Reader comments
FLDS Church lawyers taking steps to sue Texas
33 comments | Read story
Bot | 6:13 a.m. April 29, 2008
Jail the fathers of children conceived when the mother was 15 or less, but
release the others. No one can care for the children better than their natural
mothers.
I hope the FLDS get a large settlement from the State of Texas, which will rein in its out-of-control CPS.
Polygamy will not be found to be illegal, given the diabolical U.S. Supreme Court precedent of Lawrence v. Texas.
I hope the FLDS get a large settlement from the State of Texas, which will rein in its out-of-control CPS.
Polygamy will not be found to be illegal, given the diabolical U.S. Supreme Court precedent of Lawrence v. Texas.
Re:Mrs. Johnson | 7:00 a.m. April 29, 2008
31 of 53 girls between the age of 12 and 17 are either pregnant or have babies.
NO ABUSE????
Comments continue below
uncannygunman | 7:24 a.m. April 29, 2008
And so it begins . . . .
Re Mrs Johnson | 7:47 a.m. April 29, 2008
Thank you I have already mad a donation hopefully these mothers will be reunited
with there children but I am sure it will have to reach the federal courts
before all the children are returned.
I hope the state of Texas and the CPS will have to pay for their error.
What a bunch of idiots maybe we should bird dog everyone that was involved in taking these children and see how they raise their children.
I hope the state of Texas and the CPS will have to pay for their error.
What a bunch of idiots maybe we should bird dog everyone that was involved in taking these children and see how they raise their children.
To: Mrs Johnson | 8:24 a.m. April 29, 2008
It is being reported that 31 of 53 girls between the age of 12 and 17 either
have babies or they are pregnant. This is child abuse. It could be that all 53
have been molested and not become pregnant yet. It could also be that many under
age 12 have also been molested. Some say they would not molest girls under 12
because they only do it to reproduce. If that is the case why do they also
molest the little boys. This is documented by Brent Jeffs as well as others.
Paula | 8:28 a.m. April 29, 2008
"New statistics released Monday indicate that 53 of the girls are between
the ages of 14 and 17. "We believe that 31 of them either have children or
are pregnant," Crimmins said. "In most cases, that's what the
girls have told us."
Sacrificing underage girls to marry and have children IS ABUSE.
Sacrificing underage girls to marry and have children IS ABUSE.
Gnostic | 9:00 a.m. April 29, 2008
31 and why the number will change.
First we know that Math is not the strong suite at Texas CPS. I have not been able to keep up with their body count.
Second problem is the age grouping. 17 is the legal age of consent so why is it included in any of these reports?
Third problem is CPS coercion. Ages are being based on the statements of the children. We have 20 mothers faced with being 18 and forcible separated from nursing children or being 17 and allowed to stay with their children.
Finally the fact that the original quote was quickly published as fact without critical evaluation tells me it is propaganda published by the state.
Shame on you for donating to | 9:18 a.m. April 29, 2008
the FLDS! Guess you excuse abuse don't ya?
wrz | 9:22 a.m. April 29, 2008
>>31 of 53 girls between the age of 12 and 17 are either pregnant or have
babies. NO ABUSE????<<
Didn't you mean to say that "31 of the 53 girls between the age of "ONE" and 18, etc...?"
And remember, Texas felt it was OK for 14 year olds to marry and get pregnant before FLDS came to town. Why did Texas have an epiphany and suddenly decide it was an abuse? Go figure.
Didn't you mean to say that "31 of the 53 girls between the age of "ONE" and 18, etc...?"
And remember, Texas felt it was OK for 14 year olds to marry and get pregnant before FLDS came to town. Why did Texas have an epiphany and suddenly decide it was an abuse? Go figure.
I Man Fraidddd.... | 9:27 a.m. April 29, 2008
Re: Mrs. Johnson
Get ready, you're more likely to see members of the FLDS in an 'Orange Jumper suit' than a big backlash against TX.
Sex with underage girls is a crime... PERIOD! No amount of moaning will make civil society think otherwise.
A jury of citizens in TX will convict the wrong doers.
If TX needs to raise money to care for the children, then I'll donate. Same for the FLDS women. Nothing to the FLDS structure.
Get ready, you're more likely to see members of the FLDS in an 'Orange Jumper suit' than a big backlash against TX.
Sex with underage girls is a crime... PERIOD! No amount of moaning will make civil society think otherwise.
A jury of citizens in TX will convict the wrong doers.
If TX needs to raise money to care for the children, then I'll donate. Same for the FLDS women. Nothing to the FLDS structure.
Red | 9:32 a.m. April 29, 2008
Re: Mrs. Johnson: "31 of 53 girls between the age of 12 and 17 are either
pregnant or have babies. NO ABUSE????"
Depends.
First of all, the "between 12 and 17" was based on watching the young ladies, nothing more, and several -- many? most? -- of them claim to be 18.
Second, "12 to 17" is a significant span. If you've got 31 pregnant 12-year-olds, someone's looking at doing serious time.
On the other hand, if you're talking 17-year-olds, it's a little more nuanced.
They still may be considered victims, even if of age to consent, if the State claims the men involved were in a "position of trust." Given the environment at the ranch, I think Texas will give this a shot if they have to.
Another strategy Texas may try is to claim the "marrieds" are too closely related under Texas law.
None of this relieves Texas of following its own laws, though. Removing toddlers and kindergartners because they faced "imminent danger" -- i.e., danger now, not in ten or 15 years -- was IMO highly problematic.
Depends.
First of all, the "between 12 and 17" was based on watching the young ladies, nothing more, and several -- many? most? -- of them claim to be 18.
Second, "12 to 17" is a significant span. If you've got 31 pregnant 12-year-olds, someone's looking at doing serious time.
On the other hand, if you're talking 17-year-olds, it's a little more nuanced.
They still may be considered victims, even if of age to consent, if the State claims the men involved were in a "position of trust." Given the environment at the ranch, I think Texas will give this a shot if they have to.
Another strategy Texas may try is to claim the "marrieds" are too closely related under Texas law.
None of this relieves Texas of following its own laws, though. Removing toddlers and kindergartners because they faced "imminent danger" -- i.e., danger now, not in ten or 15 years -- was IMO highly problematic.
Send money to the kids | 9:55 a.m. April 29, 2008
Not the FLDS. The FLDS already takes your tax dollars. Do NOT send money to this
cult and group of abusers!
amazed | 10:14 a.m. April 29, 2008
If you read the articles thoroughly you will notice that it mentions that alot
of these 31 girls claim to be of age but CPS has determined they probally(???)
are not. When they wont acknowledge a birth certificate and drivers licences as
valid ID,seems to me CPS doesn't want the facts,and what about the 3 (yes
thats right 3!!) under age gils they've determined to be pregnant. Well
let's see 1 is almost 18, and 1 refused a test.....SO there is 1 and I
would really like to know her age!!!
Susan Westberg | 10:48 a.m. April 29, 2008
I think the Texas CPS is desperate to find more than they have. It is claimed
that many girls are over 18 but lied in order to stay with their children. Many
girls also have birth certificates which Texas refuses to honor. Is Texas
removing all the young girls who are pregnant by older boyfriends in the general
population? Are we taking all the Catholic children because they could be
abused by a priest? Texas needs to bring some sanity back in the process. Keep
the teen girls and send all the boys and young children back and have protective
services monitor them on site and have Texas sit down with them and set some
ground rules on what they both can accept. God bless.
I Man Fraidddd.... | 11:41 a.m. April 29, 2008
Susan,
I do recall that the authorities in some states have arrested priests for crimes against boys. The difference is that with girls you can see they're pregnant, underage; for boys, you have to rely on them saying something. CPS responded to a call at YFZ ranch, could see pregnant underage girls and rightfully removed them. CPS also had info on past pratices of FLDS treatment of boys, and rightfully removed the boys, pending review by the court.
The Sheriff in his prior visits to the ranch thought there were no more then 150 folks at the ranch. They saw upwards of 400 children. Add to that, none of the parents/adults were giving truthful info about the kid.
What parent willfully lies about their kids age and other facts?
Their actions undermined their credibility, and the TX authorities had to act.
Bravo to TX!!
I do recall that the authorities in some states have arrested priests for crimes against boys. The difference is that with girls you can see they're pregnant, underage; for boys, you have to rely on them saying something. CPS responded to a call at YFZ ranch, could see pregnant underage girls and rightfully removed them. CPS also had info on past pratices of FLDS treatment of boys, and rightfully removed the boys, pending review by the court.
The Sheriff in his prior visits to the ranch thought there were no more then 150 folks at the ranch. They saw upwards of 400 children. Add to that, none of the parents/adults were giving truthful info about the kid.
What parent willfully lies about their kids age and other facts?
Their actions undermined their credibility, and the TX authorities had to act.
Bravo to TX!!
Daisy | 11:54 a.m. April 29, 2008
Way to go FLDS. Texas richly deserves to be sued over this fiasco. It's
doubtful Texas CPS had the goal of saving the children in the first place.
Harassing a religion they don't want for neighbors in Eldorado, Texas seems
more likely.
starall | 12:36 p.m. April 29, 2008
Innocent until proven guilty,used to be.
Nationally 2800 teens get pregnant each day,one-quarter of 15 year old females have had sex,just some stats I found.We need to start building more jails,and hire more foster parents.
Nationally 2800 teens get pregnant each day,one-quarter of 15 year old females have had sex,just some stats I found.We need to start building more jails,and hire more foster parents.
The Green Hornet | 1:06 p.m. April 29, 2008
Thank God the Texans have taken control of this. It is unthinkable that people
feel it is there right to molest children in the name of God.
Let�s not lose site of the fact that:
A. molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
Where is the Utah Attorney General in all of this? He feels polygamy is not serious enough to prosecute? That the state of Utah has no the resources to go after these kind of people? My word. This man needs to be replaced with someone with some moral fiber and values.
This behavior has been going on for long enough in this state, and for The Attorney General to perpetuate this kind of behavior is shameful.
We (Utah) should be prosecuting these criminals. Not sitting on the sidelines waiting for Texas to clean up this mess. Utah should show some leadership and step up to the front and show the WORLD that we truly look out for the children of this state and we are leaders in protecting their rights against the evil people that would harm them.
A. molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
Where is the Utah Attorney General in all of this? He feels polygamy is not serious enough to prosecute? That the state of Utah has no the resources to go after these kind of people? My word. This man needs to be replaced with someone with some moral fiber and values.
This behavior has been going on for long enough in this state, and for The Attorney General to perpetuate this kind of behavior is shameful.
We (Utah) should be prosecuting these criminals. Not sitting on the sidelines waiting for Texas to clean up this mess. Utah should show some leadership and step up to the front and show the WORLD that we truly look out for the children of this state and we are leaders in protecting their rights against the evil people that would harm them.
TxBluesMan | 1:32 p.m. April 29, 2008
It is a good thing that most of y'all aren't from Texas....
It makes it so much easier to ignore you.
'Sides, I haven't noticed that your house is in order, felons running all over the place, ignoring the law, children being sexually assaulted under the guise religion....
If y'all want a lesson on how to take care of business, come on out, we'll show you.
If you just want to bellyache, the line forms in California.
It makes it so much easier to ignore you.
'Sides, I haven't noticed that your house is in order, felons running all over the place, ignoring the law, children being sexually assaulted under the guise religion....
If y'all want a lesson on how to take care of business, come on out, we'll show you.
If you just want to bellyache, the line forms in California.
Just me | 5:04 p.m. April 29, 2008
I believe that people should stop thinking and assuming things and start finding
out the real truth. People often judge others from their own hearts and the
state of Texas will be sorry for their unjustice.
wrz | 5:23 p.m. April 29, 2008
>>Get ready, you're more likely to see members of the FLDS in an
'Orange Jumper suit' than a big backlash against TX.<<
You're most likely right. Too bad to, because some Americans have had their rights thoroughly trampled to bits... The scary thing is that few seem to care.
You're most likely right. Too bad to, because some Americans have had their rights thoroughly trampled to bits... The scary thing is that few seem to care.
There are other things | 5:50 p.m. April 29, 2008
They should go after the FLDS cult for all their government fraud. These people
are bad. They just cannot let them get away with all their horrible abuse!
starall | 10:18 p.m. April 29, 2008
You should always trust your Government officials,whatever they say or do can be
trusted 100%
Thotman | 7:27 a.m. April 30, 2008
As bad as the FLDS may be, the Texas machine is worse. Abuse here has always
been vague, not specific. I have yet to have ONE case with even a pseudo name
age and dates presented. The claim that 31 of 53 are minors pregnant or a
parent, is misleading at best and propaganda at its worst. If the age one can
marry is 16 in the state of Texas, If the parents are monogamous and if the
children are male, why have they been removed from their parent/parents? This
shotgun approach to the situation will in the end cause the state of Texas some
serious legal problems when the Feds become involved. Due process and the Texas
CPS'ignoring the constitutional rights of those who were NOT abusers will
prove to be very profitable for the children and mothers who have been abused in
a way far more frightening than anything this strange sect has done. There are
two concerns...the welfare of the children and our rights under the law as
Americans. The latter is more frightning and harder to stop. Its time to put
Texas and its gestapo in the spotlight. The press seems oblivious to it.
RCowger | 2:55 p.m. April 30, 2008
Well, here is an excerpt from the Waco Tribune article about the children left in a home in Waco.
-----------------------
Gilliam said the Methodist Children�s Home staff is �exhausted� but has been working diligently to help the children develop structure in their lives.
At the same time, staff members are respecting rituals the children are known to practice.
The girls, for example, spend hours in small groups each morning and evening brushing and fastening their long hair. The children still wear the prairie-style dresses and attire they�ve always worn. And they�re housed separately from the 180 other youths living at the Methodist Children�s Home.
Gilliam said the staff is letting the children from West Texas stick to their routines as much as possible. Some of the older children are being permitted to take on leadership roles in caring for the younger ones.
�They�re very active, incredibly cute and virtually, psychologically, they�re all siblings,� he said.
--------------------------
They do not seem too despondent and despoiled to me according to that statement given above.
Dang, I wish I had "siblings" when I was in Boy Scouts or in High School. I was very much alone.
Makro | 5:52 p.m. April 30, 2008
the CPS is staffed by high school dropouts. i wonder when did they actually
learned how to count? they they seem to do it well, even though, they still get
confused counting more than 20.
Christo | 6:40 p.m. April 30, 2008
By definition a false accusation does not represent the reality. but it exposes
the mind of the accuser. The accuser makes up stuff from within. So whoever
accuses these people that they have sex with minors and did not witnessed it
personally is unconsciously explaining what he would do in their place.
the black woman lied in the phone call, but was speaking her mind, her exact own experiences. she didn't, for example, say, about money laundering.
And whoever posts about what these people DO, and does not personally know, is speaking of himself
search "Alex Jones covering serious CPS corruption April 4, 2007"
the black woman lied in the phone call, but was speaking her mind, her exact own experiences. she didn't, for example, say, about money laundering.
And whoever posts about what these people DO, and does not personally know, is speaking of himself
search "Alex Jones covering serious CPS corruption April 4, 2007"
J T | 9:26 p.m. April 30, 2008
Abolish the CPS It is a fraud!!!!
strike CPS back | 5:26 p.m. May 3, 2008
FLDS need to press private criminal charges against the state CPS workers for
acting in a bad faith , criminal obduction , cospiracy and racketeering with the
purpose to profit from wrongdoing. As soon the FLDS acts, the better chance the
case to succeed and go to criminal trial. You can get a jury to hear your case.
Thomas | 3:44 p.m. May 5, 2008
The Flds needs to take this to Federal Court. Due Process does not exist in a
Texas court room.
A voice from inside. | 3:19 p.m. May 11, 2008
We are not liars, we are not abusers, we are a clean people and only seek
peace!!! What CPS has done to us and our children is horrible. Our lives and
the lives our children will forever be traumatized because of the false
accusations the state of Texas and CPS have put upon us. What they have done
and are doing is WRONG!!! Are there any warm blooded Americans who will stand up
for innocence and truth? We need our precious children back!!!
Mrs. Mom | 11:34 a.m. May 21, 2008
Something should have been done years ago. Texas might not have done everything
right, but it needed to be done. I had a sixteen year old freind who fled from
this coult years ago because they wanted to marry her off. Children have no
choice. She died a few years later of cancer and had to go back. I think they
need to look into further possible crimes. All the unmarked grave sights ect.
Thank heavens the State of Texas had the guts to act. This has gone on 100 years
too long! Are children even with their natural Mothers? This society is a
complete mess. And I would take a bat to any man who wanted to marry or touch my
daughter at such a young age. I am a Utah Mormon and give a big Thankyou to
Texas!
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Marines see end of deployment 2:59 p.m.
- Colo. gov's lawn draped in toilet paper 2:42 p.m.
- Packers beat Lions 34-12 2:12 p.m.
- Dad locked kids in trunk 1:46 p.m.
- Korver's return hits snag 12:59 p.m.
- Salt Lake City woman shot 12:53 p.m.
- Woman suffers critical injury 12:50 p.m.
- China vows to slow emissions 12:18 p.m.
- Baseball player on mission in Wash. 12:10 p.m.
- Foundation for LDS young women 12:10 p.m.
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies
- Cave rescuers committed to free man
- Holiday television program listings
- Rivalry has had some 'turkeys'
- Highland players make special friend
- Temple Square to use LEDs
- Missions teach players perseverance
- Syracuse woman gets 1 year in jail
- Twitterati to BCS: 'We hate you.'
- Matt Reynolds vs. Koa Misi
- BYU would like friendlier rivalry
261 - Glenn Beck to enter politics?228
- Protests against Phoenix LDS temple210
- RSL wins MLS Cup on penalty kicks202
- Bronco, Kyle rubber match139
- BYU records with win133
- Letters: Rushing to judge Palin131
- Thunder rolls by Jazz128
- Boys basketball rankings115
- Editorial: Poor welcome for Palin112
Latest comments
Why don't you get a staff writing job for the DN? You certainly write enough...
Why doesn't the Church require all LDS members to visit SLC at least once in...
Wow, First time I've ever commented on an article. Best story of the entire...
Don't sleep on Keith Moore, that young man can do anything Durant can or...
Whatthe heck were these idiots thinking??? Shoot first just because??? Lock...
One of my buddies is a huge bulls fan, he used to think noah wasn't any good,...
dont sleep on west jordan,they have the best coach in the state and they also...
Did this caving group have the required permits? I too would like to see the...
I understand that incremental costs can cause things (anything) to spiral out...
We're so saddened by this. We've known John for a little over a year, and...
Advertisements
I'm a Canadian who has personally witnessed the bully tactics of CPS in this country - they really need to be sued and taught a strong lesson: don't mess with families, especially when any reasonable person would conclude THERE HAS BEEN NO ABUSE. Get a real job, and quit ruining people's lives. Every single day, somewhere in the world, these bullies, without due process, rob parents of their children, and it's all done to perpetuate the government mooching. Get a real job, and do something productive with your lives - quit bringing devastation and heartbreak to innocent families.
I am going to be donating even more money to the FLDS, and I can't wait to see the day of victory, when CPS and the State of Texas are exposed for the bullies they are.