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Reid asks AG to review federal efforts regarding polygamous communities
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Wow! | 5:05 p.m. April 23, 2008
It's a miracle! Reid gets a story in the Deseret News. It's rarer than
toad's teeth to see a Mormon democrat get space in the Deseret News. What
to send the message there are more Mormons in politics than Mitt?
Dan | 5:27 p.m. April 23, 2008
That's all this situation needs to have Reid and his gang poke their nose
into a problem that is already so messed up on both sides. The Feds ought to
let things go for awhile at least until the Texas courts work their way out of a
mire that doesn't need any Senate Committee. If Reid want to do something
for the Country, how about fixing the Oil and Gas scam. Or lower taxes, or
something. Please Mr. Reid, get a grip. Don't spend anymore tax payer
money, asking dumb questions, to get answers that everyone always knows the
answer. The congress sometimes serve the people well, by not doing anything.
But, no, they must give the appearance that they've earned their pay, by
holding hearings and more hearings. Then pass stupid laws that cause more
problems then they solve. So, please Mr. Reid, don't do anything. Take a
vacation, the country would be better served.
I'm not a Reid fan . . . | 5:29 p.m. April 23, 2008
but he deserves a lot of credit for this initiative.
Comments continue below
Another Reed | 5:52 p.m. April 23, 2008
I too, being a proud liberal Democrat and active Mormon, am thrilled that Harry
Reid is taking this matter to heart. Frankly it is and should be a national
case. Just look back into the 1890's and the federal Edmunds-Tucker Act.
Fed problem? | 6:10 p.m. April 23, 2008
Why is it a FEDERAL problem? Shouldn't local and state government's
be in charge?
The FEDS have usurped too much power over the years and our Republic as been nearly toppled.
The FEDS have usurped too much power over the years and our Republic as been nearly toppled.
To: Fed problem? | 6:16 p.m. April 23, 2008
When the states don't enforce the laws (e.g. Utah ans AZ) then it is up to
the Feds to step and make it right in like in the south during the Martin
Luthern King days.
A Federal Matter | 6:28 p.m. April 23, 2008
Feb Problem writes that it should be a state and local problem. Unfortunately
the states many times don't take the initiative on such matters and after
the passage of the 14th Amendment, it was determined that Feds have a role of
intervention when it comes to issues regarding rights.
I am sure you are of the "conservative" bent, so it might behoove you to study J. Reuben Clark. A conservative LDS scholar and public servant who made it his goal on the federal level to systematically prosecute those who practiced polygamy for the very reasons we are seeing now. Clark was a high ranking official in the Justice Department I believe when the famous '53 Raid took place.
I am sure you are of the "conservative" bent, so it might behoove you to study J. Reuben Clark. A conservative LDS scholar and public servant who made it his goal on the federal level to systematically prosecute those who practiced polygamy for the very reasons we are seeing now. Clark was a high ranking official in the Justice Department I believe when the famous '53 Raid took place.
Matthew | 6:46 p.m. April 23, 2008
Please take note. Utah actually assembled a criminal case against Warren Jeffs
and successfully prosecuted him resulting in a conviction. Arizona is well on
the same course.
Texas... has simply made a mess that does lots of harm and likely no good. Texas was ham-handed, bigoted, and wrong in how they handled the YFZ Ranch.
Texas... has simply made a mess that does lots of harm and likely no good. Texas was ham-handed, bigoted, and wrong in how they handled the YFZ Ranch.
Notobush/clinton | 6:54 p.m. April 23, 2008
Have they even found the suppossed victim? Just because a rotten apple spoiled
this bunch in the past doesn't mean you continue to persecute them for what
they are. Violation of the law is only that they are taking more than their
share of social benefits because of the poverty they live in based on the one
working man, many hungry wives and kids philosophy. As far as polygamy goes at
least they are responsible to marry those to whom they procreate, better than
almost 40% of the kids' parents today in the United States. Their system
is effective family values in comparison to none at all. For that, the state
takes their kids and denies them rights guaranteed by the constitution. How
about illegals, why don't they go after them with this kind of gusto? That
is a national security and individual privacy threat much greater. Who are the
next group of citizens that they do this to? LDS should be sticking up for
these people the most since they are the same religion in all but name and one
practice. Difference: LDS knew when it was time to admit they were wrong by
bowing to federal pressure.
Mountain Man | 7:05 p.m. April 23, 2008
Unfotunately many of the polygamist communities are built on or near state
lines. If they get in trouble in one state they just walk across the line and
then they are out of the jurisdiction of that state. This makes it very
difficult for the state authorities. The real issue is not the practice of
polygamy. The real issue is breaking the law. And once you decide to break the
law regarding polygamy you become less inhibited when it comes to breaking other
laws and societal strictures. The Federal government outlawed polygamy in about
1890 and several years later the Mormon church abandoned the practice. The
Mormon church did not abandon polygamy because the practice is evil. The Mormons
abandoned the practice to be law abiding citizens. The FLDS choose to be outlaws
and enforcing the law against polygamy should be a Federal issue. The irony is
that polygamy in and of itself is a very pro family practice, yet the law still
forbids it while practices extremely destructive to the family like
homosexuality, no fault divorce, abortion pornography and adultery are allowed
to spread like wildfire across the nation.
Demopublican | 7:17 p.m. April 23, 2008
Hey folks, I'm an Independent moderate that lately leans just left of
center, but where parental rights and children protection is concerned...
well... let's just say that my view is that today it's State CPS as
Child Protection Services, and tomorrow it will be Federal CPS as the Collective
Parenting Service.
Does that sound so facetious? Maybe today, but I'm not so sure of tomorrow.
Just because we disagree with the religious belief and practices of another does not give us the right to storm troop our way into peoples homes without due process... which the CPS agencies of every state are doing.
I don't agree with these dudes (and dudettes) religion or way of life, but I agree even less with the wholesale suspension of parental rights (which both State and Federal governments are hell bent on destroying) in the name of protecting children, or their dogs and cats or whatever.
It's a dangerous precedent that all Freedom loving and law abiding Americans will come to rue and wish they had handled differently.
This issue is definitely where I part with Liberals (and the neo-Cons penchant for Fascism, which is about controlling parenting and families as well).
Does that sound so facetious? Maybe today, but I'm not so sure of tomorrow.
Just because we disagree with the religious belief and practices of another does not give us the right to storm troop our way into peoples homes without due process... which the CPS agencies of every state are doing.
I don't agree with these dudes (and dudettes) religion or way of life, but I agree even less with the wholesale suspension of parental rights (which both State and Federal governments are hell bent on destroying) in the name of protecting children, or their dogs and cats or whatever.
It's a dangerous precedent that all Freedom loving and law abiding Americans will come to rue and wish they had handled differently.
This issue is definitely where I part with Liberals (and the neo-Cons penchant for Fascism, which is about controlling parenting and families as well).
mo | 7:21 p.m. April 23, 2008
So what you are saying that it is ok for 50 year old men to have sex with 13
year old little girls?????
Just one reason... | 7:24 p.m. April 23, 2008
One reason this needs a federal law, as opposed to simply state laws, is because
of jurisdiction rules. If a girl becomes pregnant in Texas, then Utah may not
be able to prosecute. (At least that's what our Attorney General said on
TV today.)
put the FBI on the case | 7:28 p.m. April 23, 2008
They probably won't fret about earning the polygamist trust or set up
liaison committees or play patty-cake but they might put an end to open
flaunting of the law.
Anonymous | 7:27 p.m. April 23, 2008
There should be a federal 'embassy' built in every polygamist
community; a known safe house where people can try to make their way to freedom.
I'd love to see more help for those mired in the miserable inescapable
existence that emerges when one is stripped of their own identity.
Anonymous | 8:06 p.m. April 23, 2008
I think that the maybe there is some contacts going on behind the scenes with
the Feds and Texas. Texas needs the Feds to bail them out on this one cause it
is soooo messed up starting with the search warrant.
Wondering | 8:59 p.m. April 23, 2008
Ithink Dan & Demopublican hit the nail on the head (two different points).
Federal interference and passing silly laws that worsen things is a big problem
and violating parental rights is a frightening thing.
Child protective services need to have proof of abuse in each individual case. They can't go in just because they fear something MIGHT happen. They don't even have proof that the 16 year old exists. It appears in was probably the Winton woman who made the call, a 33 year old from CO.
One social workers set pecedent of taking children on suspicion of a future abuse, they have crossed the line the Constitution and other laws of the land have set to keep government in check. We all have something to fear at that point and anyone could have their children taken because the government doesn't like the beliefs of the parents.
One doesn't have to approve of the FLDS ways to recognize how wrong and dangerous these things are. Not agreeing with then is not justification for taking the children
Child protective services need to have proof of abuse in each individual case. They can't go in just because they fear something MIGHT happen. They don't even have proof that the 16 year old exists. It appears in was probably the Winton woman who made the call, a 33 year old from CO.
One social workers set pecedent of taking children on suspicion of a future abuse, they have crossed the line the Constitution and other laws of the land have set to keep government in check. We all have something to fear at that point and anyone could have their children taken because the government doesn't like the beliefs of the parents.
One doesn't have to approve of the FLDS ways to recognize how wrong and dangerous these things are. Not agreeing with then is not justification for taking the children
Fear this | 10:45 p.m. April 23, 2008
Your going to keep the government in check? What turnip truck did you fall off
of. We may be slow but once we sink out teeth in, look out. One hundred and ten
years is long enough for even the slow ones to figure things out. I would like
to see you come between a mama bear and her cubs, well mama goverment is going
to come down hard on you country pumpkins so get your ducks in a row and save
your "I have my rights" line for the Federal judge. I can't wait
to hear you say "well god told me I could play with little girls" What
a bunch of crakers.
Unbelievable | 10:48 p.m. April 23, 2008
Amazing to see how many statists there are on this board - folks who just love
to see expansive government.
That being said, if the Feds are being asked to look into polygamous communities, when, then, are they going to look into the lives of homosexuals? Yes, homosexuals - another perverse group. Why not destroy these people's lives as well?
For those of you clowns who think that the federal government has the authority to pass laws like "Edmunds-Tucker", please cite for me the passage of the Constitution that authorizes this. You can't find one? What a surprise! It's because the federal government doesn't have the power to regulate polygamy. In fact, the first amendment specifically prohibits Congress from making laws that infringe on the free exercise of religion - seems many of you have forgotten that.
Do you really believe that ALL polygamists are child abusers? I don't. What's going on here are too many government-loving members of the LDS Church who can't wait for someone else (read: ANY level of government) to go in and crush these people - because the Church thinks they're an embarrassment. Sorry, folks, but religious freedom doesn't work that way...
That being said, if the Feds are being asked to look into polygamous communities, when, then, are they going to look into the lives of homosexuals? Yes, homosexuals - another perverse group. Why not destroy these people's lives as well?
For those of you clowns who think that the federal government has the authority to pass laws like "Edmunds-Tucker", please cite for me the passage of the Constitution that authorizes this. You can't find one? What a surprise! It's because the federal government doesn't have the power to regulate polygamy. In fact, the first amendment specifically prohibits Congress from making laws that infringe on the free exercise of religion - seems many of you have forgotten that.
Do you really believe that ALL polygamists are child abusers? I don't. What's going on here are too many government-loving members of the LDS Church who can't wait for someone else (read: ANY level of government) to go in and crush these people - because the Church thinks they're an embarrassment. Sorry, folks, but religious freedom doesn't work that way...
Blah | 10:52 p.m. April 23, 2008
Gotta love those government-loving members of the LDS Church. "Hey, come
in and get rid of this group that we DON'T like."
Odd, but it seems like the same treatment was dished out to members of the LDS Church by governments about a hundred and sixty years ago. I guess now that Mormons are seen as being relatively 'mainstream' it is OK to turn government against someone else.
Hypocrites!
Odd, but it seems like the same treatment was dished out to members of the LDS Church by governments about a hundred and sixty years ago. I guess now that Mormons are seen as being relatively 'mainstream' it is OK to turn government against someone else.
Hypocrites!
Matt in Tucson | 11:03 p.m. April 23, 2008
The federal government already has stuck in it's nose in the issue of
polygamy. Lawrence vs. Texas basically legalized polygamy along with
homosexuality. Judge Alito said as much in his minority opinion. Those who say
polygamy may be technically accurate, but not functionally accurate. To think
you can successfully prosecute polygamy is to be in denial.
Speaking of parental rights | 11:34 p.m. April 23, 2008
What about the baby selling going on in Utah? How about Herry Reid and the
Federal Government look into the activities of members of Utah's Adoption
Council and their ties to the LDS Church.
Justified | 11:50 p.m. April 23, 2008
Forcing young teen-age girls to "marry" and have sex with older men
fully justifies these raids and the actions the authorities are taking. Are
some innocents going to get caught in the shuffle? Of course. But I would bet
a lot of those innocents have seen and know about laws being broken as well and
are doing nothing. People complain all the time that the "laws" on
immigration are not being enforced. Well this is another example of the laws
not being enforced. It may affect some perfectly good people in the process but
that is always the case when protection of the greater whole is the ultimate
goal (think long lines at airport security).
SJ Bobkins | 1:09 a.m. April 24, 2008
You've got to ask yourself, what the fed fears in acting on FEDERAL laws to
end the disgusting practices of child neglect (running the boys off), interstate
child sexual abuse, (moving girls from SD, UT, AZ, TX around to avoid scrutiny),
failure to educate children to "no child left behind" standards.
The multi state commerce of child brides is a huge crime yet ignored by the Justice Dept. on the grounds of religious freedom. I don't quite get it, a member of the North American Indian church with less than 25% American Indian blood cannot use peyote, a non addictive, non-narcotic, drug, yet the FLDS can transfer 12 year old girls all over the West marrying then bedding them to 55 year old men.
Amazing, and no Virginia this polygamy doesn't resemble the 19th century LDS polygamy practiced by no more than 8% of the church's members.
The multi state commerce of child brides is a huge crime yet ignored by the Justice Dept. on the grounds of religious freedom. I don't quite get it, a member of the North American Indian church with less than 25% American Indian blood cannot use peyote, a non addictive, non-narcotic, drug, yet the FLDS can transfer 12 year old girls all over the West marrying then bedding them to 55 year old men.
Amazing, and no Virginia this polygamy doesn't resemble the 19th century LDS polygamy practiced by no more than 8% of the church's members.
Star1 | 3:53 p.m. April 24, 2008
NOTHING justifies the Texas authorities to act on an "alleged" victim
and to raid a compound violating every law. CPS is supposed to
"investigated" alleged child abuse BEFORE removing children, hold
shelter hearings within 72 hrs. and give the parents and children due
process-which was never done. What has happened here is an illegal CPS
raid,putting these children into foster care for federal money, and the rights
of both the parents and children have been ignored. Polygamy has been around for
hundreds of years and NOW they want to do something about it? The 50 yr old man
who was alleged to be the abuser had never even been to Texas and the alleged
accuser has yet to surface. This was an illegal CPS raid that occured just to
get the "marketable children". They don't want the teenage
boys-the ones that are "marketable" are the young ones who are already
in foster care-SURPRISE SURPRISE !!
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