Deseret News | Reader comments: 2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for

Reader comments
2 young FLDS boys unaccounted for

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ayzel | 1:23 a.m. April 27, 2008

Oh whatever. They're probably inventing these boys, in an attempt to further convince the public that CPS screwed up. Even if it is true, 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay.

AZ mother | 1:56 a.m. April 27, 2008

While I agree with CPS attempting to protect these children, I don't see that the fathers are to concerned. As for (and I quote) "Even if it is true, 2 lost for over 400 saved is a small price to pay". Would you like it if those two were your children. What a lack of compassion statement.

What?!!! | 2:09 a.m. April 27, 2008

Two lost over 400 "saved" is a small price to pay?" What an outragious horror! My friends in Europe and Australia cannot believe what is going on in the US, although some of them express contempt for the US justice system that I find myself incapable of defending under these circumstances. To think that this is the same country that gave shelter to those who were mistreated in the "old countries" for their religious beliefs! The Baptists better remember that they were once as persecuted for being "heretics" as these people are. As revolting as I consider polygamy to be, it does not justify to do what the authorities in Texas have been doing. Only the totalitarian regimes of this world behave in such a way. Those among us who call ourselves Christians better remember to behave as such. Where is the love and compassion? Where is the Samaritan's creed? Would we like to have our children taken away from us in such an absolutely cruel way? Why do some amongs us aplaud this travesty? This is the way of the Beast. Saving the children? What a hypocrisy!

Comments continue below

Greywolf | 2:12 a.m. April 27, 2008

ayzel you are kidding right? Please say your kidding about losing two children is a small price to pay.

Please?

chemist | 2:50 a.m. April 27, 2008

I agree with ayzel. The flds have lied about so many things they are most probably lying about this, At least the children are now out of that dreadful compound.

2 lost is a small price? | 4:32 a.m. April 27, 2008

Then why don't you hand over two of your children?

How cruel, heartless, and mean to suggest that the complete loss of two children is just some sort of bargain or collateral damage , a small price to pay. You sicken me.

CA | 4:36 a.m. April 27, 2008

I, too, am not very sympathetic.

There is no way two kids are missing. They could not have escaped the ring of media and lawyers surrounding the town. Most likely the 'loss' is due to misidtification- a problem caused by the 'parents'.

I also doubt the woman has only two kids- and 11 year old and a toddler.

Told ya so... | 4:45 a.m. April 27, 2008

When it was found earlier that the jack-booted thugs didn't have an accurate count of how many children they ripped from their mothers' arms, I commented here saying that this very thing was going to happen. How many more children is the state of Texas going to lose? Oh well, those children aren't their children...just the children of some "weird" religious sect.

When this is all over and the lawsuits are all done, the FLDS church is going to own the state of Texas.

um... | 5:31 a.m. April 27, 2008

why wouldn't they know where the boys are if they are actually missing? Shouldn't a list be kept of who went where?

Douglas | 5:35 a.m. April 27, 2008

I love this stuff indicating that "saving" a few kids justifies trashing the same American rights and principles that millions of our forfathers gave their lives for. If your bleeeding heart can't stand a few childrens at risk, just spend your energy fighting legalized abortion (ie, reproductive freedom). If the constitutional issues were worth a million plus of our lives, how can we throw them away upon the first vague allegations child abuse? Why not investigate, identify the individuals who have actually broken the law, arrest, try and punish them? It is, after all, what we do to everone else alleged to have broken a criminal law in this Country.

Depriving a person of the most basic Constituional liberties based solely upon membership in a religious (or any other) group, without independant inquiry into that persons conduct, without hearing, right to counsel, etc, is supposed to prohibited by our Constitution and American heritage. The terrorists in Guantanomo (not Americans) have been afforded more Constituional protections than these Americans have.

Susan in VA | 6:33 a.m. April 27, 2008

I do not agree with the beliefs of the FLDS, however I do believe these children should have been housed with their mothers. The two boys are children of a loving mother who is worried sick about them. (ayzel... small price to pay? not if they are your kids) This whole thing is a travesty of justice and reminds me of the taking of the Native American children. i thought we had learned better. Just because they are different doesn't meke them abusive... sheme on the Texas CPS.

jjc | 6:34 a.m. April 27, 2008

You mean it's a hoax like the call that "justified" the raid? I guess the flds are fast learners.

bj in Utah | 7:17 a.m. April 27, 2008

some say patriotism, some say religion, I say the Texas state Child protective services is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Our own state agency isn't much better. "We did it for the children", they will say with quivering lower lip. The road to Hades is paved with good intentions. The FLDS church might well have a problem with polygamy, but to raid an entire community with storm trooper mentality and abduct all the children without evidence, only unsubstantiated second hand information is just plain wrong!

inept cps | 7:22 a.m. April 27, 2008

I said it before and I say it again. They will lose someone. There will be a tragedy. The chance of a death is high. There will be a coverup. CPS and the foster care system is undertrained, underpaid, an self-admittedly overwhelmed. It's Texas's own Iraq quagmire. But, hey, it is a nice retirement plan for the combatants.

WRONG AND WRONG | 7:21 a.m. April 27, 2008

WRONG that all the children were taken from individual households without proof that that household was involved in underage marrage --- A TEXAS ROUNDUP

WRONG that some FLDS participate in underage marrage --- CHILD MOLESTATION

Mahonri | 7:24 a.m. April 27, 2008

When they were at home with their parents we knew where they were.
Wait until some die or are molested while in "protective custody". It is only a matter of time.

Anonymous | 7:31 a.m. April 27, 2008

WTF? It is not the responsibility of the mothers of these children to ensure the CPS has the correct count, is it? I mean, a government agency with the power and authority to enter a home and break up a family should have its accounting ducks in a row, shouldn't they? Is it too much to ask that a government agency with the power and authority to enter a home and break up a family ensure accurate records are kept, children are accounted for, and mothers and informed as to the status of their children (even if they aren't allowed to visit)? First it was 416 kids taken. Now its something like 437? And a mother says she can't get ANY information on her two children?

"Those (allegations) are absolutely false. No one from CPS would say that," Van Deusen said. The best legal defense I've heard to date. I wonder if "No one from the FLDS church would do that to a child" will stand up in court, or in public opinion. What a travesty and a shame. I hope this leads to some serious revision of CPS in Texas.

Kris in AL | 7:37 a.m. April 27, 2008

On what grounds did they remove infants? While the "threat" to older female children seems to be substantial, where is the threat to the babies? Where is the threat to the boys?

How does the constitution justify removing breast feeding babies from mothers who are not suspected of physical abuse?

While I think the adults in this compound are extremely wacky, I see no consitutional justification for removing the children younger than 8.

Disgusted with Texas | 7:42 a.m. April 27, 2008

Good thing Texas decided to come in and keep them safe. Mass herding doesn't work so well!

I do not condone any abuse, but that includes abuse by the government officials who ignore the constitution and deny Americans their rights.

Chief | 7:58 a.m. April 27, 2008

Go to Scout Camp and lose track of two young boys, and listen to the howl. Every soul is great, or maybe not!

delilah | 8:06 a.m. April 27, 2008

IF there are indeed missing children, then then there is obviously something wrong with this system. Hopefully it will turn out to be an erroneous report.

From
Told ya so

"When it was found earlier that the jack-booted thugs didn't have an accurate count of how many children they ripped from their mothers' arms, I commented here saying that this very thing was going to happen."

You really should get your facts straight. The only reason the number of 'children' shifted is because the girls lied about their ages and were determined to also be minors.

And we should not forget the 20 girls already determined to have given birth while they were underage. That is a crime, and NONE of this would be happening if these people were not breaking the law and abusing children in the first place. If blame is going to be placed it falls squarely on the shoulders of the abusers

And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all the teen BOYS?

humangps | 8:15 a.m. April 27, 2008

The accused are adult men, not the women or children. They should have arrested and removed the men based on probable cause then found evidence to support their claims. Removing the children and relocating them in this manner is a ridiculous violation of the constitution.

Does the state do sweeps through under privileged neighborhoods in Dallas and Houston to remove children from single parent drug addiction crime infested homes and neighborhoods? Or is this where they will relocate some of the FLDS kids so that they can be assimilated into the real world?

Anonymous | 8:30 a.m. April 27, 2008

How come no one is commenting on the child in the hospital? Yes CPS lost two kids (of a family subgroup of more than just those two judging by the age differences), that shouldn't surprise anyone. But the fact that a child is in the hospital shows the alarming abuse CPS has allowed to these children.

Thought Police | 8:33 a.m. April 27, 2008

The most troubling part of this article comes near the end - "Yet the Department of Family and Protective Services has so far argued that each child who lived at the ranch was in danger because of a pattern of sexual, physical and emotional abuse there. Investigators described a "pattern of grooming girls from a young age to accept becoming married to middle-aged men" and identified 20 girls and women who got pregnant between the ages of 13 and 16."

Read between the lines and this is about the FLDS belief system. Substitute "because they refuse medical care" or "because they don't believe in modern technology" and the attack on this group's beliefs becomes clear.

As for the women, did they become pregnant before TX raised thier marriage age up from 14? How old were the fathers at the time? Does that really matter? How many other underage prenancies have DCFS handled in a similar manner, IE removing the child and any siblings from the custody of the mother/parents? In this era of reproductive rights, my guess is zero.

Whose Accounting? | 8:36 a.m. April 27, 2008

The headline seems a bit spectacular - or written by the FLDS. The story says that they DO know where all of the kids are, each child removed from the ranch is accounted for. What the story also says is that since they still don't know who is related in what way to who it's hard to tell the "mother" where her boys are. Nobody is lost, except in the mass of confusion created by the changing names and relationships these folks give from one day to the next.
Save the headline though, just in case someone really does go missing.

john b | 8:35 a.m. April 27, 2008

the spokesman for cps said they had the right count at each place .maybe she should use the same name every time so people would know who she is talking about. every one wants to jump all over the state but if they had went into a place where children were being abused and left your child there i bet it would be another story. lets let the courts do there work and get this settled .if there was abuse punish the perps and take care of them familys and if not get the kids back to the mothers where most children belong.i say most because if the mothers are abuseing their children they dont deserve them

School Teacher | 8:36 a.m. April 27, 2008

When a local elementary 'lost' two young girls for an hour they started a manhunt till they found them a mile away from the school. I remember the helicopters circling above, the school having likely the entire police department on campus and parents and children were traumatized. That school had almost double the children as CPS just took and they knew within five minutes of recess that they were missing and the search began.

Cal | 8:38 a.m. April 27, 2008

Keeping mothers separated from their young children is criminal and certainly against nature. If Texas just wants to harass the FLDS, they have succeeded. As an LDS member, I'd like to see pologamy stamped out, but there should be a better way.

Anonymous | 8:50 a.m. April 27, 2008

2 Boys? They're NOW concerned about 2 boys? It'll save them the trouble of driving them out of town in a few years. I can't believe all the folks who are falling for the "concerned mother" acts. The only thing these women are concerned with is popping out more kids for the prophet.

Rob | 8:53 a.m. April 27, 2008

They probably took all the children because they could have been moved to another location by the male leaders. Then these children would have been either kicked out because they were competing with the old men or 'married' to the older men. I can't believe the confusion caused by the mother's and children not giving their right names. I bet we will see quite a few women and children happy that they were taken out of this environment. Every person has a right to freedom and these women and children have not had that. Rape, incest and abuse by lots of men is what this is about.

Utah mom | 8:59 a.m. April 27, 2008

Child Protective Services in any state definately has too much power. I have seen what they can do here in Utah and I am afraid for the FLDS children of Texas and for their mothers. I believe FLDS mothers when they were told they wouldn't see their children again if they went back to the ranch. I have seen these threats. I think they are evil! I am disgusted with Texas and their officials and my heart goes out to the FLDS families and their children. I think FLDS should be entitled to a massive law suit against the state of Texas!

About Ayzel | 9:03 a.m. April 27, 2008

She probably has no children and that is why she made that remark. Because only a person who hasn't had children and never wanted them would say something so cruel to a parent.

Ayzel I was forced to give up 3 of my children for adoption 15 years ago - my hear still aches. My oldest son hates me for doing it as he loved his two sisters and youngest brother. Luckily the children were older with the youngest being 6 at the time. I have had to fight CPS and a majority of the time the workers have no children of their own and feel that they know more about raising children than the parents do. I actually had a worker with a vandetta against his exwife that he took out on me. He had twin sons which his ex wouldn't let him see.

Bytheway they can do everything CPS gets court ordered for them to do but they will never get their kids back. And yes parents are threaten with "f you don't this you will never get your kids back." I still have the letter to prove it.

Shame on... | 9:08 a.m. April 27, 2008

This really all goes back to the core. If the FLDS weren't having child marriages and molesting their young in the name of God THEN THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED. Wake up people and focus on the REAL cause. I know our judicial system could use a major overhaul. That's why I vote "NO" on all judges and you should too. People may say that the FLDS will sue and win Texas but they won't sue if they are truely Christ-Like. Look at the Amish.

SJ in Utah | 9:12 a.m. April 27, 2008

If you think that this same thing hasn't happen to other families in other states you're just crazy. AZ has done that in the past but you never hear about it unless you're in a specific group. Get real. The FLDS have a voice and others don't. Look at the source of where the news is coming from. How do we know we are getting all of the facts. Don't be so quick to accept what is being reported as true facts. The press have lied in the past.

In Danger Of? | 9:22 a.m. April 27, 2008

Since when is it legal to remove an entire community because of the potential of "possible" abuse? If a Mormon Bishop or any other faith's clergy molests one of the young girls or boys in the congregation, and the parents continue to attend and worship with that faith, then would it be alright to remove the children from the entire congregation?
I can't imagine what these mothers are going through after this many weeks.Why is there not an Amber Alert issued for these missing children?
It is hard to believe this is the United States of America. Texas has a poor histiry with dealing fairly with religious peoples. I recently watched a documentary "Bible Camp".This polygamy lifestyle and worship is mild compared to what those folks do to children at young ages.
This will probably end up in the Supreme Court, but even that will be too little too late for these children. Why can't they go home with their mother's and remove all of the men from the area until this is sorted out on a case by case basis?Remember...A month for a child is a long long long time.A day in fear feelslike forever.

Correction | 9:35 a.m. April 27, 2008

The title of the documentary is 'Jesus Camp'. If these children were rescued from psychological abuse, there would not be enough foster homes to house them all.
If a State, let's say, had one in four girls sexually abused, and it could be attributed somewhat to the submissive nature of the mothers and in part to the authoritarian lifestyle which the children are raised under, or even if it was because of naive teachings, or what if that State "went too soft" on offenders; would it be just fine to swoop in and seize all of the children in a mass roundup. Of course not! The people of America would stand up and protect these Religions and there would be no tolerance for taking children from all. I am not saying this lifestyle is ideal. But these people are mothers who love there children very very much and deserve the same Constitutional rights as every one else.

Samuel | 9:44 a.m. April 27, 2008

***At least the children are now out of that dreadful compound.***

That's right. Out into foster care... where a high percentage of kids are known to be sexually and physically abused.

Anonymous | 9:54 a.m. April 27, 2008

They don't even seem concerned that they have lost these two little boys. It certainly calls their competence into question.

Ray | 9:55 a.m. April 27, 2008

Not to worry guys, I read where Judge Walthers told CPS that she was taking ultamate responsibility for these kids! I hope she is watching!!

wrz | 9:59 a.m. April 27, 2008

>>On what grounds did they remove infants? While the "threat" to older female children seems to be substantial, where is the threat to the babies?<< Kris in AL

The threat, as they seem to infer, is that these infants will grow up some day and be taught about their parents' religion.

Gerore | 10:01 a.m. April 27, 2008

>>And as long as we are discussing 'lost' children, where are all the teen BOYS?<<

They left the system. You should be thankful for that.

Floyd | 10:04 a.m. April 27, 2008

Today,Sunday 4/27 In The Washington Post. Is a story that should cause fear to any citizen of this country.
It says that even though there was NO actual abuse of any child at the FLDS compound, the state of Texas will prove that the belief system of the FLDS is abuse in and of itself.
This means Texas will attempt to declare a RELIGOUS group illegal.
What's next?? a state list of approved churches??
Is YOUR church on the list??
I don't support the belief's of the FLDS but I support the right to believe what ever they want as GUARANTEED by our Constitution. This has been to Court many times and the Constitution won every time.
The state admission of NO ABUSE found and the TRUE direction of the state should be apparent now. BUT all the people that blindly go on believing the state sponsored lies won't believe the truth.

Lilathe | 10:05 a.m. April 27, 2008

CPS is STILL trying to blame this on the FLDS. CPS took pictures, fingerprints and DNA from each and every child. They took the children away from their parents. How can it be the parents fault about names if CPS ITSELF took the pictures, names, fingerprints?

This is not the first time a child has been lost in CPS care. Do a little research. It took Florida CPS 8 months to even notice one baby was missing, Rilya was her name. She is still missing years later.
I can look up the exact number of "lost" children in CPS care at the moment. I will go try to find it.

Take off the blinders | 10:10 a.m. April 27, 2008

Another DesNews story as told from the FLDS perspective.

If it was anyone other than the FLDS making all these allegations against CPS, Iï¿½d surely believe them; but the FLDS havenï¿½t cooperated with identification and are quite evidently a bunch of accomplished liars.

Why does the DesNews seem to think that anything that comes out of their mouth is newsworthy?

The FLDS are trying to drum up a little ï¿½Short Creek Sympathy,ï¿½ and by the look of these posts most of Utah is falling for it. You people are the devil, according to them. Theyï¿½d just as soon ï¿½bleed the beastï¿½ and not have anything to do with you...that is, up until recently. They are manipulating you through the media, and many of you canï¿½t even see it.

Bleed the Beast? What a laugh! The Beast is Hemorrhaging in Utah!

Peter Falling Rock | 10:21 a.m. April 27, 2008

Susan in VA please do not insult my ancestors and compare this to what happened to the Indians. My ancestors were not raping their children. My ancestors were not cheating the welfare system. My children do not worship a false prophet. My ancestors did not teach hatred towards the Blacks. Stop being an apologist for child rape!

War In Jeffs | 10:25 a.m. April 27, 2008

Irony: People that allow a deranged leader to destroy families by kicking out the father and reassigning the wives and children to other men. Then these same people cry that their families are being destroyed when the government intervenes in their pervasive abuses against children.
Irony: People who allow for the expulsion of innocent young men at the command of a deranged leader yet fabricate a story of two lost boys. This cult cultivates the act of losing boys.

captive flds children dot org | 10:37 a.m. April 27, 2008

Van deusen says that they children were at risk for sexual abuse. Are you kidding? They are even more at risk in foster care. I am positive a 0-10 year old was not at risk for being married off to older man or what not, why rip them from their families and throw them into a whole different world? Talk about traumatic! I agree that the FLDS church has gone wrong somewhere but this cruelty to families against all constitutional rights is evil. Anybody supporting this must not be a good parent!

harsh thoughts | 10:42 a.m. April 27, 2008

These are harsh thoughts... if the parents would have cooperated and given only one name per child and one set of perents per child they would not be in this mess at all.
If the parent swould have protected their children from abuse in the first place they would still be at home.
The children are reported as unaccounted for not missing. So a boy and his brother named... hmmm... what was his name today? Was it David or was that the name he used last week? Perhaps they have all the children they just don't know which 2 boys the mother is looking for right now.

The child in the hospital is still in protective custody. Do you really expect you can call in and ask for a child's room # and her condition? You will be told there is no child listed by that name.

Hey | 10:45 a.m. April 27, 2008

Yeah now the children will be safe and sound. I knew a family yes even a "good family" that took in all kinds of foster children and adopted many of them. They had the respect of many in the community and church. It was found out later that the father was molesting them when found out he shot and killed himself. I think what has happened in Texas is absolutely horrible. They have gone too far! If we let them get away with this it will come back to haunt every one of us in this country! Mark my word! It affects all of us.

Endangered species | 10:47 a.m. April 27, 2008

These FLDS polygamy sites bring out all the whackos,and perverts. A real religious group of people I must say--NOT!!

I'm certain the boys are ok. They will find them.

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