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Texas LDS deal with confusion
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convoluted | 1:59 p.m. April 21, 2008
The more I read these posts on Mormonism and its different sects, the more
convoluted it appears to be.
My heart goes out to my Mormon brothers and sisters.
My heart goes out to my Mormon brothers and sisters.
MEB | 2:05 p.m. April 21, 2008
Gayle - Thank you a million times. Thank you for being a good, intelligent,
understanding, Christian. The world needs more people like you - short on
judgement, long on compassion. You are dead on with your assessment of the
situation.
It is really disheartening to watch this whole thing unfold. Too often in this world, children suffer for the behavior/decisions/lawlessness of their parents. This is no exception.
It is really disheartening to watch this whole thing unfold. Too often in this world, children suffer for the behavior/decisions/lawlessness of their parents. This is no exception.
Comments continue below
dan | 2:12 p.m. April 21, 2008
Most people perceive the FLDS as cousins of LDS and that's the way it is.
They've rejected many things and kept others but the origin was the very
same. LDS should be emotionally the closest in the world to them in this
difficult time.
A Member From Texas | 2:14 p.m. April 21, 2008
I agree that saying there's "no connection" is stretching it a
bit. The connection existed in the late 19th century when the church still
practiced plural marriage. The vast majority of members accepted President
Woodruff's revelation ending, but not repudiating, the practice. The
reasons cited by President Woodruff were telling: he said the Lord showed him
the church was faced with extinction and the loss of its temples and their
saving ordinancs if they continued to defy the law. Perhaps the FLDS may come to
the same conclusion, somewhat belatedly, that "marrying" girls as
young as 12 or 13 will mean the destruction of their community. And apparently,
this "marrying" of younger girls was an innovation added by Warren
Jeffs, contrary to the teachings of his father, Rulon Jeffs. If they can
jettison Warren, they can get rid of some of the heat they're under.
I try, I really do! | 2:15 p.m. April 21, 2008
I do admire many LDS people and believe you me I do know the difference between
these two groups. Child Abuse ...was and has been present from the Flds people
as the one of he lost boys stated this morning on tv..how they are weeded out ,
blamed for small misgivings then lead to edge of town to survive on their own.
Even an old yella dog probably has more rights than that as I look at each of my
children along with how my LDS neighbors raise their children. This has made me
thankful that i do have children who appreciate these people of the LDS Faith
and I have reminded them that we will one day have to stand up for them once
again. Although we may not follow their religion , we do respect the respect
given when it is given. My family is of a high moral character, yet very goal
oriented, I find that in the LDS people who know the value of a good education.
We as a family have witnessed all the heart breaks and triumphs along with
defeats the community has had to endure. We know the difference because of them!
Confused | 2:15 p.m. April 21, 2008
I am a devout Christen who happens to be a member of the LDS church (Mormons).
Yes main stream Mormons can embarrass the heck out of me. These FLDS should all
be thrown in Jail for their wicked child abusing and brain washing women
tendencies. Main Stream Mormons should not be so self righteous
Johnnylingo | 2:35 p.m. April 21, 2008
A member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognizes,
sustains, and supports its living prophet who is God's chosen and annointed
to be the Lord's mouthpiece on the earth. Today, this is Thomas S. Monson.
In 1890, when polygamy was discontinued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka "the Mormons") Wilford Woodruff was the prophet and he was shown by revelation, by the Lord, what would happen to the Church and its members if the practice of polygamy was not stopped (see Doctrine and Covenants "Official Declaration 1"). The Manifesto was ratified in the General Conference on Oct. 6, 1890.
If the FLDS recognize someone else other than President Monson as their "prophet", then they cannot be members of the LDS Church and they are apostate.
I don't believe the Lutherans have any connection with the Catholic Church, give tithes to the Vatican, or recognize Pope Benedict XVI as their leader.
I don't think the FLDS recognize Pres. Monson as a prophet, pay tithes to the LDS Church, or adhere to ALL of its teachings - hence these are two DIFFERENT churches with a common origin.
In 1890, when polygamy was discontinued in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka "the Mormons") Wilford Woodruff was the prophet and he was shown by revelation, by the Lord, what would happen to the Church and its members if the practice of polygamy was not stopped (see Doctrine and Covenants "Official Declaration 1"). The Manifesto was ratified in the General Conference on Oct. 6, 1890.
If the FLDS recognize someone else other than President Monson as their "prophet", then they cannot be members of the LDS Church and they are apostate.
I don't believe the Lutherans have any connection with the Catholic Church, give tithes to the Vatican, or recognize Pope Benedict XVI as their leader.
I don't think the FLDS recognize Pres. Monson as a prophet, pay tithes to the LDS Church, or adhere to ALL of its teachings - hence these are two DIFFERENT churches with a common origin.
To: One Not Confused | 2:37 p.m. April 21, 2008
I wasn't implying that the LDS needed to keep track of FLDS families. I
was asking how they would keep track of their own families. I assumed that
being FLDS that they would be as concerned with family history as the LDS (going
back years ago, weren't the LDS concerned with that in the beginning, or is
it a more recent thing, after the FLDS took off on their own?)
its_Chet | 2:32 p.m. April 21, 2008
Any member of the Church who correctly understands Church History and has a
strong testimony will not see it as
�ugly�. Joseph Smith was commanded by
God to practice polygamy and later to instruct specific members to practice it
as well. This was not a mistake, and it causes me no shame, though I admit that
I, like Brigham Young, would wish for death if I knew the Prophet was about to
command me to practice polygamy. Wilford Woodruff received a revelation from
God commanding the Church to stop practicing polygamy, and God gave His reasons
for it. It was not statehood. It was not a quest for worldly acceptance. It
was to prevent the Church from being obliterated by the government, as it
enforced the anti-polygamy laws it had enacted.
It doesn�t matter that Wilford Woodruff wrote a proclamation to the Church that opened with �To Whom it Concerns�, in which he discussed and paraphrased the revelation, and that people mistakenly believe this to be the revelation itself, as opposed to a proclamation based on it. It doesn�t matter that polygamy was practiced temporarily, because that doesn�t make it wrong to have done it.
We must understand our history.
It doesn�t matter that Wilford Woodruff wrote a proclamation to the Church that opened with �To Whom it Concerns�, in which he discussed and paraphrased the revelation, and that people mistakenly believe this to be the revelation itself, as opposed to a proclamation based on it. It doesn�t matter that polygamy was practiced temporarily, because that doesn�t make it wrong to have done it.
We must understand our history.
to FYI | 2:32 p.m. April 21, 2008
"the church holds the copyright to the word "Mormon". No other
church, no matter what they think, can use this word. Not only that, no other
church, no matter what they think, has the authority to act in the name of
God."
The LDS may be able to enforce a copyright but they'll never divorce the believers in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon in the public's mind because it's not nearly as clean and simple as you and the LDS -- masters of public relations and owners of so much media that they are -- want it to be. Use your MA education and read some church history. ...not the whitewashed versions -- the actual events.
As for being the only authority of God's name, you know as well as I do that they couldn't get anything like a copyright on that. One, they can't prove it. And two, there's a lot of competition -- much more than just the FLDS -- for that title!
PS Do you ever suspect that the reason the LDS has a copyright on the name "Mormon" is that they're the only people who ever applied for it?
The LDS may be able to enforce a copyright but they'll never divorce the believers in Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon in the public's mind because it's not nearly as clean and simple as you and the LDS -- masters of public relations and owners of so much media that they are -- want it to be. Use your MA education and read some church history. ...not the whitewashed versions -- the actual events.
As for being the only authority of God's name, you know as well as I do that they couldn't get anything like a copyright on that. One, they can't prove it. And two, there's a lot of competition -- much more than just the FLDS -- for that title!
PS Do you ever suspect that the reason the LDS has a copyright on the name "Mormon" is that they're the only people who ever applied for it?
stupid | 2:49 p.m. April 21, 2008
The best part about LDS articles is watching the stupid come out in the comments
section!
One Not Confused | 2:53 p.m. April 21, 2008
Ref:Family History
....obviuosly a paradox exists here. Not being FLDS I can't give you an answer....but if it is important for them in their beliefs then why are they muddying the water and confusing the issue of tracing proper ancestry lines.....I seriously doubt that they choose their own ancestry based on not knowing their true last names. Final thought....it's their problem.
....obviuosly a paradox exists here. Not being FLDS I can't give you an answer....but if it is important for them in their beliefs then why are they muddying the water and confusing the issue of tracing proper ancestry lines.....I seriously doubt that they choose their own ancestry based on not knowing their true last names. Final thought....it's their problem.
Re: Tom | 2:49 p.m. April 21, 2008
The FDLS actually DO practice the Word of Wisdom. Mainstream LDS people
generally and widely practice a very watered-down Word of Wisdom. I'm
talking about caffeinated beverages, immodest dress and decorum, and
overconsumption of meat etc...
BEL: If more people thought along the lines you do (i.e. out of HUMAN COMPASSION and not out of HOW CAN I DEFLECT ANY NEGATIVITY OFF MYSELF), the world would be an infinitely better place.
BEL: If more people thought along the lines you do (i.e. out of HUMAN COMPASSION and not out of HOW CAN I DEFLECT ANY NEGATIVITY OFF MYSELF), the world would be an infinitely better place.
To: stupid | 2:53 p.m. April 21, 2008
"You can't fix stupid." Forest Gump knew what he was talking
about. :o)
Stupid 2 | 2:54 p.m. April 21, 2008
Here Here Stupid
Gary L. | 3:03 p.m. April 21, 2008
Sorry if this error in the article has already been pointed out. The article
stated that the FLDS church has nothing in common with the LDS church.
Actually, the scriptural text called The Book of Mormon is something that both
cults have in common.
Dorothy White. | 2:56 p.m. April 21, 2008
I've made many comments but none have been published. Probably because of
the tone of the comments. I'm very upset for what has happened to the
little children. Now is there child abuse when the Jehovah Witness parents
prohibit their children from getting what society calls proper correct treatment
by way of blood transfusions. How about some other religions who don't
allow their children hospital care but rely on practioners? Is this child abuse
when the children end up dying? Just asking the question. Lets keep the thread
going. Round up the FLDS children now and next the JW's and so on.
Happy Girl | 2:57 p.m. April 21, 2008
It seems a little odd that people argue the connectivity of the FLDS & the
LDS people. Yes, the FLDS broke off from the LDS faith, and both groups share
SOME beliefs (but not all). However, the argument that the doctrine and general
religion practiced by the FLDS is the same as that of the LDS church is
ludicrous. Most Christian churches can claim to have broken off from another
church (most tie to the Catholic Church) because they felt their parent church
had strayed from its core doctrine. Can you say that the beliefs &
doctrines of the Lutherans and Baptists and Methodists are the same as
Catholics? Absolutely not! Yet, those demoninations have the same roots. Take
a look at your own church history before you start pointing fingers.
It is unfortunate that the children, who are the victims in this sad situation, have to endure any of fallout. Pray for them! And pray for those families who are caring for the children to be patient and full of love, regardless of the differences in their religious beliefs.
It is unfortunate that the children, who are the victims in this sad situation, have to endure any of fallout. Pray for them! And pray for those families who are caring for the children to be patient and full of love, regardless of the differences in their religious beliefs.
Confusion | 3:00 p.m. April 21, 2008
They deal confusion? THEY deal with confusion? What about the people who look at
their way of life? You talk about confusion! I guess this sort of confusions is
what happens when worlds collide.
I agree, we need to come to... | 3:09 p.m. April 21, 2008
I agree, we (LDS people) need to come to terms with our history, what really
happened, WHY it happened (the most interesting and troubling question), and
what we "should do about it". Until we do this, this festering wound
of polygamy/weirdness will haunt us everywhere we go. Most of us do not know
the real nasty history of this practice among our early ancestors in the church.
We have had this hidden from us. The people currently engaging in this
practice are doing SOME of the same things our antecedants did (marrying very
young girls, brainwashing women into entering into the practice, etc.). We
don't like the mirror we are looking into, it troubles us, for reasons most
of us are not sure of. What WE need to do, since our leaders will not do it, is
to admit that we have learned about the history of this practice amongst us, we
DENOUNCE it as having been a mistake, we VOW never to do it again (at least the
way it was done before...), and categorically denounce what is occuring now as
wrong, against the laws of man and God. Maybe then we can go forward...
Jamie | 3:21 p.m. April 21, 2008
Lol! I agree with stupid. The comments make a very boring afternoon into a
hilarious outbreak of laughter within the office. Keep up the funny stuff DN. It
makes ones day go well.
Re stupid | 3:22 p.m. April 21, 2008
Thank you. You have stated the obvious for all those who can't see it for
themselves.
Zippy the Pinhead | 3:37 p.m. April 21, 2008
The Texan the yelled the word "compound" is most likely not the
sharpest tool in the shed. If you can�t say something
nice, say something surrealistic.
j | 3:44 p.m. April 21, 2008
People have the right to believe and practice their religion in the United
States. However, there is ample precedent that the state and federal courts can
intervene on behalf of children based on standards that supercede local
communities or religious practices.
A Jehovah's witness child can not be prohibited from recieving a life saving blood transfusion. Female circumcision is illegal for underage women who by law are not able to provide consent. An FLDS male member in a position of authority who has multiple children born from girls less than 18 years old and benefits from the monetary welfare payments of the federal government is a serial rapist and commiting fraud.
While FLDS and LDS are now distant it does not give the LDS the right morally wash their hands of downstream consequences of past actions just becuase they have disavowed the FLDS. The US, Germany, the church and many others still debate and struggle with the fact that their actions against people and groups in the past has done signifcant damage. It is all our responsibility to understand root causes and ensure that history does not repeat itself.
A Jehovah's witness child can not be prohibited from recieving a life saving blood transfusion. Female circumcision is illegal for underage women who by law are not able to provide consent. An FLDS male member in a position of authority who has multiple children born from girls less than 18 years old and benefits from the monetary welfare payments of the federal government is a serial rapist and commiting fraud.
While FLDS and LDS are now distant it does not give the LDS the right morally wash their hands of downstream consequences of past actions just becuase they have disavowed the FLDS. The US, Germany, the church and many others still debate and struggle with the fact that their actions against people and groups in the past has done signifcant damage. It is all our responsibility to understand root causes and ensure that history does not repeat itself.
stupid is as stupid does | 3:50 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'll say their are a few stupids' on here. I'm stupid as well for
reading all this stupid stuff. It's all so funny and stupid that my boss
has to come over and slap me stupid so that i will get my stupid work done.
Southern Born | 3:47 p.m. April 21, 2008
Affiliating the FLDS with the LDS church is as wrong as affiliating the Branch
Davidians, (Waco crazy group), with the Southern Baptists. You can't.
It's a terrible and inaccurate association. FLDS are not Mormons any more
than Lutherans are Catholics. Yes there are similarities but no one would dare
call the Branch Davidians, Baptists, or Lutherans, Catholics. FLDS are not
Mormons and are not in any way a part of the LDS church.
Alex | 3:47 p.m. April 21, 2008
"WE need to do, since our leaders will not do it, is to admit that we have
learned about the history of this practice amongst us, we DENOUNCE it as having
been a mistake, we VOW never to do it again (at least the way it was done
before...), and categorically denounce what is occuring now as wrong, against
the laws of man and God. Maybe then we can go forward... "
Speak for yourself.
Speak for yourself.
to I agree... | 3:50 p.m. April 21, 2008
GOOD FOR YOU!!!
You are an honest, forthright person.
You are an honest, forthright person.
DH | 3:51 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm Mormon and I love it.
Richard G. | 3:55 p.m. April 21, 2008
Maybe if the LDS Church would completely renounce polygamy -- not just in this
life but also in the afterlife -- confusion would be less likely.
Sue | 3:57 p.m. April 21, 2008
I have one question to ask you people spouting off like you personally saw them
abuse thier children, every word you have been spoon fed in this case is a lie,
a crank telephone seperated 400 children from their families. this is
kidnapping, and it sure looks like a set up by the texas authorities to me. If
they came to where you live and maybe 3 people in your town had broken a law but
they weren't sure would it be ok with you if they stole every child in your
town and warehoused them in a sports arena with total strangers , then put them
in an already overloaded foster care system, that frankly has has several cases
of sexual abuse proven and prosecuted in the last couple of years, even after
they found out that the original reason they got a warrent to come to your town
was a hoax? Now wouldn't you be screaming where are my constitutional
rights? We just trampled all over these americans constitutional rights. Let
this witch hunt continue and see whose children are next.
Re: come to terms with our histo | 3:58 p.m. April 21, 2008
Sadly, you're mistaken on nearly every point.
Although there were instances of abuse in the way some of our ancestors practiced polygamy, the exact same types of abuse occurred in monogamous marriages.
There is nothing wrong, per se, with the practice of polygamy. It has been practiced in many lands and cultures for thousands of years. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and many, many prophets of the Old Testament practiced polygamy.
What makes it wrong in our current society is that it is against the law and the current norms of society.
Also, you can't compare marrying ages today with marrying ages of a century ago. Customs and cultures are constantly changing and the norms of today often have no correlation with the norms of yesterday.
Polygamy is not some deep dark secret that people need to be ashamed of or come to terms with.
Although there were instances of abuse in the way some of our ancestors practiced polygamy, the exact same types of abuse occurred in monogamous marriages.
There is nothing wrong, per se, with the practice of polygamy. It has been practiced in many lands and cultures for thousands of years. Abraham, Issac, Jacob and many, many prophets of the Old Testament practiced polygamy.
What makes it wrong in our current society is that it is against the law and the current norms of society.
Also, you can't compare marrying ages today with marrying ages of a century ago. Customs and cultures are constantly changing and the norms of today often have no correlation with the norms of yesterday.
Polygamy is not some deep dark secret that people need to be ashamed of or come to terms with.
Now i feel better | 4:13 p.m. April 21, 2008
as i have a tv, car, wife and they all work.
wallyworld | 4:15 p.m. April 21, 2008
I don't see why everyone is getting all bent out of shape over this. In
Texas it's all over the news eveyday, usually the top story.
So these people call themselves FLDS. If you go to wikapedia, or what ever the spelling is, there is a section called the "Latter-Day Movement". There you can find links to churches other than the FLDS or the Community of Christ aka RLDS that have something before The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints title that claim to be the "True" Church. One even calls themselves "The Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They even post their own verison of the 13 Articles of Faith and other beliefs etc.
So all I know is I'm not to worried about these FLDS people, they can go about their business as I go about mine.
I believe that the LDS Church is true, just like I suppose they, the FLDS, believe their right and the other Christian faiths believe their right also.
That's why I LOVE this country, Freedom of Religion. It's all about faith and what YOU believe.
Besides what if the Muslims turn out to be right????
So these people call themselves FLDS. If you go to wikapedia, or what ever the spelling is, there is a section called the "Latter-Day Movement". There you can find links to churches other than the FLDS or the Community of Christ aka RLDS that have something before The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints title that claim to be the "True" Church. One even calls themselves "The Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They even post their own verison of the 13 Articles of Faith and other beliefs etc.
So all I know is I'm not to worried about these FLDS people, they can go about their business as I go about mine.
I believe that the LDS Church is true, just like I suppose they, the FLDS, believe their right and the other Christian faiths believe their right also.
That's why I LOVE this country, Freedom of Religion. It's all about faith and what YOU believe.
Besides what if the Muslims turn out to be right????
shadow | 4:18 p.m. April 21, 2008
Lots of misrepresentations here. Let's clear the air.
Mormons are not Christians. Protestants and Catholics hold a core set of beliefs that make them Christians. The umbrella is large enough. A Presbyterian, a UMC, a Russian Orthodox, and a RC can say a prayer together and all will feel that the other is a Christian. It is a core of belief: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, saved by the blood and grace that puts them all on the same page. Not works. Or late prophecy.
Mormon thought is not in that core. Thus they have been left out by the Christians since... the Mormons told them off in Missouri and went off to Utah, etc.
Now, the FLDS do claim to be Mormons. It is up to the LDS in Salt Lake City to say Yeah or Nay? What is the core set of beliefs and do the FLDS fit, etc.? (The question of the RLDS and their new name is another story).
Now, here is an interesting problem. If the children of the FLDS cannot return to the compound, etc., and they get foster care, can the foster care include LDS families?
Oh, the plot just thickened.............
The Shadow Knows.
Mormons are not Christians. Protestants and Catholics hold a core set of beliefs that make them Christians. The umbrella is large enough. A Presbyterian, a UMC, a Russian Orthodox, and a RC can say a prayer together and all will feel that the other is a Christian. It is a core of belief: Father, Son, Holy Spirit, saved by the blood and grace that puts them all on the same page. Not works. Or late prophecy.
Mormon thought is not in that core. Thus they have been left out by the Christians since... the Mormons told them off in Missouri and went off to Utah, etc.
Now, the FLDS do claim to be Mormons. It is up to the LDS in Salt Lake City to say Yeah or Nay? What is the core set of beliefs and do the FLDS fit, etc.? (The question of the RLDS and their new name is another story).
Now, here is an interesting problem. If the children of the FLDS cannot return to the compound, etc., and they get foster care, can the foster care include LDS families?
Oh, the plot just thickened.............
The Shadow Knows.
Admit It | 4:19 p.m. April 21, 2008
Stop being afraid to admit that LDS and FLDS are SERIOUSLY CONNECTED. Based on
the Book of Mormon and the restoration by Joseph Smith - how can you say they
are not?? Now, the LIFESTYLE and the social organization of each church is VERY
DIFFERENT. That is true. Plus, every LDS person should know that they
certainly DO BELIEVE IN POLYGAMY - it's called eternal marriage and we all
know that one man can be sealed to many wives... but the women cannot.
That's called POLYGAMY, but not to be practiced until the hereafter. Facts
are facts. Let's help these FLDS to find the right way, not pretend we
don't know what they are about and shun them.
Deseret News?????? | 4:22 p.m. April 21, 2008
I understand Deseret News wants to be balanced, and avoid being accused of
censorship, but why is that I and other people who post here are not having our
rebuttals of other posters' antagonisms of us posted, and yet we have
people posting said antagonism, some people attempting to besmirch the
Church's history? Some of the stuff I'm seeing posted here fits into
the "abusive" and "offensive" categories much more than
anything I've ever unsuccessfully tried to post.
Is this supposed to be where Church members come for some sort of masochistic derision? I can get this kind of grief at the Washington Post if I want it. I admit I haven't lived in Salt Lake City for a while, and I may not be up on local, current events, but doesn't the Church still own the Deseret News? Can't we filter out just a little of posts claiming Joseph Smith was a monster and the Church is a cult?
Is this supposed to be where Church members come for some sort of masochistic derision? I can get this kind of grief at the Washington Post if I want it. I admit I haven't lived in Salt Lake City for a while, and I may not be up on local, current events, but doesn't the Church still own the Deseret News? Can't we filter out just a little of posts claiming Joseph Smith was a monster and the Church is a cult?
Anonymous | 4:29 p.m. April 21, 2008
TO know the truth about flds go to
...captivefldschildren.org
...captivefldschildren.org
Freedom_Fighter | 4:36 p.m. April 21, 2008
We can argue all day long about what we think has happened, and is happening in
the FLDS culture but there is still due process and law that has to be followed.
To kidnap 416 children and separate mothers and babies is unforgivable! This is
Nazism at it�s finest. I am absolutely in shock that this
is happening in America in 2008. I�ve been following the
news as much as I can stand it. It makes me want to vomit when I think of the
abuse of personal and civil rights and how so many people are justifying Texas
because of allegations reported in the media. The LDS people of all people
should be up in arms at this atrocity. This is the constitution hanging by a
thread as much as anything that happened to the early saints in Missouri, Ohio,
Illinois, New York, etc. etc. The truth is today it�s the
FLDS.. Tomorrow you fill in the blank. Can you imagine the government storming
in to LDS Temples with no regard for due process and sacred religion. This is a
precedent and the government will use it.
Not Ashamed | 4:32 p.m. April 21, 2008
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints by choice. I
was born Catholic, and while I have a lot of respect for that religion, I chose
to be baptized by someone with authority from God and join His Church.
Before doing so, I made peace with all of the pieces of Church History that at a passing glance may seem troubling. I read many books. I did years of research. I got my answers and I joined the Church. I have never regretted it. The Church is true, no matter what the roving peanut gallery says. I once defended the Church from the outside. Now I defend it from the inside.
I am not ashamed of the heritage I have inherited. When I meet Joseph Smith, Parley P Pratt, Heber C Kimball, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc., my concern will be wether or not they are ashamed of me, not vice versa.
Obeying the commandments of God is not a mistake, and nothing to be ashamed of. I am thankful for my opportunity to do so, and I do not armchair quarterback those who obeyed commandments that I do not have to.
Before doing so, I made peace with all of the pieces of Church History that at a passing glance may seem troubling. I read many books. I did years of research. I got my answers and I joined the Church. I have never regretted it. The Church is true, no matter what the roving peanut gallery says. I once defended the Church from the outside. Now I defend it from the inside.
I am not ashamed of the heritage I have inherited. When I meet Joseph Smith, Parley P Pratt, Heber C Kimball, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc., my concern will be wether or not they are ashamed of me, not vice versa.
Obeying the commandments of God is not a mistake, and nothing to be ashamed of. I am thankful for my opportunity to do so, and I do not armchair quarterback those who obeyed commandments that I do not have to.
compare and contrast | 4:38 p.m. April 21, 2008
The FLDS is to LDS as Taliban is to Islam
Loodie | 4:33 p.m. April 21, 2008
The Presbyterians and Lutherans and Catholics and any other Christian church,
including the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints all use the Bible. We
all believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore, we are all "connected", RIGHT.
We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. However, the FLDS
(which, btw, doesn't even use the name of Jesus Christ in their title)broke
off from the LDS Church A LONG TIME AGO, just like the Presbyterians and
Lutherans, etc. broke off from the Catholic Church. The MAIN difference between
the LDS Church and ALL other churches is the belief of the restoration of the
power of the holy priesthood to the earth and our belief in modern revelation.
Re: I agree we need to come | 4:36 p.m. April 21, 2008
You stated this so perfectly. Why can't our church (LDS) just apologize
for polygamy and admit they made a mistake. Being able to admit mistakes must
be a Heavenly attribute. This act of defending it while distancing our self is
getting to be quite the tight rope walk.
LOL | 4:43 p.m. April 21, 2008
I'm sure no one's children in here are "next" Sue. I'm
sure many of us are law-abiding citizens and aren't hiding from the
government like the FLDS are. Hey, if the FLDS followed the laws of the land,
they wouldn't be in this situation.
The FLDS have something to hide, that is why they are in secret.
The FLDS have something to hide, that is why they are in secret.
Anonymous | 4:44 p.m. April 21, 2008
"Also, you can't compare marrying ages today with marrying ages of a
century ago. Customs and cultures are constantly changing and the norms of today
often have no correlation with the norms of yesterday."
Check census information from the mid-1800s. Check medical data on the estrus age of females of the same era. They will both indicate that about 22 was the customary and appropriate time for a first marriage. And, interestingly, that would be Emma Hale's age when she married him legally.
Twenty-two would be about 8 years older than Joseph Smith's 2 youngest wives, Fanny Alger and Desdemona Fullmer, and a number of years younger than a good number of them. 'Course I've heard it said that with 33 wives in his harem the distribution might look like the bell curve with both the very youngest (however outrageous) and the very oldest as when he married women closer to his own age.
Check census information from the mid-1800s. Check medical data on the estrus age of females of the same era. They will both indicate that about 22 was the customary and appropriate time for a first marriage. And, interestingly, that would be Emma Hale's age when she married him legally.
Twenty-two would be about 8 years older than Joseph Smith's 2 youngest wives, Fanny Alger and Desdemona Fullmer, and a number of years younger than a good number of them. 'Course I've heard it said that with 33 wives in his harem the distribution might look like the bell curve with both the very youngest (however outrageous) and the very oldest as when he married women closer to his own age.
Re: Re come to terms w history | 4:46 p.m. April 21, 2008
1804 Born 1827 Married. It appears that Emma Hale Smith was 22, she was not yet
23, when she eloped because her father would not give his consent for her to
marry Joseph. While many of you wish to pretend that marriages were at a very
young age a century ago, they were not. Please stop attempting to rewrite
history. Young marriages were seen as bizarre and unseemly then as it is now.
Check your facts!
sue | 4:48 p.m. April 21, 2008
I would love to see one or all of our presidential candidates opinion on this
issue. Cause the one that has the courage to stand up for the constitution of
this great free nation has my vote. As soon as they have the conviction to
realize that this is nothing short of kidnapping , and are not to couardly to
speak up for the freedoms and rights of the american people the election will be
over. that person will win. They should have already spoken and I don't
think any of the 3 candidates is any where near the courage and conviction that
I require of the next person we elect to represent this country. This country
was set up with a system of checks and balences so no one branch could get too
powerful, and we are n ot going to let the patriot act or anything else stop
that any more. There is only one person out there who can stop the destruction
of our constitution and I think that person is Ron Paul. I keep wondering why we
have not heard from him yet? Whats up Ron? can you help these children?
captivefldschildren.org | 5:09 p.m. April 21, 2008
I checked out the website and it strengthened my conviction that Texas is
handling this correctly.
a quandry | 5:21 p.m. April 21, 2008
Joseph Smith said one thing.
People believed it.
John Taylor contradicted Smith.
People believed it.
Now what?
People believed it.
John Taylor contradicted Smith.
People believed it.
Now what?
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Moises Andrade watches as Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints missionaries talk with church members on Sunday at the San Angelo Spanish-speaking branch in the Abilene, Texas, stake.
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Continued. . .
Religions are welcome to break away from other religions, i.e. the Lutherans from the Catholics, this doesn�t mean the Catholics have jurisdiction over the doctrines or practices of the Lutherans, any more than the Lutherans can claim shirt tale relations when things get tough. I pray that the Lord will watch over the children involved in this situation. These poor families deserve America�s consideration�not the LDS�s attention.