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Last of the FLDS kids removed from the coliseum, FLDS spokesman lashes out
92 comments | Read story
Denise | 9:38 a.m. April 25, 2008
As much as I would like to see the FLDS group straightened out, I do not,
repeat...do not believe it is in the best interest of anyone to seperate any of
the children from their mothers.
lumin | 9:48 a.m. April 25, 2008
Here's the question:
Is it justifiable to punish all of the innocent to save a few of the abused?
Is it justifiable to punish all of the innocent to save a few of the abused?
Sugar Momma | 10:06 a.m. April 25, 2008
I'm so glad they're at least letting the nursing mothers stay with
their babies. I personally would have a cardiac if someone took my children
away from me, especially since CPS doesn't have the greatest reputation.
But I think it takes something this dramatic for the women in that sect to stand up to the megolomaniacs that run it. I think if pushed in a corner, most of the women will choose their children over their pedophile nazi prophet. I hope.
But I think it takes something this dramatic for the women in that sect to stand up to the megolomaniacs that run it. I think if pushed in a corner, most of the women will choose their children over their pedophile nazi prophet. I hope.
Comments continue below
Archaea Cougarguard | 10:12 a.m. April 25, 2008
This short term pain is necessary in order to break a long and tragic cycle of
abuse to children and women alike. I am amazed at the lack of understanding of
the devasting consequences of the polygamous lifestyle. The number of practicing
polygamist families is growing geometrically and must be stopped. Calm down and
look at the big picture. Better to stop the cycle now than to face a larger
problem in five years.
Children First | 10:36 a.m. April 25, 2008
I believe these children must be taken to a safe place where they can begin a
new life before they deal with the women and men involved. Giving these
children back to their mothers now is going to continue the horrible cycle of
abuse. They will send these children to other states and compounds now that
they know the authorities are serious.
Any mother no matter the religion or state is just as guilty if not more as the abuser if she stands by and allows abuse of any kind to happen to her child. Saying they don't know it is happening is a lie. When their new "sister wife" arrives and is under legal age, she has a responsibility to report it and stop it. That is what a mother does to protect her child.
These mothers need to be educated as to what their rights AND responsibilities are. They scream about their rights everytime you see anything. Rights come with responsibilities!! They need to learn how to live abuse free lives before they can protect these children. If they want them back so badly they should start working towards pressing charges on the abusers and cooperating with authorities.
Any mother no matter the religion or state is just as guilty if not more as the abuser if she stands by and allows abuse of any kind to happen to her child. Saying they don't know it is happening is a lie. When their new "sister wife" arrives and is under legal age, she has a responsibility to report it and stop it. That is what a mother does to protect her child.
These mothers need to be educated as to what their rights AND responsibilities are. They scream about their rights everytime you see anything. Rights come with responsibilities!! They need to learn how to live abuse free lives before they can protect these children. If they want them back so badly they should start working towards pressing charges on the abusers and cooperating with authorities.
Anonymous | 11:06 a.m. April 25, 2008
To those people who think this is going to stop polygamist- have you thought its
going to have the opposite effect.
Most likely as a result of this, there will be a Federal decision declaring anti-polygamy laws unconsitutional.
Most of kids will also be eventually returned - their fears and distrust of the outside confirmed. This will end up strengthing this culture - not destroying it.
Most likely as a result of this, there will be a Federal decision declaring anti-polygamy laws unconsitutional.
Most of kids will also be eventually returned - their fears and distrust of the outside confirmed. This will end up strengthing this culture - not destroying it.
Motherlylove | 11:09 a.m. April 25, 2008
I think that one aspect of the abuse at YFZ ranch has not been addressed much in
the media. It is fine for the members of FLDS to say they are free to leave
anytime and that they have all the choices that anyone does. Actually the women
have few choices because they are not able to take their places in free society.
They do not have the training, education or experience in making decisions that
would enable them to be successful. While they may love their children they are
abusing them by not allowing them to see the world and attend school so that the
children would have the tools they need to be able to make informed decisions
about what kind of life they want to lead when they grow up. It is
unconscionable that the state could allow their birthright as American to be
stolen from them so that they cannot choose to be doctors, lawyers, engineers,
or whatever star they want to aim for. This is intellectual and moral abuse.
Perhaps the abusers were themselves abused but neither that nor tears and
protestations will help their children have an informed choice when they grow
up.
concern | 11:18 a.m. April 25, 2008
I am also of the census that these children need to be taken away as sad as it
may be. I read that some of these children may not even belong to the mothers
that they are living with. If mothers and families are reassigned who knows
what the connection between the kids and the mothers may be. This is tragic
and should have been stopped long ago. Not only are they guilty of rape, child
abuse, and poligamy but they are also guilty of human trafficking. What a sick
and twisted group of people.
@ Children First | 11:22 a.m. April 25, 2008
Although you are right in all you say, the problem here is that we aren't
at that stage yet.
No one has been arrested.
No Jury has been selected.
No specific evidence has been presented.
No trial has been heard.
And although I dislike this group as much as you do, and would like to see all the abusing men locked up, we are a country of laws. The only thing that has happend so far in this case is that women and children have been taken into protective custody against their will.
We can't lock people up for what they might think, let alone what they might do in the future.
Had the Texas CPS done their jobs, they would have built cases against specific abusers and arrested and procecuted them.
As it is, most of the evidence is most likely tainted by the unconsitutional methods of the Texas CPS.
No one has been arrested.
No Jury has been selected.
No specific evidence has been presented.
No trial has been heard.
And although I dislike this group as much as you do, and would like to see all the abusing men locked up, we are a country of laws. The only thing that has happend so far in this case is that women and children have been taken into protective custody against their will.
We can't lock people up for what they might think, let alone what they might do in the future.
Had the Texas CPS done their jobs, they would have built cases against specific abusers and arrested and procecuted them.
As it is, most of the evidence is most likely tainted by the unconsitutional methods of the Texas CPS.
Hypocrites | 11:30 a.m. April 25, 2008
Everyone complains about CPS riping children away from their mothers, etc. If
CPS knew what was going on in the YFZ Ranch/prison and didn't do anything
about it you would all be complaining and horrified CPS was letting such abuse
take place. Now that they go in and do something about it you're screaming
for CPS's head.
If CPS doesn't seperate the children from the mothers the mothers just go right back to the ranch/prison and subject the children to mental, physical and sexual abuse. The mothers are the enablers here. The mothers don't scream "Help" when their child is "disciplined" or "broken in." The mothers don't scream for help when their 14 year old daughter is forced to get married and raped by a "husband" twice the daughter's age. Unfortunately, you can't leave the children with the mothers. The mothers aren't good mothers.
If CPS doesn't seperate the children from the mothers the mothers just go right back to the ranch/prison and subject the children to mental, physical and sexual abuse. The mothers are the enablers here. The mothers don't scream "Help" when their child is "disciplined" or "broken in." The mothers don't scream for help when their 14 year old daughter is forced to get married and raped by a "husband" twice the daughter's age. Unfortunately, you can't leave the children with the mothers. The mothers aren't good mothers.
concern | 12:06 p.m. April 25, 2008
in response to children first: I would say that finding several teenage
pregnant girls and teen age mothers is evidence enough. What more do you need?
Yes we are governed by laws but as another poster wrote. If the abuses
continued and nothing was done we would be appalled. They are law breakers.
Poligamy is illegal. Do you honestly think it is ok that people should be
criminals and hide behind religion? Personally if men want to marry thirty
wives and the thirty wives are over 18 and chose to do so, I could less. But
dont take a 14 year old (without choice) consent or no consent of a stepford
wife and tell me that is fine. Dont tell me it is fine to dump teenage boys on
the side of the road because it is too much competition for the old pervs. If
they tossed their 14 year old to the road they would be and should be arrested
for abandonement. On top of everything else they steal from the government.
They steal OUR money. Is that ok too?
Great with child? | 12:29 p.m. April 25, 2008
How come none of the women I see in prairie dresses appear to be pregnant?
There's an awful lot of kids around for that number of women. Seems like
more of them would be pregnant.
Cookie | 12:37 p.m. April 25, 2008
As Naomi said on Dr. Phil Wed., the mothers are victims, too; when asked by
Dr.Phil if the mothers are capable of protecting their children from abuse,
she replied, "No." Naomi knows. Thank heaven she
got out.
When these children are exposed to the outside world
and realize that there are caring, loving, people
beyond the world they have known, then they may start communicating.
I agree with Archaea and Hypocrites, totally.
What chance did the babies and children have at
Jonesboro? None.
Was it better to act than not to act?
I wish to God someone would have rescued me!
Don't forget, that Texas has promised that the
foster care will not be traditional foster care.
I personally know of one place that they will be
going to and it is a wonderful place. The children
who go there will be very blessed.
she replied, "No." Naomi knows. Thank heaven she
got out.
When these children are exposed to the outside world
and realize that there are caring, loving, people
beyond the world they have known, then they may start communicating.
I agree with Archaea and Hypocrites, totally.
What chance did the babies and children have at
Jonesboro? None.
Was it better to act than not to act?
I wish to God someone would have rescued me!
Don't forget, that Texas has promised that the
foster care will not be traditional foster care.
I personally know of one place that they will be
going to and it is a wonderful place. The children
who go there will be very blessed.
JP | 1:06 p.m. April 25, 2008
To Great with Child:
The reason you don't see lot's of pregnant women walking around asking for help is because the majority of the pregnant women they are finding are under 18.
The state is protecting them and keeping them away from the media.
If you notice, almost all of the women speaking up are a bit older and some of the 1st wives of their husbands.
Although this part is just guessing, I think it's probably correct to assume that the men prefer to bed with the younger women.
The older women have lived a many years with life like they have. It's even been said they are bitter and rude towards the younger women. Because they want to make sure the younger women are subject to the same abusive lives they have had to live.
After all if you lived a horrible life like that, it would be hard not to be bitter.
I'd be very surprised if we ever see the younger pregnant women out and about. Before the court cases have been had and everything is sorted out. I am glad they are being protected and hopefully educated a little.
The reason you don't see lot's of pregnant women walking around asking for help is because the majority of the pregnant women they are finding are under 18.
The state is protecting them and keeping them away from the media.
If you notice, almost all of the women speaking up are a bit older and some of the 1st wives of their husbands.
Although this part is just guessing, I think it's probably correct to assume that the men prefer to bed with the younger women.
The older women have lived a many years with life like they have. It's even been said they are bitter and rude towards the younger women. Because they want to make sure the younger women are subject to the same abusive lives they have had to live.
After all if you lived a horrible life like that, it would be hard not to be bitter.
I'd be very surprised if we ever see the younger pregnant women out and about. Before the court cases have been had and everything is sorted out. I am glad they are being protected and hopefully educated a little.
Re:Cookie | 1:12 p.m. April 25, 2008
I am so pleased that your knowledge is of such, that
you can make all encompassing decisons about others
lives. Godhood must be a very rewarding existance.
you can make all encompassing decisons about others
lives. Godhood must be a very rewarding existance.
bigal | 1:13 p.m. April 25, 2008
If the FLDS had aborted all of the pregnant teen agers and given condoms to the
rest, all would be well with our crazy society.
Anonymous | 1:18 p.m. April 25, 2008
These people are immoral and savage, we need to reeducate them just like we did
when we forced indian kids to go to white man school. our society is always
better.
Unintended consequences | 1:27 p.m. April 25, 2008
The state forcing these people to abandon the values and practices they have
been taught all their life may have some unintended consequences.
If you think Jeffs was terrible and issolationist... just think how "militant-FLDS" some of the kids that come out of this social experement will be. It's like expecting the militant-muslim prisoners in GITMO to come out loving the Unites States and our culture instead of being even more committed to their resentment towards us.
With the resentment of being torn from their families and culture and being raised by what they consider to be "The enemy"... Some will grow to adulthood with a lot of resentment.
We can't control them all their lives. Some are going to go back to the way they used to live. And if you think Jeffs was afraid of outsiders, just imagine how paranoid some of these kids will be after being raised FORCED to not live according to what they have been taught by the parents they loved.
If you think Jeffs was terrible and issolationist... just think how "militant-FLDS" some of the kids that come out of this social experement will be. It's like expecting the militant-muslim prisoners in GITMO to come out loving the Unites States and our culture instead of being even more committed to their resentment towards us.
With the resentment of being torn from their families and culture and being raised by what they consider to be "The enemy"... Some will grow to adulthood with a lot of resentment.
We can't control them all their lives. Some are going to go back to the way they used to live. And if you think Jeffs was afraid of outsiders, just imagine how paranoid some of these kids will be after being raised FORCED to not live according to what they have been taught by the parents they loved.
Kandi | 1:28 p.m. April 25, 2008
To Hector Ahumada:
First of all, what does the LDS prophet have to do with this? The issue at hand involves members of the FLDS church, not the LDS church, so why should you expect a statement by the prophet of the LDS church on the removal of the FLDS children from their mothers?
Second, your assertion that those women are "good, hard-working, faithful women" can only come from one of two places; your (ignorant) assumption that they are such, or your personal knowledge (ie, you know them personally). If the first, I would like to know how you know this. I happen to have first-hand experience living in a similar cult as a young woman (my mother having joined when I was a young child--I, living there periodically through my youth), and I can tell you that the mothers there are hardly blameless, innocent, or as you put it, "good, hard-working, faithful women". Take out the "good" in that statement, and perhaps you may be correct. The women I knew sure did work hard--at keeping the abuse, the truth, hidden from anyone who could stop them. They sure were faithful--to the perverted "religion" of abuse.
First of all, what does the LDS prophet have to do with this? The issue at hand involves members of the FLDS church, not the LDS church, so why should you expect a statement by the prophet of the LDS church on the removal of the FLDS children from their mothers?
Second, your assertion that those women are "good, hard-working, faithful women" can only come from one of two places; your (ignorant) assumption that they are such, or your personal knowledge (ie, you know them personally). If the first, I would like to know how you know this. I happen to have first-hand experience living in a similar cult as a young woman (my mother having joined when I was a young child--I, living there periodically through my youth), and I can tell you that the mothers there are hardly blameless, innocent, or as you put it, "good, hard-working, faithful women". Take out the "good" in that statement, and perhaps you may be correct. The women I knew sure did work hard--at keeping the abuse, the truth, hidden from anyone who could stop them. They sure were faithful--to the perverted "religion" of abuse.
Kandi | 1:57 p.m. April 25, 2008
To Unintended Consequences:
To compare children placed in specially chosen foster homes with islamic radical terrorists in GITMO is beyond ludicrous. I would say more, but I don't think I need to as your drawing that comparison denotes your ignorance on the subject.
To @ Children First:
Of course no one has been arrested yet. The DNA testing hasn't been completed yet. Once they can link children to old men and young girls, they can make arrests.
Of course no jury has been selected--there is not yet a trial, no one has been arrested yet.
Of course no specific evidence has been presented--at least not that has been released to the media. Evidence at a trial such as this may not all be told to the Associated Press. Once trials are underway, evidence will be presented. Also, not all the evidence has been evaluated (DNA evidence).
Of course no trial ("has been heard") is underway. For the reasons stated and re-stated above.
Also, you (and many others) keep claiming that the CPS violated Constitutional Rights, no probable cause, etc. A shelter received a phone call they believed came from within the compound. Once there, they saw evidence of abuse.
To compare children placed in specially chosen foster homes with islamic radical terrorists in GITMO is beyond ludicrous. I would say more, but I don't think I need to as your drawing that comparison denotes your ignorance on the subject.
To @ Children First:
Of course no one has been arrested yet. The DNA testing hasn't been completed yet. Once they can link children to old men and young girls, they can make arrests.
Of course no jury has been selected--there is not yet a trial, no one has been arrested yet.
Of course no specific evidence has been presented--at least not that has been released to the media. Evidence at a trial such as this may not all be told to the Associated Press. Once trials are underway, evidence will be presented. Also, not all the evidence has been evaluated (DNA evidence).
Of course no trial ("has been heard") is underway. For the reasons stated and re-stated above.
Also, you (and many others) keep claiming that the CPS violated Constitutional Rights, no probable cause, etc. A shelter received a phone call they believed came from within the compound. Once there, they saw evidence of abuse.
Doug S | 2:09 p.m. April 25, 2008
The article states "Only 80 men and women showed up at the Schleicher
County Memorial Building in Eldorado to give a sample, authorities said. An
additional 70 gave samples at the San Angelo Coliseum."
"Only"? Umm, you do realize that that adds up to 150 persons, which is the bulk of the adults living at YFZ ranch--right?
"Only"? Umm, you do realize that that adds up to 150 persons, which is the bulk of the adults living at YFZ ranch--right?
Re: Doug S | 2:28 p.m. April 25, 2008
I thought that was funny too. The DesNews is definately showing some bias there.
They need to send their reporters back to journalism 101 where you learn how to
write objectively and check your facts.
kristine | 2:45 p.m. April 25, 2008
I live in Utah and this is a sad thing, but these mothers need to prosecute the
men and need to be decompressed about what real life is all about in the world
we live in. They need to be with their children if it is theirs and tell the
truth. The are frauding the Government by collecting welfare checks monthly this
is how they get so rich.( My taxes paid for it) 1 men and 10 wives they make 10
kids do the math.They need to see their name in the Driver license if it is
real.They cannot be religious as they are breaking many of the 10 commandments,
this is stricly sexual for the men as the women has no clues. They need to get
all the men at the ranch , why are they so privilege? they the one that made all
these kids,cousins within and sibblings , although some are transfered with
wives to escape the mess they cause and they will never be caught. The
Governemnt need to check the cimetery in Colorado City and exume the bodies of
all the children born deformed from incest...This is sick !
Kristine | 2:57 p.m. April 25, 2008
The why did we go to Afghanistan? to liberate the woment hatw as so controlled?
we have this right here at home in the good ol USA? goods job texas! you are
doing a fine job, this needed to be done...and now we need experts to
decompresed these kids and ladies to wake upo from the night mares they have
lived....no way life that life can be great when you share a husband at his
demands. and kids. I see them at walmart all the time, they are NEVER alone! in
case one chose to run off they cannot! they live with fear read the biography
books! One day 5 of them shop at the store they all look alike and are pregnat
....sad...for the kids.. but they will grow up just like them...and we will go
broke for them all. a stop is a must!
Re: Kandi | 3:17 p.m. April 25, 2008
Define "Good".
A few years ago it was okay in Texas for a 14-year old teenagers to be married.
Years before that, Polygamy was also considered okay. Heck, it's even in the Bible, isn't that called the "Good" book?
Yours and Judge Walther's definition of "good" means that teenagers are raised in a Britany Spears, pop-culture society.
I find it funny that you say that those children, being married to older men, will have their lives become unhappy and ruined. Don't you think that the older women in the compound were also married off to older men when they were young? In general, they all seem to be pretty happy to me.
It goes back to the old argument: if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to see it, does it really fall? If a society lives happily based on rules that are "evil" to OUR society, is it still considered "evil"?
A few years ago it was okay in Texas for a 14-year old teenagers to be married.
Years before that, Polygamy was also considered okay. Heck, it's even in the Bible, isn't that called the "Good" book?
Yours and Judge Walther's definition of "good" means that teenagers are raised in a Britany Spears, pop-culture society.
I find it funny that you say that those children, being married to older men, will have their lives become unhappy and ruined. Don't you think that the older women in the compound were also married off to older men when they were young? In general, they all seem to be pretty happy to me.
It goes back to the old argument: if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there to see it, does it really fall? If a society lives happily based on rules that are "evil" to OUR society, is it still considered "evil"?
Question for Cookie | 3:30 p.m. April 25, 2008
Instead of taking all the children, why not just take minor girls of child
bearing age (say 10-17 to be safe)? This would have protected those at risk for
sexual abuse in this culture. It would have been a powerful message to the FLDS
as well - this is the group they value the most. Included in this group would
have been the pregnant minors.
Many people who are concerned about the wholesale seizure of the children would have been more comfortable with this approach. Judge Walther would have found it much easier to ensure due process in the 14-day hearing(s). Much of the arguments against the actions of Texas CPS would have been muted.
Once the truth was known about this group of minor girls and their cases addressed, CPS and the courts could have then made decisions regarding the safety of the remaining children.
I know this approach would have been a bit unorthodox, but so are many of the actions CPS has taken.
Cookie, what would have been wrong with this approach?
Many people who are concerned about the wholesale seizure of the children would have been more comfortable with this approach. Judge Walther would have found it much easier to ensure due process in the 14-day hearing(s). Much of the arguments against the actions of Texas CPS would have been muted.
Once the truth was known about this group of minor girls and their cases addressed, CPS and the courts could have then made decisions regarding the safety of the remaining children.
I know this approach would have been a bit unorthodox, but so are many of the actions CPS has taken.
Cookie, what would have been wrong with this approach?
Anonymous | 3:31 p.m. April 25, 2008
Do you think the tunnel from Salt Late Temple to Paris France is still open? The
one used to kidnap girls to marry old men in Salt Lake? These are the same
things said about a lot of ancestors here and why do you sound like these people
now? More enlightened?
Mountain Man | 3:40 p.m. April 25, 2008
Some questions/comments from the high country
Does anyone (CPS, courts, sheriff's office personnel, game wardens, FLDS) involved in this fiasco have an IQ over 80?
I would wager that: 1) the average CPS worker has had more sexual partners than the average FLDS adult man; and, 2) the average CPS worker started having sex earlier than the average FLDS female.
If the above two situations are correct, maybe Texas should take away the children of the CPS workers and give them to the FLDS.
Would the FLDS women look better with makeup and more 'modern' hairstyles?
I take it that public speaking is not part of the FLDS 'curricula.'
Would the FLDS have more civil rights if Texas were still part of Mexico?
Pray for a quick resolution of this nightmare.
Does anyone (CPS, courts, sheriff's office personnel, game wardens, FLDS) involved in this fiasco have an IQ over 80?
I would wager that: 1) the average CPS worker has had more sexual partners than the average FLDS adult man; and, 2) the average CPS worker started having sex earlier than the average FLDS female.
If the above two situations are correct, maybe Texas should take away the children of the CPS workers and give them to the FLDS.
Would the FLDS women look better with makeup and more 'modern' hairstyles?
I take it that public speaking is not part of the FLDS 'curricula.'
Would the FLDS have more civil rights if Texas were still part of Mexico?
Pray for a quick resolution of this nightmare.
Wassup | 3:46 p.m. April 25, 2008
Who's next? The children of Muslims who believe in the Sharia law. If you
want to read about some serious indoctrination, take a read of Sharia law.
Oh wait, since they are Muslim, it would be politically incorrect to remove all those kids because of their indoctrination and who they 'might' become as they become adults.
Oh wait, since they are Muslim, it would be politically incorrect to remove all those kids because of their indoctrination and who they 'might' become as they become adults.
Jane | 3:51 p.m. April 25, 2008
Good job Texas. Waco, Elderado. Sorry the Amish are out of your territory.
Trite | 3:55 p.m. April 25, 2008
I know its obvious, but if them polyggers don't like the laws of the United
States, they are welcome to move out.
Re: Anonymous | 4:10 p.m. April 25, 2008
The way I heard it, that tunnel ran from London, England. And the girls that
refused to marry polygamous men were thrown off the spires of the temple into
the Great Salt Lake. I actually had people tell me this on my mission in
England.
My reply? "Wow, I'm really impressed with those early polygamists - they could hurl a girl about 10 miles."
My reply? "Wow, I'm really impressed with those early polygamists - they could hurl a girl about 10 miles."
Kristine... | 4:09 p.m. April 25, 2008
It is not just the English language which shows your ignorance. Your loose
handling of your accusations belies your assumed understanding of anything to do
with the FLDS. Do a little research and try again.
AJ | 4:15 p.m. April 25, 2008
Doctrine and Covenants 98:4-6 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws
of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things
whatsoever I command them. And that law of the land which is constitutional,
supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges,
belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. Therefore, I, the Lord,
justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is
the constitutional law of the land;
Doctrine and Covenants 134:4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.
Doctrine and Covenants 134:4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.
To Denise | 4:19 p.m. April 25, 2008
As much as I don't like it. I do not want to see girls that have had
genital mutilation separated from their mothers. Oh wait, that would be your
response. I would want them immediately separated for inflicting butchery on
these girls just as child rape/incest and abandonment is a different form of
butchery.
just me | 4:25 p.m. April 25, 2008
Is not the law in Texas now that 16 is the legal age of marriage with parents
consent. No one has asked if these pregnant minors are under 16.
Kawalh | 4:25 p.m. April 25, 2008
We have, right around the corner in this City of Jacksonville, FL children
having children. The great grandmother gets our tax dollars to watch them.
I'll bet its like that in your community also. Get real, the FLDS is being
taken to court for their religon!
Now they can learn | 4:27 p.m. April 25, 2008
I am so grateful that the state of texas took away the children to new homes.
Now these children can learn how strange and brain washed their culture is. One
can only hope that they then take all our mormon kids from our homes, so that
all of our mormon children can escape our peculiar and brain washed culture as
well.
(This is called sarcasm, by the way. But think about what I said. No, really. I have lived most of my life outside Zion, and I guarantee you that the majority of the world thinks we are almost as brainwashed as many of you are claiming the FLDS to be.)
(This is called sarcasm, by the way. But think about what I said. No, really. I have lived most of my life outside Zion, and I guarantee you that the majority of the world thinks we are almost as brainwashed as many of you are claiming the FLDS to be.)
laura | 4:32 p.m. April 25, 2008
If you agree with polygamy or not......The state went in under what appears to
be false pretenses and took 462 children! They took theres, then they can take
yours too! Look, anyone can make allegations true or not, are we going to lose
our familys becuase someone gets mad and lies? Give those babies back to there
moms. Have you ever been TAKEN from your family?
Wait a minute . . . | 4:52 p.m. April 25, 2008
Okay, so that means that Jamie Spears (sister of Brittany), needs to be
separated from her baby as soon as it's born. Her boyfriend is an adult,
so isn't this statutory rape? He needs to be charged. Her parents have
shown off their stunning judgment and parenting skills in their older daughter,
so clearly they need to be separated from their daughters and grandchildren, as
well.
I can't STAND the FLDS--their beliefs and their often unethical behavior--but this is so over the top and so against our constitution that I am physically ill. Our federal government and our state governments are out of control. DCFS (CPS in Texas) is just like the IRS: a entity unto itself. In both cases you are guilty until proven innocent.
I can't STAND the FLDS--their beliefs and their often unethical behavior--but this is so over the top and so against our constitution that I am physically ill. Our federal government and our state governments are out of control. DCFS (CPS in Texas) is just like the IRS: a entity unto itself. In both cases you are guilty until proven innocent.
G | 4:55 p.m. April 25, 2008
Cougargard:
"am amazed at the lack of understanding of the devasting consequences of the polygamous lifestyle. The number of practicing polygamist families is growing geometrically and must be stopped."
Why are you so afraid of polygamy? Polygamous relationships between consenting adults are no more sinful than adultery. Adultery, by the way, is growing a lot faster than polygamy but there doesn't seem to be any outcry for mass arrests. I guess it's easier to lash out at people that are different from you.
Brooke | 5:18 p.m. April 25, 2008
This abduction or kidnapping of these children from their parents is in direct
conflict with Our Constitution. There is nothing wrong with a group practicing
their religion. I am not Flds. But I do believe they have religious rights.
Just because I don't believe in their beliefs doesn't give me the
right to tell them what they have to believe to be parents. Muslims, Jews,
Amish, Adventists, Mormons all have beliefs that people find offensive. All we
have heard are rumors without evidence. Their apostates have been paraded non
stop. I've seen no evidence at all. Just because my neighbor commits a
crime doesn't give the govt the right to remove the children of the entire
village. Wow, Is this the USA?
Wyo Reader | 5:28 p.m. April 25, 2008
To: Hector
You are correct the Prophet of the LDS church is the Prophet for the entire human civilization. He has spoken in the form of "The Family - A Proclamation to the World" Google it and you can read his words regarding the Lords plan for families. The practice of polygamy was discontinued by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints many years ago. We have no ties nor any responsibility to a group that has chosen to continue the practice and by that, break the laws of this country. I hope, like many others, that the children will come out of this experience alright and the women will gain a backbone and start standing up to the men and stand up for the rights of their teenage sons & daughters. We focus on the teenage daughters but there are sons that do not want to marry at such a young age and have children. Let's not forget the sons.
You are correct the Prophet of the LDS church is the Prophet for the entire human civilization. He has spoken in the form of "The Family - A Proclamation to the World" Google it and you can read his words regarding the Lords plan for families. The practice of polygamy was discontinued by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints many years ago. We have no ties nor any responsibility to a group that has chosen to continue the practice and by that, break the laws of this country. I hope, like many others, that the children will come out of this experience alright and the women will gain a backbone and start standing up to the men and stand up for the rights of their teenage sons & daughters. We focus on the teenage daughters but there are sons that do not want to marry at such a young age and have children. Let's not forget the sons.
To: Kristine who knows all | 5:45 p.m. April 25, 2008
All the pictures I've seen in the news does not show deformed children and
whose to say they have all had nightmares. Most likely the majority of people in
this group have lived this way since they were born, so how would you know if
they don't like this life style. Do you have personal contact with all the
men, women and children of this group to make such statement.
James | 5:59 p.m. April 25, 2008
My thanks to the great State of Texas for actions in saving the 467 + innocent
children from the LDS Male pedophiles and their Female accomplices who blatantly
disregard Federal and State laws against child rape and the polygamy lifestyle.
James
Logan, UT
James
Logan, UT
Leroy G | 6:20 p.m. April 25, 2008
Lets see now.
All the children are in good health. After all they eat lots of fresh vegetables straight from their garden on the Ranch.
They are all educated beyond their peers in the public schools. They are all home schooled. Some say only to the 10th grade. Maybe that is because by that time they already have our 12 th grade equivalency.
Some of these children go on and get a College education. Probably according to the needs of the group. Maybe they are told they should be a teacher instead of something else. I am not so sure they are stopped from choosing.
Deformed children?? In the times we live the gene can be identified and since they decide who marries whom, they can make sure two carriers of the gene do not marry. Presto the genetic disease goes away.
All the children are in good health. After all they eat lots of fresh vegetables straight from their garden on the Ranch.
They are all educated beyond their peers in the public schools. They are all home schooled. Some say only to the 10th grade. Maybe that is because by that time they already have our 12 th grade equivalency.
Some of these children go on and get a College education. Probably according to the needs of the group. Maybe they are told they should be a teacher instead of something else. I am not so sure they are stopped from choosing.
Deformed children?? In the times we live the gene can be identified and since they decide who marries whom, they can make sure two carriers of the gene do not marry. Presto the genetic disease goes away.
NewDeliBob | 6:26 p.m. April 25, 2008
They had a cement plant, supposedly, at the ranch. Do you know what the main
component of a cement plant is? A kiln.
Maybe an inspection is in order.
Maybe an inspection is in order.
Judge has no Knowledge | 6:32 p.m. April 25, 2008
about the FLDS Children
She is making a total mess as usual knowing nothing about nothing
Same happens in Utah
The innocent pay the price for their ignorance
She is making a total mess as usual knowing nothing about nothing
Same happens in Utah
The innocent pay the price for their ignorance
HarryL | 6:34 p.m. April 25, 2008
There is a fundamental problem here with perceived anarchy. The other thing is
that FLDS, at least as it appears, are violating social taboos that are held by
just about every religion, norm, and law in this country. The fact that they
have managed to get away with it for this long reflects social tolerance and not
an effort to mash their religion into the ground. I don't think anyone in
the CPS system really cares what they wear or what they believe in, the fact is
that there are children being married to adults and this is a violation of
religious as well as civil code. That they pushed it this far to where they land
in Texas, of all places one of the harshest judicial climates in America, is
reflective of the egotism of their leaders and the denial of their followers. It
is sad for the children being placed in foster care, and the women being
separated from them, somewhere someone had to have thought about the
consequences to this vicious behavior and turned aside from what is right to
accept an extremely controlled life of shame and regret.
BobP | 6:43 p.m. April 25, 2008
It is quite amazing how many of the LDS here have forgotten our own articles of
faith.
"Let them worship, how, who or what they may . . ."
"Let them worship, how, who or what they may . . ."
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