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Texas judge asks LDS Church to monitor FLDS prayer times
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Hector Ahumada | 4:48 p.m. April 21, 2008
"What is hateful to you don't do unto your neighbor."
These mothers and their children should be treated with compassion and dignity.
These mothers and their children should be treated with compassion and dignity.
Freedom_Fighter | 4:53 p.m. April 21, 2008
We can argue all day long about what we think has happened, and is happening in
the FLDS culture but there is still due process and law that has to be followed.
To kidnap 416 children and separate mothers and babies is unforgivable! This is
Nazism at it�s finest. I am absolutely in shock that this
is happening in America in 2008. I�ve been following the
news as much as I can stand it. It makes me want to vomit when I think of the
abuse of personal and civil rights and how so many people are justifying Texas
because of allegations reported in the media. The LDS people of all people
should be up in arms at this atrocity. This is the constitution hanging by a
thread as much as anything that happened to the early saints in Missouri, Ohio,
Illinois, New York, etc. etc. The truth is today it�s the
FLDS.. Tomorrow you fill in the blank. Can you imagine the government storming
in to LDS Temples with no regard for due process and sacred religion. This is a
precedent and the government will use it. Shame on all of you who condone what
Texas is doing!!
Comments continue below
Hector Ahumada | 4:54 p.m. April 21, 2008
Second time
These mothers and their children should be treated with compassion and dignity.
"What is hateful to you, don't do unto your neighbor."
These mothers and their children should be treated with compassion and dignity.
"What is hateful to you, don't do unto your neighbor."
Anonymous | 4:55 p.m. April 21, 2008
The self rightous, judgemental people who criticize this FLDS group for polygamy
seem ok with the adultry and fornication that goes on all around you. And how
about the women who have 3 or 4 kids by different fathers that you support with
your tax dollars and which goes on from one generation to another?
Those FLDS people are a paragon of virtue compared to the sewer our society has become. We certainly shoud "SAVE" those young girls so we can put them in public school to learn about safe sex at 11 years old and where to get a free abortion. What a bunch of hypocrits!!!
Those FLDS people are a paragon of virtue compared to the sewer our society has become. We certainly shoud "SAVE" those young girls so we can put them in public school to learn about safe sex at 11 years old and where to get a free abortion. What a bunch of hypocrits!!!
former CPS Investigator | 5:01 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm all for prosecuting the FLDS members who particated in, condoned and
encouraged child rape. However, I have a problem with the Judge who seems
unaware of where her Judicial powers end. It's ridiculous to drag another
religion in this to be "court prayer monitors".
As a former CPS worker, I don't understand why the younger children were not left in their homes with court-ordered social workers to meet with them every week and to educate the parents regarding the risk their children will be at several years down the road if their practices do not change. If it looks like a teenage girl is being coerced into marriage/rape, then by all means remover her. If teenage boys are being abandoned, then by all means remove them. But to remove that many kids is seriously ridiculous.
As a former CPS worker, I don't understand why the younger children were not left in their homes with court-ordered social workers to meet with them every week and to educate the parents regarding the risk their children will be at several years down the road if their practices do not change. If it looks like a teenage girl is being coerced into marriage/rape, then by all means remover her. If teenage boys are being abandoned, then by all means remove them. But to remove that many kids is seriously ridiculous.
wrz | 5:11 p.m. April 21, 2008
Isn't the taking of DNA samples an illegal invasion of privacy?
I can't wait til the FLDS lawyers get their act together and take Texas to court.
I can't wait til the FLDS lawyers get their act together and take Texas to court.
Gnostic | 5:14 p.m. April 21, 2008
I pray that the innocence of the children will be protected. The State of Texas
has launched a vicious attack on American families and should be judged very
harshly.
Me Roh | 5:09 p.m. April 21, 2008
I really do not know what goes on in peoples heads but I am with it enough to
know that the MEDIA and the whole world are under some pretty hard places. I
myself am part of the USA and I can't believe a word of what is given out.
I think that if just a few of the people that are so hateful would stop and
think twice they would reconsider. I wish some people would just go and get the
true story then it would be a diffrent story. I really don't know how some
people can lie so bad, they must have absolutley no consions.
Fred | 5:10 p.m. April 21, 2008
>>If the state wants to do their best to REUNITE the children with their
mothers, they must know WHO the mother really is to each child.<<
If the state wants to reunite the children with their mothers all they need do is return them all to the ranch and let them sort it out. I'm sure they will be able to.
If the state wants to reunite the children with their mothers all they need do is return them all to the ranch and let them sort it out. I'm sure they will be able to.
Ming | 5:11 p.m. April 21, 2008
Lots of parallels between judge Walther and Ming-the-Merciless. Is this not
Genicide?
Once Flds | 5:12 p.m. April 21, 2008
I agree. It is all a lie. If those that wanted and loved the truth they would
come see for their selves. I love it here and I have never been missused or by
any means sexually abused.
Angela | 5:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
Under no circumstances should an infant's health and wellbeing be damaged
by forcing an exclusively breastfed baby to struggle through alternative feeding
methods - These mothers MUST have access to their nursing infants!
Anonymous | 5:22 p.m. April 21, 2008
Actually Podesta, another article mentioned that some of the women that we ruled
to be over 18 had drivers licenses and income tax returns. Hmmm who should do
research
what now? | 5:30 p.m. April 21, 2008
Joseph Smith said Moroni told him God told him that many wives was a must do.
Later on, John Taylor said many wives is wrong.
Who are we supposed to believe?
Later on, John Taylor said many wives is wrong.
Who are we supposed to believe?
Surprized | 5:27 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm not sure whether the request from the judge to have LDS members monitor
the FLDS is either smart or inappropriate and stupid.
I can see some very legitimate reasons for asking it of the local LDS church leaders. However, I can see this being an request made in ignorance to the LDS church's on going efforts to gain respect in the media.
1.)She could think that we bear the responsibility because we ARE in fact connected in her thinking.
2.)She could be trying to attack the Church in an attempt to link the LDS church and FLDS together against LDS wishes.
3.)She could simply think that it is appropriate and beneficial both publicly or simply beneficial to the task at hand; to have the LDS church monitor the FLDS.(Basically for the FLDS sake to help them AND for the LDS church's media attention to be positive in the matter)
I am inclined to the latter because I tend to believe that people in her position generally want good and right things.
I just worry cause I'm not sure what the outcome will be aside from her intentions, but the world generally will find the bad; especially the media.
I can see some very legitimate reasons for asking it of the local LDS church leaders. However, I can see this being an request made in ignorance to the LDS church's on going efforts to gain respect in the media.
1.)She could think that we bear the responsibility because we ARE in fact connected in her thinking.
2.)She could be trying to attack the Church in an attempt to link the LDS church and FLDS together against LDS wishes.
3.)She could simply think that it is appropriate and beneficial both publicly or simply beneficial to the task at hand; to have the LDS church monitor the FLDS.(Basically for the FLDS sake to help them AND for the LDS church's media attention to be positive in the matter)
I am inclined to the latter because I tend to believe that people in her position generally want good and right things.
I just worry cause I'm not sure what the outcome will be aside from her intentions, but the world generally will find the bad; especially the media.
Anonymous | 5:39 p.m. April 21, 2008
For what my opinion is worth, I would say charging the fathers with bigamy would
be sort of dumb. I do not know about west TX but I know far more cases than I
like where young dads have kids with several women and do not even bother trying
to support them. These guys do not get charged with bigamy and I do not think
the FLDS folks should either.
However creepy I might think the social environment is, give the FLDS fathers partial credit also for sticking around and at least appearing to provide a supportive environment. That said, it would be interesting to know whether YFZ was self-supporting or whether people were getting public benefits.
The real problem of course is underage brides.I assume the DNA testing will help sort that out. In the rest of the world nursing mothers get their kids taken away for drug exposure, which I assume is not a problem here. Even this judge should not expect these moms to line up at breast pumps the way big city yuppies do.
Finally, I wonder if any of the women and children at the Branch Davidian compound would rather have had different ways out....
However creepy I might think the social environment is, give the FLDS fathers partial credit also for sticking around and at least appearing to provide a supportive environment. That said, it would be interesting to know whether YFZ was self-supporting or whether people were getting public benefits.
The real problem of course is underage brides.I assume the DNA testing will help sort that out. In the rest of the world nursing mothers get their kids taken away for drug exposure, which I assume is not a problem here. Even this judge should not expect these moms to line up at breast pumps the way big city yuppies do.
Finally, I wonder if any of the women and children at the Branch Davidian compound would rather have had different ways out....
A. Nony Mouse | 5:35 p.m. April 21, 2008
I don't see the problem. Both groups use the book of mormon as the basis
for their beliefs. What makes you think it'd be a stretch?
Nedra | 5:45 p.m. April 21, 2008
Why don't they take the FLDS men in to custody. They are the true culprits
and criminals. Let the woman be at the compound with strong supervision.
dignity and respect | 5:45 p.m. April 21, 2008
Yes, Hector Ahumada.
These mothers and their children SHOULD be treated with compassion and dignity.
That's why the children are being separated from the dirty old men who force underage girls to marry them into the dirty polygamous cult.
And by the way - WHERE ARE THE PATRIARCHS?
These mothers and their children SHOULD be treated with compassion and dignity.
That's why the children are being separated from the dirty old men who force underage girls to marry them into the dirty polygamous cult.
And by the way - WHERE ARE THE PATRIARCHS?
FROM VIRGINIA | 5:58 p.m. April 21, 2008
This judge needs to replaced.
Should we go into all the CPA workers homes to make sure they are not abusing their children.
A head of the CPA in Los Angeles stated on Larry King that children that are denied crayons meet one form of child abuse.
Look out the next time we take one of our children to a fast food joint will they consider that child abuse too.
Should we go into all the CPA workers homes to make sure they are not abusing their children.
A head of the CPA in Los Angeles stated on Larry King that children that are denied crayons meet one form of child abuse.
Look out the next time we take one of our children to a fast food joint will they consider that child abuse too.
Virginia | 6:14 p.m. April 21, 2008
This judge needs to be tried along with anyone with the government that jumped
the gun and removed all the children.
The CPA has been a failure when it has come to foster care and they even have change polices in the past couple of years because of their past failures.
Me and my wife are trying to get final approval to be foster parents.
Foster care now wants all foster parents to know that they are always looking for reunification of the children with there parents or blood relatives.
These children already have fine parents none of their children are fat, they do not eat junk foods, no TV, No video games, no guns, no blood sports, no drive by shootings, clean,we really need to get these children in the real world fast so they can die from drugs , murder, or heart diease.
The CPA has been a failure when it has come to foster care and they even have change polices in the past couple of years because of their past failures.
Me and my wife are trying to get final approval to be foster parents.
Foster care now wants all foster parents to know that they are always looking for reunification of the children with there parents or blood relatives.
These children already have fine parents none of their children are fat, they do not eat junk foods, no TV, No video games, no guns, no blood sports, no drive by shootings, clean,we really need to get these children in the real world fast so they can die from drugs , murder, or heart diease.
RE: FROM VIRGINIA | 6:22 p.m. April 21, 2008
It's C-P-S.
With an "S" on the end.
I'm a CPA, and I would really hate that you would ever confuse me with a CPS worker.
With an "S" on the end.
I'm a CPA, and I would really hate that you would ever confuse me with a CPS worker.
Red Texan | 6:23 p.m. April 21, 2008
Sick, sick, sick of you all FLDS apologists. Cannot believe you would cover
your eyes and ears to the suffering of these innocents.
I don't care how great their buildings or the facade that is their lifestyle--there is just too much evidence to add to that of folks who have managed to break away from this cult to believe they are anything but physically and sexually abusive of women and children.
Throw the book at them all!!!
I don't care how great their buildings or the facade that is their lifestyle--there is just too much evidence to add to that of folks who have managed to break away from this cult to believe they are anything but physically and sexually abusive of women and children.
Throw the book at them all!!!
To: Consider this | 6:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
I understand why you think the way you do and I've thought in that mind
frame before, but you are missing something. I'm not trying to be rude but
only give my point on what I believe the truth is.
First, the children were abused. I have no quarrel with that statement. I also believe that when a women says I don't know to that type of question that there is a problem. I understand that under pressure maybe she has reason. However, if she can understand what terms mean, such has "rape" and "beating" then she knows enough of what abuse means.
I'm getting to my point.
I also strongly agree with you and have made similar statements that their Agency being robbed from them is the worst thing happening there. To be robbed of this is worse than any other abuse.
Where I disagree is on the point of Abuse and their learning. I wouldn't call it abuse to teach someone that there weren't dinosaurs. I believe that everyone has the religious rights to believe as they will.
If I believe that the Book of Mormon is translation from ancient writing, no matter what science says, I'll believe.
First, the children were abused. I have no quarrel with that statement. I also believe that when a women says I don't know to that type of question that there is a problem. I understand that under pressure maybe she has reason. However, if she can understand what terms mean, such has "rape" and "beating" then she knows enough of what abuse means.
I'm getting to my point.
I also strongly agree with you and have made similar statements that their Agency being robbed from them is the worst thing happening there. To be robbed of this is worse than any other abuse.
Where I disagree is on the point of Abuse and their learning. I wouldn't call it abuse to teach someone that there weren't dinosaurs. I believe that everyone has the religious rights to believe as they will.
If I believe that the Book of Mormon is translation from ancient writing, no matter what science says, I'll believe.
Anonymous | 6:30 p.m. April 21, 2008
I totally agree with Nedra -- if its the MEN who will eventually be charged, WHY
are the women and children the ones who have been rounded up? If they can make a
blanket accusation that ALL the children are in danger of abuse, why can't
they make a blanket accusation that ALL the men are abusers? They're
traumatizing the innocent while the ones Texas asserts are guilty are running
around free.
I wonder if this judge has any children.
I'm deeply concerned that all of the action against the FLDS is coming from the SAME judge. Of course she's not going to admit she's wrong or look at anything from any other lens than the one she started with. Obviously she feels that the kids shouldn't be with their parents no matter what and can't look at any of it objectively.
I wonder if this judge has any children.
I'm deeply concerned that all of the action against the FLDS is coming from the SAME judge. Of course she's not going to admit she's wrong or look at anything from any other lens than the one she started with. Obviously she feels that the kids shouldn't be with their parents no matter what and can't look at any of it objectively.
John | 6:35 p.m. April 21, 2008
I guess my question would be,, Why didn't they take all the Catholic
children out of their homes when they had true evidence of the child molesting
that was going on in their church? I'm not necessarily for the FLDS, but I
might be the one who says shame on Texas, and get ready to write one BIG check..
Anonymous | 6:50 p.m. April 21, 2008
As someone previously said there are a whole lot of variables here. You
don't have to support bigamy, statutory rape, welfare fraud, harboring
illegal aliens and/or whatever else these people *may* have been doing to
believe that children who are still nursing need to be with their mothers.
Allow the mothers to stay with them. If they are treated with kindness and support they may come to see that they have been misled by the FLDS and have other options in their own lives. That could mean fewer families that are, ultimately, disrupted.
It's also possible that if they have adequate experience with decent and caring outsiders that they would find they had experiences to share.
Allow the mothers to stay with them. If they are treated with kindness and support they may come to see that they have been misled by the FLDS and have other options in their own lives. That could mean fewer families that are, ultimately, disrupted.
It's also possible that if they have adequate experience with decent and caring outsiders that they would find they had experiences to share.
To: Consider this (continued) | 6:49 p.m. April 21, 2008
I would say it's harmful to teach children in a way that discourages any
other thinking. But I don't know how you could classify it as abuse.
I love science and history but both are only the products of people whom are imperfect. This makes our history and science imperfect. There is never certain accuracy. I will teach my children that I don't know about Dinosaurs. Some people theorize that God placed the bones here. I really don't fly with that but because I was not there to KNOW for myself; how could I claim otherwise? I feel the necessity to acknowledge possible differences even if they are unattractive to myself.
I will teach my children to do the same. I believe dinosaurs were alive and like thinking about it. But I will always acknowledge different possibilities and if Warren Jeffs(as much as I have NO respect for him and disgust with his actions) wanted to teach that dinosaurs didn't exist. I believe it his right so long as he doesn't prevent others from saying otherwise to his children.
Teaching false doctrine doesn't destroy agency; not allowing children to know other sides(The differences of good/evil) does.
I love science and history but both are only the products of people whom are imperfect. This makes our history and science imperfect. There is never certain accuracy. I will teach my children that I don't know about Dinosaurs. Some people theorize that God placed the bones here. I really don't fly with that but because I was not there to KNOW for myself; how could I claim otherwise? I feel the necessity to acknowledge possible differences even if they are unattractive to myself.
I will teach my children to do the same. I believe dinosaurs were alive and like thinking about it. But I will always acknowledge different possibilities and if Warren Jeffs(as much as I have NO respect for him and disgust with his actions) wanted to teach that dinosaurs didn't exist. I believe it his right so long as he doesn't prevent others from saying otherwise to his children.
Teaching false doctrine doesn't destroy agency; not allowing children to know other sides(The differences of good/evil) does.
LAME in MIND | 6:54 p.m. April 21, 2008
GEEZES! Mormon Boy! Here we go with stone throwing. HA HA HA Time to stone the
Catholics! You people cannot stand up on your own cowardly feet, so now
it's time to bring the Catholic church into this FLDS B.S.!! A bunch of
tattle tail gossips! I think the Pope did his best this week to apologize for
past church abuses. (This article) is not about the Catholics. It is about
TEEXAS & FLDS Child rape, Slavery event started by your Mormon FLDS
leaders!
It Sounds like a whiny blame game from a 2 year old.
MAN, KEEP TO THE SUBJECT!....FLDS/JUDGE
It Sounds like a whiny blame game from a 2 year old.
MAN, KEEP TO THE SUBJECT!....FLDS/JUDGE
To: Consider this (Final) | 6:59 p.m. April 21, 2008
Just one more thing. I'm not criticizing you. I agree mostly. However,
agency was only taken away by not allowing the children to ever leave, to think
otherwise or interact with the world.
"But meddle not with any man for his religion: all governments ought to permit every man to enjoy his religion unmolested. No man is authorized to take away life in consequence of difference of religion, which all laws and governments ought to tolerate and protect, right or wrong. Every man has a natural, and, in our country, a constitutional right to be a false prophet, as well as a true prophet. If I show, verily, that I have the truth of God, and show that ninety-nine out of every hundred professing religious ministers are false teachers, having no authority, while they pretend to hold the keys of God�s kingdom on earth, and was to kill them because they are false teachers, it would deluge the whole world with blood." -Joseph Smith
It isn't important that someone teach prejudices. Their FORCING someone to not have the opportunity to know otherwise and learn FOR THEMSELVES; this is what is important. This is the FLDS crime; they destroyed God-given agency.
"But meddle not with any man for his religion: all governments ought to permit every man to enjoy his religion unmolested. No man is authorized to take away life in consequence of difference of religion, which all laws and governments ought to tolerate and protect, right or wrong. Every man has a natural, and, in our country, a constitutional right to be a false prophet, as well as a true prophet. If I show, verily, that I have the truth of God, and show that ninety-nine out of every hundred professing religious ministers are false teachers, having no authority, while they pretend to hold the keys of God�s kingdom on earth, and was to kill them because they are false teachers, it would deluge the whole world with blood." -Joseph Smith
It isn't important that someone teach prejudices. Their FORCING someone to not have the opportunity to know otherwise and learn FOR THEMSELVES; this is what is important. This is the FLDS crime; they destroyed God-given agency.
To Red Texan | 7:36 p.m. April 21, 2008
You need to spend some time reading the narrative of the court hearings so you will know what you're talking about. There is no EVIDENCE ! The social worker, Ms. Voss, testified that these children are being held because of a "Belief System" by the FLDS parents.
There are NO CHARGES against these people. The CPS just doesn't like their "Belief System."
What is YOUR belief system? Maybe it's offensive and they should come to your house and take YOU into custody! And throw the book at you without a trial!
Hey Freedom Fighter | 7:43 p.m. April 21, 2008
you can fill in the blank with American Indian and nobody came for us. But these
guys practice atrocities like dumping young men on the edge of town in these
here modern days as according to one of the Jeffs.These people rule without
allowing anyone to question the things that stir man's souls..one can only
imagine how lonely it must be for a young woman or man to be duped into
believing some of this yuck , all for what? So that someone's self centered
, hyped up limbado take precedent over the freedom to ask. I have teenagers in
my house and I never would rule with an iron fist, first of all my wife
wouldn't let me and second I believe them to be exhibiting the love for
expression that the good lord gave to each of us. I think back to when i was of
this age and i definitly would have questioned many things these young people
have seen and experienced. May the angels of truth continue to work through
these young people just as they have done in times past so that these old farts
get a grip on what is real not no imamation!
Karinda | 7:52 p.m. April 21, 2008
I am not Mormon, but I do have Mormon friends and have attended LDS Churches in
Princeton and Wrightstown NJ etc. This is not what these wonderful people
represent. All I can say is folks, please do some research. You will find the
compound in Texas is not what the real LDS Church is about.
Ken Goddard | 8:12 p.m. April 21, 2008
The answer is very simple. Enlist the LDS Family Services into the matter. I am
sure they could find good homes for the kids. And maybe the Mothers.
Mama | 8:12 p.m. April 21, 2008
I think it would be great if President Monson would extend the invitation to
these FLDS to come back into the church. It has been mentioned in several
settings including General Conference that those who have left the church or
those who are inactive are invited to come back. How wonderful it would be to
at least invite these folks to come back to the main body of the church. I
believe some would accept. The wonderful LDS services would provide for these
people during the transition. What do you think?
They are wrong but this is wrong | 8:16 p.m. April 21, 2008
Something is very wrong about this situation. I can't determine what it
is...but something really stinks. I think the very least Texas should do is
relocate the mothers with their children and keep the men away. Let these women
have a few years of debriefing with their children.
Finally, What?! The judge wants the LDS church to help police these folks. This proves this judge is clueless. Get someone on the bench who can see clearly.
Finally, What?! The judge wants the LDS church to help police these folks. This proves this judge is clueless. Get someone on the bench who can see clearly.
Get Smart | 8:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
Not one of you has mentioned the birth defects caused by incestual inbreeding, a
crime against
human nature. FUMERASE DEFICIENCY can result in
an IQ of 25 plus numerous medical problems.
AZ. and Utah paid out millions for enabling FLDS
to perpetuate their practices.
On tv this morning, did you notice the men
claimed only 2-3-4 children, obviously by their
first legal wife? Those children are the only
children they are "responsible" for. The other
wives collect welfare in the name of being "single"
mothers. FRAUD, LIES, and DECEIT!!!
Go ATTY. GEN. of TEXAS! How smart you are!
Protect society from unnecessary birth defects
that FLDS members deem "a will of God" and prevent
taxpayers from paying for unnessary suffering!
THE DNA WILL ALSO TELL WHO IS A FUMERASE DEFICIENCY
CARRIER...NOW, ARE YOU GETTING SMART?
human nature. FUMERASE DEFICIENCY can result in
an IQ of 25 plus numerous medical problems.
AZ. and Utah paid out millions for enabling FLDS
to perpetuate their practices.
On tv this morning, did you notice the men
claimed only 2-3-4 children, obviously by their
first legal wife? Those children are the only
children they are "responsible" for. The other
wives collect welfare in the name of being "single"
mothers. FRAUD, LIES, and DECEIT!!!
Go ATTY. GEN. of TEXAS! How smart you are!
Protect society from unnecessary birth defects
that FLDS members deem "a will of God" and prevent
taxpayers from paying for unnessary suffering!
THE DNA WILL ALSO TELL WHO IS A FUMERASE DEFICIENCY
CARRIER...NOW, ARE YOU GETTING SMART?
Practice what you preach | 8:21 p.m. April 21, 2008
Seperation of church and state works both ways. Don't ask another church to
do the governments job. This judge needs to be removed.
Is the ACLU going to pick up on this request?
Is the ACLU going to pick up on this request?
Mike Richards | 8:42 p.m. April 21, 2008
What a game of gossip. "I heard this ..." and "I heard that
..." and "Did you hear that ... ".
How about if we focus for the next few hours on little boys and little girls that don't have any idea why they can't be part of their own family?
How about if somebody starts to negotiate with the hostage-holders to see if they'll release a few of the hostages. Maybe somebody can convince them to let all of the nursing babies go home with their mothers. The mothers know who their babies are. They won't need a DNA test to identify their own children.
How about if we focus for the next few hours on little boys and little girls that don't have any idea why they can't be part of their own family?
How about if somebody starts to negotiate with the hostage-holders to see if they'll release a few of the hostages. Maybe somebody can convince them to let all of the nursing babies go home with their mothers. The mothers know who their babies are. They won't need a DNA test to identify their own children.
DESPICABLE | 8:46 p.m. April 21, 2008
What if my neighbor called in to the authorities and said I was abusing my
children, when I really was simply disciplining them? Will they come take my
wife and children away from me? Based upon a phone call? Based upon
"evidence" that they find when they raid my home?
Warren Jeffs, inmate/prophet | 9:22 p.m. April 21, 2008
Why are they continuing to follow Warren Jeffs when he has stated publicly that
he is NOT a prophet? When he gets to prison, he's going to find out what
rape and abuse are all about. I predict he'll last a year.
He did have a great looking log cabin...I wonder if it's for sale?
He did have a great looking log cabin...I wonder if it's for sale?
Anonymous | 9:35 p.m. April 21, 2008
If I walked into a compound and saw a picture of a convicted child rapist on the
wall of every room, that alone might cause me to seize children.
Why ask the LDS to monitor prayers? It might be just as appropriate to ask a bunch of first amendment fanatics from different faiths. At the same time, I HOPE the attorneys have some sophistication about the kind of social pressures that might come up during these prayer sessions. Think domestic violence dynamics on steroids in terms of social dynamics.
I think it is presumptuous of the judge to think that local LDS members might be called to help oversee people from the FLDS.On the other hand, I too thought that might be the closest to culturally compatible of any option the TX CPS might come up with. I think the ethos of self-siufficiency is also compatible, but I would sure pray long and hard about whether I was really called to take this on.
Why ask the LDS to monitor prayers? It might be just as appropriate to ask a bunch of first amendment fanatics from different faiths. At the same time, I HOPE the attorneys have some sophistication about the kind of social pressures that might come up during these prayer sessions. Think domestic violence dynamics on steroids in terms of social dynamics.
I think it is presumptuous of the judge to think that local LDS members might be called to help oversee people from the FLDS.On the other hand, I too thought that might be the closest to culturally compatible of any option the TX CPS might come up with. I think the ethos of self-siufficiency is also compatible, but I would sure pray long and hard about whether I was really called to take this on.
Well | 9:44 p.m. April 21, 2008
All of this DNA testing could come in handy if someone needs an organ transplant
during all of this chaos. So, why can't these women go home with the
children, and all of the men be removed until this is sorted out. What will
happen to these kids. They will go to public schools and be introduced to the
new heroin for the price of school lunch. They will learn how to be rude and
disprutive in class. Many will be sexually abused in foster care. All will lose
the ability to bond and develop attachment disorders to some degree. They will
most likely shun all religion and lose the ability to have faith in any system
of government. They will have anger management issues and depression. These
children who have lived on breast milk and organic home grown food, will be
physically damaged as well. Of course the CPS division will be willing to pay to
have all of these children eventually medicated with prescription medications to
try to solve these issues. A terrible thing happens when a child is removed from
its mother. If I were one of these people and rounded up, I wouldn't talk
either.
To:Anonymous at 9:35 | 9:56 p.m. April 21, 2008
Well, have you read the early history of Brigham Young and the practices in Utah
while polygamy was legal? So...Having a picture of a former prophet does not
give an agency rights to seize children. I am from Utah, am a by-product of the
failed polygamy raids in the 50's. I can go testify to that Judge exactly
what will happen to these children in the future if they are removed from their
mothers. Believe me...There are a lot worse predators out in the world waiting
to pounce on people such as these. Of course...these women will eventually feel
like they are lucky that anybody would marry them. This is wrong. Remove the men
as the early church did. I live in Utah and would be more than willing to take
in as many of these women as I could house and the children as well for as long
as it takes to protect them and sort out the facts, not just premises.Let us
look to the 2nd commandment to guide our compassion for these Americans. In the
mean time.Keep praying. It is really all they've got.
SJ Bobkins | 10:00 p.m. April 21, 2008
The LDS Church HAS TO Avoid any connection with the FLDS. The present confusion
will only be made worse if there is a link of any kind between the groups. Let
the FLDS chief child abuse director Jessop deal with worship under the nose of
law enforcement.
Matt in Tucson | 10:06 p.m. April 21, 2008
To all the people saying the call was not fraudulent -- get a clue. Even Texas
is not saying the call is legit. Well before "Sarah" was revealed the
search warrant revealed blatantly wrong information, such as the location of
Barlow. If you are going to make some argument about the FLDS, make it.
But defending the phone call is purely stupid. In the first days of the raid the "gentile/outsider" discrepancy was pointed out, as well as the fact that Barlow had an alibi from an adversarial source -- his probation officer.
If anyone says this is not a case of persecution the repeated defenses of the phone call are proof that they are wrong. Why would any rational person say that the phone calls were legit?
But defending the phone call is purely stupid. In the first days of the raid the "gentile/outsider" discrepancy was pointed out, as well as the fact that Barlow had an alibi from an adversarial source -- his probation officer.
If anyone says this is not a case of persecution the repeated defenses of the phone call are proof that they are wrong. Why would any rational person say that the phone calls were legit?
Let's be consistent | 10:17 p.m. April 21, 2008
If this really isn't about religion, let's force DNA testing on
everyone. There are 100,000 estimated children, boys and girls, abused by
Catholic Priests. Let's DNA test all of them and all the children... all
Catholics, including the Pope, just in case. That, of course, makes no sense
but neither does DNA testing an entire religion, at least all of them in Texas.
It's not legal and it's not constitutional. These people's
rights are being trampled on by the state of Texas, all under false pretenses.
It's all about religion... the FLDS are no evangelicals and they are in the
wrong place.
Stop it | 10:25 p.m. April 21, 2008
isn't it obvious that these boards are LOADED with polygs and sympathizers.
Think you can reason with them? Think again. Don't waste your breath.
They're trying to create another Short Creek. It won't happen.
They're just nailing extra nails in the polyg coffin with their silly
charade.
shecky | 10:29 p.m. April 21, 2008
This whole thing has to remind one of another Texan's "preemptive
strike" that didn't go quite as well as planned, because it was not
very well planned. The judge's request to have LDS oversight is another in
a series of ill advised moves based on a lack of understanding of two different
cultures. And they are different.
Personally, though I'm not a big fan of the FLDS group, I think that their basic constitutional rights have been absolutely disregarded in this situation. Can anyone imagine any other religious group having all of their children placed in foster care based upon a phone call? A bogus phone call?
I hope Texas is soon entertained with a very large pile of lawsuits. I thought I could never suggest that these guys make the Utah Legislature look like the Founding Fathers.
Personally, though I'm not a big fan of the FLDS group, I think that their basic constitutional rights have been absolutely disregarded in this situation. Can anyone imagine any other religious group having all of their children placed in foster care based upon a phone call? A bogus phone call?
I hope Texas is soon entertained with a very large pile of lawsuits. I thought I could never suggest that these guys make the Utah Legislature look like the Founding Fathers.
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Texas State Troopers run the gate of the San Angelo Coliseum where security is extremely tight. Authorities have begun collecting DNA samples from children taken from the Fundamentalist LDS Church's YFZ Ranch.
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The FLDS are secretive and are obviously hiding something. They still worship that pervert Warren Jeffs. His picture is STILL on the walls of those homes.
Maybe if the FLDS were a little bit more honest about who they are, they wouldn't be in this mess.