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Shurtleff eager to educate Reid on polygamy battle
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rkbl | 12:51 a.m. April 30, 2008
I hope Shurtleff isn't expecting us to forget how many years we could not
get any investigations in to the FLDS communities of Hilldale and Colorado City.
It was discovered that they were diverting State school funds to FLDS coffers
and Shurtleff wouldn't look at it. Next came the complaints that men and
boys were being removed from their homes by the police, at the direction of FLDS
leaders. It wasn't until Arizona began to investigate the misuse of school
funds and property seizures that Utah authorities did anything at all. They had
girls escaping and telling of the forced marriages and didn't go after the
FLDS at all. They went after the Kingston's and then David Leavitt went
after Green and Shurtleff didn't do anything at all with the FLDS, until
the Bank of Ephraim failure.
Doug | 1:07 a.m. April 30, 2008
Harry Reid actually said something I agree with? Definitely a first. Normally
he's far too liberal to even bother listening to, but I've got to hand
it to him. He's right-on with this issue. Bravo! Utah especially
hasn't done enough to rid the state of this disgusting practice.
Anonymous | 1:20 a.m. April 30, 2008
*** "They wouldn't be in Texas if we didn't kick them out of
Utah," Shurtleff said. ***
Only some of them are in Texas. The bulk of them remain in Utah & Arizona.
Shurtleff did nothing but take a few baby steps. He was willing to take on a few minor cases here and there, but he was unwilling to go after the big issue, which would've meant taking every kid in town into custody.
Being unable to tackle the big criminal issues facing the state - polygamous communes where young girls are made property to old men; the hundred thousand or so illegal immigrants in our state. On those issues he's done nothing. He wants to be governor, so that's gotta be embarrassing. He's gotta be re-elected attorney general first. I hope that doesn't happen.
Only some of them are in Texas. The bulk of them remain in Utah & Arizona.
Shurtleff did nothing but take a few baby steps. He was willing to take on a few minor cases here and there, but he was unwilling to go after the big issue, which would've meant taking every kid in town into custody.
Being unable to tackle the big criminal issues facing the state - polygamous communes where young girls are made property to old men; the hundred thousand or so illegal immigrants in our state. On those issues he's done nothing. He wants to be governor, so that's gotta be embarrassing. He's gotta be re-elected attorney general first. I hope that doesn't happen.
Comments continue below
KLD | 2:32 a.m. April 30, 2008
Reid agrees with the way they've separated the children from their mothers?
It's a pretty appalling abuse of human and constitutional rights. Even
the ACLU has been concerned. Once again, a politician who abandons their
supposed values when it seems politically advantageous. Regardless of whether
Utah has been aggressive enough about polygamy, I'm amazed that more of our
political leaders have not focused on this travesty.
RMW | 3:05 a.m. April 30, 2008
Enter comment
SHURTLEFF has done very little in fighting against polygamy except in high profile case which is only for notoriety. His excuse is that we do not have enough funding. One does not know exactly what the excuse that was given by his predecessors. Yet we still have those practicing polygamy in the Salt Lake Area. The Pope when he visited the US for the first time made several apologies for the Catholic Church�s hierocracies for their atrocities against young boys, should we not also have a similar apology for the young girls who have been forced into an early marriage to older men and in some cases incest? Also for the lost boys who are kicked out of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Even though they do not belong to the parent church this practice needs to be put to rest as their religion is the same only a different one at the helm. It is the image that causes so much hatred against all Mormons at home and abroad.
SHURTLEFF has done very little in fighting against polygamy except in high profile case which is only for notoriety. His excuse is that we do not have enough funding. One does not know exactly what the excuse that was given by his predecessors. Yet we still have those practicing polygamy in the Salt Lake Area. The Pope when he visited the US for the first time made several apologies for the Catholic Church�s hierocracies for their atrocities against young boys, should we not also have a similar apology for the young girls who have been forced into an early marriage to older men and in some cases incest? Also for the lost boys who are kicked out of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Even though they do not belong to the parent church this practice needs to be put to rest as their religion is the same only a different one at the helm. It is the image that causes so much hatred against all Mormons at home and abroad.
Utah's fight against polygamy | 4:05 a.m. April 30, 2008
America's best kept secret.
Educate us all, Mr A.G.
Educate us all, Mr A.G.
angry | 4:07 a.m. April 30, 2008
We'll have to get back to you on this, Senator; we're too busy earning
the trust of polygamist groups.
apples and peanuts | 4:09 a.m. April 30, 2008
It says a lot about Shurtleff that even Reid seems reasonable by comparison.
perhaps the AG could direct. . . | 4:11 a.m. April 30, 2008
... his ANGER toward the criminal polygamists for a change?
AWOL | 4:12 a.m. April 30, 2008
Shurtleff's pride is hurt. Watch out. People do foolish things when they
are angry.
awesomeron | 4:17 a.m. April 30, 2008
A blind eye and a turned back. Weather you are for it against it or netural. The
Practice of Pural Marriage is against the Law. Add to it these other abuses of
Women and you have a mess. You want to leave well enough alone and I don't
support that but understand the point of view. However when it comes and sits on
your face like it did in Texas you have to do somthing about it, and they had
the Spine to do it.
alma jeppson | 4:42 a.m. April 30, 2008
shurtleff is a good man. i agree with everything the des news agrees with. we
must reelect mcbush to save this country. go jazz.
ready to pay? | 4:42 a.m. April 30, 2008
It always comes down to the pocketbook. Are Utah taxpayers ready to pay higher
taxes to fund the foster care programs necessary for these FLDS kids when
needed? Shurtleff says there's no resources to do that. The feds
aren't going to pay the bill.
Are Utah taxpayers ready to pay higher taxes to cover the costs of rounding up the illegals and shipping them home? The feds aren't going to pay. Voicing your opinions is great, but in the end, my guess is, the taxpayers aren't willing to pay the price to rid the state of the "uglies," so, we get to live with it.
Are Utah taxpayers ready to pay higher taxes to cover the costs of rounding up the illegals and shipping them home? The feds aren't going to pay. Voicing your opinions is great, but in the end, my guess is, the taxpayers aren't willing to pay the price to rid the state of the "uglies," so, we get to live with it.
russ | 5:51 a.m. April 30, 2008
Shurtleff has to act. The heat is a little too high for his liking. Reid is
bringing it. Utah and AZ need leaders. Leaders.
Let's protect the children. You know, the children.
Let's protect the children. You know, the children.
VegasBaby | 6:46 a.m. April 30, 2008
They're here in Las Vegas running a bunch of businesses. I've seen
two sister wives in my local grocery store. Their unmarried husband owns a
house nearby, according to public records and their less than thrilled
neighbors.
Bot | 6:57 a.m. April 30, 2008
I believe the diabolical outcome of Lawrence v Texas by the U.S. Supreme Court
ensures that polygamy will be found legal � so polygamy
cannot be legally outlawed. Despite the wishes of Texas Baptists, the Old and
New Testament (Mark 12: 18-27) approve of polygamy, but strongly condemn the
behavior addressed in Lawrence v Texas.
The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted against the FLDS. When the FLDS moved to Texas the legal age was 14.
The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted against the FLDS. When the FLDS moved to Texas the legal age was 14.
grc | 7:03 a.m. April 30, 2008
Harry Reid should worry about getting the mafia out of Nevada. What has has been
done in congress since he took over?
JL | 7:06 a.m. April 30, 2008
Shurtleff is just making himself sound like a buffoon. How did he kick them
out? Only a small few have gone to Texas. Come on Shurtleff, give us some
specifics about exactly what you have done to fight polygamy in Utah. Reid is
exactly right. The Utah law enforcement has been very cowardly regarding this
issue. Any claims by Shurtleff or anyone else to the contrary are nothing but
hot air.
Attorney General | 7:07 a.m. April 30, 2008
He does not know who he works for
Seems he is on his own trip
He needs to learn his job is to serve the people
Not the State
This is a problem all over Utah
Servants that do not serve us
Seems he is on his own trip
He needs to learn his job is to serve the people
Not the State
This is a problem all over Utah
Servants that do not serve us
Shurtleff speaks | 7:07 a.m. April 30, 2008
all that comes out is noise, are their polygamists among us? yes, why
aren't these people investigated? because it makes thee church look bad -
Mark, just does (prosecutes) as he is told
Witchhunt | 7:11 a.m. April 30, 2008
We cant have those bad plygs in our state now can we? Their women aren't
as pretty as Hugh Hefner's "Girls next door," and they don't
sleep around like the rest of the adulterers in this place. Guess we better get
rid of them...
jr | 7:13 a.m. April 30, 2008
the bulk of them live on taxpayers dollars and Shurtleff has allowed that too --
Harry Reid Thanks for speaking up and saying it as it is
Joe in Seoul | 7:23 a.m. April 30, 2008
Wish the Hon. Mr. Reid was as outraged with the illegal immigration and drug
enforcement issues.
As a former 21 year resident of Las Vegas, it amazes me how Harry picks his issues.
I don't condone the practice of plural marriage, but the capricious enforcement of laws and the belated and cowboy-roundup way of treating these children has my Korean friends scratching their heads.
As a former 21 year resident of Las Vegas, it amazes me how Harry picks his issues.
I don't condone the practice of plural marriage, but the capricious enforcement of laws and the belated and cowboy-roundup way of treating these children has my Korean friends scratching their heads.
Nevadan | 7:30 a.m. April 30, 2008
Don't be afraid of your past Harry Reid
Dave | 7:33 a.m. April 30, 2008
Ried has managed to turn the Poligamy issue into partisan politics, that should
help.
Bonky | 7:37 a.m. April 30, 2008
I've received hot-tempered emails from Shurtleff when I had the audacity to
question his remarks. He's a lot more interested in justice to his
reputation than he is to enforcing actual laws that might be inconvenient.
Thotman | 7:41 a.m. April 30, 2008
It is easy to say that the states of AZ and UT should be doing more. Who owns
their trust fund? Who has prosecuted their prophet? Who took their children
nearly 50 years ago and are still asking themselves what went wrong?. Reid is
pleased with the abuses of the constitution that have gone on in Texas, well
that is typical for Reid, his whole philosophy is based on big brother running
our lives. There has been abuse, and those abusers have to be brought to
justice. The investigations need to be surgical and the practice of marrying off
women under 18 stopped, but you dont clip fingernails with a 30 lb sledge hammer
neither do snipers use a shotgun to kill the kidnapper holding a baby. Senator
Reid is so far out of touch with reality, and obviously so uninformed about the
current lawsuits being brought against such government abuse, that he is
advocating more. I am disgusted by many of the the polygamists practices, but I
am much more alarmed by the abuse of rights so visable by the state of texas and
its CPS gestopo. The press needs to compare parental rights to freedom of
speech.
Baby steps | 7:57 a.m. April 30, 2008
It ALL starts with baby steps, particularly when the environment (namely LDS
with emotional ties to polygamous ancestors) doesn't permit an actual
response without throwing a hissy fit. In other words, Utah claims to want
action against the very many crimes these people participate, but when action is
taken they cry out that criminal mothers are being separated from their babies.
You can't have it both ways especially since these women are ALWAYS
pregnant. They should be treated like any other criminal and separated from
their children based on their criminal action, but again when that happens the
LDS scream out about injustice due to religious rights violations. You cannot
have it both ways. For the record though, why do you seem to cry out about
religious rights when "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in
the Declaration of Independence is being trampled for these teenage girls along
with the grooming of very young girls and boys? Apparently many posting on
Deseret believe the only rights that should be protected are that of adults.
Shurtleff | 7:57 a.m. April 30, 2008
He better educate himself first on the state's polygamy history and who
started doing it first. And then he can educate me. Exactly what has Utah done
to enforce its polygamy laws? From my view, nothing. Therefore, Reid is right
on.
Ronnie Bray ... | 7:59 a.m. April 30, 2008
If it's not one thing, it's three others.
[Sigh!]
[Sigh!]
Teresa | 8:06 a.m. April 30, 2008
First of all, Utah and Arizonia are not the only states dealing with this issue
- there is also Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico and Texas. When it comes
to these almost cult like groups - yes I mean Cult - they use fear, violence,
threats of harm to family/relatives in order to keep the members in line - law
enforcement and attorneys need to tread a fine line or we could have another
Jones Town or Wacko on our hands. There are so many women and children involved
in these groups that the danger to them is real and immediate. Sometimes baby
steps is what is necessary until the agency's can get on a more solid
ground where the actions taken will make a difference without causing loss of
life. Grandstanding by the Senator who is mouthing off about something he is not
a part of-uninformed-will only cause worse problems and set the whole operation
backwards. He needs to butt out and leave this matter to those who really do
know what is what. He is using this issue to politically move him forward or to
keep his job. His ignorance will hurt the innocent women and children.
dingo | 8:14 a.m. April 30, 2008
once again the senior senator from nevada shows his loathing of utah. reid never
misses a chance to blast , he has a long history of it. his complete lack of
knowledge of the situation is only underscored by his total lack of compitence.
reid is a partsan hack and a political grandstander. why he would say anything
on this issue while nevada has its own problems is beyond me. note to the
senator look to your own backyard you have messed it up enough we dont need your
help in ours.
jeanne | 8:26 a.m. April 30, 2008
Like Doug, I usually find Harry Reid incredibly too liberal for my taste but on
this issue, I totally agree with him. Is he trying to get some publicity for
himself? Probably, but this will also draw attention to a problem (crime) which
has been mainly ignored in our state (along with legal immigration and the lack
of reporting & prosecuting of child abuse). Half of the young teenage girls
taken from the FLDS ranch were pregnant or had given birth at some point in
their short lives. Awake and do something Utah or forever live in shame for not
protecting the innocents!
Jim in AZ | 8:28 a.m. April 30, 2008
What amazes me about Dirty Harry is that he panders and seeks votes from the
prostitute community in Nevada. I would concentrate on my own skeletons before I
look at others harry. A state where legalized prostitution is a tax base needs
to be looked at just as badly as Polygamy.
Jack | 8:39 a.m. April 30, 2008
Shurtleff has it back to front. Shurtleff needs to BE EDUCATED BY Reid!
Shurtleff is incompetent. Period.
The Raven | 8:43 a.m. April 30, 2008
I thought Reid belonged to the party of "anything goes" when it comes
to sex. I'm surprised he's against polygamy itself. After all, not all
polygamists involve themselves in marrying underage girls. Where's
Reid's and the Democrats' usual "anything goes" attitude
when it comes to "consenting adults."
re; Ready to Play | 8:47 a.m. April 30, 2008
I want to make sure that I have this right. We will protect the Kids from abuse
if we can do it cheaply but if it costs too much we will ignore it and allow
them to be abused. I don't think so. Texas said "we will get the money
to protect the Children" Go Texas.
Kevin M. | 8:51 a.m. April 30, 2008
I hope that Shurtleff and Harry Reid will work together to stop the FLDS
Polygamist men who think it is Gods higher law to rape children, and the sooner
they move in on these cults the better. No child is safe in a polygamist cult.
Clean your NV house first... | 8:55 a.m. April 30, 2008
Harry Reid needs to look in his own backyard first, he'll find polygamists
crawling out from under rocks in Ely, Reno, and other cities in NEVADA! He might
want to ask his own state's attorney general to go after them before
accusing Utah of being 'soft' on polygamists.
bhparkman | 8:59 a.m. April 30, 2008
I originally thought that AG Shurtleff didn't do enough, or allowed crimes
to continue. But, I did my own research and decided he did all he could short of
armed conflict. AG Shurtleff did all he could to avoid bloodshed, as many of
these groups are violent and have what can only be described as
militia's.
The AG, like many of us, didn't want Utah to be a bloody battlefield. He wanted to bring the offenders to justice through jury trials, and drive out the other offenders they couldn't legally stop due to lack of evidence.
There is no reason for Sen. Reid to critize Utah and Arizona, since it was his party that supported these outlaws since Short Creek. Also, many of the FLDS's criminal activities took place in Las Vegas and other parts of Nevada. News reports for the last 15 years point ot this.
I don't care if Sen. Reid is LDS. In his Senatorial career he's acted like a tyrrant and scoundrel.
The AG, like many of us, didn't want Utah to be a bloody battlefield. He wanted to bring the offenders to justice through jury trials, and drive out the other offenders they couldn't legally stop due to lack of evidence.
There is no reason for Sen. Reid to critize Utah and Arizona, since it was his party that supported these outlaws since Short Creek. Also, many of the FLDS's criminal activities took place in Las Vegas and other parts of Nevada. News reports for the last 15 years point ot this.
I don't care if Sen. Reid is LDS. In his Senatorial career he's acted like a tyrrant and scoundrel.
Politics | 9:09 a.m. April 30, 2008
Good for Reid! Shurtleff has been squirming throughout this whole Texas event.
What a fool! If the FLDS were running from Shurtleff�s
terror, then Hilldale would be gone. I hope the Feds step in and take him to
task. Either change the law or enforce it, but don�t make
ridiculous excuses for turning a blind eye.
Bible | 9:10 a.m. April 30, 2008
Our leaders make a oath of office on a Bible. We have a constitution that
guarantees the freedom of religion. But the cultural relativism of the majority
hates polygamy which is in the Bible. Are we a hypocritical people?
wrz | 9:15 a.m. April 30, 2008
>>However when it comes and sits on your face like it did in Texas you
have to do something about it, and they had the Spine to do it.<<
Texas has a way of getting the job done. Take a look back at Waco. You're not allowed in Texas if you plan to be different.
Texas has a way of getting the job done. Take a look back at Waco. You're not allowed in Texas if you plan to be different.
TheMadNuker | 9:21 a.m. April 30, 2008
Most of you have fallen for the political strawman.
Harry Reid is simply setting everyone up for the
latest inquisition scam, and the Polygamist are it.
He wont't address $4:00 a gallon fuel costs, open
borders,prostitution in Nevada, how much does he get
on that one.He won't stop deficit spending, and the
devalued dollar. Of all the pressing issues of the
day, his focus is on a non-issue, in comparison.
People this is one of the oldest political tricks in
their book. Nero, did the same thing, blame the Christians for your own failures. This year it will
be the Polygamists turn. Harry Reid is simply deflecting from the real issues,that are truly impacting all of us today.
Harry Reid is simply setting everyone up for the
latest inquisition scam, and the Polygamist are it.
He wont't address $4:00 a gallon fuel costs, open
borders,prostitution in Nevada, how much does he get
on that one.He won't stop deficit spending, and the
devalued dollar. Of all the pressing issues of the
day, his focus is on a non-issue, in comparison.
People this is one of the oldest political tricks in
their book. Nero, did the same thing, blame the Christians for your own failures. This year it will
be the Polygamists turn. Harry Reid is simply deflecting from the real issues,that are truly impacting all of us today.
Brainwrap | 9:24 a.m. April 30, 2008
Polygamy can be eradicated in the FLDS and similar groups the same way it was
eradicated 100 years ago in the LDS church: The government locks up all those
found living in illegal cohabitation, disincorporates the church and all of its
sub-entities, and seizes all of its assets, including temples. Back then there
was the political will to do it, absent today. Had the federal government not
done the above, the LDS church would still be practicing polygamy. Those
measures will not be taken against the FLDS because of the cost to the
government of foster care for the children, welfare costs for dependents,
today�s higher standards of evidence needed to convict, and
the burden on the criminal justice and prison systems.
wrz | 9:26 a.m. April 30, 2008
Huh? Harry Reid... Senator from a state with legalized gambling and
prostitution...
Go figure...
Go figure...
Rich | 9:30 a.m. April 30, 2008
Shurtleff has not done a single thing to combat polygamy. He has repeatedly
said it's impossible for hm to enforce laws against polygamy, so he has
chosen to continue to condone the practice while prosecuting other violations,
such as child abuse and welfare fraud. The message to polygamists has been
clear: Keep your noses clean withs respect to other Utah laws, and we'll
leave you alone. This was the same message the polygamists got after the Short
Creek raid years ago. Consequently, polygamists have multiplied, and they do
multiply quickly. Meanwhile, while the courts have ruled that states cannot
prevent homosexual activity outside marriage and the states themselves have
decided not to enforce laws against extramarital sexual affairs, I don't
see how they can expect the Supreme Court to uphold laws against polygamy. Many
of us think that attorneys general ought to enforce the law, period. If the
public doesn't like the laws, then the public will see that they're
changed. It should not be up to Shurtleff to pick and choose which laws to
enforce. The problem with selective enforcement is that it can be done to
punish political enemies (or even personal enemies) and/or to reward friends.
Freddie | 9:41 a.m. April 30, 2008
"Polygamy can be eradicated in the FLDS and similar groups the same way it
was eradicated 100 years ago in the LDS church: The government locks up all
those found living in illegal cohabitation, disincorporates the church and all
of its sub-entities, and seizes all of its assets, including temples."
They do that in Communist countries ruled by tyranny. Very effective.
They do that in Communist countries ruled by tyranny. Very effective.
re:rhparkman | 9:54 a.m. April 30, 2008
I remember alot of criticism of Texas for going in heavily armed. That maybe
what prevented alot of bloodshed. It is much better to go prepared and not need
it.
Mark marked | 9:58 a.m. April 30, 2008
Don't get Shurtleff riled up. He'll probably nuke Southern Utah.
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