Deseret News | Reader comments: Natural-gas vehicles hot in Utah where the fuel is cheap

Reader comments
Natural-gas vehicles hot in Utah where the fuel is cheap

Tomas | 3:54 a.m. April 27, 2008

Owned two of them since 1999. Paid for both with savings. Plus, I am not sending my gas money to the Middle East or big oil.

Bob G | 3:56 a.m. April 27, 2008

These car owners can be happy, for a while. Diesel used to be cheaper than gas too but look at it now. If California is charging more we can be assured that Utah is not far behind in raising the price of CNG to meet the cost of regular gas. It's all in the timing and demand that sets the price of fuels. It's a temporary pricing setup to get more demand in place then watch the bubble pop. Then the cost of gas to home users will increase accordingly with the demand for vehicles increases so there is no winners here except the gas companies, again. With no controls in place on what consumers can be charged for any fuels its all up to the petroleum industries to set the prices. By the time consumers put more vehicles on the roads to take advantage of cheaper CNG the price will start a doubling as gas has done. Petroleum being a product of our natural resources and a necessity to consumers, there should be more pricing controls placed on petroleum companies. Most of americas natural resources, lumber, precious metals, ores, coal, etc., have government controls so why not our oil?

sob | 7:08 a.m. April 27, 2008

mainly because only a small per cert of "our oil" doesn't have arabs, or iranians, or south americans or
middle causcus former russians living on it. why do you think we are in iraq.

Comments continue below

Plug ins will be safer bet | 7:28 a.m. April 27, 2008

Natural gas prices are destined to take off in Utah given Rocky Mountain Power's recent announcement that it will no longer build coal-fired power plants over the next decade. Instead, they will turn to wind and natural gas, which are a good combination -- when the wind isn't serving demand, natural gas peaker plants can make up the difference. While a good short-term solution to addressing the risks of coal and how carbon taxes may shape up in the coming decade, the problem is that natural gas demand will skyrocket as it is still used in home heating, heavy industry, and agriculture. Its use for more cars and electricity generation will simply make it more expensive. What's needed is a car that can use BOTH electricity and some other fossil fuel in the short-term to diversify fuel use. Plug-in hybrid cars are destined to serve that need so that people can leverage cheaper electricity on a charge up, or rely on gasoline (or natural gas, or whatever) for more extended trips. The increased demand for electricity is bound to create demand for excess capacity of coal-fired power at night or spark demand for wind power.

sssshhhhh | 7:29 a.m. April 27, 2008

Don't spoil it by telling everyone. The gas companies will raise their prices!

A Better Idea Perhaps | 9:23 a.m. April 27, 2008

One way we could keep natural gas fuel cheap in Utah and also make it cheaper in the rest of the nation would be for the US to use more nuclear power to make electricity.

Currently natural gas is used to make some electricity and to heat homes. Were inexpensive nuclear power to be more widely adopted, natural gas could be freed from having to make electricity and heat some homes.

This gas could then be used to power cars which would in turn free us from having to import foreign oil.

Tmoney | 9:30 a.m. April 27, 2008

I have to disagree with Bog G. While it is true that the CNG price would likley increase it shouldn't ever be as expensive as regular gasoline. Historicaly natural gas is priced at a 30% discount per/BTU compared to oil which is refined to create gasoline. Plus we have quite a bit of natural gas reseves in our own country being developed by American Petroleum companies. This is a great long term idea especially if LNG technology works. It's so much better than corn ethonol it's beyond description. Also Bob G. do you really think that petroleum companies control the prices I believe it's markets that control the prices. If oil companies could control the prices they probably wouldn't have suffered thru 10.00 oil in the 1990's.

Economist | 10:23 a.m. April 27, 2008

Bloggers, you need to understand reality. If demand increases but supply (or distribution) remains stable, prices rise. Demand typically outpaces the ability to bring distribution online, so if I were investing in natural gas futures I would be a happy girl right now.

Just like oil companies are not responsible for costs, companies like Questar are subject to market fluctuations too. They can, and oil companies do it extremely well, engage in arbitrage to wring out a few extra pennies of profit per unit. They evaluate every variable you can imagine to forecast price changes and targets, then make bets on the forecast. When they are right, and they usually are because people's consumption is fairly predictable, they can make the kind of profit that oil companies have seen lately. Gas companies have regulated subsidiaries that must stay within an acceptable profit range, but will have other subsidiaries that fall outside of regulation that will make a handsome profit for the holding corp even when the regulated subsidiary proclaims its regulated benevolence.

It is capitalism at its finest, and is a beautiful concept. The ones who don't like it are those who are mathematically challenged, which is most consumers.

Love my Civic! | 10:34 a.m. April 27, 2008

The article says that Honda CNG cars are only available in CA and NY but thats not true. We just bought a new CNG civic from Ken Garff Honda downtown. They are the only dealer in the state certified to sell them, but they ARE selling them! Prices will probably rise at some point, but for now we are loving our CNG Civic! It will definately take some time before the CNG gas prices could match those of current regular gas today. In the meantime, we're enjoying $3 fill-ups, using the carpool lane and free metered parking downtown! Oh yeah, and the 7K in tax credits will be pretty nice too.

Not for winter | 4:15 p.m. April 27, 2008

It's my understanding that natural gas cars are hard to start in the winter. Anyone know anything about this?

Bill | 4:52 p.m. April 27, 2008

When it is below 15 degrees, it wss harder to start my car, since I park it outside. However, it wouldn't be a problem for anyone who parked their car in an enclosed garage.

Steve | 5:09 p.m. April 27, 2008

I just spent several years in South America and was impressed with the number of dual fuel vehicles that are in use neither of which is electricty. Many cars are equipped to handle gasoline and propane. The later is available cheap in the larger cities. When traveling in areas where propane is not available a simple switch on the dash and they run on gasoline. They have a small propane tank in the back which gives them a good range around town.

MetricWrench | 8:01 p.m. April 27, 2008

Living in Fabulous Rock Springs Wyoming such as I do we are literally swimming in natural gas. This is a boom town because of all the increased exploration and drilling. New pipelines will soon come online that will make it very easy to move the stuff all over the country for very little cost. This will cause the price of natural gas to go up in Utah Wyoming and Colorado but it wont go up like diesel. Diesel has gone up dramitacally in the past few years because of new emissions laws and new refining processes. Natural gas burns cleaner than gasoline or diesel. Even if there was not much cost savings the thought of being self sufficient and not having to use fuel from places where the people want us dead is a great thing.

Anonymous | 8:25 p.m. April 27, 2008

I wish the article would have listed more places to get the conversion done.

Anonymous | 10:05 a.m. April 28, 2008

According to wikiinvest dot com, gas prices charged by Questar are government-regulated.

"As a gas utility, the company is subject to government regulation, including regulation on price, for instance. The company must sell energy on a rate schedule approved by government regulators, and, for instance, is only authorized to earn a return on equity just south of 12%."

According to this it seems to me that prices charged by Questar are more dependent on their production costs than the current going rate in the market for natural gas.

Why Not ? | 10:39 a.m. April 28, 2008

Benefits of cng vehicles:
1. Cheap fuel that will STAY cheap. (Not competing for with foreign middle men)
2. Clean fuel. (Lower emissions than the cleanest hybrid)
2. Foreign dependancy gone.
3. Avg. engine will last 500k + miles. (no carbon to degrade the lubricating oil in the oil pan.
4. Conversions could be done on all existing vehicles for a reasonable cost. (If the price gouging of tanks would calm down)
5. Convenience of filling up at home.

Why is this technology not more widely accepted?

Wait... I know why.
Auto manufactures (except Honda) don't like to sell vehicles that don't need replacing as often.
You corner gas station would loose out on your "big gulp" purchases if you left home with a full tank.
Our dealings with the middle east would have to stop. Somebody would stop getting their incentives.

Make your voice heard. Demand CNG alternatives!

Is CNG the alternative? | 2:45 p.m. April 28, 2008

I Believe it certainly is. I have recently been involved in this craze with helping a buddy of mine locate a good Natural Gas Truck for him. They are hard to find in good condition, and the people that are selling them are selling them for an arm and leg and spleen. I read that the only reason the domestic auto manufacturers were building them was they were receiving tax credits but that has all but stopped. How can we get the ball rolling on this thing to demand car manufacturers again build these cars. We definitely need to do something and this is certainly a viable and plentiful fuel supply for us in Utah as well as a few other states. It may be in the future that is a viable option for the whole US. Lets get this rolling. Ideas?

Kay V | 4:32 p.m. July 8, 2008

We are interested in converting a few of our vehicles to natural gas but we don't know where to go to get this done. Does anyone know where I can get more info on this???????

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.