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Shurtleff eager to educate Reid on polygamy battle

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Polygamy | 10:01 a.m. April 30, 2008
I hate to break this to all of you, but the FLDS are not practicing polygamy. Yes, there are many "spiritual wives" but they are not legally bound so not legally married. They are guilty of adultery, but then how many commit adultery or serial monogamy going from marriage to marriage?
lost in DC | 10:07 a.m. April 30, 2008
If the not the Feds, then who? says harry. could he be talking about controlling illegal immigration? Of course not! He's a democrat hack. The more illegals, the greater chance of him staying in power.
400ex | 10:09 a.m. April 30, 2008
Help me understand. Poligamy is illegal in the USA just like drug dealing. So why don't we just go arrest any poligamist breaking the law? Guns don't stop us from other criminals. We don't wait for a customer to complain before we arrest a drug dealer. If the law was passed and has been found constitutional, as it has, why do we not enforce it except in chosen times? This makes it look like we're picking on someone, when really they are a criminal. I just don't get it.
Comments continue below
anonymous | 10:16 a.m. April 30, 2008
"Polygamy" is right, they are "Spiritual wives", which doesn't make them "Legal Wives" or "Multiple Wives" in all technicality, and they are practicing "Adultery" with the OK of the wife. They are also practicing "Statutory Rape" as well! The Statutory Rape MUST STOP! As far as the Adultery that all depends on the State laws I presume. I am afraid Harry Reid is a dork, and likes to shoot his mouth off. If each state took care of their own problems, we wouldn't have such a problem with it now would we? Also the FLDS have these Ranches or "Compounds" to be alone and live the law of consecration, which is something I am afraid they probably do much better than us if we were asked to live that law today? Maybe those who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones? Discuss child abuses, and Statutory Rape, and "Laws Of The Land", and perhaps they will conform?
mary kecxon | 10:17 a.m. April 30, 2008
What do you expect from Harry Reid. He is wrong on every issue. It is an embarasement that he is LDS it'a hard to believe. Thanks for all the blasts he is getting. He shoul have resigned a long time ago.
No way aroung it... | 10:18 a.m. April 30, 2008
There is no way around it...Utah has not done enough. If 1/2 of the stuff in Texas is true, then we simply ignored the problem and did not try to end a massive criminal enterprise. These peopel have lived here for over a hundred years doing these despicable things and we really have done nothing that has stopped them. Texas has stopped them, dead in their tracks and we just look bad. We also don't like the "image in the mirror" because many of us are starting to find out how WE practiced polygamy. The REAL story of LDS polygamy is now coming out. Not the sunday school version. It ain't pretty for us looking at how we dropped the ball on these people's activities nor on the things we used to do. This is a time of great awakening for us. I think good will come of this. It will be painful, but we will finally acknowledge the mistakes of the past, I predict.
lingal | 10:21 a.m. April 30, 2008
I agree with "polygamy" above except to add that although they are not legally married, it is still wrong for these older men to engage in sexual activity with teenage girls. And it is wrong for the boys to be brought up to view women as a gift of property that will be bestowed upon them if they are somehow worthy.
watch out | 10:22 a.m. April 30, 2008
the FLDS may be praying against him causing him to say stupid things ...like how come Utah has been doing so much to stamp out a felonous act since 1890!
Re: Polygamy | 10:25 a.m. April 30, 2008
Yeah? And how many who commit adultery are child molesters? None that I know of. There is a difference. Spiritual wives and using God for your own filthy self gratifying purposes is quite offensive and wrong. And I'm certain God is offended as well.

I sure pray with all my heart that Harry Reid goes after you characters.
Hello... | 10:35 a.m. April 30, 2008
The FLDS is still in Utah and Arizona...

You haven't done enough.
So True | 10:36 a.m. April 30, 2008
For years Arizona and Utah turned their backs to the abuses for political reasons. For example the authorities pulled out all stops looking for Elizabeth Smart who was kidnapped by radical polygamist. But authorities turned their back on Ruby Jessop, abused and kidnapped by FLDS members when she tried to escape.

This constitutional right to Freedom of Religion espoused for years by FLDS is wearing thin.
whose reality? | 10:42 a.m. April 30, 2008
which theory will he support. The one that says institutionalized children from their home is most damaging to children or the the one that say Kinship is the protectors of thier children. Both quotes from this agency. It might be interesting how he considers his religion and the state of Utsana fit in the money market of the Federal Government and the state's illogical support.
New York | 10:51 a.m. April 30, 2008
We have now seen and heard of the abuses associated with polygamy and consequently most of the country believes polygamy is a scourge. Unlike the practices of other religious groups such as the Amish and Mennonites or even a homosexual alternative lifestyle, the world has now seen that polygamy is not a victimless crime. The polygamists have very little national public support, and considering Utah�s history I guess it is not surprising that many Utahns are sympathetic as the State refuses to prosecute the crimes. But it is far too easy for these abusive cults to pull up stakes and move to another jurisdiction to continue manipulating the young and weak and violating laws in the name of religion. Reid�s call for a federal investigation and assistance in combating the problem is precisely what is needed.
Jim Fletcher | 10:58 a.m. April 30, 2008
Once again Senator Reid gives a black eye to the rest of actives Mormons because of his Liberal politics and comments that he should know better than to make.I completely agree with Sheriff Shrtleff.
wHERE'S | 11:04 a.m. April 30, 2008
WARREN jEFFS...THAT'S ALL FOLKS!!
Constitutional? | 11:04 a.m. April 30, 2008
Where in the US Constitution does the federal government get to intervene in a state issue? Oh, yeah, that's right, the Constitution doesn't matter any more unless it is an accepted perversion like sodomy. Then the perversion is OK. Thank you US Supreme Court. And, by the way Mr. Reid, I'd prefer you pay for abortions, another constitutional "right", out of your own pocket rather than taxing me for this awful crime.
wrz | 11:09 a.m. April 30, 2008
>>I remember alot of criticism of Texas for going in heavily armed. That maybe what prevented alot of bloodshed. It is much better to go prepared and not need it.<<

The question alotta folks have about this is, "what makes the LFDS so special that Texas had to strong-arm into their homes?" The streets of most Texas cities (and schools) are full of teens having sex and getting pregnant.

Answer: It's about religion. Texas is Baptist and they don't cotton to competition.
transplant | 11:12 a.m. April 30, 2008
"In Texas, common-law marriage can be established by showing that the parties (1) agreed to be married; (2) cohabitated in Texas as husband and wife; and (3) represented to others that they were married" >>>>>>so plural, multi or spiritual they are declaring themselves to be polygamists under the law of Texas. So can and should be prosecuted on each count of the law. A minor cannot enter into such a contract. All the rapes must be prosecuted. When all the adults are charged,tried, sentenced and serve their time they will be educated about the laws of this land.
Utah Valley Resident | 11:18 a.m. April 30, 2008
What is this verbal abuse of Utah Attorney General Shurtleff? The legal system is complicated, which makes it difficult to eradicate convoluted, and bizzare counterculture groups/behavior. There are many sects/groups around the country who have set up ranches/towns, etc. to foster their particular ideas. This country was set up by our founders for law abiding citizens. What we have around the country are people who are cohabitating, and living outside of the U.S. and local laws. There are sodomites (called gays), and all manner of ites polluting society. We have evil people subverting and breaking constituted laws. For someone like Harry Reid to pontificate about Utah and other states is just selfserving and a basic crock. Senator Reid is a laughing stock of a senator, who along with the House of Representatives Speaker, Nancy Pelosi have done little to move this country forward. All the two of them do is take potshots at good people, beginning with President Bush. They have set themselves up as sumo critics, and all they want to do is increase regulation and taxes on the American people. I thought polygamy was federally illegal. What have they done about eradicating it? Buzz off Reid.

Go Shurtleff!!!
G | 11:36 a.m. April 30, 2008
"The FLDS is still in Utah and Arizona...

You haven't done enough."

So what are they supposed to do? Ban the entire religion? What about the First Amendment?
Turning tide. | 12:02 p.m. April 30, 2008
FLDS today LDS tomorrow, America is on the road to a saner society.
re:wrz 11:09 | 12:18 p.m. April 30, 2008
Yes I am sure there is alot of sex going on by underage boys and girls in Texas. And everytime they find a perverted Old Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Methodist, Scientoligist or Space Alien molesting children they drag him out a deal with him too. This was an organized assault on underage girls, and yes boys too, by a group of OLD PERVERTS. It has nothing to do with religion. How come there are some on here that can not understand that. Denial I guess!
To G | 12:19 p.m. April 30, 2008
I'll tell you what they're supposed to do: stop old men from "spiritually marrying" underage girls. It's called statutory rape. Try them and if convicted toss them in the pokey, that's what they're supposed to do. Voila. Done. Religion has zip to do with it. A crime's a crime. But Shurtleff does zip ABOUT it. Reid is so right about this.
homey don't play that! | 12:45 p.m. April 30, 2008
polygamy is banned....outlawed..get over it and quit drooling...gone...gone...if your so law abiding then how come broken bones and 31 underage girls don't ring some sense into your head..it is not religion when it does that. And where are the minority members? AS they wouldn't buy into this rubbish for sure for sure!
wrz | 12:53 p.m. April 30, 2008
"I'll tell you what they're supposed to do: stop old men from "spiritually marrying" underage girls. It's called statutory rape."

What would you have called it 2 1/2 years ago when the Texas law allowed 14 year old girls to marry? Even older men?

It looks like Texas has enacted laws expressly "prohibiting the free exercise of religion in direct violation of Article I of the Bill of Rights.
Washington State LDS | 1:13 p.m. April 30, 2008
Brainwrap, You have a good point. When the police kick down the doors of every couple that are "living together" or are having an extra-marital affair (unlawful cohabitation)and takes their children based on a fraudulent phone call we will be able to stomp out all immorality. Their children might be at risk (and often are) from the boy-friend (Physical and sexual abuse). I agree that minors forced into marriage is wrong. What about all of the pregnant teenagers in your neighborhood. You had better start arresting someone. Someone has illegaly cohabitated. The constitution is supposed to protect us from laws focused on a specific group or Criminalizing something that was done prior to the law being written ( No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.Section 9 - Limits on Congress). These people believe it is their religious right to practice polygamy. Polygamy was made illegal to attack the Mormons. No-one arrested the Trappers with more than one native american wife.

Don't pick and choose what you decide is immoral. If it is -it is,

The states should make it clear to the polygamists what they will not allow, not wait and then arrest.
re:wrz | 1:18 p.m. April 30, 2008
Key word "MARRY"!! This involved one male and one female APPEARING at the courthouse with the Parents, of the underage party, which was 14 and now it is 16, to give consent. They had to bring proof of age for the underage person. That IS ONE MALE AND ONE FEMALE and that is the limit. If any of these pervs would have shown up at the courthouse with a 16 year old girl and her parents with proof of her age they would have been given a marriage license to marry her as long as they weren't already married to someone else. Very easy to understand. They do this for Baptist, Church of Chirst, Catholics, Methodist, Scientoligists and Maybe even Space Aliens. See it has NOTHING to do with RELIGION.
To:wrz | 1:27 p.m. April 30, 2008
You said Article 1 of the Bill of Rights and I think you are referring to the First Amendment.
To: Wash LDS | 1:45 p.m. April 30, 2008
The States Have Made it Clear to the Polygamists what they will not allow. IT IS CALLED LAWS and they have VIOLATED many of Texas' Laws and that is what they will be charged with when the investigation is complete. i.e. Bigamy-ILLEGAL, Statutory Rape-ILLEGAL, And I am sure there will be more laws that have been broken. It is not about "Morality" it is about "LEGALITY" . Go back and read re:wrz at 12:18
G | 1:52 p.m. April 30, 2008
"Religion has zip to do with it. A crime's a crime. But Shurtleff does zip ABOUT it. Reid is so right about this."

I agree, throw them in jail--and leave the rest of the church alone. If religion really is irrelevant, everybody should be fine with returning the kids once the prosecution is done.

But if you really want to prove this is only about enforcing the law, Texas CPS needs to start raiding abortion clinics, where you will find any number of pregnant teenagers, 2/3s of which, according to studies, will be in their situation because of adult men.

But Reid is not only indifferent to this situation, Reid's party has spent years trying to push through legislation to make those underage abortions completely anonymous. They probably have good intentions with these laws, but the fact is that they are letting hundreds of thousands of instances of abuse get through unpunished--far more than what could possibly have been going on at the "ranch". And it will continue unchecked because of the double standards we have in America today.
californian | 1:54 p.m. April 30, 2008
A few notes:
Harry Reid can not be educated...that door closed years ago.
Shurtleff is wrong to suggest that Utah has done all it could...not close to the truth and never has been.
Texas screwed this thing up royally and now it may never get adequately dealt with.
Most of this would never even have happened if it was not an election y
To: wrz | 2:06 p.m. April 30, 2008
You assert that religion motivates Texas to stamp out FLDS polygamy.
If so, could we please bottle up whatever the Baptist are drinking and give it to Shurtleff and the rest of Utah civil authorities?
californian | 4:18 p.m. April 30, 2008
sorry...I lost my power in mid sentence... this is all election year politics. Harry Reid can not be trusted nor can he be reasoned with. This is grandstanding on exactly the same scale as we saw from the "The Hammer" when he was in charge of things. At some point, the American people are going to have to step up and stop sending these same people to Washington...Democrats, Republicans, Independents, it really doesn't matter. Look at their records and see where their beliefs lie when there is not money for their district or friendly lobbyists involved.
wrz | 4:57 p.m. April 30, 2008
>>You said Article 1 of the Bill of Rights and I think you are referring to the First Amendment.<<

One and the same.

"In the United States, the Bill of Rights is the name by which the first ten amendments to the United States Constitution are known."
wrz | 5:06 p.m. April 30, 2008
>>You assert that religion motivates Texas to stamp out FLDS polygamy. >If so, could we please bottle up whatever the Baptist are drinking and give it to Shurtleff and the rest of Utah civil authorities?<<

I don't think shurtleff drinks.
lane | 8:06 p.m. April 30, 2008
I guarantee you, if I dumped my underage son somewhere, that very day the police and who knows who would be at my door. I'd be arrested for child endangerment, neglect, etc. Why have these people gotten away with it for years? Hide behind "religious freedom" all you want--decent people see through your lies and deflections.
zoar | 8:13 p.m. April 30, 2008
No way around it,

I have done a lot of research on pre-manifesto polygamy and it was a lot different then what you see going on today. Men could not marry other wives without their consent and the women were free to leave anytime they wanted. There were no lost boys, in fact Brigham Young instructed the leaders to encourage their young men to marry. Of course marrying 14 and 15 year old girls did not have the stigma then as it does today because frontier America was doing the same thing. As a matter of counsel though, Young told the men to leave the children alone.


After the manifesto when the LDS Church banned the practice, some men without any authority, took it upon themselves to continue it. Now you see the result of their uninspired decisions. They have turned polygamy into something repulsive which in earlier times was not so. This is what happens when self-appointed prophets fall under the influence of evil. If Brigham Young were here today and saw this polygamy he would weep
Larry | 10:27 p.m. April 30, 2008
Senator Reid is correct on this one. This may be the first time Senator Reid got something correct. He also needs to worry about other states Nevada included
John Lambert | 10:39 p.m. April 30, 2008
I have been doing a study on polygamy in the US. There are lots of Chrsitian Polygamists, who stop at nothing to try to distance themselves from Mormons. There is an organization advocating for such in Maine, and there is a community of such in Virginia where they practice teenage marriages.
There is also strong evidence that many West African, primarily Muslim, men in New York City marry women in their teens and bring them to New York City.
New York has done less than nothing about this situation. Why does Reid not attack New York's total and complete inaction on this issue?
to wrz at 5:06 pm | 6:31 a.m. May 1, 2008
Article 1 is in the Constitution. The Bill of Rights are the First Ten Amendments to the Articles of the Constitution. Article 1 did not Mention Freedom of Religion that led to the First Amendment:

AMENDMENT I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

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