the impact sites. The 12 floors above the 98th floor collapse initiation in WTC1 weighed 69 million pounds and the cross section of each column at that level was 15.6 sq. inches. Divide 69 million by 72 and you get 958,333 pounds on each column which gives a stress of 61,432 psi. This is less than the yield stress on the column and the effective length of these columns would not allow buckling below yield. Does this help you understand?
You really shouldn't come to a battle of wits with only ad hominem.
"18 perimeter columns held up the entire gravity load? What cereal box did you read that from?"
It certainly wasn't a cereal box I got it from, but maybe you should try reading something before you respond.
If you had read and understood what I said in those posts you would know that the information was there to determine that 18 perimeter columns on each corner, 72 total, could support the entire gravity load above them. The perimeter columns were 65,000 psi steel at the impact sites. The 12 floors above the 98th floor collapse initiation in WTC1 weighed 69 million pounds and the cross section of each column at that level was 15.6 sq. inches. Divide 69 million by 72 and you get 958,333 pounds on each column which gives a stress of 61,432 psi. This is less than the yield stress on the column and the effective length of these columns would not allow buckling below yield. Does this help you understand?
You really shouldn't come to a battle of wits with only ad hominem.
Re: Re: Mahershalalhashbaz | 6:05 p.m. May 5, 2008
It isn't the job of the 9/11 truth community to extract confessions from
the compartmentalized US intelligence agencies that carried out the attacks. All
we need to do is prove that the official conspiracy theory is bunk and that
explosives were used to bring down the WTC, not puny kerosene fires. Jones
proves that thermite cutter charges were used. There is abundant video and
photographic evidence of explosives. Just Google 9/11 Finnish military expert
and look at the pictures. Debris is ejected upward and outward over 60 meters
from the WTC. How would a gravitational collapse generate enough energy to eject
material UPWARD? Look at the satellite images taken on 9/16/01. Google World
Trade Center USGS Thermal. Kerosene could not cause this - only very powerful
explosives. In fact the fire department didn't announce until 12/19/01 that
all of the fires were put out. Again this impossible for a puny kerosene based
office fire. Once you rule out the impossible then you have to conclude that
criminal elements of the US government carried out the attacks. The FBI's
website doesn't even mention that OBL had anything to do with 9/11 because
there is no evidence linking him to 9/11.
Logician | 6:29 p.m. May 5, 2008
"Dr Doom", 5-5-80,
Underground coal fires keep on burning, simply because coal is an excellent fuel. Ask at any power station. What, do you suggest, was burning beneath those piles of rubble for 17 weeks? Pulverized concrete and steel beams do not burn. Jet fuel is simply kerosene and was long gone before the collapses. However, Thermite continues to burn until fully consumed. Water cannot smother a thermite fire, because it derives its oxygen from its iron oxide component. QED.
Underground coal fires keep on burning, simply because coal is an excellent fuel. Ask at any power station. What, do you suggest, was burning beneath those piles of rubble for 17 weeks? Pulverized concrete and steel beams do not burn. Jet fuel is simply kerosene and was long gone before the collapses. However, Thermite continues to burn until fully consumed. Water cannot smother a thermite fire, because it derives its oxygen from its iron oxide component. QED.
Logician | 7:45 p.m. May 5, 2008
Apart from VP Cheney's activities down in the White House Bunker on that
evil morning, there is the highly pre-publicized activity of Bush, sitting in a
Florida school room, already knowing about the first plane hit, then being told
by his aide that a second plane had hit WTC. The aide withdrew immediately
without the hint of waiting for a reply. Bush sat motionless, for another 20
minutes. His minders remained in another room, obviously not at all concerned
for his safety. Simply because they all knew the plan, which did NOT include a
plane crashing into that school.
Then there were the 5 Israeli spies who knew exactly when to set up their furniture van in a park with an excellent view of the towers, standing on the van roof with camera on tripod right on time for the expected firey events. They were apprehended and questioned for several weeks then released to return to Israel. All information gained gained from them is classified, never to be revealed.
Then there were the 5 Israeli spies who knew exactly when to set up their furniture van in a park with an excellent view of the towers, standing on the van roof with camera on tripod right on time for the expected firey events. They were apprehended and questioned for several weeks then released to return to Israel. All information gained gained from them is classified, never to be revealed.
Dr. Doom | 7:46 p.m. May 5, 2008
---"This is less than the yield stress on the column and the effective
length of these columns would not allow buckling below yield."- - -
So what happened to the effective length of the columns when the floors that were pinning them in place became disconected due to the impacts or began to sagg due to the fires?
What would happen to the crittical buckling load if the effective length of the column is doubled as it would have been if one floor became discnnected or began to sag?
Do you understand what an inverse square law is?
So what happened to the effective length of the columns when the floors that were pinning them in place became disconected due to the impacts or began to sagg due to the fires?
What would happen to the crittical buckling load if the effective length of the column is doubled as it would have been if one floor became discnnected or began to sag?
Do you understand what an inverse square law is?
Dr. Doom | 7:48 p.m. May 5, 2008
Logician, I suggest that you get a real job and go to work in a large office
where you can see for yourself the huge amounts of paper, and plastic present in
the files, the computers, the workstations the carpeting, the cubicles, etc.
etc. etc.
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I am a research engineer. I know of many things we cannot explain.
I saw the airplanes fly into the twin towers and I am supposed to believe that something else caused them to fall?
Reminds me of a line from a movie:
Who ya going to believe, me or your own eyes?