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LDS Church announces plans for two new temples in Arizona
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Utah Transplant | 1:06 a.m. April 27, 2008
To Inquiring Mind,
I suggest you go to the Visitors Center on the grounds of the Mesa Temple. It is located at 101 South LeSueur, Mesa. Ask to speak to the director of the center. He should be able to help you understand the purpose of the temple and why the LDS Church continues to build temples around the world. Good luck in your search.
I suggest you go to the Visitors Center on the grounds of the Mesa Temple. It is located at 101 South LeSueur, Mesa. Ask to speak to the director of the center. He should be able to help you understand the purpose of the temple and why the LDS Church continues to build temples around the world. Good luck in your search.
so happy for Arizona | 1:28 a.m. April 27, 2008
Thank you, Grateful, for the stats.
As another point of clarification, Gilbert is long and narrow and borders Mesa on the north, Queen Creek on the SE, Chandler on the SW. To drive from one corner of Gilbert to the other takes about 30 minutes, then another 15 minutes into Mesa to the temple.
The stakes in the area of S. Gilbert/Queen Creek had 2 1/2 hour church for at least three or more years until this past year and often operated in wards of 600-700 people with upwards of five nurseries. The two stakes on the border of S. Gilbert and Queen Creek were told by headquarters over two years ago that they were the two "fastest growing stake[s] in the history of the Church". There are likely other neighboring stakes that also "set records" in Salt Lake. Most of the stakes in the area have split more times since that message.
From some areas of SE Gilbert you can stand in one spot and see 2-3 LDS church steeples from that spot.
While I am empathetic to the frustration of members from Tucson or the West Valley, I hope some people consider this information when comparing areas.
As another point of clarification, Gilbert is long and narrow and borders Mesa on the north, Queen Creek on the SE, Chandler on the SW. To drive from one corner of Gilbert to the other takes about 30 minutes, then another 15 minutes into Mesa to the temple.
The stakes in the area of S. Gilbert/Queen Creek had 2 1/2 hour church for at least three or more years until this past year and often operated in wards of 600-700 people with upwards of five nurseries. The two stakes on the border of S. Gilbert and Queen Creek were told by headquarters over two years ago that they were the two "fastest growing stake[s] in the history of the Church". There are likely other neighboring stakes that also "set records" in Salt Lake. Most of the stakes in the area have split more times since that message.
From some areas of SE Gilbert you can stand in one spot and see 2-3 LDS church steeples from that spot.
While I am empathetic to the frustration of members from Tucson or the West Valley, I hope some people consider this information when comparing areas.
Comments continue below
shawilli | 2:16 a.m. April 27, 2008
What a day of rejoicing this is !!! I am thrilled with the announcement of two
new temples for Arizona, and the glorious latter day work of the redemption of
the dead and the sealing of family members one to another goes on. I am certain
that more temples will be announced as the church continues to grow in the
state. I hope that the two new temples will help alleviate the crowded
conditions in the Mesa Temple and make the waits for sessions shorter. I wonder
if these will be little temples or large temples? I know that it of course does
not matter but it would be nice to have a large temple on the scale of the new
Rexburg Temple here in the Valley.
former missionary | 2:31 a.m. April 27, 2008
I happened to be visiting in the Gilbert/Mesa area when the announcement was
made, and I have to say it's exciting! I served in the Arizona Tempe
Mission, and worked in the stakes covering either direction from the temple site
(Gilbert San Tan and Gilbert Higley).
It may seem somewhat superfluous to have another temple only 30 minutes from the Mesa Temple (or less, depending what time of day you're driving), but the Mesa temple is currently one of the busiest temples outside of Utah, and since Gilbert and environs have a lot of younger families, I'm sure the new temple will also be well serviced. Way to go, Gilbert!!
(I also hope that announcements come for more temples, in Arizona and elsewhere.)
It may seem somewhat superfluous to have another temple only 30 minutes from the Mesa Temple (or less, depending what time of day you're driving), but the Mesa temple is currently one of the busiest temples outside of Utah, and since Gilbert and environs have a lot of younger families, I'm sure the new temple will also be well serviced. Way to go, Gilbert!!
(I also hope that announcements come for more temples, in Arizona and elsewhere.)
Thatcher Girl | 3:08 a.m. April 27, 2008
The residents of the Gila Valley have been told again and again by multiple
general authorities and apostles that when they become more righteous and lose
some of that pride, they would receive the temple that they have been praying
for for years on end. I say thank you to all of the Gila Valley residents that
took the counsel from the various brethren and became a more Christ-like people.
Now I am just super curious as to where the temple in the Gila Valley will be. There are several different areas where the church owns land and could very easily build on any of them....We'll just have to wait and see.
Now I am just super curious as to where the temple in the Gila Valley will be. There are several different areas where the church owns land and could very easily build on any of them....We'll just have to wait and see.
Saguaro Cactus | 4:46 a.m. April 27, 2008
We need a temple in Arizona City!
Aussie | 5:35 a.m. April 27, 2008
To Inquiring Mind
Great question on why we have temples in this dispensation of time.
In addition to suggestions so far, I recommend obtaining a copy of a DVD entitled "Between Heaven and Earth" that gives an excellent and enlightening response to your question by both Church members as well as clergy and scholars of other faiths.
You should be able to obtain a copy (less than $10) from a LDS visitors centre, distribution centre, local LDS meetinghouse or even try online at lds.org.
Best wishes in your search for answers.
Great question on why we have temples in this dispensation of time.
In addition to suggestions so far, I recommend obtaining a copy of a DVD entitled "Between Heaven and Earth" that gives an excellent and enlightening response to your question by both Church members as well as clergy and scholars of other faiths.
You should be able to obtain a copy (less than $10) from a LDS visitors centre, distribution centre, local LDS meetinghouse or even try online at lds.org.
Best wishes in your search for answers.
RE: Inquiring Mind | 7:01 a.m. April 27, 2008
TO:Inquiring Mind
Perhaps you have heard of Jewish temples?
Perhaps you have heard of Jewish temples?
To: Observer | 7:04 a.m. April 27, 2008
You would be flabbergasted at how much the Church spends on the poor. How much
are YOU spending on the poor??
SWCF from AZ | 7:25 a.m. April 27, 2008
For logistical purposes, to have a temple in west valley would have been nice
but the east valley and the southeast valley just has so many members. I bet
they put a full sized temple in the Gilbert area and a mini in the
Thatcher/Safford area. Revelation or not about location, once those doors open,
you need a healthy consistent supply of workers and patrons. I went to UT for
general conference and thought I'd slip in a Thursday morning session at
the Jordan River temple and I just about had to park in another zip code to find
a parking space. Then the next day I went to SLC temple and it was jammed.
There were 250+ in both sessions and people just about sitting on others laps.
Jordan River had 15 minute sessions of 250+ for hours. So neat and I understood
why they could easily fill another temple in the southwest Salt Lake Valley.
Gilbert has one of the highest densities of members for a larger sized city in
AZ. I am happy for the faithful members who have been steady for generations!
Mason | 7:40 a.m. April 27, 2008
That is good news and I knew would come, sooner or later. The church is growing
with all the immigrants from other states. I just hope they build grand and
elegant temples in both cities!! To be honest, I always thought the Mesa Temple
was so plain and unattractive, I live right next to it, but it has served its
purpose.
To: Inquiring Mind | 8:40 a.m. April 27, 2008
eWell,
Tell ya what. Take some time and read the Bible a little more deep - so that your understanding of the scriptures becomes clear as the sun at noon day.
After you have taken this approach, and inquired of the Father in the name of the Savior Jesus Christ, you will begin to become enlightened in these areas. Until you pursue this approach, you will remain in the dark as pertaining to things of a higher order.
The scriptures are repleat with "those who seek further light shall be enlightened, until the perfect day, when they know even as they are Known by the Father and the Son."
While the opposit is true as well. Those who seek for sarcasm's sake, are no more entitled to revelation than the man who said, " I will believe if I see the risen Lord, but if I do not see him, I will not believe the revelation he gave, that he would rise from the dead."
However, to further enlighten those who are seeking and not for a sign: I tell you this. The Lord was throwing money changers out of His Temple, not closing it.
Tell ya what. Take some time and read the Bible a little more deep - so that your understanding of the scriptures becomes clear as the sun at noon day.
After you have taken this approach, and inquired of the Father in the name of the Savior Jesus Christ, you will begin to become enlightened in these areas. Until you pursue this approach, you will remain in the dark as pertaining to things of a higher order.
The scriptures are repleat with "those who seek further light shall be enlightened, until the perfect day, when they know even as they are Known by the Father and the Son."
While the opposit is true as well. Those who seek for sarcasm's sake, are no more entitled to revelation than the man who said, " I will believe if I see the risen Lord, but if I do not see him, I will not believe the revelation he gave, that he would rise from the dead."
However, to further enlighten those who are seeking and not for a sign: I tell you this. The Lord was throwing money changers out of His Temple, not closing it.
Chance | 8:57 a.m. April 27, 2008
People, let us not forget....this church is owned and operated by Jesus Christ,
the creator of the Heavens and the Earth. If he decides to place a Temple in
Gilbert, he has his reasons. It is very likely those reasons do not coincide
with ours. I am grateful for the new Temples.
Chad | 9:01 a.m. April 27, 2008
It makes perfect sense that in order to ease the load of patrons in the Mesa
Temple, you will need to accomodate the area with the heavest concentration of
patrons. I think that probably is the two areas receiving the two new ones.
Logistically, it is the smartest approach. I think it will ease Temple traffic
by at least 1/3.
John D. | 9:30 a.m. April 27, 2008
There are only 5 stakes in Tucson. Hardly enough temple recommend holders to yet
justify a Temple. Those on the NW and W side of Tucson still find it easy to go
to Mesa and Gilbert (future). Those on the E and SE of Tucson will find it
easier to go to the Gila Valley Temple (future). Great for those who really need
one closer to home.
How wonderful | 9:44 a.m. April 27, 2008
Having been raised in the Gila Valley,and now raising my children here, how
blessed we are! I am so excited for our valley.
Ken | 11:01 a.m. April 27, 2008
>>But in Gilbert,They need one in the west valley,thats where the growth
is<<
Ummm, have you been to South Gilbert/Queen Creek/Johnson Ranch in the last 10 years???
Ummm, have you been to South Gilbert/Queen Creek/Johnson Ranch in the last 10 years???
Nonnie | 11:01 a.m. April 27, 2008
Whooh, Whooh, we're have'n a temple in Gilbert! Yeah baby! So much
more close, I work almost everyday and go to school at night now I'll be
able go so more often now! Yeah!
Fredd | 11:07 a.m. April 27, 2008
You guys really believe god personally picks temple sites? Then why discuss
stats? Why keep stats at all? God knows all, he doesn't need ward clerks.
Number of Stakes? | 12:12 p.m. April 27, 2008
JohnD, going by the number of stakes isn't necessarily the best criteria.
When the Nauvoo Temple was rebuilt on the small-temple plan, there were only 5
stakes assigned to the temple district--and one (the Iowa City stake) was
brand-new. The same 5 stakes still comprise that temple district.
A HYPOTHETICAL Tucson Temple district would probably include at least the 5 stakes in Tucson as well as the Sierra Vista stake, and maybe some other areas. Those members could certainly support a small temple--IF they desire it and will support it, as shown through continued and increased temple attendance. Attendance and faithfulness are more important criteria than the actual number of stakes.
Yet that's only speculation at this point. The Lord's will is the most important factor here, of course--and that's the most important thing we all need to accept.
A HYPOTHETICAL Tucson Temple district would probably include at least the 5 stakes in Tucson as well as the Sierra Vista stake, and maybe some other areas. Those members could certainly support a small temple--IF they desire it and will support it, as shown through continued and increased temple attendance. Attendance and faithfulness are more important criteria than the actual number of stakes.
Yet that's only speculation at this point. The Lord's will is the most important factor here, of course--and that's the most important thing we all need to accept.
Charles Bailey | 3:02 p.m. April 27, 2008
The announcement of the new temples is joyful news, but I live in NW Tucson and
was wondering if the new temple in Gilbert would be much closer for us. A
previous post said that land had been donated near the intersection of Pecos and
Greenfield roads. A quick check of Google maps gives an estimated 103 miles and
1:33 drive time from my house to that spot. From my house to the Mesa temple is
106 miles and an estimated 1:38 drive time. So, it's about a toss up for
those of us in Tucson. Considering how congested I-10 is getting between Tucson
and Phoenix, those drive times are a little optimistic.
Dr H | 3:14 p.m. April 27, 2008
I live in Gilbert. The Church here has the same problems that exist in any area
where there are large concentrations of Mormons, especially when you add a large
concentration of wealth. However, I do know that church attendance here is
extremely high, and large amounts of tithes and offerings are given as well.
Perhaps this is one reason for the temple being built here. Of course these are
not necessarily the best measures of faithfulness of an LDS community, but they
are among the simplest ways for a community to demonstrate its commitment.
Sandra | 3:22 p.m. April 27, 2008
Inquiring Mind,
Aussie's recommendation of "Between Heaven and Earth" is fabulous. The video will give you a lot of information on the theology of temple worship, which sounds like what you are looking for you. It not only shows the LDS perspective, but those of other theologians--from Harvard Divinity School, Harvard's Ancient History Department and also from NYU's Director of Judaic Studies.
Visiting a temple visitors' center is another great idea. They talk to people about temples everyday and could give you more complete answers. In fact, you could probably view this video there. Also after a temple is built, it is open to the public for tours. If you are close, you may want to look into that. They are beautiful!
Aussie's recommendation of "Between Heaven and Earth" is fabulous. The video will give you a lot of information on the theology of temple worship, which sounds like what you are looking for you. It not only shows the LDS perspective, but those of other theologians--from Harvard Divinity School, Harvard's Ancient History Department and also from NYU's Director of Judaic Studies.
Visiting a temple visitors' center is another great idea. They talk to people about temples everyday and could give you more complete answers. In fact, you could probably view this video there. Also after a temple is built, it is open to the public for tours. If you are close, you may want to look into that. They are beautiful!
From Gila Valley | 3:59 p.m. April 27, 2008
Helena Roseberry was my g-g-g-g grandmother. I only know her through her
history, but what a legacy! The location of temples *are* decided by the
members. It's simple, they are built where they are most needed.
Bob | 4:07 p.m. April 27, 2008
I live in North Phoenix. I should be overjoyed at the announcement of not one,
but two new temples for Arizona; however, I am extremely disappointed,
frustrated and upset. We have a relatively high concentration of members in
North and West Phoenix. It takes us a good chunk of our day to travel to Mesa
for a temple visit. We would like to be able to go more often, but with the
price of gas and the time involved, such trips are few and far between. I guess
the Saints in our area just don't have the wealth of the Saints in Gilbert
(or a rich donor). Now we must wait who, knows how long, until the Mesa temple
is unable to handle the demand. Quite frankly, I have never seen the Mesa
temple as busy as the Utah temples. The Gila Valley Temple is a shocker
considering the extremely small population of the area--I guess Pres. Kimball
was from the area--so it will be another landmark temple. No offense to people
who live there or their forefathers, but historically speaking, Gila Valley is
no Palmyra or Nauvoo.
Dr H | 4:37 p.m. April 27, 2008
To Inquiring Mind:
Thanks for such a sincere and polite question. I have been an avid student of the Bible for many years. While Jesus' death certainly put an end to animal sacrifice, he did not do away with temple worship. Here are some examples from the Bible of temple worship continuing among Jesus' followers after his resurrection and ascension:
Luke 24:51-53; Acts 2:43-47 (disciples worship in temple following ascension)
Acts 3:1-3 (Peter and John go to worship in temple)
Acts 21:26; Acts 22:12-17 (Paul worships in temple)
Acts 24:10-12, 17-18 (Paul worships in temple)
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (prophecy of a future temple of God to be defiled by the "son of perdition")
Apocryphal literature suggests that Jehovah-centered temple worship originated long before Moses, and thus was not meant to disappear when the law of Moses was fulfilled. Paul worshiped at the temple even after teaching that the law of Moses had ended. Contrary to the Jews' accusation, Jesus did not destroy the temple. The Romans did. Shortly thereafter the last of the apostles were killed off.
The Lord has sent new apostles in our day, and with them, new temples in which we prepare to meet the Savior.
Thanks for such a sincere and polite question. I have been an avid student of the Bible for many years. While Jesus' death certainly put an end to animal sacrifice, he did not do away with temple worship. Here are some examples from the Bible of temple worship continuing among Jesus' followers after his resurrection and ascension:
Luke 24:51-53; Acts 2:43-47 (disciples worship in temple following ascension)
Acts 3:1-3 (Peter and John go to worship in temple)
Acts 21:26; Acts 22:12-17 (Paul worships in temple)
Acts 24:10-12, 17-18 (Paul worships in temple)
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (prophecy of a future temple of God to be defiled by the "son of perdition")
Apocryphal literature suggests that Jehovah-centered temple worship originated long before Moses, and thus was not meant to disappear when the law of Moses was fulfilled. Paul worshiped at the temple even after teaching that the law of Moses had ended. Contrary to the Jews' accusation, Jesus did not destroy the temple. The Romans did. Shortly thereafter the last of the apostles were killed off.
The Lord has sent new apostles in our day, and with them, new temples in which we prepare to meet the Savior.
Glendale | 4:49 p.m. April 27, 2008
Where is the Gila Valley? I know where Gilbert is but have no clue where the
G.Valley is. Along the Gila River somewhere?
Don from Gilbert | 4:56 p.m. April 27, 2008
There is no second guessing the Lord. The Lord knows where the next Temple is
needed. Our place is to do the work. The Lords needs ordinance workers to
staff the Temple. Those who are willing need to see their Bishop. There are
many blessings associated with doing Temple work. Service is what we are about.
When we do Temple work we are transmitting the Power of the Priesthood on the
other side of the veil thus decreasing the advasaries power.
To inquiring and answerers 2 | 5:36 p.m. April 27, 2008
Beyond personal instructions and covenant-making regarding the topics in my
previous post, temples are used to reinforce the covenants the faithful make.
They do this by going through their sacred protocols for their kindred dead.
Repetition hopefully deepens and renews the personal experience for qualified
members as from their perspective they are able to offer the same opportunity to
those of their departed ancestors who weren't able to attend a temple in
this life. This speaks to their hopeful desire to live the eternities with all
members of their families.
Any thoughtful person can make covenants as binding and sacred to themselves and God or whomever they covenant with such as a spouse, as can be made in LDS temples. In my experience, few people even ponder making such significant commitments in their lives, let alone actually doing it. The LDS practice of covenanting with God and their spouses/families hopefully results in increased devotion and service in their homes, communities and communities-at-large. It seems a noble purpose to encourage the best from its members.
Qualification may be necessary as making the specified covenants are likely more successful among those already committed to the point of being "worthy."
Any thoughtful person can make covenants as binding and sacred to themselves and God or whomever they covenant with such as a spouse, as can be made in LDS temples. In my experience, few people even ponder making such significant commitments in their lives, let alone actually doing it. The LDS practice of covenanting with God and their spouses/families hopefully results in increased devotion and service in their homes, communities and communities-at-large. It seems a noble purpose to encourage the best from its members.
Qualification may be necessary as making the specified covenants are likely more successful among those already committed to the point of being "worthy."
Glendale as well | 5:45 p.m. April 27, 2008
To Glendale,
The Gila Valley includes Pima, Thatcher,Safford and a few other small towns along the New Mexico border south of the White Mountains. An area settled by LDS folks.
The Gila Valley includes Pima, Thatcher,Safford and a few other small towns along the New Mexico border south of the White Mountains. An area settled by LDS folks.
To inquiring and answerers 3 | 5:57 p.m. April 27, 2008
A thought or two from my perspective...
The covenants made in LDS temples during the performance of ordinances including baptism and sealings are accomplished by the use of their priesthood and witnessed by volunteer workers. (The lovely, retired people who fill their days with service to their church and God.) I am sure these two components serve to strengthen the commitment of those making the covenants to honor them. It has been my observation, however, that many of the young LDS, 19-early 20s, who attend the temple before missions and for marrige, make the covenants more as a way to get to the "main event" of mission or marriage without considering adequately the sacredness of the covenants. I have seen men and women by the score, who in their daily lives have made private covenants with each other and with God, who walk faithful to them with more seriousness than the younglings of the LDS faith as witnessed by their divorce and disaffection rate.
It seems a disservice to "institutionalize" covenant-making. Seems individuals would be better served by giving more than passing mention to the notion that each person can draw closest to their God through personal covenant-making.
The covenants made in LDS temples during the performance of ordinances including baptism and sealings are accomplished by the use of their priesthood and witnessed by volunteer workers. (The lovely, retired people who fill their days with service to their church and God.) I am sure these two components serve to strengthen the commitment of those making the covenants to honor them. It has been my observation, however, that many of the young LDS, 19-early 20s, who attend the temple before missions and for marrige, make the covenants more as a way to get to the "main event" of mission or marriage without considering adequately the sacredness of the covenants. I have seen men and women by the score, who in their daily lives have made private covenants with each other and with God, who walk faithful to them with more seriousness than the younglings of the LDS faith as witnessed by their divorce and disaffection rate.
It seems a disservice to "institutionalize" covenant-making. Seems individuals would be better served by giving more than passing mention to the notion that each person can draw closest to their God through personal covenant-making.
Desert Rat | 6:25 p.m. April 27, 2008
The Gila Valley is located along the Gila River about 40 miles from the New
Mexico state line. It's communities of Safford, Thatcher and Pima sit at
the foot of the majestic Mt. Graham. To reach the Gila Valley from Phoenix,
take US 60 east to Globe then continue east on US 70. The trip takes approx. 3
hrs.
ThatcherRes | 6:46 p.m. April 27, 2008
The Gila Valley is in Southeastern Arizona. Take US 60 to Globe, then US 70 east
to Safford. Takes about 2 1/2-3 hours depending upon traffic, weather, etc.
Inquiring Mind | 6:52 p.m. April 27, 2008
MAC|10:54p.m., Thanks for responding kindly. You have added
complexity�marriages in the temple? Can you show me in the
Bible where marriages were performed in ancient temples?
JohnL|11:11p.m., What �ordinances� are done in the LDS temple? Ancient temples were built for the purpose of sacrifice. Jesus did away with sacrifice. Hence, no need for temples. I�m not sure why you made the vindictive comment that those who associate the LDS with the FLDS �choose to remain ignorant and attach the church whenever there is negative publicity towards these such religions.� I hope you don�t think that I am such an awful person. Ouch.
12:30a.m., Luke12:53 is interesting. Thanks. It does not show that temple sacrifice continued. The disciples misunderstood. Even Peter wanted to build �tabernacles� on the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus corrected him (Luke9:33-Peter �didn�t know what he was talking about�).
Aussie, and UtahTransplant, Thank you. I will look into these.
eWell (To: Inquiring Mind | 8:40 a.m.), why the rudeness?
If any of you would please respond specifically to the scriptures I cited. If these scriptures don�t mean that Jesus ended temples, then I need help understanding their true meaning. Again, I ask, please don�t attack.
JohnL|11:11p.m., What �ordinances� are done in the LDS temple? Ancient temples were built for the purpose of sacrifice. Jesus did away with sacrifice. Hence, no need for temples. I�m not sure why you made the vindictive comment that those who associate the LDS with the FLDS �choose to remain ignorant and attach the church whenever there is negative publicity towards these such religions.� I hope you don�t think that I am such an awful person. Ouch.
12:30a.m., Luke12:53 is interesting. Thanks. It does not show that temple sacrifice continued. The disciples misunderstood. Even Peter wanted to build �tabernacles� on the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus corrected him (Luke9:33-Peter �didn�t know what he was talking about�).
Aussie, and UtahTransplant, Thank you. I will look into these.
eWell (To: Inquiring Mind | 8:40 a.m.), why the rudeness?
If any of you would please respond specifically to the scriptures I cited. If these scriptures don�t mean that Jesus ended temples, then I need help understanding their true meaning. Again, I ask, please don�t attack.
ldslady | 6:56 p.m. April 27, 2008
For those upset about the temple in Gilbert, are you aware that the LARGEST
Multi-stake meeting in the HISTORY of the church was held in Queen Creek just a
couple of months ago to split 3 stakes into 5? There is a lot of growth in the
east valley as many families are leaving Mesa and moving to this area. I live
in this area and can testify to the devotion of the members in this area. There
are complex calculations made by the church to determine where temples are
placed. Tithing comes into play along with temple attendance by members of
stakes. Not to be rude here, but if you want a temple in Peoria or in the west
valley, the best way to get it is to increase temple attendance in your area and
pay your tithing.
On another note, we were promised by Elder Eyring (at the time) at our stake conference that this area would flourish and be a refuge and a place that people would flock to. We are seeing the beginnings of this. This is a special area.
On another note, we were promised by Elder Eyring (at the time) at our stake conference that this area would flourish and be a refuge and a place that people would flock to. We are seeing the beginnings of this. This is a special area.
Inquiring Mind | 7:42 p.m. April 27, 2008
Dr H.
Thank you for responding so thoughtfully. As you know, I see things through a different lens, so I beg your patience with my perspective.
It seems to me the verses you cite were after Jesus� ascension and prior to Peter�s revelation in Acts 10-11. From the crucifixion, Jesus' followers were confused and continued in a number of Jewish practices because they did not understand yet. They struggled with the question of whether to continue the Jewish feasts and practices, and whether proselytes needed to become Jewish first, and then become Christian after that.
Paul himself taught that people did not have to be circumcised, celebrate Passover, sacrifice in the temple, and all the other Jewish ceremonies and rites by which they became �clean�. Instead they were clean through Christ. The revelation to Peter clearly taught that the Jewish practices had been done away in Christ: �Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. (Acts10:28). Paul used his "dual citizenship" to preach, not as an adherent.
Thank you for responding so thoughtfully. As you know, I see things through a different lens, so I beg your patience with my perspective.
It seems to me the verses you cite were after Jesus� ascension and prior to Peter�s revelation in Acts 10-11. From the crucifixion, Jesus' followers were confused and continued in a number of Jewish practices because they did not understand yet. They struggled with the question of whether to continue the Jewish feasts and practices, and whether proselytes needed to become Jewish first, and then become Christian after that.
Paul himself taught that people did not have to be circumcised, celebrate Passover, sacrifice in the temple, and all the other Jewish ceremonies and rites by which they became �clean�. Instead they were clean through Christ. The revelation to Peter clearly taught that the Jewish practices had been done away in Christ: �Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. (Acts10:28). Paul used his "dual citizenship" to preach, not as an adherent.
Anonymous | 8:14 p.m. April 27, 2008
Is this really news? If there is ever to be any sense of normalcy with this
paper then I would suspect it would start with not printing these articles or
relationships to articles.
I enjoy reading the paper online but would not want to pay to indulge myself into mormonism to this
extent.
I enjoy reading the paper online but would not want to pay to indulge myself into mormonism to this
extent.
Anonymous | 8:20 p.m. April 27, 2008
I am so proud. Gila River of today sounds like the Jordon River of yesteryear.
We indeed are proud here in the valley to serve the prophet. I hope we can bring
a little more light on the poor of the west valley and mexicans in showing the
spirt in AZ and hopfully more temples will arrise.
To JR again | 8:31 p.m. April 27, 2008
yes I have been a clerk, ward and stake, for many years. There are NO records
kept of who attended the temple PRIOR to the barcodes now on them. It was
impossible.
As for ward and stake sessions, unless the stake or ward actually requests a meeting in the chapel, the temple has NO CLUE that a ward or stake might be having a temple session. In my current ward and stake, we have temple days, that are just made up from time to time.
Not to quibble with you any further, but actually full-tithe payers has more to do with it than anything.
There are NO records...if you don't believe me, then go as the temple, any temple, for ward and stake attendance figures from 2005-2007.
There AREN'T any.... I'm disappointed that some much incorrect information is passed through these channels....
As for ward and stake sessions, unless the stake or ward actually requests a meeting in the chapel, the temple has NO CLUE that a ward or stake might be having a temple session. In my current ward and stake, we have temple days, that are just made up from time to time.
Not to quibble with you any further, but actually full-tithe payers has more to do with it than anything.
There are NO records...if you don't believe me, then go as the temple, any temple, for ward and stake attendance figures from 2005-2007.
There AREN'T any.... I'm disappointed that some much incorrect information is passed through these channels....
AZ Mormon Native | 8:33 p.m. April 27, 2008
Based on numbers I am a little bit angry. This is based on tithing and nothing
more! I guess it is true that the rich will just rich and the LDS church is just
following suite. I am disappointed as I thing others deserved but after all it
is indeed a business and we must keep our largest contributors in check.
Dear Bob | 8:49 p.m. April 27, 2008
Are you serious with your post about wealth or a large donation??? You need to
go talk to your bishop so you can get an understanding of these issues. I
can't believe that you even posted something so outrageous and unbelievable
incorrect!
BTW, I lived in the NW Phoenix valley for 4 years and I"m sorry to say that you don't have the membership numbers to come close to south Gilbert/QueenCreek/Chandler. It's not even close.
However, I do understand the time it takes to get to Mesa. It was definitely something that had to be planned. Since I grew up 4 blocks from the Mesa Temple, it seemed like it took forever to get there. But we realized, as it is with many consistent trips, the more you traveled it, the shorter it seemed to take.
BTW, I lived in the NW Phoenix valley for 4 years and I"m sorry to say that you don't have the membership numbers to come close to south Gilbert/QueenCreek/Chandler. It's not even close.
However, I do understand the time it takes to get to Mesa. It was definitely something that had to be planned. Since I grew up 4 blocks from the Mesa Temple, it seemed like it took forever to get there. But we realized, as it is with many consistent trips, the more you traveled it, the shorter it seemed to take.
Former Gila Valley Resident | 9:00 p.m. April 27, 2008
To Bob,
I'm extremely disappointed, frustrated, and upset with you, and those that are complaining about new temples being built. I have lived in the Gila Valley and in other remote places, including Fairbanks, Alaska, where I had to travel a minimum of three hours and six to seven hours to get to the temple. I find it a true measure of your commitment and faith, not only by your actions, but your attitude about temple attendance. Please, don't be jealous and spiteful to those who will benefit from a temple being close by just because you feel it should have happened to you.
I'm extremely disappointed, frustrated, and upset with you, and those that are complaining about new temples being built. I have lived in the Gila Valley and in other remote places, including Fairbanks, Alaska, where I had to travel a minimum of three hours and six to seven hours to get to the temple. I find it a true measure of your commitment and faith, not only by your actions, but your attitude about temple attendance. Please, don't be jealous and spiteful to those who will benefit from a temple being close by just because you feel it should have happened to you.
Jonny | 9:29 p.m. April 27, 2008
I am from Show Low, Arizona
We were very excited and thrilled several years ago when they announced the much needed temple in Snowflake. Since then all of the stakes in the close area have all grown, and I think they even made a new stake (if I am not mistaken).
The work is truly growing. The Gila Valley Temple will be a great blessing to those who live there and the LDS students who are attending EAC. I am excited also about the Gilbert Temple, I have an uncle that lives there and the area has grown dramatically, Queen Creek has really shot off like a wild fire. This is great stuff and I am looking forward to seeing more temples in Arizona as the work continues to grow.
We were very excited and thrilled several years ago when they announced the much needed temple in Snowflake. Since then all of the stakes in the close area have all grown, and I think they even made a new stake (if I am not mistaken).
The work is truly growing. The Gila Valley Temple will be a great blessing to those who live there and the LDS students who are attending EAC. I am excited also about the Gilbert Temple, I have an uncle that lives there and the area has grown dramatically, Queen Creek has really shot off like a wild fire. This is great stuff and I am looking forward to seeing more temples in Arizona as the work continues to grow.
RE: inquiring minds | 9:41 p.m. April 27, 2008
First, let�s note that the passage in 1 Samuel 15:22 really
doesn�t say that God doesn�t want
sacrifice, only that obedience to God is more important than offering animal
sacrifice. The passage to which Jesus referred is not the one from Samuel, but
the one from Hosea 6:6, �For I desired mercy, and not
sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt
offerings,� which was uttered some three centuries after
the time of Samuel. Ironically, the words uttered by Samuel to Saul PREDATE the
building of Solomon�s temple in Jerusalem, so if Samuel
meant that the Lord did not want sacrifice, it makes little sense that he would
then command the building of the temple a generation later. In 1 Chronicles
28:19-20, we read that God gave David the
�pattern� of the temple
�in writing by his hand,� which David
then passed on to his son Solomon, who built the temple. The passage in
Jeremiah 7 only says that, if the people continue in wickedness, the Lord will
remove them from their land and their temple. It�s not a
general statement about the value of the temple. I will continue on a following
post titled 'inquiring minds.
Ryan in Southwest Florida | 9:41 p.m. April 27, 2008
It's so wonderful that 2 temples are being built in Arizona!
It�s definitely NOT a blast against Tucson or West Valley.
Temples are being built in areas where high population of members exists. It is
well known that Gilbert is highly populated by members of the Church. Be happy
that there is another temple in Arizona being built. At the rate of the
Church's temple announcements, soon most major cities may have (possibly?)
several temples. My suggestion, increase missionary work in your area &
membership retention. Ultimately the Lord is the one who decides where His
temples are to be built...NOT Salt Lake City. Why feel left out or ignored?
That's not what the temple work is about. I live in Southwestern Florida
where I must drive 4 hours to attend the Orlando Temple. And if closed for
cleaning, I have to drive 10-12 hours to Altlanta. Be happy that you live as
close as you do...and soon to have a second one nearby...be happy you live in
this day & age when temples are being built faster & are available to
more individuals for this sacred work! We are happy for you, Gilbert & Gila
Valley!!
RE: Inquiring Minds | 9:48 p.m. April 27, 2008
It is simply not true that �John2:21 clearly says that the
temple that will replace the stone temple is Christ�s
body.� Christ was talking about how if the temple (in this
case meaning his body, not the stone temple, as the Jews misunderstood it) were
to be destroyed, he would raise it up in three days. He was speaking of his
resurrection, not of his body replacing the stone temple. As for Stephen, the
words uttered in Acts 6:14 were those of the �false
witnesses� brought against him (verse 13). It was the same
accusation leveled against Christ by false witnesses (Matthew 26:60-61; Mark
14:s57-58; cf. Matthew 27:40; Mark 15:29). To be continued again..........
RE: Inquiring Minds again | 9:52 p.m. April 27, 2008
The other passage from Stephen�s teachings has also been
taken completely out of context. Let�s quote it, beginning
with verse 47: �BUT SOLOMON BUILT HIM AN HOUSE. Howbeit
the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me?
saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these
things?� (Acts 7:47-50). The last two verses quote Isaiah
66:1-2, uttered by the prophet while the temple of Solomon still stood. This is
the same Isaiah who wrote, �In the year that king Uzziah
died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his
train filled the temple� (Isaiah 6:1), the same Isaiah who
prophesied that, after its destruction [by the Babylonians], the Lord would
raise up [the Persian king] Cyrus to rebuild the temple (Isaiah 44:28). Sorry,
the 200 word limit cannot contain this entire explaination...so, continued
again........
RE: Inquiring Minds.... | 9:54 p.m. April 27, 2008
Stephen�s words reflect those uttered by Solomon at the
time he dedicated the first temple in Jerusalem: �But will
God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot
contain thee; how much less this house that I have
builded?� (1 Kings 8:27). BTW, Stephen was recounting the
history of ancient Israel, which is why the temple of Solomon came up. And what
are we to think of the latter-day temple that Ezekiel saw in vision and
described in such detail (Ezekiel 40-48)? His description of the angel measuring
the temple is reminiscent of the later vision of the apostle John, who saw an
angel measuring the temple in the New Jerusalem sent down from heaven
(Revelation 11:1-2). Despite this, Revelation 21:22, describing that city, says,
�And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and
the Lamb are the temple of it.� Even so, John included a
number of references to the heavenly temple (Revelation 3:12; 7:15; 11:19;
14:15, 17; 15:5-8; 16:1, 17). Though heaven is said in some passages to be the
throne of God, in others, his throne is said to be �in
heaven� (Psalm 11:4). Continued....
RE: Inquiring Minds........ | 9:59 p.m. April 27, 2008
Those who believe that temples were no longer to be used following the death of
Christ sometimes cite the passages about the veil of the temple being rent when
the Savior died on the cross (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark 15:37-38; Luke 23:45-46).
But none of those passages indicate that temples no longer were valid. Moreover,
Christ�s apostles and other disciples continued to go to
the temple to pray. Luke wrote that, following the ascension of Christ, his
apostles �returned to Jerusalem with great joy: And were
continually in the temple, praising and blessing God� (Luke
24:52). He also wrote �And they, continuing daily with one
accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat
with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all
the people� (Acts 2:46-47). We later find Peter and John
going �into the temple at the hour of
prayer� and healing a beggar (Acts 3:1).
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Tucson is know to much of the country as being a non-conservative town. Tucson is not know for being a strong LDS community. Gila Valley (home of President Kimball) and Gilbert (more Mormons than 10 states combined). So let's swallow our pride, Tucson, and thank the Lord that when we do go to one of the temples they won't be as crowded.