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FLDS letter finally delivered to Texas governor
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Justin | 2:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
How is this a Story in the Utah section?
george_uu | 2:38 p.m. April 21, 2008
It is amazing just how fast the US is descending into a police state - today
some innocent women and children; tomorrow, any political dissenters. Where is
the protection of Constitutional rights? A fake complaint is legitimate reason
to rip 416 children from their homes? And the mainstream media all declaring
their guilt (with no proof). I'm surprised they haven't found some
connection with Al-Quaeda or Iran to the YFZ people - just to manufacture some
reason to totally deny them any rights. Can any American really deny they
(since Bush anyway) are earning the hatred of the rest of the world?_
Comments continue below
Lilathe | 2:52 p.m. April 21, 2008
Innocent until proven guilty is a myth.
Tearing babies from the bosom of breast-feeding mothers is soon to be a reality if we do not stop it.
Tearing babies from the bosom of breast-feeding mothers is soon to be a reality if we do not stop it.
Jake | 2:52 p.m. April 21, 2008
Justin,did it ever occur to you that it may be an item of intrest to some
Utahn's????
Abe | 2:55 p.m. April 21, 2008
Did this letter bother to give the names of the childrens' fathers?
Can't the fathers write a letter or take some responsibility here? Why
does it seem that 3 out of 4 media stories is about the mothers? And of course
the men don't give their last names, either.
Laura | 3:07 p.m. April 21, 2008
amen george_uu
GEORGE_UU | 3:07 p.m. April 21, 2008
Please get YOUR facts straight before you enter judgment.
#1 you haven't GOT all the facts, AND
#2 the facts of which you so boldy speak are WRONG.
#1 you haven't GOT all the facts, AND
#2 the facts of which you so boldy speak are WRONG.
Matt | 3:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
Why does this article not mention that this raid was a result of a prank call?
The article makes it seem that the call was real.
Japheth | 3:13 p.m. April 21, 2008
Texas has broken and thrown out the entire constitution and they should not be
allowed to remain in the union. At this point I have no love for Texas and they
are outside of the law.
Phil | 3:21 p.m. April 21, 2008
Why didn't they wait till April 6th? Oh, organizations like this one have
a habit of doing it on Fridays, so they will definitely have custody over the
weekend.
Hey George | 3:29 p.m. April 21, 2008
How about this for a connection...did you notice on all of the video coverage
inside the compound by FLDS invitation they have Warren Jeffs plastered on all
the walls?
Anonymous | 3:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
Warren Jeffs picture is on the walls of every room I saw on TV...thats some
connection
reuel | 3:27 p.m. April 21, 2008
I hope you are not surpised at the way the gov of texas handles this mess. he
has good examples to follow in gov Boggs of missouri , and Gov Ford of Illinois.
Diana Brown | 3:28 p.m. April 21, 2008
The theft of 416 children from their homes and mothers by the DHS in the state
of Texas is inhumane and cruel. I agree with george_uu.The civil rights of these
innocent victims have been violated.There are plenty of abused women and
children in the U.S. who are living in deplorable conditions, many pregnant
teens in our schools, and where is the DHS? There are police officers who enter
a home where domestic violence has occured and walk out without doing anything.I
know this from personal experience as my daughter and her two young sons were
innocent victims of abuse.She ended up beaten to death by their abuser after DHS
and the police had been called several times previously and did nothing.My
grandsons, aged 2 and 4 witnessed her murder.They suffer from PTSD which has
affected their entire lives.I have seen houses which looked like garbage heaps
where children lived with their meth using parents.Where are the DHS officials
and the police?From what was shown of the homes at YFZ Ranch the families there
had it pretty good. Why aren't the perpetrators of the alleged abuse in
custody not the innocent victims? Let the children go home!
sue | 3:44 p.m. April 21, 2008
I really hope that someone in this country has still got some common sense and
knows how unconstitutional and totally immoral it is to steal these children
from parents who love them. This is a vital case and all americans should be
watching it very closely. If the government can ignore these peoples
constitutional rights, and gets away with it, get ready for them to storm into
your town next and because maybe the water is contaminated they will steal your
children on child endangerment charges. This is so wrong and if we let it
happenm to them god help us when they come for our children.
BeeCareful | 3:57 p.m. April 21, 2008
Anybody remember the McMartin Pre-school? There they put people in jail for years on the basis of totally false charges which we fomented and implanted in the minds of innocent children by a over-zealous child welfare advocate. It took years and years to get these people out of jail, and they had done nothing wrong. Government can and does make errors of this sort. They often overreach, and then stand their ground in a mulish manner in the face of overwhelming evidence of their folly.
I pity the poor mothers and their innocent children. What a black eye for our Baptist friends in Texas law enforcement.
Allen | 4:14 p.m. April 21, 2008
I assume that half of those children are boys - since no evidence has been
presented that the boys were ever in any danger - they should never have been
taken in the first place.
kbp | 4:26 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm just hoping the Deseretnews will provide a copy of the actual ruling.
I assume if there are orders out on DNA testing, they are either a part of that
ruling or followed it.
william | 4:52 p.m. April 21, 2008
I nephi having been born of goodly parents was taught somewhat in the mysteries
of God. I wonder how many of the so called christian Texas parents have taught
their children any of these mysteries.. too bad that you cannot teach what you
do not know.
There are not many christian woman in Texas that
would apply do unto others as you would do to me....If they felt the pain caused by having your children torn away from your love...they would gather in droves to scream stop it..a story in a certain book tells how a judge says to cut a child in half, and one of the mothers totally agrees while the true mother would rather lose the child to evil that agree to such a horror..the judge in Texas says that the flds group has done a miracle in our world...100% of them are child abusers since nothing has ever been 100% before... the state of Texas has accomplished 100% of child abuse of these same children they so what you to see them protect..
a mothers love is never taken from children that is trully evil....one child at a time please...if you love them....
There are not many christian woman in Texas that
would apply do unto others as you would do to me....If they felt the pain caused by having your children torn away from your love...they would gather in droves to scream stop it..a story in a certain book tells how a judge says to cut a child in half, and one of the mothers totally agrees while the true mother would rather lose the child to evil that agree to such a horror..the judge in Texas says that the flds group has done a miracle in our world...100% of them are child abusers since nothing has ever been 100% before... the state of Texas has accomplished 100% of child abuse of these same children they so what you to see them protect..
a mothers love is never taken from children that is trully evil....one child at a time please...if you love them....
Anonymous | 4:45 p.m. April 21, 2008
I have asked Connor Boyack to form FreeTheChildren.org. He already has gathered
1,635 signatures on his petition to free the children.
If Connor does not feel guided to increase his leadership, I pray someone else will step up and form FreeTheChildren.org as has been suggested on the miraclesdaily blog.
Has the Deseret News done a story about Connor's petition? Maybe I missed it.
Thanks also to the dayofpraise blog for suggesting that the LDS church take a stand on the violation of the Constitution by Child Protective Services. Maybe church leaders will see the wisdom of standing up for the Constitution.
If Connor does not feel guided to increase his leadership, I pray someone else will step up and form FreeTheChildren.org as has been suggested on the miraclesdaily blog.
Has the Deseret News done a story about Connor's petition? Maybe I missed it.
Thanks also to the dayofpraise blog for suggesting that the LDS church take a stand on the violation of the Constitution by Child Protective Services. Maybe church leaders will see the wisdom of standing up for the Constitution.
Reply to Allen | 4:52 p.m. April 21, 2008
I believe that the boys may be released as, from my understanding, the judge
will be deciding on each demographic group of children individually (eg,
infants, boys aged 5-12, girls aged 12-17)...
Have they still not found any proof of abuse? I guess if you can't prove the girls' chronological ages it's difficult to show... particularly as they all have the same name.
What I'm surprised by is why we haven't seen any of the stories from the men that have left the sect given that many of them would need to be pushed out of the sect to maintain the high women to men ratio and this is what some of the women who have left the sect seem to be saying.
Perhaps our authorities are just entangled in a legal mess due to deliberately poor documentation by this group or maybe the state really has wildly overstepped its bounds.
Also, to be fair to law enforcement officials, this was the same state where Waco went down not all that long ago so I can understand the instinct, right or wrong, to be very heavy-handed.
Have they still not found any proof of abuse? I guess if you can't prove the girls' chronological ages it's difficult to show... particularly as they all have the same name.
What I'm surprised by is why we haven't seen any of the stories from the men that have left the sect given that many of them would need to be pushed out of the sect to maintain the high women to men ratio and this is what some of the women who have left the sect seem to be saying.
Perhaps our authorities are just entangled in a legal mess due to deliberately poor documentation by this group or maybe the state really has wildly overstepped its bounds.
Also, to be fair to law enforcement officials, this was the same state where Waco went down not all that long ago so I can understand the instinct, right or wrong, to be very heavy-handed.
BeeCareful | 4:56 p.m. April 21, 2008
The "Little Rascals" preschool is another case of Law Enforcement
overreaching. A horrendous case where a young new mother was imprisoned for
years on false charges because she refused to admit to things she had never
done. It cost her. Her husbank left her, took her baby while she was in jail
falsely accused. Justice? Ask the Duke LaCrosse players. Texas, land of the Waco
massacre has done it again!
Sir IW | 4:53 p.m. April 21, 2008
I feel sorry for the teenage mothers who broke no law but are locked up and
having their babies taken away. None of them broke the law, why would their
breast feeding babies be stolen like this? Oh yea, CPS thinks anyone practicing
FLDS is abusive to children.... Then they have to force a judge to allow prayer
and breast feeding because CPS wont let them.
LDST | 5:03 p.m. April 21, 2008
Remove the offenders (the men) from the compound. Leave the women and children
in the comfort of their own homes, while they do their investigations. The
victims are the children and most of the women.
Conejo | 5:14 p.m. April 21, 2008
So, the mother's letter arrives two weeks later. The Attorney's letter
arrives two days after the judge makes his/her decision. Pretty convenient that
nothing arrives in Texas within a time period it would make any difference. You
can bet the request for the search warrants arrived within minutes of being
signed. How does that happen when the same people are involved? Might I suggest
(just throwing this wild idea out there) the authorities are more interested in
their own agenda than hearing anything the other side has to say.
Kaley | 5:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
This just keeps getting nastier! I am so tired of the polygamist dominating the
news. It's really making me ill. Enough of these cultist enough!!! I want
to see some that is truth and real religion in the news for a change.
The FLDS in my opinion are nothing more then religious deviates.
The FLDS in my opinion are nothing more then religious deviates.
BFM | 5:23 p.m. April 21, 2008
Come on, folks! No one has violated anyone's constitutional rights. When
there is evidence of child abuse, children are removed. The trial is later. All
that is happened thus far is that the judge has ruled there is evidence of child
abuse. They'll all have their day in court. Then maybe they'll win and
you can all be happy when 13-year-olds are returned to the compound, where they
will be given away to old men and teen-age boys will soon be kicked out so they
won't be competition for the old men. Why would anyone suggest that would
be better for these children?
Oregonian | 5:29 p.m. April 21, 2008
to "BeeCarful" - Great post!
This not only is shaping up like the McMartin preschool case but also the shameful "Wenachee Sex Ring" case which also resulted in parents spending time in prison. Everyone in Texas needs to send a letter of protest to the governer.
This not only is shaping up like the McMartin preschool case but also the shameful "Wenachee Sex Ring" case which also resulted in parents spending time in prison. Everyone in Texas needs to send a letter of protest to the governer.
Concerned | 5:48 p.m. April 21, 2008
Where is justice in the United States? It is so sad to me that now the children
of our country are being drug through thoughtless actions by our Government
officials. It seems to me that in a country that claims religious freedoms, we
are sure quick to demand conformity. This really is something that affects
every citizen. If you practice what is not popular should the government be
able to come in and put you on a type of camp? If they took my children, I
would be willing to Fight for them. I wonder if those in charge are just
looking for a fight or reason to find some action. It is scary where we are
going. People in charge sure seem to like to push around their authority. My
opinion, let the children go home until you find some hard evidence and no just
hear-say!
Red Texan | 6:27 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm sending the Governor of Texas a note of eternal thanks. Folks around
here were kind of made at him over other issues, but you guys are going to
ensure his record-setting reelection. 70-75% of Texans are thankful to the
Governor, Judge Walther and CPS for having the courage to clean up the mess Utah
& AZ sent our way--and lacked the courage to clean up themselves.
Don't mess with Texas | 7:45 p.m. April 21, 2008
I lived in houston, texas for 20 years. In that time period I observed the state
and local law agencies and all the powerful religious groups commit practically
every crime that they could get away with. I realized that Texas was
oversaturated with
evil people.(I'm not even religious.) So I decided to move to California. Took me 2 years to do it but I'm happier now. Cops are not everywhere and our governor is more human then Perry. Texas is evil. It's just a giant version of the Bush family. Now lets review the top ten lies of the criminals. #10 It's for the children #9 When it's paid off, we will stop charging you for it.(tollways) #8 I don't recall
#7 No one told me #6 First time i hear about it #5 Somebody will call you right back on that. #4 It's for freedom #3 God told me to do it #2 Cause we care and #1 To protect and serve (themselves) . Yes i know the lies are endless but these have been regurgitated over and over by the religious and government killers, thieves and liars that the majority voted into office. I hope technology brings accountability.
evil people.(I'm not even religious.) So I decided to move to California. Took me 2 years to do it but I'm happier now. Cops are not everywhere and our governor is more human then Perry. Texas is evil. It's just a giant version of the Bush family. Now lets review the top ten lies of the criminals. #10 It's for the children #9 When it's paid off, we will stop charging you for it.(tollways) #8 I don't recall
#7 No one told me #6 First time i hear about it #5 Somebody will call you right back on that. #4 It's for freedom #3 God told me to do it #2 Cause we care and #1 To protect and serve (themselves) . Yes i know the lies are endless but these have been regurgitated over and over by the religious and government killers, thieves and liars that the majority voted into office. I hope technology brings accountability.
John M | 8:02 p.m. April 21, 2008
You are scaring me, rural America! It is abundantly clear that this is a
perverted sect performing quasi-ritual child abuse, almost entirely outside the
law. Stop talking up your constitution - as a way of assuming some moral
high-ground - when really your minds are too lazy to looking into this calumny
being perpetrated on your doorstep. If just one child is being abused, all of
these 'injustices' you speak of are justified. Even if there is any
danger of such, ditto.
Or just say: you accept perverted, violating, illegal, bigamy and child abuse.
You choose.
All the 'the government is taking the children' comments on this website, which are to view to international viewers via Google News, contribute to the poor standing of America in the civilised world.
Or just say: you accept perverted, violating, illegal, bigamy and child abuse.
You choose.
All the 'the government is taking the children' comments on this website, which are to view to international viewers via Google News, contribute to the poor standing of America in the civilised world.
Anonymous | 8:20 p.m. April 21, 2008
Do you really believe those mothers interviewed knew of no young girls being
married to older men? Why did they lie if they think it's a good practice?
HD | 9:33 p.m. April 21, 2008
It is apparent that some who have posted their comments here do not understand
that laws have been broken. Even the FLDS attorney, Rod Parker, said that many
of the sects marriages were illegal and that is why the men and women do not
give their correct name. The DNA sampling will piece this together and show that
there is probable cause to further investigate these practices. Once again, no
one is violating anyones rights here.
G | 2:41 p.m. April 22, 2008
"Or just say: you accept perverted, violating, illegal, bigamy and child
abuse."
John M, I am pleased to see your opinion here, since most of the commentary is from a small part of the US, giving this place a parochial feel. But I disagree with you: your comments are equivalent to stating that if you don't support the War on Terror you are a terrorist sympathizer.
I don't approve of abuse, but as for your scorn of bigamy (between consenting adults), you are on the wrong side, it's going to be next big civil rights issue after gay marriage. With a perspective like yours, twenty years from now you'll be ostracized in Europe for your social conservatism.
John M, I am pleased to see your opinion here, since most of the commentary is from a small part of the US, giving this place a parochial feel. But I disagree with you: your comments are equivalent to stating that if you don't support the War on Terror you are a terrorist sympathizer.
I don't approve of abuse, but as for your scorn of bigamy (between consenting adults), you are on the wrong side, it's going to be next big civil rights issue after gay marriage. With a perspective like yours, twenty years from now you'll be ostracized in Europe for your social conservatism.
william | 3:57 p.m. April 22, 2008
Abuse is wrong----I don't understand why the state is keeping the babies
from their moms...there is no information that says babies were being
injured.
I believe that the state is over steping its bounds because they don't support poligamy---also I think its better to error on the side of state
the men will pay the price as they deserve--those women that knew of the marriages of children should also pay the price.
I believe that the state is over steping its bounds because they don't support poligamy---also I think its better to error on the side of state
the men will pay the price as they deserve--those women that knew of the marriages of children should also pay the price.
Deeply concerned | 9:14 p.m. April 22, 2008
Excepting or not excepting poligamy has nothing to do with this.These women are
hiding behind their so called religious beliefs and their men are hiding behind
their women. This has nothing to do with religion.It has everything to do with
neglect and abuse. Even if the call about the 16 yr old girl was not real.The
abuse that goes on there is obviously very clear through the very women who
managed to get out.And last but not least about these women being seperated from
their children. I totally argue.It would be a great injustice to hand a child
over to the very person/s who are suspected of allowing them to be abused. Also
allowing abuse to knowing go on is the same as doing it yourself.Also it is a
crime to force a young underage child to marry. This is about children's
rights.And let me tell you children are not always forthcoming when they are not
sure if they are going to be sent back with the very people that they told on.
Also I resent paying taxes for their big houses and church.If they want to have
all those children get jobs to pay for them
Deeply concerned | 9:15 p.m. April 22, 2008
Correction: I totally agree not argue.
Anonymous | 9:28 p.m. April 22, 2008
Religion has nothing to do with it. Allowing abuse to go on is just as bad as
doing it yourself. And obviously the mothers are not granted access to their
children if they are letting just that go on. When an underage children is carry
the child of an old man unwilling that is called rape. I have listened to the
stories of women and children that have made it out.If you want to hear horror
stories listen to those. In addition if these people want these big families
then they need to get up and go get a job. I was upset to say the least to find
out how much the state of Texas ( the taxpapers) have paid out to support this
so called community.
Truth | 12:52 a.m. April 23, 2008
who wants the truth
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Governor Perry, end this embarassment now! Set Texas' CPS house in order and then peform a lawful investigation into the practices of parents of our state.
Yes, it will not be as easy as circumventing the order of law! But, your constituency demands that we eliminate laziness and wretched lawlessness from our Texas agencies.