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2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for
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to harsh thoughts | 10:57 a.m. April 27, 2008
These women and children were taken into custody without the chance to speak to
an attorney. Not even a search warrant for every house, just the compound. It is
like CPS coming into your town and taking all children without you being able to
speak to a lawyer. I too wouldn't say much until I get to speak with a
lawyer. The more you say the more they will use this info against you. And maybe
they did give the right names but CPS couldn't distinguish between all the
same dressed, same hair style women and children. We don't know the
complete story but I like to support families and a loving environment for the
children, not foster care. There are very few good foster homes, with most it
is easy to spot who is not their child by how this child is treated. I have
worked with foster parents, seen it first hand every day! This is a war against
a peculiar religion, hidden behind the "care of the children."
Let's give Texas to Castro, that's how he runs his country.
interesting | 11:00 a.m. April 27, 2008
Interesting that a FLDS commentor accuses "Anybody supporting this..."
of not being a good parent. It seems that they believe they are good parents and
the only good parents.
They often bring up the Spears girls as a reason not to remove their children. They make it sound as if the rest of the world lives in immorality.
They often bring up the Spears girls as a reason not to remove their children. They make it sound as if the rest of the world lives in immorality.
Comments continue below
RE: Floyd | 10:04 a.m | 11:00 a.m. April 27, 2008
BUSTED!
I READ the article in the Washington Post this morning, and you obviously need to go back and re-read it. The Post NEVER said that there was no actual abuse of any child, as you boldly claim! It said that the state will argue that ALL the children are at risk because of the pervasive culture of abuse among early teen girls.
From the Post:
�The state will argue that the sect's children are at risk at the compound, but not because EVERY ONE of them has been physically or sexually abused.
Instead, they will say that the culture of the church, which encouraged girls to marry and bear children in their early teens, was a danger to any child immersed in it.�
Nice try, though Floyd. You need to refrain from spreading lies and disinformation on this board.
I READ the article in the Washington Post this morning, and you obviously need to go back and re-read it. The Post NEVER said that there was no actual abuse of any child, as you boldly claim! It said that the state will argue that ALL the children are at risk because of the pervasive culture of abuse among early teen girls.
From the Post:
�The state will argue that the sect's children are at risk at the compound, but not because EVERY ONE of them has been physically or sexually abused.
Instead, they will say that the culture of the church, which encouraged girls to marry and bear children in their early teens, was a danger to any child immersed in it.�
Nice try, though Floyd. You need to refrain from spreading lies and disinformation on this board.
Busted | 11:19 a.m. April 27, 2008
Are you saying the Washington post is the word of god.
Mom | 11:27 a.m. April 27, 2008
Since when do the FLDS people care about losing a couple of teenage boys?
It's standard practice for them to kick teenage boys out and leave them to
fend for themselves.
How do we know these women are really the boys mothers? What with all of the former FLDS parents submitting DNA from out-of-state claiming their families had been stolen from them and "reassigned" to someone else.
Perhaps they can't "find" these kids, because they were indoctrinated so well to lie to anyone outside of the compound, that these boys are doing as their mothers taught and aren't giving out their real names.
I think this is yet another PR ploy from the FLDS to garner sympathy and divert attention from the real reasons the children were removed in the first place.
How do we know these women are really the boys mothers? What with all of the former FLDS parents submitting DNA from out-of-state claiming their families had been stolen from them and "reassigned" to someone else.
Perhaps they can't "find" these kids, because they were indoctrinated so well to lie to anyone outside of the compound, that these boys are doing as their mothers taught and aren't giving out their real names.
I think this is yet another PR ploy from the FLDS to garner sympathy and divert attention from the real reasons the children were removed in the first place.
Re: Busted | 11:19 a.m | 11:38 a.m. April 27, 2008
Word of God?? Do you think God speaks to Warren Jeffs anymore than he speaks to
a Post reporter? LOL!
I�m saying �Floyd� is a liar and intentionally misquoted the Post.
Floyd = FLDS Polygamist
LOL! Time to change your moniker, dude!
I�m saying �Floyd� is a liar and intentionally misquoted the Post.
Floyd = FLDS Polygamist
LOL! Time to change your moniker, dude!
Granny T. | 11:39 a.m. April 27, 2008
Read between the lines. This is to save the children? Maybe not. Horrific things
are done 'in sheep's clothing' all of the time. And this may not
be about the good Baptists saving the poor souls of the infidels. This may be
about greed pure and simple.
From The Rocky Mountain News, USA July 16, 2005 �The community may have the last laugh, said pilot J.D. Doyle. West Texas is oil country. Other people own most of the mineral rights, the warranty deed shows. If the majority of mineral rights owners want to drill on the land, the property owner can�t say no, said John Griffin, an attorney for the Texas Railroad Commission, which manages oil and gas operations in the state.
�From the air, there�s a line of oil wells leading right up to the temple,� said J.D. Doyle.
In the first week in June, a drilling exploration rig went up on a neighboring ranch, about 200 yards from the YFZ Ranch fenceline. �There are enough rich oilmen out there who�d put a drilling rig next to the temple just to see the look on their faces,� J.D. Doyle said.�
From The Rocky Mountain News, USA July 16, 2005 �The community may have the last laugh, said pilot J.D. Doyle. West Texas is oil country. Other people own most of the mineral rights, the warranty deed shows. If the majority of mineral rights owners want to drill on the land, the property owner can�t say no, said John Griffin, an attorney for the Texas Railroad Commission, which manages oil and gas operations in the state.
�From the air, there�s a line of oil wells leading right up to the temple,� said J.D. Doyle.
In the first week in June, a drilling exploration rig went up on a neighboring ranch, about 200 yards from the YFZ Ranch fenceline. �There are enough rich oilmen out there who�d put a drilling rig next to the temple just to see the look on their faces,� J.D. Doyle said.�
glenn | 11:41 a.m. April 27, 2008
out of 467 kids, say half are girls =233. sounds like this is about average
with any community any where.
Mrs. Johnson | 11:48 a.m. April 27, 2008
And hello, there was NO evidence of abuse - there was "evidence" that
abuse "might" occur in the "future".
Google Swinton - the accuser who supposedly was responsible for the raid on FLDS - she's a pathetic person, with no credibility.
Google CPS and see what they are doing around the world to families - destroying them, with NO EVIDENCE.
Please write to your politicians, newspapers, friends, relatives, and everyone and anyone and tell them this insane act of brutality and injustice cannot be tolerated. WE MUST do something - we are on the brink!!!
And please help these poor people who have been so viciously abused. Go to their website and help them by donating - Captive FLDS Children - anything you can afford will help.
Be good, Americans. Be good Americans. Help those in Need. Protect YOUR rights and the rights of others. Don't let witch hunts continue.
Wake up, America!
Google Swinton - the accuser who supposedly was responsible for the raid on FLDS - she's a pathetic person, with no credibility.
Google CPS and see what they are doing around the world to families - destroying them, with NO EVIDENCE.
Please write to your politicians, newspapers, friends, relatives, and everyone and anyone and tell them this insane act of brutality and injustice cannot be tolerated. WE MUST do something - we are on the brink!!!
And please help these poor people who have been so viciously abused. Go to their website and help them by donating - Captive FLDS Children - anything you can afford will help.
Be good, Americans. Be good Americans. Help those in Need. Protect YOUR rights and the rights of others. Don't let witch hunts continue.
Wake up, America!
transplant | 12:04 p.m. April 27, 2008
when did the number of children go fro 462 to 467? Seemingly two children are
missing but nothing being said about another three extra? Or are there 5 extra?
So how are they going to have parents visit 'their' children when
they won't give proof that they are indeed their's? Accuratly
identifiing these children is a huge part of why we have this situation in the
first place. And why only the Mothers going to be able to visit? Please please
Deseret News keep us informed. Don't let this story fall by the wayside.
I was a foster child removed from her Catholic home at the age of two. My 9
brothers and sisters were not. I had a blissful, actually normal loving,
nurturing, few years before I was returned to a living hell. Because I was
rescued I have a different perspective on life than that of my siblings who
continue to live in denial of what happened to them in that house. In the long
run these chidren will thank the State of Texas for saving their sanity.
FLDS to blame | 12:05 p.m. April 27, 2008
Well, FLDS have changed their names and DOB's a number of times. They wont
identify their children and the children cant idenitify their parents.
What a screwed up lot.
They probably have little Johnny and Jimmy, except they gave their names and Brigham and Jack and Aaron and Chris.
Children not able to identify themselves. Now that is real abuse
What a screwed up lot.
They probably have little Johnny and Jimmy, except they gave their names and Brigham and Jack and Aaron and Chris.
Children not able to identify themselves. Now that is real abuse
sick and tired | 12:10 p.m. April 27, 2008
I am so sick and tired of the FLDS lies. If these people had bothered to tell
the truth in the beginning, there would be no issue. But since they ALL chose
to lie, there are problems. If you can't name all of your children with
the same age, name, and birthdays from day 1 to day two, why on earth would you
expect social services to know which child, if any, you were speaking of. If
you claim a child is blonde and they account for all blonde children, don't
be surprised that they can't find said child when the actuality is that the
child has dark blonde hair.
This is just another ploy to attempt to gain public sympathy. SOrry they don't get mine when they place their own oxen into the mire on purpose.
This is just another ploy to attempt to gain public sympathy. SOrry they don't get mine when they place their own oxen into the mire on purpose.
Fundamantal rights | 12:11 p.m. April 27, 2008
There is a lot more at stake here than the issues of pologamy, or even child
abuse. The very essence of freedom is hanging in the balance. Individual,
fundamental rights are at stake. I'm not talking about individual crime
and abuse. Those need to be addressed on an individual basis. But individual
rights have been severely violated. It is not against the law to influence or
"indoctrinate" our children. A parent can teach their children that
it's alright to use illegal drugs. It isn't a crime unless they give
them to their children. You can't punish parents for teaching their
children certain things even if you think they're morally wrong. Only
actions can be addressed. And then only on an individual basis. You can't
assume everyone is guilty and proceed as if they are, just because a few might
be. This is a frightening event to parents everywhere. Our basic
constitutional rights are hangning in the balance! A few years ago a CPS
worker in Utah told my dad that it's worth the sacrifice of a few innocent
families just as long as the guilty ones are found and punished. A common
mindset with the CPS.
Bill | 12:18 p.m. April 27, 2008
I stand behind anyone that is trying to help a child or children that are in
fact being abused in any way. BUT--- we have got to be sure there is truly abuse
of some kind happening before we send in government "Storm Troopers"
to disrupt the freedom of ANYONES religion. Read our Church History & see
what it's like for our government to make laws to persecute us, Eg.
Missouri just rescinded a law in 1976 that made it legal to kill any that was a
MORMON!!! So we need to be careful what we believe if we don't know the
facts.
Tarheel | 12:36 p.m. April 27, 2008
Many of you who have chosen to comment during the past few weeks on the Desert
Morning News articles related to the raid on the YFZ Ranch should carefully
consider the following: It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a
fool than to speak out and leave no doubt. That bit of wisdom is especially
relevant to those of you who attempt to defend the Child Protective Services for
destroying, or seriously damaging, the lives of some 416 (?) children while
pretending to protect them. Your arguments are unsound, and are obviously based
on emotion rather than reason. Young children are always better protected in
the care of their mothers, even FLDS mothers, who have a natural bond with them
than they are as wards of governmental bureaucrats for whom they are only
numbers or foster parents who keep them for a fee. From what most of you say, it
is apparent that your concern is not about the welfare of the children but
rather your hatred of a religious practice with which you disagree.
Anonymous | 12:46 p.m. April 27, 2008
"And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all
the teen BOYS?"
They're probably in a "lost boys" shelter in St. George. Come on people! Enough pointing the finger at the State of Texas. What have you done to clean up the mess festering in Hildale?
They're probably in a "lost boys" shelter in St. George. Come on people! Enough pointing the finger at the State of Texas. What have you done to clean up the mess festering in Hildale?
Re: Tarheel | 12:46 p.m. April 27, 2008
Tarheel says: "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool
than to speak out and leave no doubt."
Does this rule apply to you, too?
Does this rule apply to you, too?
wrz | 12:46 p.m. April 27, 2008
>>If Jesus returned today, someone would lock him up for not having proper
identification.<< Floyd
When Jesus was here they killed him for even less. True story.
When Jesus was here they killed him for even less. True story.
Canada | 12:51 p.m. April 27, 2008
These Mothers were on CNN acting very strange talking about living in Zion and
every lady dressed the same, with the same hair style.. Never did I see any MEN
speaking out, thought they were suppose to be be Men with power, well where are
they????? All of a sudden children don't count?? And where is all the
boys???, even on their own website that they created asking for money all the
photos are mostly all girls, all the CNN footage that I have seen is mostly
girls, do they not like the boys and ship them off or give them away or
something?? Maybe they only keep the girls to continue on with the outrageous
sexual abuse!!!!
These women can't even answer a question or if they do it looks like they look at each other for the answer, they are brainwashed!!! Its not shame on CPS but SHAME SHAME ON FLDS!!!!
These women can't even answer a question or if they do it looks like they look at each other for the answer, they are brainwashed!!! Its not shame on CPS but SHAME SHAME ON FLDS!!!!
CA | 12:53 p.m. April 27, 2008
Bill- there is evidence- 20 pregnant teenage girls, the intital and subsequent
lies to authorities, the girls who said "no age is too young to be
married", etc. Plenty. Of. Evidence.
Just wait until the charges start up. After the DNA is completed.
Just wait until the charges start up. After the DNA is completed.
Sadly | 1:17 p.m. April 27, 2008
The children have paid the price for their parents stupidity.
Let's see the facts | 1:23 p.m. April 27, 2008
I've heard that there were 2 girls under age 18 that were pregnant, but we
don't know who the husbands are, could they possibly be boys under 18. I
have yet to see any factual documentation just reporters that love
sensationalism and numerous readers that buy into their words.
Show some actual stats.
How many girls are underage with children.
What is the legal marrying age.
How old is their husbands.
What relation is the girl to the husband is it 1st, 2nd or 3rd cousins, or is it
a neighbor.
Statements from the pregnant girls themselves on how they were married.
May a journalist write a factual statement with proof.
Show some actual stats.
How many girls are underage with children.
What is the legal marrying age.
How old is their husbands.
What relation is the girl to the husband is it 1st, 2nd or 3rd cousins, or is it
a neighbor.
Statements from the pregnant girls themselves on how they were married.
May a journalist write a factual statement with proof.
Facts | 1:49 p.m. April 27, 2008
How can they show facts when these FLDS members keep changing their stories??,
as stated earlier when CPS was trying to figure out who was who the members kept
changing their names. One day they had one name and the next day they had a
different name.
Unfortunately these kids will have to be labeled with a number it seems to keep track of who is who and thats sad.
I am not surprised the numbers keep changing. Its almost like having an alien invasion and thats very sad. These children should not be raised this way. They should know who they are and who their parents are!
I am shocked that this kind of things happen in 2008 in the USA where kids are locked up behind a gate and imprisoned just for the sake of religion!!
Unfortunately these kids will have to be labeled with a number it seems to keep track of who is who and thats sad.
I am not surprised the numbers keep changing. Its almost like having an alien invasion and thats very sad. These children should not be raised this way. They should know who they are and who their parents are!
I am shocked that this kind of things happen in 2008 in the USA where kids are locked up behind a gate and imprisoned just for the sake of religion!!
Tsew Naxet | 1:53 p.m. April 27, 2008
Go Texas.
zoar | 2:16 p.m. April 27, 2008
This is an eyewitness account. I can�t post urls so I will
post the information.
My three oldest girls, ages 16, 15, and 12, had to get urine samples for a pregnancy test. Also, the nurse had these girls lie down on a table, one by one, so that she could feel their stomach, supposedly for urinary infections. The oldest of the girls burst into tears and would not let the nurse touch her stomach. The nurse then told the fifteen-year-old to get on the table. At first the girl wouldn't, but I told her to just do it. I knew it would only prove them wrong in thinking our girls are immoral. They (CPS workers, and nurse) never asked my consent to do any of this."
Friday, April 11, 2008 3:15:00 P
Let�s go to every home and give pregnancy tests to girls 11 through 16. If the tests are positive, then we can take those children into protective custody. That seems to be the plan with these FLDS children. What freedom loving person cannot see rights being violated by CPS?
My three oldest girls, ages 16, 15, and 12, had to get urine samples for a pregnancy test. Also, the nurse had these girls lie down on a table, one by one, so that she could feel their stomach, supposedly for urinary infections. The oldest of the girls burst into tears and would not let the nurse touch her stomach. The nurse then told the fifteen-year-old to get on the table. At first the girl wouldn't, but I told her to just do it. I knew it would only prove them wrong in thinking our girls are immoral. They (CPS workers, and nurse) never asked my consent to do any of this."
Friday, April 11, 2008 3:15:00 P
Let�s go to every home and give pregnancy tests to girls 11 through 16. If the tests are positive, then we can take those children into protective custody. That seems to be the plan with these FLDS children. What freedom loving person cannot see rights being violated by CPS?
Jim | 2:25 p.m. April 27, 2008
Here it is: Two days of hearing before the Judge two CPS witnesses No Facts, no
Evidence, no Proof of anything and the KIDS are gone!! All the rest is what the
Media has told you or info from Flora Jessop and hear say. This world is full
people full of hate and will believe any thing they hear. Please wait for the
real FACTS then let the heads roll.
To: zoar | 2:33 p.m. April 27, 2008
Eyewitness account from who? A FLDS mother? And your point is?
Sorry, but they have cried �wolf� one too many times. If they can�t tell the truth when asked to identify themselves and the children; then there is no reason to believe anything else that spews from their lips into the media is anything other than a lie.
Sorry, but they have cried �wolf� one too many times. If they can�t tell the truth when asked to identify themselves and the children; then there is no reason to believe anything else that spews from their lips into the media is anything other than a lie.
Hipaa laws | 2:33 p.m. April 27, 2008
You cannot call a hospital up and ask about a patients condition because of
recent Hipaa laws. The mother lost custody, so of COURSE she will not be given
any information since parental kidnapping is a possibility especially
considering that already seems to be the case. Ex'd men are coming forward
and requesting DNA testing since the mother of their children were reassigned
and given to another man by Warren Jeffs, then moved across state lines. Why
would anyone trust them to not do the same again?
Kate | 2:34 p.m. April 27, 2008
I totally agree with the idea of taking the men away until they figure it out
and not the little children. I agree that the FLDS compound is not good for
young girls who are pressured or forced into getting married so young, but why
take the babies away from their mothers? Having a baby myself, I cannot imagine
that pain and constant worry. They've been taken into a much worse
situation where they cannot possibly be well taken care of. Who makes a decision
like that? At least bring the little ones back and save everyone the cost-
financial for the state and heartache and fear for the families.
Red | 2:47 p.m. April 27, 2008
"DFPS spokesman Chris Van Deusen and others have repeatedly and strongly
denied allegations made by several FLDS mothers that CPS workers threatened to
never allow them to see their children again if they didn't cooperate or if
the women returned to their homes at the YFZ Ranch."
Trouble is, at least twice groups of FLDS moms claim this has happened. The two groups didn't have any way to communicate with each other.
If DFPS isn't saying this, what are they saying, and why is it so readily misunderstood by the FLDS women?
It is well known that the Achilles' heel of polygamy prosecutions is getting the women to cooperate. I strongly suspect that CPS is leading up to a requirement -- to be "strongly denied" later, of course -- that the women will have to cooperate with prosecution of the men as a condition of getting their children back. And the irony is that, given CPS' dubious commitment to honesty, even if they cooperate the women may still permanently lose their kids.
Trouble is, at least twice groups of FLDS moms claim this has happened. The two groups didn't have any way to communicate with each other.
If DFPS isn't saying this, what are they saying, and why is it so readily misunderstood by the FLDS women?
It is well known that the Achilles' heel of polygamy prosecutions is getting the women to cooperate. I strongly suspect that CPS is leading up to a requirement -- to be "strongly denied" later, of course -- that the women will have to cooperate with prosecution of the men as a condition of getting their children back. And the irony is that, given CPS' dubious commitment to honesty, even if they cooperate the women may still permanently lose their kids.
Re: Red | 2:56 p.m. April 27, 2008
Red: "...given CPS' dubious commitment to honesty..."
You're absolutely right. The FLDS have been far more truthful than CPS.
;-D
You're absolutely right. The FLDS have been far more truthful than CPS.
;-D
Jessie | 3:03 p.m. April 27, 2008
I for one am glad that something is being done to help these children. I am not
saying that CPS has made all of the correct decisions in this process but I know
someone personally that is a product of this lifestyle and she has endured many
abuses (physical, mental, emotional, sexual etc.) in her life. I don't
think she will ever get over it in this lifetime. Unless you are close to or
have been in this situation it is hard to know what is really going on behind
those gates. I pray that the children are going to be okay whether with their
parents or in foster care. NO MORE ABUSE!!!!!
Cookie | 3:07 p.m. April 27, 2008
War in Jeffs: Brilliant observation! You sliced into
the meat right next to the bone!
People, it has been reported by more than one source that limited medical care exists on an FLDS compound. Homeopathic remedies are often used in place of mainstream medical care.
Isn't it possible that the child in the hospital
NEEDED modern medical attention that was NOT being
provided? Isn't it possible that the child NEEDED
an accurate medical diagnosis so that the real condition could be treated?
Health care providers are mandated by HIPPA laws.
All health care workers including doctors, nurses,
CNAs, office workers, ward clerks, EMTs, and
even the housekeeping staff can risk their jobs
if they breach confidentiality by telling anyone
about a patient's condition or what room they are
in. There's more but this is enough for now.
Three children are dead in my area because CPS
wasn't notified. Their voice is gone!
I have agonized for days over this dilemma.
Darrell Azar stated on Dr. Phil's show Wed.
that it could not be determined how, but every
measure would be taken to reunify children and
their mothers in appropriate circumstances:
"What has been done to FLDS we should not do."
the meat right next to the bone!
People, it has been reported by more than one source that limited medical care exists on an FLDS compound. Homeopathic remedies are often used in place of mainstream medical care.
Isn't it possible that the child in the hospital
NEEDED modern medical attention that was NOT being
provided? Isn't it possible that the child NEEDED
an accurate medical diagnosis so that the real condition could be treated?
Health care providers are mandated by HIPPA laws.
All health care workers including doctors, nurses,
CNAs, office workers, ward clerks, EMTs, and
even the housekeeping staff can risk their jobs
if they breach confidentiality by telling anyone
about a patient's condition or what room they are
in. There's more but this is enough for now.
Three children are dead in my area because CPS
wasn't notified. Their voice is gone!
I have agonized for days over this dilemma.
Darrell Azar stated on Dr. Phil's show Wed.
that it could not be determined how, but every
measure would be taken to reunify children and
their mothers in appropriate circumstances:
"What has been done to FLDS we should not do."
The truth stick | 3:13 p.m. April 27, 2008
Without a single charge being filed, the state of Texas has rounded up a
"weird" religious sect, literally placed them in concentration camps,
and then forcefully removed all of the children and placed them in government
sanctioned homes to be re-educated.
Without a charge being filed...
Without regard for whether a child or his or her mother or father was involved in any illegal activity.
Simply because of their "weird" beliefs and their association with the sect.
"First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak out..."
The precedent that is being set here is quite frightening.
Without a charge being filed...
Without regard for whether a child or his or her mother or father was involved in any illegal activity.
Simply because of their "weird" beliefs and their association with the sect.
"First they came for the Jews, but I wasn't a Jew so I didn't speak out..."
The precedent that is being set here is quite frightening.
Gena | 3:15 p.m. April 27, 2008
CPS has continually stated the women and children tried to confuse them about
names and family relationships. I contend the CPS workers are just easily
confused. They have accused the FLDS of embarking on a disinformation campaign,
but what did CPS release to the media early on to get the public on their
side?
CPS myth #1: Sex bed in the temple
The truth: Bed is used for people who need to rest or who become ill
CPS myth #2: Cyanide poisoning document found (oh, horrors!)
The truth: A cyanide poisoning treatment page torn out of a first aide manual - reasonable in any medical clinic
CPS myth #3: 16-year-old caller complaining of 49-year-old husband who beats and rapes her and who had a baby and is pregnant
The truth: Caller is a 33-year-old black woman who gets her jollies by making fake distress calls to police and shelters
And it goes on and on - yet people like Nancy Grace keep trumpeting "13-year old girls getting raped by 50-year-old men"! Really? Where are they?
How about some TRUTH from CPS for a change??
CPS myth #1: Sex bed in the temple
The truth: Bed is used for people who need to rest or who become ill
CPS myth #2: Cyanide poisoning document found (oh, horrors!)
The truth: A cyanide poisoning treatment page torn out of a first aide manual - reasonable in any medical clinic
CPS myth #3: 16-year-old caller complaining of 49-year-old husband who beats and rapes her and who had a baby and is pregnant
The truth: Caller is a 33-year-old black woman who gets her jollies by making fake distress calls to police and shelters
And it goes on and on - yet people like Nancy Grace keep trumpeting "13-year old girls getting raped by 50-year-old men"! Really? Where are they?
How about some TRUTH from CPS for a change??
Premature Judgement | 3:28 p.m. April 27, 2008
NO CONVINCING EVIDENCE YET, ONLY ACCUSATIONS.
ANYONE ASSUMING WIDESPREAD PERVERSION AND EVIL ON THE PART OF THESE PEOPLE, WITHOUT KNOWING THEM (AND THAT'S ALMOST ALL OF US), IS RUSHING TO JUDGEMENT.
UNTIL CONVINCING EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED, WE SHOULD ALL DEMAND THE IMMEDIATE REUNITING OF THESE FAMILIES.
CAN YOU IMAGINE ANYTHING MORE TERRIBLE THAN YOUR CHILDREN TAKEN AND PUT INTO THE HANDS OF THOSE YOU DON'T TRUST...MAYBE PERMANENTLY?
PRESENT REAL EVIDENCE IMMEDIATELY OR RELEASE THE CHILDREN. WE MUST PRESUME INNOCENCE UNTIL GUILT IS PROVEN OR WE ARE ALL SITTING DUCKS WAITING FOR OUR TURN TO BE THE NEXT VICTIMS OF PREMATURE JUDGEMENT.
ANYONE ASSUMING WIDESPREAD PERVERSION AND EVIL ON THE PART OF THESE PEOPLE, WITHOUT KNOWING THEM (AND THAT'S ALMOST ALL OF US), IS RUSHING TO JUDGEMENT.
UNTIL CONVINCING EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED, WE SHOULD ALL DEMAND THE IMMEDIATE REUNITING OF THESE FAMILIES.
CAN YOU IMAGINE ANYTHING MORE TERRIBLE THAN YOUR CHILDREN TAKEN AND PUT INTO THE HANDS OF THOSE YOU DON'T TRUST...MAYBE PERMANENTLY?
PRESENT REAL EVIDENCE IMMEDIATELY OR RELEASE THE CHILDREN. WE MUST PRESUME INNOCENCE UNTIL GUILT IS PROVEN OR WE ARE ALL SITTING DUCKS WAITING FOR OUR TURN TO BE THE NEXT VICTIMS OF PREMATURE JUDGEMENT.
So Sad | 3:35 p.m. April 27, 2008
Hatred, ignorance and disgust have caused so many of us to lose all compassion.
Children have been pulled away from parents. These are not bruised and abused
children, these are well-cared for children. They love their mothers and their
mothers love them. I don't care what religion or culture anyone comes from
that is a universal truth.
It's time for Americans to protest this injustice. Lock up them men and stop punishing the children!
It's time for Americans to protest this injustice. Lock up them men and stop punishing the children!
PsychNurse | 3:39 p.m. April 27, 2008
Does anyone realize that these "Group Homes" they have put most of
these kids in are just modern day orphanages? One of them has 20 children in it
with 2 "houseparents" and one assistant.
The teenage boys have been sent to a group shelter for "troubled teens" and the younger ones 8 years old and up have been put with them. Most of these kids under 12 will suffer serious consequences from being snatched from their parents and extended family. A study cited by Michael Reagan on Townhall showed that 73% of children put in foster care ended up commiting some level of crime or living on the streets. I believe that study documented children over 3.
The social workers at CPS have had training in childhood development and are well aware that all of these children between age 18 months and 10 will be vulnerable to developing "attachment disorder" and other very serious phsychological problems.
This tragedy is not what is in "the best interest of the children." It is a nasty political issue directed at the FLDS religion.
The teenage boys have been sent to a group shelter for "troubled teens" and the younger ones 8 years old and up have been put with them. Most of these kids under 12 will suffer serious consequences from being snatched from their parents and extended family. A study cited by Michael Reagan on Townhall showed that 73% of children put in foster care ended up commiting some level of crime or living on the streets. I believe that study documented children over 3.
The social workers at CPS have had training in childhood development and are well aware that all of these children between age 18 months and 10 will be vulnerable to developing "attachment disorder" and other very serious phsychological problems.
This tragedy is not what is in "the best interest of the children." It is a nasty political issue directed at the FLDS religion.
Hey Red | 3:52 p.m. April 27, 2008
You have logic issues. The mothers, with no way of contacting one another, also
all lied about names, ages, and parentage. Since they did this is is logical to
conclude they would claim "boo hoo, they said that I would never see my
baby again." Well, if they continue to allow their daughters up as
priesthood harlots to be traded off at the whim of Warren Jeffs, I say good.
To Zoar | 4:09 p.m. April 27, 2008
No child has ever been interviewed and the only evidence that CPS is supposedly
harming those children is coming from the Mothers themselves, distorting the
truth to make the CPS look bad.
And if any of its true the very fact that these kids has been isolated from normal procedures would be foreign procedures to them anyhow. They probably have never had physical exams that is needed for testing done to them in the manner described.
CPS is PROTECTING these children not harming them!!
And if any of its true the very fact that these kids has been isolated from normal procedures would be foreign procedures to them anyhow. They probably have never had physical exams that is needed for testing done to them in the manner described.
CPS is PROTECTING these children not harming them!!
TO Psychnurse | 4:11 p.m. April 27, 2008
They are already from a "group home" environment you find so
horrendous. There were 19 total homes and how many hundreds of people? The
difference is that in a state group home, they will not be forced to marry and
become pregnant by the whim of Church Authority when momma announces a girl has
started her cycle and possibly to a close relative. Boys will not be kicked out
for being competition for the females.
The reason some foster children tend to become legally troubled is because of the environment they were pulled. Clearly you should know that! When they were mostly raised by a mother that used crack and a father that was non-existent it is ridiculous to blame CPS when they too have troubles. The difference is that for the most part, they are now fed, safe, educated, and have a chance despite their upbringing. Do you honestly believe that a man with 50 children, some of which are not biologically his but reassigned and moved across state lines, will know ALL of the children's names? In the group home, percentages are actually better then what they experienced.
The reason some foster children tend to become legally troubled is because of the environment they were pulled. Clearly you should know that! When they were mostly raised by a mother that used crack and a father that was non-existent it is ridiculous to blame CPS when they too have troubles. The difference is that for the most part, they are now fed, safe, educated, and have a chance despite their upbringing. Do you honestly believe that a man with 50 children, some of which are not biologically his but reassigned and moved across state lines, will know ALL of the children's names? In the group home, percentages are actually better then what they experienced.
fifty | 4:22 p.m. April 27, 2008
The FLDS has always had access to fine legal assistance and is well aware when
it is breaking the law. It chose to involve its underage girls in sexual
relationships with adult males. In my state, this is statutory rape. CPS removes
all children from homes in which abuse occurs. If the father abuses a child and
the mother lets it occur, both are criminally charged. FLDS also kicked out
underage boys from their homes and handed over some children to new parents.
This, too is illegal. Because there was so much abuse and because of a lack of
cooperation, it was unclear to DPS whether there were any homes in which
children were not abused. Thus, all of the children were removed. The FLDS has
to understand that illegal actions have consequences and the FLDS is paying the
typical consequences for abuse. I'm sure every parent that loses a child to
CPS is upset, although not every parent choses to write his governor.
As for the diseases, the incubation period for the chicken pox indicates that the children caught it on the ranch. The mom prior to separation should have reported the dehydration of the 2 year-old.
As for the diseases, the incubation period for the chicken pox indicates that the children caught it on the ranch. The mom prior to separation should have reported the dehydration of the 2 year-old.
Leroy G. | 4:23 p.m. April 27, 2008
2 lost kids?? They can't lose kids because they change the names. They gave
them each and every one a number. We know that because CPS told us that. So they
know exactly which facility each and every child was supposed to go -- by the
numbers. Should have been easy to find out if they arrived. Besides didn't
they have one social worker assigned to each child?
It is reported that some of the childrens eyes lit up when they saw the playground. Guess they have been to a playground before!! Maybe they just were not interested in Crayons!
It is reported that some of the childrens eyes lit up when they saw the playground. Guess they have been to a playground before!! Maybe they just were not interested in Crayons!
Truthful FLDS | 4:26 p.m. April 27, 2008
Larry King: �Have you ever seen a younger girl being
married off to an older man?�
Pause.
Three FLDS women respond exactly the same way: �Not that I have seen.�
Larry King: �So are all these stories false, or is it that you haven�t seen?�
Long Pause���
Very tentatively, two of the FLDS women respond the same way.
�I believe they are false.�
No one could have watched that interview and believed they weren�t lying. You are completely naive if you think the FLDS don�t practice underage spiritual marriages and those FLDS mothers have never seen or even heard of such a thing.
It�s not just lying...It�s lying for the Lord.
Pause.
Three FLDS women respond exactly the same way: �Not that I have seen.�
Larry King: �So are all these stories false, or is it that you haven�t seen?�
Long Pause���
Very tentatively, two of the FLDS women respond the same way.
�I believe they are false.�
No one could have watched that interview and believed they weren�t lying. You are completely naive if you think the FLDS don�t practice underage spiritual marriages and those FLDS mothers have never seen or even heard of such a thing.
It�s not just lying...It�s lying for the Lord.
Chicago | 4:29 p.m. April 27, 2008
Heard it on the radio just the other night here in Chicago, church leaders
discussing the problem of young inner city girls becoming pregnant, the burden
it places on parents taking care of their kids kids, so apprently those kids and
their kids are not taken away. They went on to mentioned that some ADC moms have
all their kids by differnt fathers, but their babies/children are rarely
removed. Not all are blacks, but a lot are. These were black ministers/leaders
talking about problems in their neighborhoods. Try to take all their kids away
as a group, and I bet you would have a riot. To my mind, by comparison, the FLDS
people look pretty darn good ...a CPS medical expert testified that the FLDS
children "were a healthy lot" and I haven't read anything that
would indicate any had been marked with a belt or lamp cord or coat hanger or
any other beating instrument that we often hear about in what I would term
"real abuse cases".
Chicago | 4:31 p.m. April 27, 2008
As for the 20 teen girls the CPS reports as having had children ... I read one
article that indicated one of the "girls" CPS had counted was now 31
having had a baby at 14 in 1993. In 1993, she probably was not even in Texas,
but if she had been, Texas law back then allowed marriage at 14 with parental
consent; the age with parental consent was raised from 14 to 16 in 2005 ... so
she would have been legal even if she had been in Texas. Anybody heard of
"expost facto"? Interesting that this minimum age for marriage was not
raised until the FLDS had bought the ranch property. At this point, it seems
difficult to tell how many of that "20 teen girl" number might fall
into the type of self serving staticical manipulation that occurred with the
31yo.
Chicago | 4:31 p.m. April 27, 2008
From another article, interesting that some mothers who CPS had previously
accepted as being over 18, perhaps decided to say they were under 18 after they
found out that being considered a minor would allow them to stay with there baby
or child. Maybe they are under 18, and maybe they are not? To my mind, an over
18 mother that is desperate to stay with her child, might very conceivable lie,
and claim to be under 18, if that meant not being separated. CPS probably loves
to have anyone with a child claim to be a minor, since they see that a
justification for their actions. But if these moms really are over 18, then
effectively CPS has coerced them to say otherwise just to stay with their
babies.
There was still another article that mentioned a 23yo, that CPS had forced to leave the ranch because CPS, just by looking at her, arbitrary decided she was under 18, despite her telling them otherwise. The finally let her go back to the ranch.
There was still another article that mentioned a 23yo, that CPS had forced to leave the ranch because CPS, just by looking at her, arbitrary decided she was under 18, despite her telling them otherwise. The finally let her go back to the ranch.
Fools Paradise | 4:31 p.m. April 27, 2008
Look what disobedience has wrought. Un-manageable chaos with children and
families. Folks, follow the true and living prophet...find him if you must.
There is otherwise a heavy price to pay sooner or later. The "Texas
roundup" would have been avoided.
Chicago | 4:32 p.m. April 27, 2008
Maybe FDLS people have been fearful of trusting to give CPS accurate
information, but what I see is a CPS that has bent and distorted facts to suit
their purposes as well.
As for the report that some girl said no age was "too young" for "spiritual mariage"; maybe the report is true, maybe not. But even if it is true, that statment alone is no proof that sexual comsumation of marriage actually occured, even if spiritual mariage did. In some Muslim countries, girls have been maried at birth, but their is not sexual comsumation of that mariage until the child has become adult.
In another article, I read that an Attorny Goldstein had filed papers indicating that the Sheriff knew and had verified, that the man who was alleged to be abusing his 16yo wife (what now seems to be a hoax call) was not at the YFZ ranch and had not even been to Texas in past 20years. Yet However, the Sheriff had previously stated that finding the girl and the man was "essential" to his justification for obtaining the orignal warrant to enter the ranch. Apparently the Sheriff has not been available for comment.
As for the report that some girl said no age was "too young" for "spiritual mariage"; maybe the report is true, maybe not. But even if it is true, that statment alone is no proof that sexual comsumation of marriage actually occured, even if spiritual mariage did. In some Muslim countries, girls have been maried at birth, but their is not sexual comsumation of that mariage until the child has become adult.
In another article, I read that an Attorny Goldstein had filed papers indicating that the Sheriff knew and had verified, that the man who was alleged to be abusing his 16yo wife (what now seems to be a hoax call) was not at the YFZ ranch and had not even been to Texas in past 20years. Yet However, the Sheriff had previously stated that finding the girl and the man was "essential" to his justification for obtaining the orignal warrant to enter the ranch. Apparently the Sheriff has not been available for comment.
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The story says "CPS SAYS they can't find the boys". That info comes from the state of TEXAS, NOT the parents. Why are people so ready to say FLDS is lying?? Just because the CPS worker says so??
I see the term "false prophet" thrown around here a lot.
Question, "Who determines who is a true prophet???"
I don't know that, you don't know that.
If Jesus returned today, someone would lock him up for not having proper identification.