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Complaints grow about Utah politics
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Action Jackson | 3:37 a.m. April 25, 2008
I take exception to these allegations. Republicans would never engage in such
behavior. This is an outrage.
Displeased citizen of Utah | 3:57 a.m. April 25, 2008
My goodness. I am mormon, and I am a citizen of Utah. But the republican party
has ideologically "raped" Utah's reasoning and has done this is a
dirty and corrupted fashion.
From all of the places, you would think that Utah would stop being so silly about politics. No I am not a democrat, but Mike Gravel, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader should be the people that we are talking about, not Mitt Romney, who says he is mormon, but for people who know about him, he is a crook, and Bush 2.0 aka McCain.
Republican party isn't the bishopric guys, we must step up, get informed, and demand that our officials do their job, and if not, we step up, punch them in the mouth, and say no more corruption and abuse of the populace.
From all of the places, you would think that Utah would stop being so silly about politics. No I am not a democrat, but Mike Gravel, Ron Paul, and Ralph Nader should be the people that we are talking about, not Mitt Romney, who says he is mormon, but for people who know about him, he is a crook, and Bush 2.0 aka McCain.
Republican party isn't the bishopric guys, we must step up, get informed, and demand that our officials do their job, and if not, we step up, punch them in the mouth, and say no more corruption and abuse of the populace.
bhparkman | 4:10 a.m. April 25, 2008
Yes; this is the nature of politics.
Anyone who has spent time in the closed door meetings of the RNC, DNC, Consitution Party, etc. knows that these party leaders look for two major things in candidates:
Will this person bring in money for the party?
Is this person able to win the election?
Everything is calculated for winning elections, gaining money and power, and they don't really care about the citizens' opinions. That's just not applicable anymore. Every party does this; I've seen and heard it with my own senses.
If folks really want control of their state back, then they'll have to do a few things:
1. Don't have party loyalty. They seriously aren't loyal to you, so don't waste your energy.
2. Don't give them money. Most folks who run for office already have their own fortunes. They don't need your money.
3. Shop for a candidate from any party and grill them severely. If they won't respond to you in the election cycle, then they'll probably ignore you after elected.
Lastly, the LDS Church does not command it's mamber sot vote Republican. That's a urban legend born from bad historians doing a bad job.
Anyone who has spent time in the closed door meetings of the RNC, DNC, Consitution Party, etc. knows that these party leaders look for two major things in candidates:
Will this person bring in money for the party?
Is this person able to win the election?
Everything is calculated for winning elections, gaining money and power, and they don't really care about the citizens' opinions. That's just not applicable anymore. Every party does this; I've seen and heard it with my own senses.
If folks really want control of their state back, then they'll have to do a few things:
1. Don't have party loyalty. They seriously aren't loyal to you, so don't waste your energy.
2. Don't give them money. Most folks who run for office already have their own fortunes. They don't need your money.
3. Shop for a candidate from any party and grill them severely. If they won't respond to you in the election cycle, then they'll probably ignore you after elected.
Lastly, the LDS Church does not command it's mamber sot vote Republican. That's a urban legend born from bad historians doing a bad job.
Comments continue below
Tom | 5:21 a.m. April 25, 2008
Most unseemly behavior from rancerous, power hungry, self-indulgent, dweebs.
That's what it looks like to folks on the outside. If you cannot act like
adults, follow the letter and spirit of the rules, then go to Texas and start
your own little fiefdom(s).
russ | 6:02 a.m. April 25, 2008
This is easily solved by doing one of two things. Don't vote republican.
Or, vote democrat. That is how one party rule is undone.
Not nuclear science you know.
Not nuclear science you know.
BBKing | 6:37 a.m. April 25, 2008
Good people doing bad things.
Curt Bramble is a pit bull, and of course every game possible is being played in order for him to win. Candidly, the Lockharts and Brambles need to be put out to pasture. So much controversy that has never existed.
Now let me add another MAJOR problem in all of this. Some of the same incredibly controversial people from Salt Lake County are now moving into Utah County. I can't give names or the moderator will censur this post but the people that have caused nothing but controversy are now causing the same problems in Utah County. This is 50% just these trouble makers taking their show on the road.
The last thing any of us should want to have is Nancy Lord playing in Utah County. These people fight just for the sake of fighting.
Sad future ahead for Utah County!
Curt Bramble is a pit bull, and of course every game possible is being played in order for him to win. Candidly, the Lockharts and Brambles need to be put out to pasture. So much controversy that has never existed.
Now let me add another MAJOR problem in all of this. Some of the same incredibly controversial people from Salt Lake County are now moving into Utah County. I can't give names or the moderator will censur this post but the people that have caused nothing but controversy are now causing the same problems in Utah County. This is 50% just these trouble makers taking their show on the road.
The last thing any of us should want to have is Nancy Lord playing in Utah County. These people fight just for the sake of fighting.
Sad future ahead for Utah County!
Politics rules | 6:46 a.m. April 25, 2008
Funny the Republicans can not live with the rules
Utah is in Violation of the Utah State Constitution as well
They all ignore the fact it exist because it protects the public from un just Government
That is your Republican Party for you
Wake up
Utah is in Violation of the Utah State Constitution as well
They all ignore the fact it exist because it protects the public from un just Government
That is your Republican Party for you
Wake up
Anonymous | 6:47 a.m. April 25, 2008
I am currently a Utah county Republican delegate and I have been very surprised
on the activities that occur among delegates and especially precinct chairs. Two
examples I have seen are worth noting.
1) I spoke with a women who is a county delegate and she was told by her precinct chair that they (the precinct delegates) will vote as a "block". In other words, she was told that she can't vote for the candidate she wants and has to vote with the majority opinion of her precinct delegates
2) There is a nearby precinct that did not elect the full set of delegates at the precinct caucus. Later, the precinct chair appointed the remaining delegate. Some claim that this was done to prevent delegates supporting a specific candidate.
While I don't believe there is any conspiracy going on, I am surprised at lack of regulation and oversight over delegate selection and training. In the end, a viable candidate has to work with the system and influence as many delegates as possible to vote in their favor.
1) I spoke with a women who is a county delegate and she was told by her precinct chair that they (the precinct delegates) will vote as a "block". In other words, she was told that she can't vote for the candidate she wants and has to vote with the majority opinion of her precinct delegates
2) There is a nearby precinct that did not elect the full set of delegates at the precinct caucus. Later, the precinct chair appointed the remaining delegate. Some claim that this was done to prevent delegates supporting a specific candidate.
While I don't believe there is any conspiracy going on, I am surprised at lack of regulation and oversight over delegate selection and training. In the end, a viable candidate has to work with the system and influence as many delegates as possible to vote in their favor.
Registered independent | 6:51 a.m. April 25, 2008
I have voted the Republican ticket for as long as I can remenmber, though I have
strayed from it when I believed a particlar candidate was a better choice than
another. I have opposed Sen. Hatch in the last two electionsbecause I believe he
has strayed from his original conservatism. But, I changed to the independent
designation out of frustration with the heavy handed dominance of the state
Republican machine which I think runs afoul of reasonable politics on a routine
basis.
Wide Spread | 6:54 a.m. April 25, 2008
This issue is wide spread. I am a precinct chair in Davis county and pushed hard
to get people out to our local caucus meeting. We had a packed school room full
of people. Representative Curt Oda, on the other hand, is his precinct chair. He
was only able to get 4 people out to his. In his meeting there were 3 delegates
chosen. Mr. Oda, His Wife and his Daughter. They of course all voted for Kurt to
win. Curt won a 50% majority by 1 vote.
This man is a crook... not because he stacks the deck but because of the way he works in the legislature. Why can't Davis county voters see him for what he is. I have left several messages on his phone since the convention... very nice messages... he won't return the call. What a joke of legislator he is!!! VOTE DEMOCRAT!
This man is a crook... not because he stacks the deck but because of the way he works in the legislature. Why can't Davis county voters see him for what he is. I have left several messages on his phone since the convention... very nice messages... he won't return the call. What a joke of legislator he is!!! VOTE DEMOCRAT!
Wassup | 6:56 a.m. April 25, 2008
Happens all the time all over the country. Some Republicans and some Democrats.
Just look at the shenanigans re: Democrat super delegates. 800 super delegates
can override what the vast majority of Dems voted for during the
primaries/caucasus'?
To the established political parties, it's all a game.
To the established political parties, it's all a game.
Crooked Politician | 7:03 a.m. April 25, 2008
Is this really news? A crooked politician? Wake up people. This is coming
from one of the most homogeneous areas in the country that routinely does not
look at the candidates. Instead they feel that they need to vote for the party
with "higher morals" and then do not hold their representatives
responsible. The republican party needs a real gut check as do the democrats.
The problems that we are seeing in the country are a direct result of the people
not being represented by individuals without morals or any allegience to
anything other then their own agenda.
Wow | 7:27 a.m. April 25, 2008
Throw the bums out. The lot of em. As a registered Republican, I am thoroughly
disgusted and embarrassed by members of my party. If Utah County voters
aren't smart enough to vote these folks out, they deserve what they get.
But I for one am still utterly floored at what these incumbents try to get away
with. It's like Moscow in the 1950s.
yorkie | 7:28 a.m. April 25, 2008
Do the world a favor:
Remove one incumbent from office this year.
Do the world a bigger favor:
Make it Curt Bramble. Or Chris Cannon. I'm flexible.
Remove one incumbent from office this year.
Do the world a bigger favor:
Make it Curt Bramble. Or Chris Cannon. I'm flexible.
New Utah Democrat | 7:39 a.m. April 25, 2008
That's why this year, I'm voting Democrat where I live and I'll
continue to vote Republican nationally. (Even Utah GOPs should keep Matheson
and Corroon)
absolute power | 7:40 a.m. April 25, 2008
corrupts absolutley
An epidemic | 7:42 a.m. April 25, 2008
Our political parties are in real trouble. The Internet (thanks, Al) has
increased our collective memory and allowed us to unite through communication
and common ideas.
The platforms are meaningless and weak because the right and the left are both courting the middle. Platitudes and attacks are all that is left.
That said, they survive because there is a record number of voters beholden to government either through entitlements or employment.
Increasingly the politicians will be called upon to do more with less money.
Our "leaders" would do well to read "Standing for Something" by President Hinckley.
The platforms are meaningless and weak because the right and the left are both courting the middle. Platitudes and attacks are all that is left.
That said, they survive because there is a record number of voters beholden to government either through entitlements or employment.
Increasingly the politicians will be called upon to do more with less money.
Our "leaders" would do well to read "Standing for Something" by President Hinckley.
why | 7:43 a.m. April 25, 2008
is a kid too young to vote a delegate?
can you spell N E P O T I S M
can you spell N E P O T I S M
this isn't hard | 7:44 a.m. April 25, 2008
don't move or don't be a delegate. life is full of choices.
Obviously Undereducated | 8:08 a.m. April 25, 2008
There are reasons to question the judgment of State Republican elected
leadership, but I can't see this as being a particularly thorny problem.
I know, the idea of "superdelegates" is repugnant to many people, but on the other hand, why cannot we have our elected officials who happen to be Republican (and in Utah County, that's pretty much the same thing) automatically be delegates? Just why should that be offensive?
Mr. Weiler's (the state vice-chair) specifically supporting one candidate in a Davis County senatorial race is quite a different issue.
I know, the idea of "superdelegates" is repugnant to many people, but on the other hand, why cannot we have our elected officials who happen to be Republican (and in Utah County, that's pretty much the same thing) automatically be delegates? Just why should that be offensive?
Mr. Weiler's (the state vice-chair) specifically supporting one candidate in a Davis County senatorial race is quite a different issue.
Frustrated Republican | 8:14 a.m. April 25, 2008
Throw ALL the BUMS OUT!
Ernest T. Bass | 8:15 a.m. April 25, 2008
Republicans have no ethics and Utah republicans are the worst of the worst.
Nylan | 8:21 a.m. April 25, 2008
You conservative Republican Mormons have a monopoly on the theocratic Republican
Party, and the corruption goes deeper than the corruption of the medieval
popes!
Revolution is required! Clean out all the Republican part leaders and replace the entire gang of thieves with new blood and integrity!
Revolution is required! Clean out all the Republican part leaders and replace the entire gang of thieves with new blood and integrity!
Vote, Vote, Vote, Vote | 8:21 a.m. April 25, 2008
I would surmise that 2/3's of the people who are complaining haven't
voted for years. When will the non voters wake up and realize they have the
power to change the status quo in politics.
When you have 30-40% who don't vote that is a very powerful block of people. Just think what they could do in voting for some minority party candidate. They can dictate to the party and the candidates that they had better start seeing to the needs of the electorate or they will be voted out the next election.
Also so many people complain about their schools, yet statistically 60-80% of the eligible age voters never step inside the booth to elect school board members.
I am a life-long republican and will not support the party financially, because of the way it is run. The democrats are no better.
The state legislature has no guts whatsoever to stop lobbyists gifts. They are immoral and dishonest to their own integrity and especially to the people of the State of Utah.
Wake up electorate and keep voting out the scoundrels until they wake up and become a representative body.
When you have 30-40% who don't vote that is a very powerful block of people. Just think what they could do in voting for some minority party candidate. They can dictate to the party and the candidates that they had better start seeing to the needs of the electorate or they will be voted out the next election.
Also so many people complain about their schools, yet statistically 60-80% of the eligible age voters never step inside the booth to elect school board members.
I am a life-long republican and will not support the party financially, because of the way it is run. The democrats are no better.
The state legislature has no guts whatsoever to stop lobbyists gifts. They are immoral and dishonest to their own integrity and especially to the people of the State of Utah.
Wake up electorate and keep voting out the scoundrels until they wake up and become a representative body.
Wait until you hear | 8:23 a.m. April 25, 2008
Wait until you hear the bullying and harassment that is happening to a
challenger in Utah County. Get rid of the all of the incumbents! Look at this
underground network of deception out there trying to keep in the good old boys
system! Fight back.
Give us your bitter, your whiny | 8:27 a.m. April 25, 2008
Wow--what a bunch of bitter, unhappy posters. Did you know that according to
recent studies, conservatives are between 15 and 20% happier than liberals?
Anonymous | 8:28 a.m. April 25, 2008
Vote them out?? Yeah right! Whatever filth the 'publicans are up to its
gotta be better than those Godless baby killing Democrats!
The past | 8:29 a.m. April 25, 2008
Welcome to New York in the mid 1800's
A little young? | 8:30 a.m. April 25, 2008
A 17-year-old will have significant influence in choosing our candidate?
Dr Don | 8:30 a.m. April 25, 2008
Perhaps those who criticise the Republican Party in Utah should take note of the
state of politics in those states, such as Illinois, that are dominated by the
Democrats. I concur with Will Rogers' comment that there isn't a
nickle's worth of difference between the two parties.
Another hit piece . . . yawn | 8:31 a.m. April 25, 2008
If you haven't noticed, the D-News has a vendetta against anyone who
considers himself "Republican." What's more, I wouldn't
trust Ms. DeGaston's judgment as far as I could throw her. Thanks to the
D-News for at least pointing out her past lapses in judgment.
Ronald R | 8:38 a.m. April 25, 2008
"To the best of my knowledge, that is just something that doesn't
happen," [Lockhart] said.
Well, there's the problem. Not just that it does happen in many, many caucuses every two years, but that the Republican leadership of our one party state has become so smug and arrogant (power corrupts? surprise!) that they can tell lies this blatantly egregious. What's really screwy about this incumbent-supporting system is how variable it is from caucus to caucus; even if a chairperson is trying to keep a meeting on the up and up, there's so little guidance and expertise in running them that it's easy for activists to pervert the process.
Well, there's the problem. Not just that it does happen in many, many caucuses every two years, but that the Republican leadership of our one party state has become so smug and arrogant (power corrupts? surprise!) that they can tell lies this blatantly egregious. What's really screwy about this incumbent-supporting system is how variable it is from caucus to caucus; even if a chairperson is trying to keep a meeting on the up and up, there's so little guidance and expertise in running them that it's easy for activists to pervert the process.
Pittakos | 8:46 a.m. April 25, 2008
We live in a three dimensional world. Why do most of you think in two
dimensions? I hear some of you saying you are fed up with the Republican party
which no longer represents your values so you decide to vote Democrat which
represents your values even less! Where is the logic? There ARE other parties.
There ARE other people running for office, not affiliated with the Democrats or
Republicans. I encourage everyone to look carefully at ALL of the candidates
and then vote for the person who best represents your points of view. You may
not win this time around but at least you can sleep well at night knowing that
you didn't help perpetuate the corrupt two party system that we now have.
Don Guymon | 9:02 a.m. April 25, 2008
Nancy Lord is an asset to the party. As a national committeewoman she sits on
the state executive committee. It perfectly appropriate for her to comment on
actions in the state.
realist | 9:04 a.m. April 25, 2008
People are so easily swayed. The past few stories on the evil of Utah politics
are obviously directed to those who see conspiracies everywhere or who have not
been an active participant in the process. This is a democratic republic, all
involved here are elected, even the precinct leaders. If one is able to get
turnout to support their cause that is how it works. If you have a problem with
it you can do the same. SHOW UP at caucus meetings and elections. GET
INVOLVED. That is how the system runs. Those who show up have a voice, not
those who rant on message boards.
sob | 9:07 a.m. April 25, 2008
ya gets what ya paze fer in utah
Mormons? | 9:11 a.m. April 25, 2008
This has nothing to do with religion, some of them might be members but when it
comes to politics they but it aside. Bramble is a bum, a bully. And Lockhart
is just a pawn of the conservative caucus. I worked with these people and
it's a just a game to them. Stay in power and promote self-interested
bills for their business' while making it look like they really care about
education and health care.
Parker | 9:23 a.m. April 25, 2008
I consider myself a conservative Republican, but I never vote Republican in
Utah. I am sick of their arrogance and hypocrisy. (I am close to parting with
Republicans on the national level, as well, because they have mostly deserted
the traditional conservative values.)
Anonymous | 9:26 a.m. April 25, 2008
Dear "another hit piece"...Did you happen to notice who the editor in
chief is of the Deseret News? It's Joseph Cannon. Former Republican GOP
head and a very conservative man. Please don't blame the messenger for the
culture of corruption created by no opposition and near absolute power. We
don't have to vote for people opposed to Utah values, but we do need to
vote in some Conservative Democrats to balance the few absurdly conservative
politicians like the Bramble's, Lockharts and Daytons.
Where is the sweet spirit? | 9:26 a.m. April 25, 2008
For days I've been amused at all the Texas and Baptist BASHING I have read
on this comment board. Today I see the BOOGY MAN is the Republican party. If I
had any Mormon friends I have a feeling I sure wouldn't need any ENEMIES!
Sorry if this offends anyone, just my observation.
Cantfoolme | 9:26 a.m. April 25, 2008
This is just nature. Deal with it. Instead of whining on this post, get involed,
become someone who makes sense when they talk (calmly I might add)don't
call people names, and soon you will sway people to your view and then make
changes.
Don't expect to win everytime you make a suggestion or point or motion. Just do what you think is right (quietly) and you will gain power to make changes.
Been there done that.
Don't expect to win everytime you make a suggestion or point or motion. Just do what you think is right (quietly) and you will gain power to make changes.
Been there done that.
Bart Grant | 9:29 a.m. April 25, 2008
BBKing??? Whomever She/He is has made a fundamentally flawed statement.
Good People don't do bad things. Bad people do bad things. If you think what has been done is bad then by all means "put them out to pasture" but don't criticize the ONLY party leader who is openly opposing their corrupt practices.
Nancy Lord did not cause Utah County's problem. She is speaking out against it. She is standing up for those who are totally disenfranchised by these corrupt practices.
It seems like you're somewhat opposed to the "bad things" your "good people" are doing down there but are too afraid to use your own name to speak out against them. Sadly, you're not alone.
Good People don't do bad things. Bad people do bad things. If you think what has been done is bad then by all means "put them out to pasture" but don't criticize the ONLY party leader who is openly opposing their corrupt practices.
Nancy Lord did not cause Utah County's problem. She is speaking out against it. She is standing up for those who are totally disenfranchised by these corrupt practices.
It seems like you're somewhat opposed to the "bad things" your "good people" are doing down there but are too afraid to use your own name to speak out against them. Sadly, you're not alone.
dear: . . . bitter-whiny | 9:35 a.m. April 25, 2008
actually we are conservatives. the Republican party fat cat insiders have been
shafting conservatives for a long time but not much longer.
the Republican congress spent like Tip O'Neil wannabes and got canned last time.
We're stuck with McCain but Nov isn't here yet, don't count on revulsion with ObamaHillary being enough to get conservatives to vote for McCain, the jury is still out.
bottom line:
CONSERVATIVES are starting to grow weary of a republican party that doesn't deliver.
the Utah Ruling Republican Families might divert a little attention from padding the delegate list with their kids and think about that.
the Republican congress spent like Tip O'Neil wannabes and got canned last time.
We're stuck with McCain but Nov isn't here yet, don't count on revulsion with ObamaHillary being enough to get conservatives to vote for McCain, the jury is still out.
bottom line:
CONSERVATIVES are starting to grow weary of a republican party that doesn't deliver.
the Utah Ruling Republican Families might divert a little attention from padding the delegate list with their kids and think about that.
Hey, I Know- - - | 9:39 a.m. April 25, 2008
we could vote for Ron Paul !
HAHA HAHA
HOHO HAHA
HEEHEEHEE
i crack myself up
HAHA HAHA
HOHO HAHA
HEEHEEHEE
i crack myself up
Chris Crocker | 9:42 a.m. April 25, 2008
Leave Britney, er... I mean... Nancy alone!!!
Anonymous | 9:43 a.m. April 25, 2008
Balance of power would help this. Get rid of incumbents at every chance.
Representation should never be a career.
Wah! Wah! Wah! | 9:58 a.m. April 25, 2008
I hear a lot of whining here. It doesn't matter which party you adhere to,
but if you're not actively involved by:
a) educating yourself about the issues and candidates, not just by reading their literature but talking to them
b) regularly attending your precinct caucus meetings
c) serving as a precinct officer when asked
d) becoming a delegate to the county and/or state conventions,
you don't have much of a leg to stand on. As has been noted, Utahn's participation in voting, let alone these activities, is embarrassingly low. And please don't pat yourself on the back for showing up to vote (then staring at the machine searching for a name on the list that sounds familiar...), that ain't where it happens.
I should probably add to the list to become familiar with Robert's Rules of Order. The more I participate, the more I realize that he who understands parliamentary procedure has a decided edge over those who do not in a caucus or convention setting. It can make the difference between carrying your point or not (or preventing some numbskull wacko or political bully from carrying his or hers!).
To the whiners--get involved or clam up!
a) educating yourself about the issues and candidates, not just by reading their literature but talking to them
b) regularly attending your precinct caucus meetings
c) serving as a precinct officer when asked
d) becoming a delegate to the county and/or state conventions,
you don't have much of a leg to stand on. As has been noted, Utahn's participation in voting, let alone these activities, is embarrassingly low. And please don't pat yourself on the back for showing up to vote (then staring at the machine searching for a name on the list that sounds familiar...), that ain't where it happens.
I should probably add to the list to become familiar with Robert's Rules of Order. The more I participate, the more I realize that he who understands parliamentary procedure has a decided edge over those who do not in a caucus or convention setting. It can make the difference between carrying your point or not (or preventing some numbskull wacko or political bully from carrying his or hers!).
To the whiners--get involved or clam up!
Observer | 10:02 a.m. April 25, 2008
Looks like the good Utah Republicans have decided to turn their greedy feeding
frenzy for power onto each other. Very entertaining.
Demopublican | 10:10 a.m. April 25, 2008
Utah's Republican party, to which I was once a loyal die-hard foot soldier,
is the most beholden and held hostage to the religious right there is, evidenced
by a Republican party plurality that any deep South state would envy.
This has led to Utah's political and social fabric being raped, pillaged and made to conform to an artificial reality of politics that is so warped that we are now seeing the seeds of fascism planted staring to sprout in the form of rule breaking and/or justifying wrongs in the name of a religion or the greater good... things that, well... the historical outcomes don't justify.
Utah was once known as the most balanced state in the nation regarding political party affiliations and elections. The people had a smarts about them back then wherein they purposefully voted in a Democrat l. governor when if a Republican governor was voted in, and if one house was a majority party they typically elected the other party to a majority in the other house.
But alas, now things are ripped about by opposing idealogies, special interests, hidden agendas, and all the stuff that leads to Fascism or a variation thereof.
This has led to Utah's political and social fabric being raped, pillaged and made to conform to an artificial reality of politics that is so warped that we are now seeing the seeds of fascism planted staring to sprout in the form of rule breaking and/or justifying wrongs in the name of a religion or the greater good... things that, well... the historical outcomes don't justify.
Utah was once known as the most balanced state in the nation regarding political party affiliations and elections. The people had a smarts about them back then wherein they purposefully voted in a Democrat l. governor when if a Republican governor was voted in, and if one house was a majority party they typically elected the other party to a majority in the other house.
But alas, now things are ripped about by opposing idealogies, special interests, hidden agendas, and all the stuff that leads to Fascism or a variation thereof.
Anonymous | 10:19 a.m. April 25, 2008
To realist | 9:04 a.m.,
Did it ever occur to you that these message boards are a great way to get people rallied and engaged? I am willing to bet you will see the results of this message board discussion effect the caucuses in the next round!
Did it ever occur to you that these message boards are a great way to get people rallied and engaged? I am willing to bet you will see the results of this message board discussion effect the caucuses in the next round!
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Who said that ALL BYU fans are ungrateful of Max Hall? You are stereotYping...
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This article is code for more taxes.
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Teams like BYU that won't play us in the Spectrum. I'm just going to keep my...
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