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This won't be 'another Short Creek'
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ayzel | 2:30 a.m. April 28, 2008
Yay! Hilderbran. Thank goodness somebody updated that ridiculous law. No 14 year
old is mature enough to have a long term boyfriend, nevermind get married! It is
absurd that it took so long to raise that age up. For once a republican got it
right.
Me | 2:59 a.m. April 28, 2008
So Harvey, you idea of punishing the men is to take the children from their
mothers? Sort of like stopping bullies by taking the rest of the kids off the
playground.
Comments continue below
Interloper | 3:30 a.m. April 28, 2008
It should also be noted that the Texas Criminal Code makes it a crime for a
person more than three years older than a minor under 17 to have sex with such a
minor. Some of the FLDS defenders are relying on the girls being older than 14
at the time of carnal knowledge as a way out. But, even so, most men involved
in the conduct would be more than three years older than the minor.
Chuckles55 | 3:33 a.m. April 28, 2008
Only time and legal trials will vindicate Texas authorities or show their
mistakes. I suspect that Mr. Hilderbran is crossing his fingers and hoping that
their laws will stand up. Religious freedom still has a bit to say about how
all this will end up in the long run. Child sexual abuse should not be
tolerated. However, early marriage and raising a family to serve God as the
FLDS believe is a totally different thing. A woman who leaves the FLDS and
joins a very vocal Christian church should not be allowed to define what others
who remain in the FLDS really believe just as LDS, Baptist, Catholic apostates
are not very good sources for evaluating the beliefs and doctrines of their
respective religions.
DB | 4:15 a.m. April 28, 2008
In other words, up until the time that FLDS moved in, Texas thought it was
perfectly OK for 13 year old females to be married with parental consent (yes
13, not 14 as this aricle states).
KHgrizzly | 4:24 a.m. April 28, 2008
Thank you Rep. Harvey Hilderbran of Texas!
As a 67 year old member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I applaud your efforts. May God bless the good people of Texas!
khs@xmission.com
As a 67 year old member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I applaud your efforts. May God bless the good people of Texas!
khs@xmission.com
SJ Bobkins | 4:29 a.m. April 28, 2008
Marriage law should be simple: No female child can be legally married without
both parents (exception 1 parent if 1 parent has legal custody) permission if
she is under 18. No female child can be married if under the age of 16, with
concent. A female child under 16 is considered a victim of rape, regardless of
consent, if the person having sex with the child, is more than 5 years older.
Marriage of the female child under 16 to a man more than 5 years her senior is
not legal and binding, hence the male partner is charged with rape, regardless
of consent.
A man or woman can be married to no more than 1 man or woman, of the opposite sex, at one time. A common law marriage is considered a legal marriage if there have been sexually relations between the parties.
(this should help separated spouses, clarify the consequences of their actions, recalling that until a divorce is final they are indeed married)
Why doesn't Utah have a simple common sense law such as this? I welcome your comments.
A man or woman can be married to no more than 1 man or woman, of the opposite sex, at one time. A common law marriage is considered a legal marriage if there have been sexually relations between the parties.
(this should help separated spouses, clarify the consequences of their actions, recalling that until a divorce is final they are indeed married)
Why doesn't Utah have a simple common sense law such as this? I welcome your comments.
Not Surprised | 4:48 a.m. April 28, 2008
This guy makes my skin crawl, and makes me ashamed to call myself not only a
Republican, but an American. What a crock to tailor legislation again a
specific religion. They certainly have no problem with young unmarried,
immature girls slutting around Dallas or Houston with older men getting
pregnant. No...you take responsibility and you're charged with a crime. I
look forward to the day your state gets charged with crimes against humanity.
Rico | 5:28 a.m. April 28, 2008
A little late for that. It's already another Short Creek.
Lois in NC | 5:51 a.m. April 28, 2008
I agree with the sentiments of this lawyer and hope the State of Texas can
protect these children from the environment they were growing up in. This is sad
for all concerned.
Hoosier | 5:54 a.m. April 28, 2008
My reading of Harvey Hildebran's comments are;
The political establishment in Texas will go to great lengths to support the Texas CPS. Texas does not want the flds there. If my reading is correct the flds won't be getting their children back for a long time, if ever. Life for the flds at the YFZ compound will never return to what it was like before the raid. Will the flds now leave Texas and go back to the more tolerable environs of Utah and Arizona?
The political establishment in Texas will go to great lengths to support the Texas CPS. Texas does not want the flds there. If my reading is correct the flds won't be getting their children back for a long time, if ever. Life for the flds at the YFZ compound will never return to what it was like before the raid. Will the flds now leave Texas and go back to the more tolerable environs of Utah and Arizona?
russ | 6:09 a.m. April 28, 2008
We will see. Odds are that he is right.
aday | 6:21 a.m. April 28, 2008
To be honest this guys comments certainly sound as if he would have been right
there burning the homes of "those mormons" in the early days of this
country too. Sad that we haven't learned anything over the years. How about
going into any slum in the country and taking all the children away because over
50% of all child birth in the country now are to unwed mothers and many are
underage. Very sad they aren't willing to go after problems like that
instead of just people that don't believe the same as them.
Svoboda | 6:44 a.m. April 28, 2008
I've spent most of my life in Texas before moving to Utah. I was surprised
that the FLDS "moved" there, because I know my home state...sooner or
later the FLDS would be caught ignoring state law and authorities there
wouldn't hesitate to act.
I also expect that there will eventually felony convictions from these "spiritual" marriages with underage girls. This is a crushing blow to the FLDS.
I hate to see children separated from their mothers, but in this case, it probably is for the best. What future do the boys have, when two thirds will be kicked out of their religion and families to maintain the 3 to 1 ratio for wives to husbands. What future do young girls have, pregnant at such young ages? What a mess.
I also expect that there will eventually felony convictions from these "spiritual" marriages with underage girls. This is a crushing blow to the FLDS.
I hate to see children separated from their mothers, but in this case, it probably is for the best. What future do the boys have, when two thirds will be kicked out of their religion and families to maintain the 3 to 1 ratio for wives to husbands. What future do young girls have, pregnant at such young ages? What a mess.
Abe | 6:57 a.m. April 28, 2008
So if 25 or so families all decide to live in some communal setting and then
authorities believe they have probable cause to remove the children because of
abuse, wouldn't we be hearing from more than the mothers? Wouldn't
one of the fathers become a spokesperson and have daily press conferences to
state their case? I think that would be the expected response unless the
group's leaders had something to hide...
Blackbane | 7:16 a.m. April 28, 2008
New Hampshire Law:
457:4 Marriageable. � no female below the age of 13 years shall be capable of contracting a valid marriage
457:4 Marriageable. � no female below the age of 13 years shall be capable of contracting a valid marriage
recowger | 7:23 a.m. April 28, 2008
I notice the San Angelo newspaper now longer has articles about the FLDS child
removal.
I guess the NBC DateLine program last night (Sunday) really showed exactly how wrong the locals were about the living conditions of the children.
I was startled by the smashed open door, the empty beds, the excellent teaching conditions, and the entering of the church.
I am ashamed of what has been done in the name of "law and order".
I wonder what happened to the two missing children.
I guess the NBC DateLine program last night (Sunday) really showed exactly how wrong the locals were about the living conditions of the children.
I was startled by the smashed open door, the empty beds, the excellent teaching conditions, and the entering of the church.
I am ashamed of what has been done in the name of "law and order".
I wonder what happened to the two missing children.
JOHNJ | 7:25 a.m. April 28, 2008
What about all other Texans that married at 14? you should take all the children
not just the FLDS kids Hilderbran!!!!! What's happening are all the other
religons protected?
Kevin In Texas | 7:28 a.m. April 28, 2008
It was foolish of FLDS to move to Texas. However it is clear that this is whole
situation is religious persection and bigotry. I am a supporter of prosecuting
those who break the law. Prosecute the men not the women and children! I still
do not agree that these children are in "immediate danger" to justify
what has happened. No charges have been filed and little evidence has been
presented.
Chemist | 7:30 a.m. April 28, 2008
I am so happy to learn that Texas will pursue criminal charges against the male
leaders of the flds. I wish other states would follow the example Texas is
setting.
wrz | 7:32 a.m. April 28, 2008
"This violates Texas values and our lifestyle... We are not going to
tolerate it." Hilderbran
Wow! That's powerful, Hilderbran. Your lifestyle allowed 14 year olds to marry... until FLDS came to town.
Does your lifestyle also include burning down temples... Waco style?
Wow! That's powerful, Hilderbran. Your lifestyle allowed 14 year olds to marry... until FLDS came to town.
Does your lifestyle also include burning down temples... Waco style?
napayshni | 7:34 a.m. April 28, 2008
Perhaps he should of worked harder on cleaning the drugs out of his own county.
To keep the children safe in Kerr county from the drugs there. We should clean
off our own front porches before we clean up someone elses.
Anonymous | 7:38 a.m. April 28, 2008
There is only one right way to live. Texas has identified it (until they change
it again) and is enforcing it at he barrel of a gun. What's the
problem?
I wonder how long it will be before Texas finds out what Jews and many Christians do to their newborn sons . . . .
I wonder how long it will be before Texas finds out what Jews and many Christians do to their newborn sons . . . .
Debbie | 7:39 a.m. April 28, 2008
If he is right, we should all be supporting stricter laws enforcing marriage as
a legal institution between one man and one woman. This should be a federal
mandate.
Further, we should not tolerate ANY sexual exploit of underage girls - "married" or not. Of course if we follow Tesas' example, we should round up whole groups of children who were the product of such young mothers (often unwed and therefore similar to the "spiritual wives" of the FLDS) and separate them from their mothers for their own good. We should put them in foster homes because clearly there was sexual abuse and could be other problems as well, related to poverty, communal living and immoral attitudes.
Surely foster care would be superior over a single, teenage mother, right? This is the message they are sending. Foster care does not have a record for producing great results.
Why isn't Texas worried about the other mothers, sometimes a young as 12? Why does the country allow abortions without questions. No baby; no problem? Oh, yeah, we made that "legal." Is Texas sending "raiders" out to the abortion clinics to round up all these young girls who have clearly been violated?
Further, we should not tolerate ANY sexual exploit of underage girls - "married" or not. Of course if we follow Tesas' example, we should round up whole groups of children who were the product of such young mothers (often unwed and therefore similar to the "spiritual wives" of the FLDS) and separate them from their mothers for their own good. We should put them in foster homes because clearly there was sexual abuse and could be other problems as well, related to poverty, communal living and immoral attitudes.
Surely foster care would be superior over a single, teenage mother, right? This is the message they are sending. Foster care does not have a record for producing great results.
Why isn't Texas worried about the other mothers, sometimes a young as 12? Why does the country allow abortions without questions. No baby; no problem? Oh, yeah, we made that "legal." Is Texas sending "raiders" out to the abortion clinics to round up all these young girls who have clearly been violated?
Hoosier, Re: Abe | 7:53 a.m. April 28, 2008
I fully agree. The fathers and the male leaders are strangely silent or absent.
Your implication that they have something to hide is right on. The only father I
have heard about is the man from Nevada who was kicked out of the flds and had
his children assigned to another man.
be aware of EX POST FACT LAW | 7:53 a.m. April 28, 2008
Be aware of EX POST FACT LAW
TheMadNuker | 7:57 a.m. April 28, 2008
The Texas Spin Machine is working on a new song and
dance. The truth is being revealed, that this RAID
was, and is about religion. The Baptists are flexing
their religous bigotry, thru the power of the state
of Texas. Rome did the same thing 2,000 years ago.
Things truly never change.
The Exalted Harvy Hilderbran has crawled out for his
day in the sun, and is prancing for a greater office
such as the Govenorship.
dance. The truth is being revealed, that this RAID
was, and is about religion. The Baptists are flexing
their religous bigotry, thru the power of the state
of Texas. Rome did the same thing 2,000 years ago.
Things truly never change.
The Exalted Harvy Hilderbran has crawled out for his
day in the sun, and is prancing for a greater office
such as the Govenorship.
G | 8:06 a.m. April 28, 2008
"This violates Texas values and our lifestyle and the way we see
traditional relationships. We are not going to tolerate it."
An interesting choice of words.
The FLDS didn't believe in Texas (Southern Baptist) "values", "lifestyles" and "traditional relationships", and many Texans apparently don't "tolerate" other religious views. So they took advantage of abuse allegations to kick them out of the state.
Did you notice his remarks about the hunting preserve? That makes me suspect they were thinking about coming after them for zoning violation.
An interesting choice of words.
The FLDS didn't believe in Texas (Southern Baptist) "values", "lifestyles" and "traditional relationships", and many Texans apparently don't "tolerate" other religious views. So they took advantage of abuse allegations to kick them out of the state.
Did you notice his remarks about the hunting preserve? That makes me suspect they were thinking about coming after them for zoning violation.
St. George | 8:05 a.m. April 28, 2008
Scary --- NAZI GERMANY
Okay, it's not Short Creek | 8:19 a.m. April 28, 2008
I don't believe the government lost anyone after that raid....
William F. Butler | 8:22 a.m. April 28, 2008
According to the Washington Post, Texas is going to argue that all FLDS children
were at risk because the FLDS culture encouraged girls to marry and bear
children in their teens.
This from the state that ranked, according to Guttmacher Institute, second highest in the country in teenage (15-19 years old)birthrates in 2000. In 2001, the Texas Department of Health announced that 1 out of every 34 teenage girls ages 13-17 gets pregnant and that 13.1% were repeat births. But thank goodness the Texas officials felt the FLDS chilren (all of them down to babies) were in imminent danger because of their belief in marrying and having children young -- they jumped right in there, took the children and are now placing some of the females into foster homes for pregnant teens. I guess from these statistics there should be plenty of teen preganncy homes available and one can only imagine the great atmosphere and potential influence on these girls who had come from loving families and homes.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I smell hypocrisy wafting up from Texas and it doesn't smell very good.
This from the state that ranked, according to Guttmacher Institute, second highest in the country in teenage (15-19 years old)birthrates in 2000. In 2001, the Texas Department of Health announced that 1 out of every 34 teenage girls ages 13-17 gets pregnant and that 13.1% were repeat births. But thank goodness the Texas officials felt the FLDS chilren (all of them down to babies) were in imminent danger because of their belief in marrying and having children young -- they jumped right in there, took the children and are now placing some of the females into foster homes for pregnant teens. I guess from these statistics there should be plenty of teen preganncy homes available and one can only imagine the great atmosphere and potential influence on these girls who had come from loving families and homes.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I smell hypocrisy wafting up from Texas and it doesn't smell very good.
Howdy There | 8:24 a.m. April 28, 2008
Why were the children taken from the monagomous families at the ranch?
Ace Ventura | 8:25 a.m. April 28, 2008
Hmmm...a lot of polygamy apologists posting today (or is it just one or two
posting again and again under different names??). Yes there's human tragedy
here of children being separated from their mothers. Aside from those who think
the whole FLDS scenario is OK, is there any better way to prevent underage girls
from being married off to much older men (or forcibly married to a cousin or
someone else)? The boys who are booted from the nest when the hormones start
kicking in so they don't spoil the "perfect" scenario for the
duffers are no less the victims. Don't many of them retain their
brainwashed outlook on life and find a naive young girl with whom to start their
own little clan? My guess is that's the source for all these mini-enclaves
we find embedded in neighborhoods throughout the west.
There's no painless way to remove children from an abusive situation. You just have to do it (and do it NOW) hoping and praying you weren't too late to rehabilitate the children and give them hope of a somewhat normal, self-directed, happy life.
RE the article--only if you've lived in Texas can you understand: "Don't Mess with Texas!!!"
There's no painless way to remove children from an abusive situation. You just have to do it (and do it NOW) hoping and praying you weren't too late to rehabilitate the children and give them hope of a somewhat normal, self-directed, happy life.
RE the article--only if you've lived in Texas can you understand: "Don't Mess with Texas!!!"
results | 8:31 a.m. April 28, 2008
This is my estimate of the results:
Texas: 1 conviction.
FLDS: $1,000,000,000.00
Texas: 1 conviction.
FLDS: $1,000,000,000.00
To WRZ | 8:33 a.m. April 28, 2008
The Waco incident was an FBI operation.
LeeB | 8:34 a.m. April 28, 2008
How would you feel if it was your child that was kidnapped, forced into such an
environment and molested (under the guise of religious freedom). Yet that is
exactly what has happened to many Men (and more than a few women) who appose or
disagree with the FLDS Leadership.
Their children are "removed" from that individual and "given" to another (susposably better) individual or family. It is appaling the level of deception and manipulation the leaders of the FLDS and their "faithful" followers go to to distort the truth.
Let Texas do their very dificult job and we will eventually see what the truth really is.
Their children are "removed" from that individual and "given" to another (susposably better) individual or family. It is appaling the level of deception and manipulation the leaders of the FLDS and their "faithful" followers go to to distort the truth.
Let Texas do their very dificult job and we will eventually see what the truth really is.
no fuzzy thinking here | 8:34 a.m. April 28, 2008
It is true that in other states, and especially in the South,the ambivalence
toward polygamy that apparently exists among Utah civil authorities is
absent.
It is a mistake to attribute that to anti-Mormon sentiment.
Many LDS where I live feel nothing but revulsion for FLDS practices. I am aware of nothing in LDS teachings that would lead members to condone in the least degree FLDS practices, quite the opposite.
As a "mission field" LDS I find many of the attitudes posted on these boards supportive of YTF puzzling and disturbing.
One also really wonders what made FLDS think Texas would be a supportive place. Quite a miscalculation, but a blessing for the children.
It is a mistake to attribute that to anti-Mormon sentiment.
Many LDS where I live feel nothing but revulsion for FLDS practices. I am aware of nothing in LDS teachings that would lead members to condone in the least degree FLDS practices, quite the opposite.
As a "mission field" LDS I find many of the attitudes posted on these boards supportive of YTF puzzling and disturbing.
One also really wonders what made FLDS think Texas would be a supportive place. Quite a miscalculation, but a blessing for the children.
G | 8:40 a.m. April 28, 2008
"
RE the article--only if you've lived in Texas can you understand: "Don't Mess with Texas!!!""
I agree "don't mess with Texas". Give them back to Mexico.
RE the article--only if you've lived in Texas can you understand: "Don't Mess with Texas!!!""
I agree "don't mess with Texas". Give them back to Mexico.
Re: Chemist | 8:45 a.m. April 28, 2008
What are you talking about? What about the convictions of Warren Jeffs, Rodney
Holm, Terrill C. Johnson, David Ortell Kingston, Jeremy Kingston, Tom Green,
Kelly Fischer, Donald Barlow, Orson William Black, David Bateman, Dale Barlow,
etc. in Utah and Arizona. Why do you think the FLDS started building compounds
in Texas, Colorado and South Dakota?
Unfortunately, the probable cause for the search warrant of the El Dorado compound looks weak. While this didn't stop CPS from their ludicrous overreaction, it lowers the chance that Texas will get any convictions out of this. And anyway, don't you expect that the men who broke the law are long gone now? Texas was too busy herding mothers and children to pay attention.
Unfortunately, the probable cause for the search warrant of the El Dorado compound looks weak. While this didn't stop CPS from their ludicrous overreaction, it lowers the chance that Texas will get any convictions out of this. And anyway, don't you expect that the men who broke the law are long gone now? Texas was too busy herding mothers and children to pay attention.
Re: no fuzzy thinking here | 8:54 a.m. April 28, 2008
No apologies for the FLDS here. But does Texas have a right to deny due process
to anyone? Does Texas have a right to disregard well established child custody
law that uses the "imminent harm" test for taking and keeping children
away from parents? If you think the ends justify the means, then you are not
supporting the constitutional law of the land.
Texas (and all other states) should take reasonable action to protect children, but they must scrupulously follow the law, respecting the rights even of the suspected criminal. Anything less than this leads to more Missouris and Nauvoos.
Texas (and all other states) should take reasonable action to protect children, but they must scrupulously follow the law, respecting the rights even of the suspected criminal. Anything less than this leads to more Missouris and Nauvoos.
Matt in Tucson | 8:59 a.m. April 28, 2008
He says they are "tough on crime." Does that include hate crimes
committed against the FLDS?
dingo | 9:10 a.m. April 28, 2008
there is NO constitutional protection to violate the laws and call it freedom of
religion. the supreme court has ruled time and again that religious freedoms
must be kept within the bounds of the law. not to long ago in this country
lynching was a "religious" expression, witch burning was a
"religious" cleansing. human and animal sacrifice in the name of
religion is also not legal. i fail to see how rape, incest, abuse, and
imprisonment are protect "religious" behaviors.
you dont see the FLDS men because standard operating procedure is run out the crying women and children and play up the emotions of everyone. we tend to forget that these "mothers" sold thier daughters into this. they are willing participants in the lifestyle of rape, incest, abuse, and imprisonment. it doesnt matter rto the FLDS male leadership what you do as long as all you see is the women crying tears and wailing with hurt and injustice. you are being manipulated and have fallen victim to a well orginized and rehearsed propaganda machine.
maybe texas did over react but the law will work all of that out. lets not read protections into the constitution that are not there.
you dont see the FLDS men because standard operating procedure is run out the crying women and children and play up the emotions of everyone. we tend to forget that these "mothers" sold thier daughters into this. they are willing participants in the lifestyle of rape, incest, abuse, and imprisonment. it doesnt matter rto the FLDS male leadership what you do as long as all you see is the women crying tears and wailing with hurt and injustice. you are being manipulated and have fallen victim to a well orginized and rehearsed propaganda machine.
maybe texas did over react but the law will work all of that out. lets not read protections into the constitution that are not there.
CougarKeith | 9:19 a.m. April 28, 2008
Yeah that is right, punish the men by taking the children away from their
mothers, makes perfectly good sense to me! That's almost like fining me for
a speeding ticket by taking away my wife's drivers license and her car? In
future generations this will be seen as a "historical blunder" and
totally mishandled. If Texas is so tough on crime does this also include the
breaking of constitutional rights to Freedom of Worship and Religious Freedom
being violated? I am not supporting "Polygamy" at all, but to shred
every family in the Ranch is surely a violation of Religious Freedoms to those
people.
insanangelo | 9:23 a.m. April 28, 2008
at least we protect our children in texas. the CPS action is a civil action, it
has no bearing one way or another on the criminal action. they are different
burdens of proof. so even if the criminal case fizzles, the CPS case will go on,
parental rights can still be terminated or individual families can be reunited.
none of this would happen if children were not being groomed to be raped, groomed to be breeders and if babies were not being waterboarded in an effort to teach them to keep sweet.
none of this would happen if children were not being groomed to be raped, groomed to be breeders and if babies were not being waterboarded in an effort to teach them to keep sweet.
kal | 9:26 a.m. April 28, 2008
In this whole situation it was good to finally hear the laws stated and
listed.
Yes, it is totally sad from many sides.
I applaud Texas for following its laws.
The FLDS have broken laws from the beginning by not
telling the truth about why they purchased the land.
How can anyone think that you can break the law. But then the FLDS think they are exceptions to the rules. Not.
Yes, it is totally sad from many sides.
I applaud Texas for following its laws.
The FLDS have broken laws from the beginning by not
telling the truth about why they purchased the land.
How can anyone think that you can break the law. But then the FLDS think they are exceptions to the rules. Not.
Re: Cougar | 9:36 a.m. April 28, 2008
This is the way CPS works every day. They play by different rules than criminal
courts do. That is why it can become dangerous. They have saved many children
but have harmed many more. They do not need evidence, proof, or facts...just a
"feeling" by women who may not have children themselves and in most
cases and have been taught that all parents do not know how to parent and are
incompetent. Google CPS corruption--even in YouTube.. I cried all night long.
CPS has a job but they are leaving a wide field of destruction in their
paths...and this involves LIVES. I even found recordings of people placing
orders for neighborhood children to adopt and CPS saying they would get them for
them. They have higher price tags for blond hair white children=more money for
the state. I am not a conspiracy theorist but when CPS does not do what their
own PhD psychiatrist suggests and would have taken the newborns (which there is
rumor that 6 have been taken since the raid to mothers who have birthed them
since then) and infants under 12 months had it not been a divine hand of God on
Walthers--makes you wonder.
Chemist | 9:42 a.m. April 28, 2008
The flds lived in Utah and Arizona for a long time before the authorities
prosecuted them and got some convictions. They were in Texas for only a few
years before Texas reacted with a raid and DNA testing of everyone. In addition
to their unsavory lifestyle the flds are also racist. Reading or hearing Warren
Jeffs' views on blacks is chilling. He (the flds) consider blacks to be
inferior to whites and to be a cursed race. How anyone can support them is
beyond me.
got it BACKWARDS | 9:43 a.m. April 28, 2008
The abuse of religion here is BY the FLDS, not against it. They are engaged in
pervasive criminal abusive behavior and seek to excuse it and avoid answering to
the law by calling it religion.
Reasonable people see that legal authorities in Texas are struggling in the face of a difficult situation to protect the children and enforce the law. Reasonable people are sickened by the scale and circumstances of the abuse at YFZ and applaud efforts to eliminate it.
Comparisons to Missouri or Nauvoo are perverse. Those were illegal mob actions against innocent people.
Reasonable people see that legal authorities in Texas are struggling in the face of a difficult situation to protect the children and enforce the law. Reasonable people are sickened by the scale and circumstances of the abuse at YFZ and applaud efforts to eliminate it.
Comparisons to Missouri or Nauvoo are perverse. Those were illegal mob actions against innocent people.
anon | 9:44 a.m. April 28, 2008
The FLDS have been thumbing their noses at the laws of the United States for a
hundred years. I'm glad to see someone is taking steps to stop this
tradition. I just hope it sticks.
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228 - TCU showdown has big implications183
- Lobo suspended182
- Cougars crush hapless Cowboys154
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- TCU 4th in AP poll; U. 16th, Y. 22nd118
- Thousands protest health bill114
- RSL rallies to advance103
- No 'backlash' for pioneers, gays analogy97
- Utes pound winless Lobos89
Meghan McCain, the daughter of former presidential candidate John...
Why do so many people live so close to refineries in Utah and elsewhere?
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Texas CPS shouted PEDOPHILE in the theater and needs to be held accountable.
Americans have civil liberties that the state of Texas has decided don't really count. Remember Tulia? We see the exact same forces of the state engaged in the most outrageous behavior. And the apologist for the state keep saying the end justifies the means. The state of Texas is clearly engaged in un-American and illegal aggression against its citizens.
Return those children to their homes now.