Deseret News | 2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for

Reader comments
2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for

159 comments | Read story

Dr. Sears | 4:37 p.m. April 27, 2008

I hope Barbara Walthers reads Dr. Sears. I just read about that toddlers start having irrevocable damage (and babies) if in the constant care (or switching care) of others besides their own mothers.. It went on to talk about the LASTING effects of sudden weaning in this age of a child--no wonder CPS told the foster centers they are "starting to act out after being separated from their mothers".. (report from Ark Assessment memo from CPS). This is in the best interest of the child? Surely CPS monitoring would have been MUCH better or a safety plan away from the men (who agreed to it!). I am getting more heartbroken. I think CPS will wait until the mother's milk is dry and the time span in which a toddler starts detaching from mom (and starts having major problems=psycho drugs anyone???) before allowing visitation. Then they will take her rights away b/c there is no more bond.. Sick sick sick...just as sick as the physical perverts..this is emotional and psychological rape..

Re: Zoar | 4:39 p.m. April 27, 2008

I am a nurse... you don't feel a stomach for urinary tract infections. You do a urine dip stick..positive leukocytes? postive blood? then there is an infection. They wanted to feel a fundus=pregancy.. That is what they were trying to do...

Leroy G. | 4:39 p.m. April 27, 2008

Yes FLDS has limited medical facilities at the Ranch.
If one of the children is now in intensive care, it could be coincidence. But it is also true that more than 2 weeks ago every child was given a medical examination. Kids get sick. Emotional Trauma can also bring on illness. We do not know anything yet. We do not know that any child has been hospitalized. We do not even know if the phone call was from a person at the shelter. For all we know it could be from someone who just wants to stir the pot.

Comments continue below

Watching | 4:43 p.m. April 27, 2008

Maybe those two missing brothers (one a 16 month old baby) that to some think "two lost to save 400 isn't bad" would be more important to you if they belonged to some other religion that is more accepted in Texas? It's like you are saying these are just FLDS kids, so what is a few more or less.

Shame on Texas.

deb | 4:51 p.m. April 27, 2008

Does anyone here READ before posting against the FLDS? THe LAWYERS are the ones who were told they did not know where the 2 boys were! The AD LITEM wasn't given information on the child in the hospital! CPS is legally obligated to get information to the LAWYERS AND AD LITEMS for the children. And once the children were in the CPS legal custody, it doesn't matter what the parents said their names were, the CPS has them and they are responsible for their own records and headcount. And for anyone who thinks it's ok that 2 children are missing, I hope yours go missing so you can learn to FEEL because you are COLD and HEARTLESS human beings.My child once went into a neighbors home with a friend to watch a tv show and I could'nt find him, I still to this day remember the HORROR I felt until we found him, as has any other MOTHER. EVERY CHILD is of extreme value and you can't put a price on life. Most foster care moms have that problem- children in their care is a little more money-cold and heartless.They NEED their MOTHERS who love them!!!

To those looking for the facts: | 5:03 p.m. April 27, 2008

Wait for the court hearings. Texas can't show all of the facts in the media, they will present them in the courtroom. Until then, the media, the FLDS, and everyone else's comments are just SPECULATION.

Read? | 5:10 p.m. April 27, 2008

No, deb. None of us knows how to read.

Better to be cold and heartless, than agree with you and return those kids to the complicit FLDS mothers who refuse to protect girls against child rapists and allow young boys to be groomed as predators, or worse abandoned as excess garbage along side the road.

Yeah....They need their mothers who love them!

Cookie there/their | 5:10 p.m. April 27, 2008

The boys will be identified and located.
The older boy probably told CPS different names
at different times for himself and his little
'brother' or perhaps 'cousin.' Were children
already in different places such as the school,
garden, work areas, other than with their own
mothers when CPS stepped in? That could account
for "normal" mixups.
In the beginning of this
terrible scourge, the "Eldorado Success" published legal notifications of all known children; these children bore only three to four last names. Two surnames were very prominent in the FLDS church. Since the leader is in jail, wouldn't that raise fear in the adults to claim certain names?
HIPPA laws require complete confidentiality.
In some cases I believe HIPPA goes too far,
even for doctors, nurses, and other professionals but it was designed to protect patients and individuals needing medical care.
Please check usage of 'their' signifying possession,
such as "their children" AND 'there' pointing out
direction, such as "there is...there are...over
there...there is trouble when you live in the USA,
individuals are guaranteed the right to a free education, and their spelling can be perfect using
a computer!
I just e-mailed Gov. Perry questioning foster care
sexual abuse.

Cultural Awareness | 5:10 p.m. April 27, 2008

Wow! CPS has got it ALL wrong when it comes to the children's beliefs.. Must have got it the same place as "don't follow my advice CPS" Psych. Perry--from the media. Google fldsview and blogspot . It makes me very very upset that they are suprised the children are starting to act out and they have lied about some of their beliefs to make FLDS look worse than it already appears to be--but to the detriment of the children. Sick.

to all Texas Parents | 5:13 p.m. April 27, 2008

"Texas law has a very low burden for removal of children from a parent's home" said Jessica Dixon, director of the child advocacy center at Southern Methodist University Law School in Dallas." She went on to say "I've never heard of anything like this." Source, PR-inside.com

The bottom line is you better protect your own children by demanding that your Legislature re-write the laws that govern CPS. It sure looks like your lawmakers are a bunch of far left liberals who belive in the government having unrestricted power to violate the privacy of your home and make up the rules as they go.

Texas Immigration Plan | 5:14 p.m. April 27, 2008

Texas Immigration Plan: Make it less Free here, and more desirable in Mexico.

and a very good plan Texas, rest of you states need to take example from this

Brooke | 5:15 p.m. April 27, 2008

CPS in Texas can't handle all these children. The JUDGE needs to be recalled or put in jail. This is pure and simple religious bigotry and hatred against the FLDS. Their evidence is tainted. There is no SARAH. But wait maybe given enough time to teach the children. I remember the MCMARTIN SCHOOL Case. It turned out CPS made the children lie under the promise they would get their parents back!!!

juaney | 5:24 p.m. April 27, 2008

I'm from San Angelo Tx.I can tell you that alot of people has been effected and we are not family but never the less we have one.CPS,Courts,DPS,Medical services,City of San Angelo{officers},Churches,Professionals etc. has done/worked/ with this situation with the best of their knowledgh to keep the women and children very,very saved/protected until the end,where the courts heard alot of testimonies/days and then some/DNA.The City of SA provided an organ, because they like to sing and worship,wool/needles/keybord instruments,some churches donated their time to make homemade quilts,and other things they are acustom to using,so they be as comfortable as possible waiting...By the way, I know of several parents here in san Angelo that the courts has taken there kids away because they had evidence of sexual/physical molesting/sexual abuse.Any Church,any one,that is mistreating Children are in real trouble!Kids depend on Adults to take care of them.Adults need to speak up if they see an injustice being done.Not just the FLDSC.I do pray/2 boys .I hope they escape.{smart???}and are save somewhere,like with their, a smart Father.-Who knows?.

CEtheir from ON, Canada | 5:28 p.m. April 27, 2008

In Texas CPS has apprehended without a warrant over 400 children, well do the math here ï¿½ this is equal to many millions of $$$$$ in Federal funding for the entire mafia group in the Child Protection System. Each child will bring to this corrupt system $300-$700/day. Make no mistake for the real motives of this raid! To the FLDS mother a fair advice: record all conversations with CPS: tape recorders, cell phones! CPS will fight for their dollars; you are just a number in their game.

CEthier | 5:29 p.m. April 27, 2008

This is one of the biggest scam that child protection system had pulled so far in North America. I am frankly surprised why the CPS does not scoop up the children in the Christian community, because the bible does not ï¿½teachï¿½ them the ï¿½bestï¿½ according to CPS criteria of child emotional abuse. With the same logic CPS claims that FLDS children will be raised in 10-15 years from now as potential child molesters, truth is that in any Christian family 10-15 year from now could be raise a poetical spanker. Spanking named illegal by CPS, while the bible teaches: ï¿½Spare the rod, spoil the childï¿½. Tell me why the poetical spankers are not in the group homes? Remember the spanking case in Ontario lasted 20 months.

CEthier | 5:31 p.m. April 27, 2008

They have no lawyers, no legal representation ... they have legal aid ... this is close to nothing , thats why their children were taken away

reply to deb | 5:34 p.m. April 27, 2008

their "mothers who love them" so much they stand by and let their teenage daughters be brainwashed into marrying old men, their sons forcibly removed from the compound, and who pretend their own children aren't theirs to inhibit the investigation?

I'd have more respect for these people if they stopped misleading and attempting to divert the course of justice. Their answers to Larry King were obviously untrue, and worked out in advance.

Anyone who thinks the FLDS are whiter than white, needs to take a reality check, and fast.You're being manipulated by them, and it really isn't that hard to spot.

hey deb | 5:35 p.m. April 27, 2008

Reread the story! Nobody is actually missing. All are accounted. The "unaccounted" in the story only refers to the FLDS practice of reporting multiple names, ages, and parentage to a child. Now with a laundry list of names and dates for a single child, they expect to immediately be told where that child is at any point in time. The name of the child would be what? It would depend on which story was told for which date. It could be: Joseph, David, Brigham, Nephi, or Alma. Which direction is the wind blowing?

Had all mothers been truthful, the children would not have been removed. They were deceptive and lied, so that there was no longer ANY reason to trust them and extreme actions were taken. Had family groups remained consistent, none of this would have happened.

john b | 5:38 p.m. April 27, 2008

tarheal i cant beleive you ment what you said a child is always bettwr off with his mother and father does that meen that if they are beating them san telling them they are no good it is allright

cps has given each child a number and a name but if the child said his name was paul jones and the mother is loking for ralph brown cps will not find him in there records

Leslie | 5:41 p.m. April 27, 2008

Perhaps these mothers who are missing children should be as concerned when their sons become the discards of their society via The Lost Boys, or when their daughters are forced or talked into becoming illegal wives of the sexual perverts/predators that they call "men" of the FLDS. Step up to the plate, ladies, and truly protect your children from the dangers within.

Sorry but... | 5:43 p.m. April 27, 2008

There can not be enough really good foster parents for all of these children. I don't agree with FLDS, and I do think someone needed to intervene for the sake of the young girls being married. But the babies and young children did not need to be taken from their mothers. I have seen these people and they love and care for their little ones.

They are misguided by false leaders and need education. But the babies need their moms.

USLDS | 5:46 p.m. April 27, 2008

We should investigate every teenage pregnancy and take all these girls into state custody... that would only be fair, don't you think.

HelloPeople | 6:02 p.m. April 27, 2008

Why is it so hard to figure out what needs to be done!
Take in to custody all of the rapers and mollesters, an leave the victims(children) alone!!! Why not remove 467 Men from the ranch?

last time i checked if someone in America gets sexually abused the person who abused them gets taken into custody. NOT THE PERSON RAPED!!!

ONLY IN TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chicago | 6:21 p.m. April 27, 2008

I suppose my only point is that if the sheriff and CPS and the court can bent and distort facts and legal procedure (as if end justifies the means), then how can anyone consider the authorities a reliable source of the truth any more than the FLDS people? There is probably spin on both sides, but the authorities especially should expected to play by the rules, rather than making things up as they go along.

It is hard to say who is really truthful on both sides of this issue. But in any case, it is for me an impossible stretch of the imagination to think that babies and toddlers are better off in the hands of strangers that just get paid to house "wards of the state" than they would be in the care of their own mothers. Again, there has been no evidence of babies/toddlers (or any other kids) being malnourished, neglected, or whipped/beaten. If there had been, we certainly would have heard about it. By all accounts, whatever their faults, FLDS mothers are very loving and caring about their kids.

Chicago | 6:24 p.m. April 27, 2008

While polygamy is not my thing, I found it interesting to read, that a Canadian Court has recently ruled laws against polygamy unconstitutional. So apparently Canada, is a bit more tolerant than the USA on this issue.

I saw one comment above where a woman said she was thankful for being taken out of an abusive home as a child. She probably was lucky. But there are plenty of documented horror stories about what can happen in foster care (e.g. being hung by feet from door frames, crushed to death under pile of dry wall, raped, beaten to death ... and on and on) ... Sure there are lots of good foster homes ... but there are some very bad ones as well... and to CPS these kids are just numbers that they pay someone else to take care of.

Chicago | 6:25 p.m. April 27, 2008

What kind of CPS incompetence results in a little 2 year-old girl ending up in hospital ICU? I would bet that little girl had a mom with her (taking care of her) in the temporary shelter until CPS told those moms with babies over 12mo to leave.

What kind of incompetence results in CPS having to admit they do not know the wear abouts of an 11 year-old boy and his 16 month-old little brother?

As for the comment: "... 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay" ... and those that agree ... tell it to the Lord when you meet on Judgment Day ... the devil probably already has your soul.

Emily Postponed | 6:56 p.m. April 27, 2008

I feel badly about the mothers and their small children. BUT the is in for more problems with polygomy - the Muslims can have three wives according to their religion. Mosques in Michigan have families with plural wives - what is the Government going to do with them? Are they different?

Texas has done a poor job in the past with "splinter groups" aka Waco etc.

Sad sad sad

Urinary test | 7:05 p.m. April 27, 2008

To Zoar, a urinary test is hardly an invasive procedure. I went in for my pap smear test last week... that's invasive. These FLDS are so annying trying to gain sympathy. Tell the truth, then we might care.

Old geezer in vegas | 7:56 p.m. April 27, 2008

OK Letï¿½s do a theoretical test here.

FLDS
600+ people
400+ children
Parents on Drugs or alcohol. 0
Girls that have had sex before turning 18. Unknown.
Kids education. Better than the average for Texas
Kids on Drugs or alcohol. 0
Kids with STDs. 0
Kids in street gangs. 0
Kids behavior. Overly polite.

Any low income large apartment complex of about the same size in any metropolitan area.
Parents on Drugs or alcohol. Too Many!!!
Girls that have had sex before turning 18. Most!!!
Kids education. Spotty at best.
Kids on Drugs or alcohol. Many!!
Kids with STDs. More than one might imagine according to studies.
Kids in street gangs. Many!!
Kids behavior. Reprimand them and you might get shot!!

Lady Of Liberty | 8:59 p.m. April 27, 2008

Give me your tired,your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.The wretched refuse of your teaming shores.
Send these, the homeless, helpless, tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Why not remember who we are....
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

a hope for the future | 9:11 p.m. April 27, 2008

My hope for the future is that all these children, as they become adults, band together and hunt down every government perpetrator that did this to them.

All lies | 9:19 p.m. April 27, 2008

The FLDS polygamist are sure trying hard to twist these posts around for their own benefit. Too bad know one wants to listen to a bunch of lies and perversions. I'm certain the boys are ok. So FLDS, PLEASE quit all the worthless mouthing off! You guys brought all this on to yourselves with your sinful life styles. You are the ones to blame for what is happening to your children.

Stupid is as stupid does | 9:53 p.m. April 27, 2008

Lady Of LIBERTY

Live the American laws! Break them and go to jail or get out! This is not about illegals...duh! Polygamist are Americans, and they are not poor. They are liars, thieves and child abusers and molesters... Get it? They steal from the American government to build a empire.

earthchild | 9:55 p.m. April 27, 2008

They can return all the children now. Because all the men who fathered children with women under 16 or 14 depending on the law time frame headed for the hills as soon as dna was mentioned. Texas has totally blown it. Now there will be noway to prosicute the men that every one seems to want hung.

Girl In ICU Reported | 10:05 p.m. April 27, 2008

Guys, I found someone who is "in the know" about this girl who posted under the news article I believe with US News. Apparently, according to her, this baby girl is in ICU b/c she has a rare situation that has been historically documented. This girl was taken from her mother and was still being breastfed. She is not tolerating the separation and is not eating and is now in ICU (which means she is fighting death). This is horrible. I challenge any of you to say this is in the best interest of this baby girl and that she would have been in more danger under CPS superivsion WITH her mother. Go ahead. Once this fact is public (probably not b/c of HIPPA) people will be outraged. I am. As far as the rape allegations that came from Rozita. CPS almost had me on that. I will wait until I hear one of those girls claim rape. Consentual statutory rape--maybe but rape in itself will have to be made known on the stand first. BTW, these children are reported to have lost a lot of healthy weight and acting out since the separation--sounds like CPS abuse to me.

CPS Credibility | 10:10 p.m. April 27, 2008

CPS lost ALL credibility about the "best interest of the child" when they IGNORED their OWN state witness that for the health of the children, all children under age 5 were to be returned ASAP to the mothers under a safety net. Any children returned to the mothers are not left alone to be raped in the future. CPS supervises the family and puts them in a safety net plan for their future. Since they ignored what Perry stated was best, I now cannot believe CPS really has all the best interest of the child at hand. They are not PhD certified like Perry to go over his head and make another decision contrary. Now these children are going to suffer and be traumatized b/c CPS did not take its own advice..so much for credibilty and best interests speel.

JoAnn | 10:31 p.m. April 27, 2008

How sad that these children,each and every one of them have been taken from their mothers. No matter the religion children should not be taken from their mothers. It is the men in the FLDS church that are committing the crimes. The women are being submissive as is taught in most religions. How sad that the majority of these children are well taken care of and loved. Try taking the children away from the illegal aliens we have living in this country and deporting them back to Mexico and watch what happens. The United States Government would back down immediately. What Texas has done to the children of the FLDS church is just wrong.

usachild | 10:47 p.m. April 27, 2008

CPS saved my life, so before you go CPS bashing get your facts straight.. These Children were held hostage behind a locked gate, brainwashed and did not know what life in the real world is like, all for the sake of religion!

Its better they get out now and see what the real world is like and when they get older they will know what its like to get a job and fuction with civilization and lead normal lives.

This is the "Best interest of the child" (Thanks CPS)

whereabouts | 11:07 p.m. April 27, 2008

When the state takes a child into custody, they don't tell the parents where the child is. This lessens, I'm sure, the chances that parents can grab their kids and flee.

Yet another ploy by FLDS to smear CPS, and it is backfiring.

Matthew | 11:16 p.m. April 27, 2008

I child in the care of its parents is not a hostage.

Catch a clue all of you that think CPS did the right thing. They've shown no proof, they have no specific allegations for most of the families affected. Just because someone chooses to live a different lifestyle than you isn't grounds for hearding them all into a concentration camp at gun point.

That is exactly what Texas did. The Texas Authorities are a bunch of NAZIS! What they have done merits all possible conotations of that label.

The European Union ought to invade based on the precident Texas so-and-so in the White House set.

No wonder the Founding Fathers included the 4th Amendment. Tyranny is rising in America

Leroy G. | 11:22 p.m. April 27, 2008

On April 25 when the children were separated from the babies over 12 months, the Colliseum was locked down and --
"I'm going to the courthouse," said attorney Emmet Fleming, who is representing a little girl who he said has medical needs. "I doubt that I'll even be able to see (the judge), but I'm going to try."
As I understand there was supposed to be a special arrangement for this child and if it turns out that this is the child in icu and something happens to her because her special needs were not met.... Well lets wait and see if it is.

Skeptic | 11:30 p.m. April 27, 2008

Edangered species: HOW are you certain the boys are okay? It completely stumps me that you somehow just know this.

Too bad about the total disregard for human rights and the constitution.

of course they will | 11:56 p.m. April 27, 2008

"When this is all over and the lawsuits are all done, the FLDS church is going to own the state of Texas."

Yes, that is very likely; about as likely as finding those men 'dressed like Quakers' that live on the moon.

Red Texan | 11:56 p.m. April 27, 2008

The FLDS apologists on this thread make me sick. CPS explained why they couldn't just remove the men and leave the mothers and children at the ranch: no way to secure it. No way these law-breaking mothers, with their history of lying and failing to protect their children in the past could be trusted to make a U-turn overnight and reform their ways. No way the state, CPS or any government bureau wanted to take on a case of this magnitude. No one even knew there were this many kids/people on the ranch--something else the FLDS lied about.

My heart aches for the trauma the children are suffering, but they have hope for the future. I only wish it weren't too late for the zombied-out, brainwashed women, but it looks like it is.

Texans tolerate all kinds of different beliefs and led the country in homeschooling, but we draw the line at raping and abandoning children. Call us names if you want, but we're proud of it.

Willy Steele | 12:33 a.m. April 28, 2008

Who is abusing whom? You say the FLDS are abusing their children? Where is the proof? None produced so far even in court! All speculation and innuendo. You say CPS is protecting the children? Where is the proof? All yanked from their mothers arms and scattered to the Texas winds over false testimony, most in foster homes, Two missing, several have gone to hospitals, families uprooted, many in likely need of life time counseling and all had their constitutional rights abused. Does CPS or foster care providers do a better job of raising children than their own mothers? Smells like a good old Texas moral lynch mob at work! Now I ask you Christian gossipers and hatemonger posting here, where is your proof of abuse! Shame on you! Repent and support the FLDS mothers and their children or resign from Christianity.

SJ Bobkins | 5:01 a.m. April 28, 2008

if the boys are indeed lost, isn't this solving a problem the FLDS will have 10 years from now?

Steve | 5:15 a.m. April 28, 2008

I stumbled across this thread while following a link from a search engine and was kind of surprised at the number of people vehemently supporting the FLDS and condemning the Texas authorities until I realized what I was reading - reader responses to The Deseret News. Well, duh, silly me. It should have been expected. Just like expecting that most of the readers of Al Jazeera would support and defend Al Qaida.

There are way too many stories by former FLDS members about what goes on there for you people to seriously believe those children weren't being abused in that cult. Either you're knowingly covering for child abusers or you're too lazy to check into it more fully.

Either way, there's a lesson to be learned from this... if you're going to start a cult compound, don't do it in Texas. (You'd think people would have learned that after Waco!!!)

Anonymous | 6:28 a.m. April 28, 2008

Willy Steele are you crazy! In fact most of you guys are crazy on here.

Bobbi inME | 8:31 a.m. April 28, 2008

I think that they should have made all the men leave instead of removing all the children from there mothers. The men are the ones that are the danger to the girs not the mothers. They should return the chidren to the mothers the children have to be scared to death. They dont know the world we live in. So its only fair that the men should have to leave not the children from the only thing that they have known. The children and mothers are the one's being punished for what the men did.That way all the children would be acounted for. It's easier to keep track of the men then it would be to try to put 437 children in to foster care.

Old Geezer in Vegas | 10:49 a.m. April 28, 2008

After watching the videos on Dateline, it really scares me. When authorities went into the one coupleï¿½s home, the man asked to see their paperwork authorizing the search of their house and taking of their children and was told that they ï¿½didnï¿½t have a copy of the order. If he wanted to see it, it was at their office.ï¿½

Sort of reminds me of the classic line from the movies, ï¿½Badges? We donï¿½t need any stinking badges!!ï¿½ Only this time it was, ï¿½Paperwork? We donï¿½t need any stinking paperwork!!ï¿½ In other words they didnï¿½t have to justify the search or taking of the children to him, they were just doing it because ï¿½they were the lawï¿½.

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.