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One phase of FLDS work is complete
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bcbob | 1:22 a.m. April 29, 2008
Mothers allowing their barely teen-age daughters to have sexual relations with
depraved middle aged males is truly abusive. All of their children should be
taken away from them in order to keep them from abusing more and more of their
children. As for the men, quite simply they need to be imprisoned for a long
period of time and the repulsive FLDS sex cult should be required to pay for the
cost of imprisoning the men and the cost of putting the children with new
parents.
It's interesting ... | 1:37 a.m. April 29, 2008
... how on a micro-economic scale, the burden of the FLDS is of great concern,
according to this article.
But spread across Utah and Arizona and across the entire United States as a whole, the millions upon millions of welfare fraud and economic burden of this decades-long financially abusing sect has never been a concern.
Just saying.
But spread across Utah and Arizona and across the entire United States as a whole, the millions upon millions of welfare fraud and economic burden of this decades-long financially abusing sect has never been a concern.
Just saying.
to bcbob | 4:32 a.m. April 29, 2008
Mothers allowing their barely teenage daughters to...
...get myspace accounts and post foul language and provocative photos of themselves...
...chat online with older men...
...dress like little prostitutes...
...go to parties and consume alcohol...
...watch hours of mind-numbing televisions and get lazy and fat...
...get pregnant and get an abortion, again and again...
... the list goes on and on. Problem is, these young girls are the ones next door to YOU, or maybe in YOUR HOME. And we, the moral authority, should have every right to simply take them away from you, after running your name through the media mud, of course.
How many "barely teen-age" FLDS girls have been proven to have had sex with "depraved middle-age men" ? Now, how many child rapes does Planned Parenthood cover up every day, and use your tax dollars to do it?
...get myspace accounts and post foul language and provocative photos of themselves...
...chat online with older men...
...dress like little prostitutes...
...go to parties and consume alcohol...
...watch hours of mind-numbing televisions and get lazy and fat...
...get pregnant and get an abortion, again and again...
... the list goes on and on. Problem is, these young girls are the ones next door to YOU, or maybe in YOUR HOME. And we, the moral authority, should have every right to simply take them away from you, after running your name through the media mud, of course.
How many "barely teen-age" FLDS girls have been proven to have had sex with "depraved middle-age men" ? Now, how many child rapes does Planned Parenthood cover up every day, and use your tax dollars to do it?
Comments continue below
AJ | 5:02 a.m. April 29, 2008
@bcbob:
If all the men are in jail as you desire, then it will be the wives that have to pay the costs. I presume that since you mention the men should be jailed and not the women, you see the men as guilty and the women as innocent. If that is the case, then it would not be correct to have the women pay the price of re-housing the children and jailing the men.
Other arguments that could be used:
1. Both the women and men are guilty and should be jailed.
2. Both the women and men are conditioned by their upbringing and thus are in need of counseling and not imprisonment.
No matter what is chosen from the above, the question remains of who is going to pay.
While I am not FLDS, I do think that outside of real abuse, we do not have the right to judge these people. As for their beliefs and non-abusive practices let God be the judge.
If all the men are in jail as you desire, then it will be the wives that have to pay the costs. I presume that since you mention the men should be jailed and not the women, you see the men as guilty and the women as innocent. If that is the case, then it would not be correct to have the women pay the price of re-housing the children and jailing the men.
Other arguments that could be used:
1. Both the women and men are guilty and should be jailed.
2. Both the women and men are conditioned by their upbringing and thus are in need of counseling and not imprisonment.
No matter what is chosen from the above, the question remains of who is going to pay.
While I am not FLDS, I do think that outside of real abuse, we do not have the right to judge these people. As for their beliefs and non-abusive practices let God be the judge.
Anonymous | 5:14 a.m. April 29, 2008
I was disappointed that none of the commentators who came after my contribution
to discussion around the Amy Mackert article (3.18 pm yesterday) had anything to
say about the plight of the boys who are cast loose from the FLDS on any handy
pretext to make way for elders who wish to have multiple wives. For every man
with five wives there are four boys who are pushed out into the cold. Come on
Deseret News - what about an in depth piece about what these discarded kids
think about what has been going on in the Texas ranch?
It is time to take more children | 6:33 a.m. April 29, 2008
Time for the State to take away all teenage mothers' babies and put them up
for adoption. These anchor babies are such a toll on our welfare system it is
time to begin rounding them up and putting them in good homes.
bcbob | 6:45 a.m. April 29, 2008
I agree with you. But dont' stop there. I demand that the innercity get
raided too. Lot's of teenage mom's there as well. And their
mom's were most likely teens when they gave birth. I know grandmothers who
are only 28! TWENTY EIGHT. No dad's in sight. No means of support,
except your dollar.
Raid them as well. You should not have a double standard.
Raid them as well. You should not have a double standard.
The Abuse | 6:57 a.m. April 29, 2008
31 of 53 Girls ages 12-17 are pregnant or have babies. Is anyone still faulting
Texas for Raiding this Compound. And some are saying they should leave the ones
under 12 because they are not being abused. We do not know that is the case only
the fact that they can not get pregnant. Even little boys are molested. Brent
Jeffs was by his uncles.
TEXAS | 7:15 a.m. April 29, 2008
Genocide ----- Texas has committed Genocide
Debbie | 7:19 a.m. April 29, 2008
Why aren't we hearing of any arrests of abusive men? It seems Texas is
only interested in punishing the victims. Yes, the mothers are victims too.
Anyone who has studied abuse knows that it takes little time to break a
person's spirit until they don't know anything else, they are numb and
accept what their captors tell them. Punishing psychologically (as well as
possibly physically and sexually) abused women by depriving them of their own
children is further abuse and is totally contrary to teaching them how to stand
up for themselves and avoid abuse in the future. Texas is reinforcing the fears
that have been put into their heads by their abusers - that the outside world
will hurt them.
Where are the experts in psychological abuse of women who could explain how this is not the way? You do not lock up the victims without sending a message that they are to blame for their abuse.
Yes, children need protection, but they would not be at risk staying with their mothers with proper help and counseling. The mothers are not the problem and the fact they didn't know how to protect the children does not make them abusers.
Where are the experts in psychological abuse of women who could explain how this is not the way? You do not lock up the victims without sending a message that they are to blame for their abuse.
Yes, children need protection, but they would not be at risk staying with their mothers with proper help and counseling. The mothers are not the problem and the fact they didn't know how to protect the children does not make them abusers.
Anonymous | 7:21 a.m. April 29, 2008
Im glad the CPS finally used their calculators.
gal50 | 7:51 a.m. April 29, 2008
When a mental list is compiled of why Utah and Arizona don't go after the
sect, the expense is one thing that comes to mind. Both are small states with
large FLDS populations.
Comparatively, Texas is a large state with a relatively small FLDS population. Here, it isn't going to blow the budget.
If this all came about because of Rosita Swinton, Texas must wonder how different the outcome would have been if it never got the call and the sect grew to contain thousands of well-guarded FLDS members or if an FLDS member finally broke rank ten years down the road when a raid would have been more costly and massive.
Comparatively, Texas is a large state with a relatively small FLDS population. Here, it isn't going to blow the budget.
If this all came about because of Rosita Swinton, Texas must wonder how different the outcome would have been if it never got the call and the sect grew to contain thousands of well-guarded FLDS members or if an FLDS member finally broke rank ten years down the road when a raid would have been more costly and massive.
the world | 7:51 a.m. April 29, 2008
You know what.
If you say the "cult" is illegal, then you certainly can't make them bear the costs of a worldy state seazing the children.
They are no more a "cult" than any other religion in America the free and the brave.
If you say the "cult" is illegal, then you certainly can't make them bear the costs of a worldy state seazing the children.
They are no more a "cult" than any other religion in America the free and the brave.
sj | 8:14 a.m. April 29, 2008
How in the name of humanity can the citizens of Texas, who watched this walled
city go up, just pretend things are alright? It seems to me it is a bit like
the trains of Jews in Germany when the farmers just kept on working, even
knowing murders and abuse were going on right beside them. Hard to believe just
what people will accept. Any woman who knowingly sets her daughter or son up
for this treatment (and they all know) is as guilty as the men who keep it
going.
And, what do these people do for a living? Who supports all those people?
And, what do these people do for a living? Who supports all those people?
Yah Right! | 8:31 a.m. April 29, 2008
The rumors that we are hearing about the FLDS are the same old rumors that used
to run around about the LDS people and their temples. The world is a fickle
place and loves a "bad" story. Until the REAl information comes out
through the legal system with lawyers and others looking at all the
"facts" we still may never know the REAL truth. It is all a
travesty...The poor families. I would never want to be in their shoes. By the
way, in my community in central Texas we have SUV vehicles with magnetice signs
that have popped up. These signs read "Baptist Disaster Relief Team".
No Kidding! I have never seen one before this week. I've lived here a LONG
time. What do you think the chances are that the Baptists, long time haters of
"CULTS!", are jumping to rescue all those lost souls? Think about
it...
Anthony Samuelson | 8:32 a.m. April 29, 2008
For the record, I am the author of the 5.14 a.m comment by
"Anonymous". I failed to fill in the box at the top by mistake.
Although I live in England I am appalled at the treatment accorded to both the
girls and boys by the FLDS. My reason for writing about the boys is that it
seems to me that their predicament is in danger of being overlooked. There is
something rather nasty about old men sharing out the female children among
themselves, which is what has been happening in the Texas Ranch, and the LDS is
to be admired for resolutely turning its back on polygamy. Likewise the state of
Texas is to be congratulated for doing everything possible to bring this abuse
to an end.
What are the chances, when the DNA results are in, of a dangerous degree of inbreeding, if not downright incest, coming to the surface?
What are the chances, when the DNA results are in, of a dangerous degree of inbreeding, if not downright incest, coming to the surface?
FLDS Deflecting | 8:40 a.m. April 29, 2008
FLDS apologists are deluded in thinking that simply because there are other
pregnant teenaged girls in this country and that other kids that are also
abused, that somehow justifies the FLDS in abusing their children.
Stop deflecting and admit that what you have been doing to your children is wrong.
Two wrongs never did make a right.
Stop trying to deflect criticism of your abusive lifestyle.
Stop forcing your daughters to submit to your child sexual abuse masquerading as "religious beliefs."
Stop abusing your sons by forcing them out of your community so that the old men will have less competition.
Stop abusing your families by reassigning them to different fathers.
Stop willfully breaking the law and then expecting the law to protect your "right" to abuse your children.
Stop deflecting and admit that what you have been doing to your children is wrong.
Two wrongs never did make a right.
Stop trying to deflect criticism of your abusive lifestyle.
Stop forcing your daughters to submit to your child sexual abuse masquerading as "religious beliefs."
Stop abusing your sons by forcing them out of your community so that the old men will have less competition.
Stop abusing your families by reassigning them to different fathers.
Stop willfully breaking the law and then expecting the law to protect your "right" to abuse your children.
to bcbob | 8:41 a.m. April 29, 2008
Thank you for your comment. I think you are right on. This isn't about
religion, this is about basic human rights. Percentage wise there are far more
pregnant teenagers outside the FLDS and lots of abortions. I am positive many of
them with older men met on the Internet.
Anonymous | 8:49 a.m. April 29, 2008
It is sad that religion has been used as an excuse for pedophilia. But the
goings-on at the FLDS ranch is only the latest string of abuses that people
perpetrate on others for the sake of belief. What's sad is that this sect
is not alone. There are others who practice this type of abuse localy under the
name of their particular faiths currently in Utah and other western states.
This has only come to light recently, but if the truth be told there are more
who are silently, secretly suffering under these twisted, warped religious
practices. It is time these others are exposed and investigated, and if
necessary shut down. As for the 1st ammendment, nothing in the constitution
guarantees the practice of pedophilia!
anonymous | 8:56 a.m. April 29, 2008
"If all the men are in jail as you desire, then it will be the wives that
have to pay the costs"
I don't think these guys are supporting their wives and children anyways. Most of them are on welfare, the wives that do work have to turn their paychecks over to their husbands.
I don't think these guys are supporting their wives and children anyways. Most of them are on welfare, the wives that do work have to turn their paychecks over to their husbands.
CA | 9:24 a.m. April 29, 2008
Bob- part of having freedom is having the freedom to make choices that you or I
may not approve. Grownups have the freedom to make life choices and
grownup/parents are charged with raising their kids to share their values. I
think we can agree on this.
However, these 13, 14 and 15 year old girls and boys do not have the freedom to reject the choices made for them by thier parents. Therin lies a problem.
Sure, some kids (and adults)across the country wear stupid clothes, get pregnant, make bad life choices, etc., however MOST do not.
And,I think the DNA testing will answer your question about how many old men have been siring kids with non-legal-aged girls. I suspect the answer won't be pretty.
Finally, Planned Parenthood is THE LARGEST PROVIDER of reproductine healthcare services in the county with over 4 million visits by men and women every year- more than ANY other healthcare organization in the US. They provide annual tests for cervical, breast and testicular cancer, and treat reproductive disease multiple thousands of times more than they provide pregnancy terminations, which are obvioulsy greatly desired as the numbers show.
Plus, most who terminate pregnancies identify as Christians.
However, these 13, 14 and 15 year old girls and boys do not have the freedom to reject the choices made for them by thier parents. Therin lies a problem.
Sure, some kids (and adults)across the country wear stupid clothes, get pregnant, make bad life choices, etc., however MOST do not.
And,I think the DNA testing will answer your question about how many old men have been siring kids with non-legal-aged girls. I suspect the answer won't be pretty.
Finally, Planned Parenthood is THE LARGEST PROVIDER of reproductine healthcare services in the county with over 4 million visits by men and women every year- more than ANY other healthcare organization in the US. They provide annual tests for cervical, breast and testicular cancer, and treat reproductive disease multiple thousands of times more than they provide pregnancy terminations, which are obvioulsy greatly desired as the numbers show.
Plus, most who terminate pregnancies identify as Christians.
Anonymous | 9:24 a.m. April 29, 2008
bcbob: You got it right except for one thing. A child is punished when you take
away a parent. Both parents in this case ought to have to do jail time. Not at
once tho so as to not deprive the child of any parents. Rotating terms for each
would serve the child better. The parents would be punished for breaking the
law, the child/children would have some time with each parent.
WBM5 | 9:43 a.m. April 29, 2008
Do the math... 58.5% of the girls are pregnant or mothers! Wow! That is
staggering!!!
What if over half of the girls at my daughter's school were pregnant or already mothers? How about your kids school? What about the nation as a whole. If this were the case we (as a nation) would feel we had a serious problem, but since we only care about ourselves and we hide behind religious freedom it is okay to allow this to happen to them.
This makes me sick!
As for inner city girls and their plight... money has been thrown at them for years. Program after program. Maybe it would be better if we did take away their kids and the monthly checks they get. That system doesn't work to get them out of it, but keep them depended on the system. Let's pay to have the girls educated then the birth rates will go down. That is proven.
What if over half of the girls at my daughter's school were pregnant or already mothers? How about your kids school? What about the nation as a whole. If this were the case we (as a nation) would feel we had a serious problem, but since we only care about ourselves and we hide behind religious freedom it is okay to allow this to happen to them.
This makes me sick!
As for inner city girls and their plight... money has been thrown at them for years. Program after program. Maybe it would be better if we did take away their kids and the monthly checks they get. That system doesn't work to get them out of it, but keep them depended on the system. Let's pay to have the girls educated then the birth rates will go down. That is proven.
Chemist | 9:49 a.m. April 29, 2008
I agree with bcbob. Also if the mothers were complicit in the abuse they should
also be prosecuted. It would not be the first time mothers have been imprisoned
for crimes they were involved in. The flds supporters really irritate me when
they paint a picture that implies that girls living outside the flds compounds
will end up being sexual at a young age. I raised daughters who were, and also
have grandchildren who are modest and chaste until marriage in their 20s.
Polygamy itself is illegal in Texas and Utah. Texas could, if they wished,
prosecute the flds for that. I understand the FBI is looking at the evidence
taken in the raid. This odious cult really needs to be shut down, otherwise they
will continue on their present course of lies, deception, polygamy, child abuse
racism, fraud, etc.
Anonymous | 9:50 a.m. April 29, 2008
that just great, i dont like the ideal of the flds having marry to young girl,
but how many of yall out there say it ok for or kids out there to day to have
premarry sex, ooooo it ok as long as they dont jump bed. just have it with one
person that they plan, if plan on marry. so what are you taching your kids out
there is ok to do, the lord said take the log out of you on eye first, and i
saying yall or putting the log in you on eye and teaching your kids to/////
TO: to bcbob | 9:55 a.m. April 29, 2008
Fear of predators on the internet has skewed your perspective. Do you know ONE,
even ONE teen girl victimized by an old man on the internet? The numbers of such
crimes are real but very low. Don't imagine the world, examine it and
observe it please.
anonymous | 9:58 a.m. April 29, 2008
What is to stop the CPS from going into any home in America and taking away an
mothers children.
That family has two parent that drink to much. CPS goes in takes away the children on the pretense that the kids might grow up to become alcoholics and drunk drivers.
This family allows their children to watch music videos. CPS comes in taks the kids away on the pretense that the children will become addicts, pimps and sluts.
Where does the line end and where does it begin?
That family has two parent that drink to much. CPS goes in takes away the children on the pretense that the kids might grow up to become alcoholics and drunk drivers.
This family allows their children to watch music videos. CPS comes in taks the kids away on the pretense that the children will become addicts, pimps and sluts.
Where does the line end and where does it begin?
Hoosier | 10:03 a.m. April 29, 2008
If you had a 14 year old neighbor girl who you had strong suspicions was having
sex with a 25 year old male your responsibility would be to call CPS. CPS would
investigate and if the evidence warranted the male would be prosecuted. If a
family member was doing it they would likely remove the girl from the family to
prevent further abuse. It would not mattter what religion the family is. To say
that this is based on religion is silly. It is based on protecting children
using the guidelines CPS operates on, those guidelines are quite different than
for criminal cases. I suspect that the dues, donations, whatever paid by the
flds members will have to go up to pay for all of the legal costs.
Charlotte Van Tielen | 10:10 a.m. April 29, 2008
Texas has made a royal mess of things. I am sure there would have been a much
better way to go about finding and punishing those who broke the law. I do not
sympathize with the teachings of the FLDS Church, but I do have sympathy for
their women and children. As an LDS woman, I pray that there might come some
resolution, one that would help the mothers reunite with their children.
Steve | 10:17 a.m. April 29, 2008
So if the alleged child abuse that justified taking these children was the
grooming of young girls to become child brides of middle aged men, how do they
justify the taking of the male children?
To:Yah Right 8:31 am | 10:17 a.m. April 29, 2008
FYI: The Baptist relief team has been around since 1967. They have thousands of
vehicles and over 70,000 voulenteers that respond to all disasters including a
major effort during Hurricane Katrina. They served over a million free meals
last year. I cant find the same from the FLDS. Google it.
to bad. | 10:20 a.m. April 29, 2008
the Texas Judge and police are hidding a lot, they are filtering the media so
the same thing wont happen to them like what happen to the shortcreek raid many
years ago. Almost every constituional law has been taken away from the FLDS
people. I fill sorry for them. Funny how the media always forgets to get the
FLDS side of the story. They say the FLDS people wont talk to them... no true
the Texas judge wont let them talk to the media, because if they do then she is
in big trouble.
Re; Anon 9:24 am | 10:24 a.m. April 29, 2008
Let me see if I have your opinion correct. You say that both parents are guility
of abuse so you suggest sending one parent abuser to jail and leave the kids
with the other parent abuser. When the first guility parent is paroled you place
the abused kids with that abuser and send the second abuser to prison. This is
very interesting! I just think your logic is a little flawed!
Ut eNative | 10:31 a.m. April 29, 2008
Yes the children are the Main Concern here, but this article mentions more
information about the State of Texas buget and what it has cost to them up to
now to go after the FLDS. Alot of things are horribly wrong with the FDLS, and
what has taken place in the compound, but it's even sadder they
wouldn't let the mothers go with the children, let alone the babies.
In additon to this, Texas needs to be as assertive with the drug lords and illegal aliens flooding the state, as they were in this case.
There's no place like home...Utah
In additon to this, Texas needs to be as assertive with the drug lords and illegal aliens flooding the state, as they were in this case.
There's no place like home...Utah
Look at yourselves | 10:34 a.m. April 29, 2008
It seems that for the most part, the people writing comments here are the ones
that read every slanderous article the media wishes to put out about the FLDS.
The children are sweet. Read your bibles and see how young the women were. You
LDS, you baptize your children at age eight--the age of accountability. How can
people who sit night after night watching what HOLLYWOOD wants to
"Brainwash" them with, have any honest judgement at all? Get your
facts before you judge. True facts do not come from the media, CPS, or the
government.
AJ | 10:40 a.m. April 29, 2008
@anonymous | 8:56 a.m. April 29, 2008:
From what I have read here and in other newspapers, it sounds like these people are self-sufficient. I have also read that they own real estate where they run farms, have financial investments in various businesses that bring in money and provide other services that bring in money (such as the cement factory on the ranch).
What is your basis for the welfare remark?
From what I have read here and in other newspapers, it sounds like these people are self-sufficient. I have also read that they own real estate where they run farms, have financial investments in various businesses that bring in money and provide other services that bring in money (such as the cement factory on the ranch).
What is your basis for the welfare remark?
Interested | 10:44 a.m. April 29, 2008
Thank you Hoosier, but why not follow your logic all the way through. If you did
report that you suspected your neighbors 14 year old daughter was having sex
with her 25 year old boyfriend and you called CPS would you be surprised when
they came into that home and took not only the 14 year old daughter but the 5
year old and the 1 year old also. Held them for 14 days without trial and with
out allowing the parents to see them and then put them into foster care with no
charges filed and the only explanation was that the were in imminent danger
because there was a pattern in that home of sex with an underage girl by older
men???
The fact that CPS claims that they followed procedure and that everything they did was legal (and based on what we can see from the media they did)and yet we have the results we see here should frighten every parent in America.
Your children are not yours. They are wards of the State. Any right or priviledges that you have with them are gifts to you from the State!
The fact that CPS claims that they followed procedure and that everything they did was legal (and based on what we can see from the media they did)and yet we have the results we see here should frighten every parent in America.
Your children are not yours. They are wards of the State. Any right or priviledges that you have with them are gifts to you from the State!
Jon Whitney | 10:45 a.m. April 29, 2008
If instead of being a small religious sect, the FLDS were a Native American (or
Asian or African or any other) tribe that practiced polygamy, and in which the
common marriage age was in the teens for girls and from the teens to old age for
the men, would this raid have happened? Would the common cultural practices of
such a tribe be considered "abuse"? For the moral relativists among
us, the answer has to be "no, it's not abuse." For the moral
absolutists, myself included, the answer may be "yes" but the solution
would be to send missionaries among them to teach the truth and convert their
hearts from such wicked practices - not to commit, as the state of Texas has,
ethnic cleansing. I only call it that instead of genocide, because it was done
without bloodshed.
Grandma | 10:50 a.m. April 29, 2008
Papers in Canada are reporting that 15 of the children in custody are Canadians
from B.C. I wonder how many others are from other countries. I have also been
wondering why these children have not been returned to Canada. That would save
Texas money.
Interesting note.
The age of Consent in B.C. is 14 which is different from Texas. Many have fought to change it with no success. The attorney general here has been advised by legal authorities that if polygamy is challenged by the courts it would likely become legal. In England I have been told that polygamous marriages are recognized as long as they were performed in a country where they were legal.
Interesting note.
The age of Consent in B.C. is 14 which is different from Texas. Many have fought to change it with no success. The attorney general here has been advised by legal authorities that if polygamy is challenged by the courts it would likely become legal. In England I have been told that polygamous marriages are recognized as long as they were performed in a country where they were legal.
billy | 10:50 a.m. April 29, 2008
To Anthony Samuelson: You are correct there is massive inbreeding and there
have been articles about that. One of the founders aparently had a recessive
gene that causes a very rare condition that causes extreme retardation. The
percentage of children born with this is expected to explode over the next few
generations.
Chemist | 10:55 a.m. April 29, 2008
Re: To Bad, 10:20 am.
I would really like to hear to from one of the flds leaders. I am sure that if Merrill Jessop or someone like that called one of the networks and wanted to be interviewed they would accomodate him. So far the flds spokesperson is their lawyer, Rod Parker, who is not, and never has been a member of the group. I would really like an flds leader to give their side rather than the hired attorney. How can the judge prevent anyone not in state custody from appearing on a TV show?
I would really like to hear to from one of the flds leaders. I am sure that if Merrill Jessop or someone like that called one of the networks and wanted to be interviewed they would accomodate him. So far the flds spokesperson is their lawyer, Rod Parker, who is not, and never has been a member of the group. I would really like an flds leader to give their side rather than the hired attorney. How can the judge prevent anyone not in state custody from appearing on a TV show?
jmd | 11:01 a.m. April 29, 2008
It's nice to finally see some comments that make sense. This is about the
rights and/or protection of children. I am proud to live in a country that at
least tries to help those who can't help themselves. Nothing is perfect
but I believe that the authorities in Texas are trying to do right thing. The
FLDS cult has been engaging in these type of disgusting practices for years and
have gotten away with it in a large part because of public outcry against the
government getting involved. The ones in control of the cult are well aware of
publicity and how to manipulate our democratic society. Seriously how many women
and young girls do you know that would live this way if they had a choice and
truly understood the alternatives (void of threat of eternal damnation)?
It's absurd to compare young people who engage in sex at their own choosing
to those who are forced into it by intimidation or threats.
New Mexico | 11:23 a.m. April 29, 2008
The children should be our first concern, however, the welfare situation must be
staggering. I have long questioned where FLDS gets their funds, and would like
to know who pays for what. In a way, this story is somewhat like the tyrant in
Austria who kept his daughter captive for 24 years. Who do these FLDS men think
they are anyway? Arrogant is one description for sure. They proclaim that sex
is not the issue with multiple wives and children, so what is the issue? I say
that they cannot exist out in the normal world, and couldn't find anyone to
marry them anyway, so they invented this sick and twisted way of life. Jail is
the answer for all the adults, and yes, if they are found to have accepted
welfare wrongly, they should sell any assets and pay it back!
More than Half | 11:31 a.m. April 29, 2008
More than half the girls at the FLDS ranch/prison that are capable of being
pregnant are either pregnant or have already had children.
Sorry "to bcbob @ 4:32 a.m." but 60 percent of high school girls are NOT pregnant. 60 percent of them don't even have sex. I bet the number of FLDS teenager girls that have had sex is probably closer to 80 percent. Statistically, if you are an FLDS teenage girl at YFZ ranch/prison you are more likely to have sex and get pregnant than the average girl outside of the YFZ ranch/prison. And don't forget, the girls inside YFZ ranch/prison are forced to have sex.
Good move Texas. 60 percent is clear evidence girls are raised and forced to have sex with older men.
Sorry "to bcbob @ 4:32 a.m." but 60 percent of high school girls are NOT pregnant. 60 percent of them don't even have sex. I bet the number of FLDS teenager girls that have had sex is probably closer to 80 percent. Statistically, if you are an FLDS teenage girl at YFZ ranch/prison you are more likely to have sex and get pregnant than the average girl outside of the YFZ ranch/prison. And don't forget, the girls inside YFZ ranch/prison are forced to have sex.
Good move Texas. 60 percent is clear evidence girls are raised and forced to have sex with older men.
Scared American | 11:39 a.m. April 29, 2008
What are we doing to bring the FLDS Children Back to their loving Mothers?
This is the worst attack on the Constitution and our Country I have ever seen, it stands to do more damage than if a nuke had been dropped on us.
If the state of Texas is allowed to walk on Americans Constitutional Rights as they are doing now, we are at risk of losing our Country.
I don't believe anything is worth giving up our Constitution, if we can't follow the constitution in bringing Criminals to justice, then criminals should go free, it's not worth the trade off, however if we can do an investigation "without destroying the constitution" bring criminals to justice all the better. And if a Investigation is done and find those people to be innocent. What shame will be on us as fellow Americans it is not just our right but our duty to defend fellow Americans and The Constitution whenever we see them threatened, by no other means can we call our self's Patriots.
This is the worst attack on the Constitution and our Country I have ever seen, it stands to do more damage than if a nuke had been dropped on us.
If the state of Texas is allowed to walk on Americans Constitutional Rights as they are doing now, we are at risk of losing our Country.
I don't believe anything is worth giving up our Constitution, if we can't follow the constitution in bringing Criminals to justice, then criminals should go free, it's not worth the trade off, however if we can do an investigation "without destroying the constitution" bring criminals to justice all the better. And if a Investigation is done and find those people to be innocent. What shame will be on us as fellow Americans it is not just our right but our duty to defend fellow Americans and The Constitution whenever we see them threatened, by no other means can we call our self's Patriots.
Leroy G. | 11:48 a.m. April 29, 2008
CPS says:
31 of 53 girls 14 to 17 are pregnant or we believe they have children.
26 with disputed ages who claim to be over 18.
That leaves 6 right? 6 who would fall into the category of undisputed. So why don't they give us the ages of those 6 undisputed teens? Probably because they do not know the ages there either. Guessing games!! Maybe they think these could be 17 too and won't say that because then the case falls apart. They hope that they are right and they are actually underage and pregnant etc. We as the public need to recognize that they may not be.
If a 24 and 28 yr old are still classed as 17 then they as a group must look very young but looking and being are different things.
The Texas Rangers took the documentation during the raid. Sooner or later it will be sorted out but in the present, the 26 get to stay with their babies and or other children of FLDS.
31 of 53 girls 14 to 17 are pregnant or we believe they have children.
26 with disputed ages who claim to be over 18.
That leaves 6 right? 6 who would fall into the category of undisputed. So why don't they give us the ages of those 6 undisputed teens? Probably because they do not know the ages there either. Guessing games!! Maybe they think these could be 17 too and won't say that because then the case falls apart. They hope that they are right and they are actually underage and pregnant etc. We as the public need to recognize that they may not be.
If a 24 and 28 yr old are still classed as 17 then they as a group must look very young but looking and being are different things.
The Texas Rangers took the documentation during the raid. Sooner or later it will be sorted out but in the present, the 26 get to stay with their babies and or other children of FLDS.
Hoosier | 11:50 a.m. April 29, 2008
Re: Interested 10:44 am.
Yes, I belive that in that hypothetical situation CPS could and probably would take all of the children from the home. CPS could also keep the children as long as they thought the children would be endangered if put back into the home. Agreed that CPS in all US states has a great deal of power.
Is it too much? Do they err on taking children un- neccesarily? Do they err in not taking them in some situations or in putting children back in the home when they should not have? Yes to all of the above. If you don't like the guidelines your state CPS works under get with your state ligislators to get them changed. In the meantime don't try to apply the normal rules of criminal jurispendence to CPS.
Yes, I belive that in that hypothetical situation CPS could and probably would take all of the children from the home. CPS could also keep the children as long as they thought the children would be endangered if put back into the home. Agreed that CPS in all US states has a great deal of power.
Is it too much? Do they err on taking children un- neccesarily? Do they err in not taking them in some situations or in putting children back in the home when they should not have? Yes to all of the above. If you don't like the guidelines your state CPS works under get with your state ligislators to get them changed. In the meantime don't try to apply the normal rules of criminal jurispendence to CPS.
Anonymous | 12:09 p.m. April 29, 2008
How many of the people commenting here personally know the FLDS people? Is all
the comments based on hearsay and media?
CA | 12:09 p.m. April 29, 2008
That's some real bad math on your part, Leroy. Reread the story.
hmmm | 12:11 p.m. April 29, 2008
Seems to me if they found even one girl that was 15 or yonger that was pregnant
they would shout "HEY WE FOUND ONE!!!!!!!!!!!" and go arrest someone,
but no they are saying "We believe that 31 of them either have children or
are pregnant." Why dont they say how many they have that are REALLY
underage and pregnant. I think we are being fed a line. They already striped
these little girls and "checked" them for sexual abuse, and nobody got
arrested. The only proof i have ever seen is from somebody who is selling a book
they wrote. Hmmm.
Every body who says we need to stop these people from the systematic abuse needs to quit believing everything the media feeds us because they obviously want to print the most sensational story they can. Hmmm. Or are all the antiFLDS posters really the authors of a sensational book? Hmmm. Ill just wait and watch. It seems from the more recent stories ive seen the FLDS side of the story is more sensatonal then the exFLDS side.
Hmmm
Every body who says we need to stop these people from the systematic abuse needs to quit believing everything the media feeds us because they obviously want to print the most sensational story they can. Hmmm. Or are all the antiFLDS posters really the authors of a sensational book? Hmmm. Ill just wait and watch. It seems from the more recent stories ive seen the FLDS side of the story is more sensatonal then the exFLDS side.
Hmmm
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