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Texas LDS deal with confusion
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Midwest Member | 8:18 a.m. April 21, 2008
Telling the FLDS that they cannot use the word "Mormon" is no
different than the people who say that LDS members cannot call themselves
Christians. I think that people should be able to define themselves by what they
want to call themselves. Don't we (LDS) believe that "We claim the
privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own
conscience and allow all men the same privilege-- LET THEM WORSHIP HOW, WHERE,
OR WHAT THEY MAY?" We don't have to agree with the FLDS doctrine in
order to let them use a word and we CAN use this opportunity to tell the people
around us what we DO believe. Let people know us by the fruit of our actions.
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and say all
manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad:
for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which
were before you." Pray for the FLDS. We LDS will be fine.
historian | 8:23 a.m. April 21, 2008
" . . . the FLDS Church is not connected in any way to The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints. . . "
Well, except that they practice the mainstream church's original teachings on plural marriage, abandoned as a quid pro quo for statehood by the LDS Church in 1890.
Why do you think they call themselves "Fundamentalist"?
Well, except that they practice the mainstream church's original teachings on plural marriage, abandoned as a quid pro quo for statehood by the LDS Church in 1890.
Why do you think they call themselves "Fundamentalist"?
Re: unfathomable | 8:24 a.m. April 21, 2008
Are you LDS? If not, do not put words in our mouths. If you are, you need to go
back to Church. Just because someone is a sinner, does not mean you do not show
empathy, or try to help them. It is called being Christ-like and that is what
the LDS faith teaches. Christ is the center of our religon. We do not tolerate
the sin, but we try to help those that have committeed it. And child abuse is a
sin.
Comments continue below
to Bill | 8:30 a.m. April 21, 2008
No, it would be the pregnant 14yos or the 16yos who are already mothers a couple
times over plus the fact that they can't name their mothers or their
birthdays and don't know their last names. And the fact that the mothers
everyone wants them to get back to can't protect them from being sexually
abused and bound into servitude as breeding mares by the middle aged men.
natejess | 8:25 a.m. April 21, 2008
LDS Prophet is Thomas S Monson
FLDS Prophet is Warren Jeffs
The two groups recognize a different line of authority. Forget doctrinal commonalities and differences, the line of authority are the big key to this argument.
Only one man can be the true Prophet of God.
FLDS Prophet is Warren Jeffs
The two groups recognize a different line of authority. Forget doctrinal commonalities and differences, the line of authority are the big key to this argument.
Only one man can be the true Prophet of God.
Ernest T. Bass | 8:33 a.m. April 21, 2008
Most of my fellow Mormons believe the ban on polygamy is just temporary and that
one day it will be practiced again.
The LDS Church doesn't go far enough when they say the practice has been banned (while still having DC132 as canonnized scripture and sealing men to more than one woman). Until the theology is clarified, people are justified in the confusion, good heavens, Mormons are confused as well.
Will we practice it in the future or not? Most mormons believe it will be practiced in the near future.
The LDS Church doesn't go far enough when they say the practice has been banned (while still having DC132 as canonnized scripture and sealing men to more than one woman). Until the theology is clarified, people are justified in the confusion, good heavens, Mormons are confused as well.
Will we practice it in the future or not? Most mormons believe it will be practiced in the near future.
Lilathe | 8:27 a.m. April 21, 2008
The one essential doctrine all these sects you mentioned have in common is they
all beleive Jesus is God always has been always will be (no preexistence)
and men won't be God.
and men won't be God.
Convoluted Cult | 8:29 a.m. April 21, 2008
Call them LDS, FLDS, XYZLDS -
In the end, mainstream will always view these peculiar people as a cult bent on separating themselves from the rest.
In the end, mainstream will always view these peculiar people as a cult bent on separating themselves from the rest.
Re: Bill | 8:29 a.m. April 21, 2008
I am prior law enforcement. You are only hearing what the media has been stating
about the case. Let the Courts decide. Not you and I. There may be more to it
than that.
Barry | 8:30 a.m. April 21, 2008
It is so wonderful that so many non-LDS people know "it" all. I
wondered if there was a link between the LDS and FLDS religions. Now I know,
thanks to you smart, all-knowing people. I guess that means that the Baptists,
Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Anglicans, etc., are ALL really just
Catholic Churches in disguise. They all broke off from the Holy Roman
Church--Martin Luther, Josef Zwingli, John Calvin, King Henry VIII, and others.
They were ALL just Catholics that wanted to spread "the Word." Thanks
you guys. That makes a lot more sense. When you figure out how to end hatred,
bigotry, persecution, and asinine thought-processes, please . . . tell me. I
NEED TO KNOW!!
Drew | 8:44 a.m. April 21, 2008
Posters on here need to be very careful for the "shame" statements
they are using.
President Hinckley stated the following:
"I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church....The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter...
"There is no such thing as a 'Mormon Fundamentalist.' It is a contradiction to use the two words together."
Those are the prophet's words.
Of course we believe them to be children of God. That is clearly stated in the Proclamation to the World.
Be very careful when taking the church's statements out of context to marry them to another.
The prophet said "The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter," so he is stating, "We have given them NO authority to practice polygamy."
I would be careful when shaming a prophet's words. You tread in dangerous waters, even when you are doing it in the name of love and acceptance.
We can love them while clarifying they do not worship under the Church's jurisdiction and we can love them without embracing their practices.
President Hinckley stated the following:
"I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church....The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter...
"There is no such thing as a 'Mormon Fundamentalist.' It is a contradiction to use the two words together."
Those are the prophet's words.
Of course we believe them to be children of God. That is clearly stated in the Proclamation to the World.
Be very careful when taking the church's statements out of context to marry them to another.
The prophet said "The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter," so he is stating, "We have given them NO authority to practice polygamy."
I would be careful when shaming a prophet's words. You tread in dangerous waters, even when you are doing it in the name of love and acceptance.
We can love them while clarifying they do not worship under the Church's jurisdiction and we can love them without embracing their practices.
toUnfanthomable | 8:41 a.m. April 21, 2008
"The essential characteristic of the restored Gospel is Priesthood
Authority.
FLDS have rejected that totally."
Actually the main fundamentalist groups claim that Pres Taylor gave other individuals the Priesthood keys so they could take the authority underground, protecting it in case the 1st Presidency and Twelve were all caught and arrested, ensuring the authority could not be wiped out.
Did this happen? Who's to say?
FLDS have rejected that totally."
Actually the main fundamentalist groups claim that Pres Taylor gave other individuals the Priesthood keys so they could take the authority underground, protecting it in case the 1st Presidency and Twelve were all caught and arrested, ensuring the authority could not be wiped out.
Did this happen? Who's to say?
Re: Covoluted | 8:48 a.m. April 21, 2008
........and the 'mainsteam' would be incorrect as are you.
Not Connected? | 8:44 a.m. April 21, 2008
I had a supervisor when I worked in Orem who was active LDS, but could not wait
until the practice of Polygamy was restored. He brought it up numerous times
and even kept a mental list of women who were potential additional wives.
He was convinced that sooner or later the church would restore this practice and spent a lot of time arguing that those who pushed legalization for Homosexuality should also include Polygamy in their efforts.
For this issue, I personally thought he was a nutjob, but he was otherwise really intelligent and even taught computer courses part time at UVCC/UVSC in Orem.
If the LDS church ever brings back this practice, the events in Texas should serve as a warning about what might happen. Even removing the issue of polygamy, the precedent of removing children from their families over "strange religious practices" could have some dire consequences.
He was convinced that sooner or later the church would restore this practice and spent a lot of time arguing that those who pushed legalization for Homosexuality should also include Polygamy in their efforts.
For this issue, I personally thought he was a nutjob, but he was otherwise really intelligent and even taught computer courses part time at UVCC/UVSC in Orem.
If the LDS church ever brings back this practice, the events in Texas should serve as a warning about what might happen. Even removing the issue of polygamy, the precedent of removing children from their families over "strange religious practices" could have some dire consequences.
your boss | 8:44 a.m. April 21, 2008
Utah state Senator Ron Allen said:
'We have thousands of women pulled out of school at an early age, forced into marriages with older men, kept isolated from society, constantly impregnated, and often placed on public assistance with no financial means of their own. They are forgotten citizens facing abuse and fear. On top of it all, the victims are constantly taught that God is just pleased as punch about the whole deal. It has to stop'."
'We have thousands of women pulled out of school at an early age, forced into marriages with older men, kept isolated from society, constantly impregnated, and often placed on public assistance with no financial means of their own. They are forgotten citizens facing abuse and fear. On top of it all, the victims are constantly taught that God is just pleased as punch about the whole deal. It has to stop'."
Re: Mona and "Re: Bel" | 8:51 a.m. April 21, 2008
CPS/DFPS has had a reputation for some time as being overly intrusive, reckless,
and indifferent to parents� rights. One phone call is all
it takes to have them at your door. This particular arm of government is above
the concept of �innocent until proven
guilty�, because if a child is in imminent danger, they
can�t wait until a law has been broken. So as a result,
they operate on a guilty until proven innocent mentality by default.
It�s a catch 22, but some would argue that they take it too
far.
A big part of the problem is that they have their standards for acceptable parenting behavior, and the parents are judged by this, which is not entirely acceptable. If a set of parents believe in corporal punishment, though they love their children and care for them properly, they can find themselves threatened by a government agency that presumes the right to not only tell the parents how to raise their children, but to take the children away if it is not being done according the belief system of the government. In this we see the government overstepping its bounds.
It happens to innocent parents. To delude yourself is dangerous.
A big part of the problem is that they have their standards for acceptable parenting behavior, and the parents are judged by this, which is not entirely acceptable. If a set of parents believe in corporal punishment, though they love their children and care for them properly, they can find themselves threatened by a government agency that presumes the right to not only tell the parents how to raise their children, but to take the children away if it is not being done according the belief system of the government. In this we see the government overstepping its bounds.
It happens to innocent parents. To delude yourself is dangerous.
WBM5 | 8:54 a.m. April 21, 2008
I don't feel any connection with the FLDS religion ... but I feel a a
connection as a member of the human race.
Also, when did the FLDS church begin? Could someone please answer this... my brother says they didn't agree with blacks getting the priesthood and that's when they started.
If this is true then I don't want to be affiliated in any way!
Also, when did the FLDS church begin? Could someone please answer this... my brother says they didn't agree with blacks getting the priesthood and that's when they started.
If this is true then I don't want to be affiliated in any way!
bizarre logic | 8:49 a.m. April 21, 2008
There was a sex abuse problem within the clergy of the Catholic Chuch.
Episcopals are a break-off from Catholicism. Therfore following the same bizarre
logic of those who lump LDS with FLDS: Episcopals are advocates of sex abuse.
Obviously the motive for making such connections is religous bigotry; so please
dont try to sugar-coat it as some sort of intellectual debate. It is merely
hate.
re: Wondering | 8:57 a.m. April 21, 2008
Errr....wrong. If a Constitutional right is superceded by criminal statute,
then we could pass a law that says it's a crime to pray out loud.
You've got it exactly backwards, criminal statue is subject to the Constitution, not vice versa.
The Constitution protects against criminal statute passed that violate the constitution. IF a law is passed that violates the 1st amendment, it's subject to appeal to the SCOTUS.
Granted, that many people will try to apply a blanket personal interpretation of the Constitution that may have already been ruled on differently as not violating the Constitution, however your post makes it seem that criminal statute supercedes the Constitution...which is wrong.
Besides, it seems that the issue here deals more with 4th amendment search and seizure than 1st amendment freedom of religion.
You've got it exactly backwards, criminal statue is subject to the Constitution, not vice versa.
The Constitution protects against criminal statute passed that violate the constitution. IF a law is passed that violates the 1st amendment, it's subject to appeal to the SCOTUS.
Granted, that many people will try to apply a blanket personal interpretation of the Constitution that may have already been ruled on differently as not violating the Constitution, however your post makes it seem that criminal statute supercedes the Constitution...which is wrong.
Besides, it seems that the issue here deals more with 4th amendment search and seizure than 1st amendment freedom of religion.
Right On | 9:01 a.m. April 21, 2008
RE: Huh??
This is right on. Good analogy.
This is right on. Good analogy.
5th Ammendment | 9:08 a.m. April 21, 2008
And for those judgmental souls who have a problem of the FLDS folks being less
than honest in answering questions about their family relationships you should
keep in mind they have rights under the 5th Amendment too. And if you look it up
there are those annoying works "due process" again. And the extortion
of submitting to DNA tests using the kids as leverage, the "perps"
will walk and we will be left with bad case law.
I once knew two investigators that broke into a home so they could find their evidence, then later fed the information to an informant who passed the info back so they could get a court order. Well the light broke through during trial and the "perp" walked and they went to jail. If procedure, protocol and due process are not followed, then bad guys walk. But this is not about crime, or saving children. It is about domineering control and religious persecution.
As a Constitutionalist I am saddened. As an Atheist I am made giddy with excitement and possibilities.
I once knew two investigators that broke into a home so they could find their evidence, then later fed the information to an informant who passed the info back so they could get a court order. Well the light broke through during trial and the "perp" walked and they went to jail. If procedure, protocol and due process are not followed, then bad guys walk. But this is not about crime, or saving children. It is about domineering control and religious persecution.
As a Constitutionalist I am saddened. As an Atheist I am made giddy with excitement and possibilities.
never gonna happen | 9:09 a.m. April 21, 2008
More reasons why mainstream America will never accept any faction of this cult
into a legitimate branch of Christianity.
Tallywag | 9:16 a.m. April 21, 2008
Hey TOM,
You are so right! The FLDS do drink wine and do not live the word of wisdom.
You are so right! The FLDS do drink wine and do not live the word of wisdom.
John Lambert, Detroit | 9:10 a.m. April 21, 2008
I have dealt with this issue here in Detroit. People constantly confuse the two
churches and many are unwilling to listen to explanations explaining the
difference.
Others will not believe us when we say the churches are not affiliated. Some say we do not know what goes on in our church or we lie.
So be bold and speak out and make sure people know FLDS does not equal LDS.
Others will not believe us when we say the churches are not affiliated. Some say we do not know what goes on in our church or we lie.
So be bold and speak out and make sure people know FLDS does not equal LDS.
Re: historian | 9:17 a.m. April 21, 2008
Historian, don�t quit your day job.
The true Church of Jesus Christ stopped practicing polygamy after a revelation was received by Wilford Woodruff from God giving the Church permission to stop, and counseling the Prophet that if the Church did not stop, the government would eventually confiscate all the Church�s property, (including Temples) and God�s work on earth would stop.
It takes either cynicism, ignorance, arrogance, a lack of faith, a malicious will to deceive, or some combination of the above for a person to claim that the Church stopped the practice in a bid for statehood.
I suggest you study history a little more carefully if you�re going to call yourself a historian. If trafficking in bigotry, lies, and ignorance is all you want to do, you should label your posts accordingly.
For the record, this message board is supposed to be about how difficult it is to differentiate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from an apostate splinter faction that openly rejects the LDS Church�s authority, thereby clearly setting the two Churches apart. Can we please stay on topic?
The true Church of Jesus Christ stopped practicing polygamy after a revelation was received by Wilford Woodruff from God giving the Church permission to stop, and counseling the Prophet that if the Church did not stop, the government would eventually confiscate all the Church�s property, (including Temples) and God�s work on earth would stop.
It takes either cynicism, ignorance, arrogance, a lack of faith, a malicious will to deceive, or some combination of the above for a person to claim that the Church stopped the practice in a bid for statehood.
I suggest you study history a little more carefully if you�re going to call yourself a historian. If trafficking in bigotry, lies, and ignorance is all you want to do, you should label your posts accordingly.
For the record, this message board is supposed to be about how difficult it is to differentiate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from an apostate splinter faction that openly rejects the LDS Church�s authority, thereby clearly setting the two Churches apart. Can we please stay on topic?
Anonymous | 9:13 a.m. April 21, 2008
Southern Mormon: Your observation that those who do not accept LDS teachings
are "stupid and close minded" is out of line. "Once saved,
always safe" is scriptural (Ephesians 2:8-10), and good works proceed from
salvation, not the other way around.
I am a proud Southerner, a former liberal Southern Baptist turned Episcopalian, and a Mensan (card-carrying genius). I am NOT "stupid and close minded", but I reject the unique claims of the LDS Church just as I reject the claims of the Southern Baptist Convention and Roman Catholic Church to have a monopoly on truth.
No, people do not have a right to "tear down" your beliefs, but they DO have a right to offer their own on the same basis as the LDS.
I would observe that, in areas where the LDS are dominant there is tremendous social pressure to participate in LDS activities (released-time seminary) or to be ostracized as an outsider. This would seem to be quite the double standard.
I am a proud Southerner, a former liberal Southern Baptist turned Episcopalian, and a Mensan (card-carrying genius). I am NOT "stupid and close minded", but I reject the unique claims of the LDS Church just as I reject the claims of the Southern Baptist Convention and Roman Catholic Church to have a monopoly on truth.
No, people do not have a right to "tear down" your beliefs, but they DO have a right to offer their own on the same basis as the LDS.
I would observe that, in areas where the LDS are dominant there is tremendous social pressure to participate in LDS activities (released-time seminary) or to be ostracized as an outsider. This would seem to be quite the double standard.
angel in Texas an LDS member | 9:19 a.m. April 21, 2008
OK here is what some of you folks fail to realize. Here in San Angelo area you
do not and I repeat do not do anything to offend the Baptist who have contracts
for disaster services. Next we as LDS individuals are helping these children.
Some of us have offered our homes to groups of siblings,some of us have gone in
daily to assist in the care of these children so we will be able to understand
the spiritual needs.
John Lambert | 9:19 a.m. April 21, 2008
To the first commentator,
Would you expect the Roman Catholic Church to feel the highest level of connection with the Polish National Catholic Church in America?
No, people do not feel connections with apostates. If you read the Book of Mormon in Jacob you will see that when polygamy is practiced without the sanction of God it is condemned in the strongest terms.
With that in mind, how can we do anything except condemn all polygamous breakoff groups?
Would you expect the Roman Catholic Church to feel the highest level of connection with the Polish National Catholic Church in America?
No, people do not feel connections with apostates. If you read the Book of Mormon in Jacob you will see that when polygamy is practiced without the sanction of God it is condemned in the strongest terms.
With that in mind, how can we do anything except condemn all polygamous breakoff groups?
angel in Texas LDS member | 9:15 a.m. April 21, 2008
And yes it is hard on them but a few have made statements that break your heart
about needing to get the OK to speak from their husband this from an about 13 or
14 year old girl from Utah who was sent here by her parents to marry. Yes I
heard this myself. I feel a connection to these people because of the WORD
however I feel most have been brain washed and their free will has been taken
from them. Just pray for them and maybe just maybe this will be the end of this
type of cult mentality. Adult can do as the see fit, just don't raise
children in a closed society. Pray for us all to learn from this.
Archaea Cougarguard | 9:20 a.m. April 21, 2008
The posturing contained in this thread leads nowhere. The simple fact is that
polygamy remains a doctrine of the LDS Church. It is just not practiced at this
time. See D&C 132 for confirmation. Therefore, there will always be a
common foundational link between LDS and FLDS.
John Lambert | 9:28 a.m. April 21, 2008
Well, if the ACLU has really spoken out about this issue it is a good thing.
However the raid happened two weeks ago. Where were they in the heat of the
moment? Where were they when the judge was running roughshod over the
constitution?
Alex | 9:25 a.m. April 21, 2008
unfathomable
"I have no idea why LDS members feel any sense of kinship or sympathy for the FLDS Church. "
Without a doubt, the LDS Church has no connection with the FLDS Church. However, I have empathy for the polygamists, because over 120 years ago or so, my GGGGrandfather practiced polygamy in the LDS Church in violation of the just enacted antipolygamy laws. In fact, he went to jail for it. I have a picture of him in his stripes. He was sent to jail because he was trying to visit his family. Imagine that. If he had just let his wives flail in the wind and had divorced them, he would have had no problem with the law, but he didn't. He had to make a decision. He took care of his family in spite of the law and in full view of the consequences. I have his journals. He was a very good man, and I honor and respect him. While justice must have its way without a doubt, I am inclined to grant FLDS the courtesy of withholding judgment until the jury is in on the FLDS.
"I have no idea why LDS members feel any sense of kinship or sympathy for the FLDS Church. "
Without a doubt, the LDS Church has no connection with the FLDS Church. However, I have empathy for the polygamists, because over 120 years ago or so, my GGGGrandfather practiced polygamy in the LDS Church in violation of the just enacted antipolygamy laws. In fact, he went to jail for it. I have a picture of him in his stripes. He was sent to jail because he was trying to visit his family. Imagine that. If he had just let his wives flail in the wind and had divorced them, he would have had no problem with the law, but he didn't. He had to make a decision. He took care of his family in spite of the law and in full view of the consequences. I have his journals. He was a very good man, and I honor and respect him. While justice must have its way without a doubt, I am inclined to grant FLDS the courtesy of withholding judgment until the jury is in on the FLDS.
John Lambert, Detroit | 9:34 a.m. April 21, 2008
I have to say I knew lots of people in Utah who got married befroe turning
20.
On the other hand, the only person I know who got married at 17 was a guy here in Michigan. One time onj my mission in Las Vegas I did a study of the ward list and calculated that the average age difference between couples in the ward was under two years.
My bishop is nine years older than his wife, but she was 25 when they got married.
Beyond this there are some places in the US that so many couples live together before getting married that the age at marriage is not a very good stat to go by.
On the other hand, the only person I know who got married at 17 was a guy here in Michigan. One time onj my mission in Las Vegas I did a study of the ward list and calculated that the average age difference between couples in the ward was under two years.
My bishop is nine years older than his wife, but she was 25 when they got married.
Beyond this there are some places in the US that so many couples live together before getting married that the age at marriage is not a very good stat to go by.
New Approach | 9:36 a.m. April 21, 2008
Its amazing how many people outside of the mountain west don't know any
mormons... maybe there should be an "ungathering" to other parts of
the world...brigham started it... lets keep it going. Texas anyone?
Stewart | 9:42 a.m. April 21, 2008
If the LDS Church in Utah is responsible for this then the Texas Baptists and
evangelicals are responsible for the Spanish Inquisition by the Catholics of
which they have descended.
Mom in MO | 9:49 a.m. April 21, 2008
The FLDS sect isn't the only group to break away from the Church after the
Manifesto. Many groups did. Some flourished, and some didn't. Also,
don't forget the RLDS church, now Community of Christ. They still teach
the Book of Mormon as well, although denying it as the Word of God anymore.
Just good reading material with a lot of history to it. So they should be
considered part of the "Mormon" faith, too, although they themselves
can't admit that. They would lose their funding from the World Council of
Churches.
John Lambert | 9:48 a.m. April 21, 2008
Re Re Lilathe,
The Polish National Catholic Church does not accept the authrity of the Pope. Nor do Eastern Orthodox (although their being called a Catholic sect would outrage many, don't do it if you go to Russia, Greece or anywhere between on a mission).
There are also groups like the Old Catholics, the Liberal Catholics and the Tridentine Catholics. The Old Catholics reject the doctrine of Papal Infalibility and broke after Vatican I in the 1870s. The Tridentine Catholics are a much more complexed group. If anything they feel Papal Infallibility was undermined by Vatican II. Mainly they disagree with other Vatican II reforms. To some extent Pope Benedict has reached out to those still within the church. Others insist that John XXIII was not properly elected and that the Papacy has been vacant since then. There are also a few people who insist that they are the true pope, and the last four popes have all been false popes. However none of these counter claimants to the Papal throne have significant followings.
So there are groups that use the name Catholic who have no allegiance to the Pope.
The Polish National Catholic Church does not accept the authrity of the Pope. Nor do Eastern Orthodox (although their being called a Catholic sect would outrage many, don't do it if you go to Russia, Greece or anywhere between on a mission).
There are also groups like the Old Catholics, the Liberal Catholics and the Tridentine Catholics. The Old Catholics reject the doctrine of Papal Infalibility and broke after Vatican I in the 1870s. The Tridentine Catholics are a much more complexed group. If anything they feel Papal Infallibility was undermined by Vatican II. Mainly they disagree with other Vatican II reforms. To some extent Pope Benedict has reached out to those still within the church. Others insist that John XXIII was not properly elected and that the Papacy has been vacant since then. There are also a few people who insist that they are the true pope, and the last four popes have all been false popes. However none of these counter claimants to the Papal throne have significant followings.
So there are groups that use the name Catholic who have no allegiance to the Pope.
This is funny | 9:43 a.m. April 21, 2008
It is funny to me that the "True prophet Wilford Woodruff" got info
from God that polygamy was finished, yet the FLDS prophets say polygamy
didn't stop so they must be crazy. The FLDS are only following the Book of
Mormon and it's teachings. The LDS can't run from their history and
the teaching in their own book.
Bizarre Comments | 9:44 a.m. April 21, 2008
No, as an organization, we are not affiliated with the FLDS. It really is that
simple.
Hidi | 9:54 a.m. April 21, 2008
The FLDS do not have Brigham Young hanging on the their wall of pictures in line
with their FLDS prophets. Only Joseph Smith.
think about it | 10:02 a.m. April 21, 2008
this comment is in regard to"vegasbaby"who sats that because we both
read the book of mormon we are very connected. do you realize that we read the
bible? that means that a baptist is very connected with a catholic or that you
yourself are connected to a the "mormons".
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 9:58 a.m. April 21, 2008
Much as we don't like to think about it, the real LDS and the
Fundamentalists have common enemies, namely the members of churches in the South
whose pastors have made it a regular item on their agenda to teach their
congregants to hate "Mormons". They are constantly on the lookout for
more reasons to hate Mormons, to justify their hatred, and they will seize on
this affair as one, refusing to acknowledge that real LDS do not practice
polygamy or live outside normal family units. It gives the haters satisfaction
and relieves them of guilt to know that the objects of their hate are sinners,
aqnd they don't want to know differently. This entire episode has been
driven by the belief of the Texas authorities that the Fundamentalists do not
deserve to be treated as full US citizens with full rights of due process of
law.
It is also ironic that the Fundamentalists are the focus of this government action, since in every inner city of America there are people practicing functional polygamy, men who do not marry any of the mothers of their children, who rarely support the mothers or children, but who are never arrested.
It is also ironic that the Fundamentalists are the focus of this government action, since in every inner city of America there are people practicing functional polygamy, men who do not marry any of the mothers of their children, who rarely support the mothers or children, but who are never arrested.
North Texas Mormon | 10:03 a.m. April 21, 2008
This a terribly written article. Many Texas LDS don't have issues with the
raid -- particularly in the part of Texas we call "North Texas"
(D/FW), where there are 17 stakes and the Church is well-known and respected.
Texas is a big state.
Texas is a big state.
Prediction | 10:11 a.m. April 21, 2008
I predict if Texas rides this thing out, these young mothers will choose to be
reunited with their kids and will rat their sex offender "husbands"
out. The men will end up in jail, the kids back with their moms in a safer
situation. I think this will be a win-win situation for all except the sex
offenders.
John Lambert | 10:12 a.m. April 21, 2008
To Ernest T. Bass,
I would not say most Mormons believe the ban on polygamy is temporary.
I do not think I have ever heard a female support such an opinion, so that would mean less than half. Even among males I have a sense that it is not close to a majority.
Some teenagers may have visions of polygamy being restored, but I think most adults who have studied a variety of writers on church doctrine instead of holding to the works of one apostle as if they have been cannonized think that polygamy is not about to return.
I would not say most Mormons believe the ban on polygamy is temporary.
I do not think I have ever heard a female support such an opinion, so that would mean less than half. Even among males I have a sense that it is not close to a majority.
Some teenagers may have visions of polygamy being restored, but I think most adults who have studied a variety of writers on church doctrine instead of holding to the works of one apostle as if they have been cannonized think that polygamy is not about to return.
Re: Re: historial | 10:17 a.m. April 21, 2008
The true Church of Jesus Christ stopped practicing polygamy after a revelation
was received by Wilford Woodruff from God giving the Church permission to stop,
and counseling the Prophet that if the Church did not stop, the government would
eventually confiscate all the Church�s property, (including
Temples) and God�s work on earth would stop.
It takes either cynicism, ignorance, arrogance, a lack of faith, a malicious will to deceive, or some combination of the above for a person to claim that the Church stopped the practice in a bid for statehood.
Uhhhh ..... Not so fast.
There's that nasty little detail called the Second Manifesto.
And only a koolaid-drinking Mormon would not acknowledge that sometimes, the Lord gives revelation in response to secular concerns (like statehood or the future viability of the church).
- A true-blue Mormon without rose-colored glasses
It takes either cynicism, ignorance, arrogance, a lack of faith, a malicious will to deceive, or some combination of the above for a person to claim that the Church stopped the practice in a bid for statehood.
Uhhhh ..... Not so fast.
There's that nasty little detail called the Second Manifesto.
And only a koolaid-drinking Mormon would not acknowledge that sometimes, the Lord gives revelation in response to secular concerns (like statehood or the future viability of the church).
- A true-blue Mormon without rose-colored glasses
Connecticut Mormon | 10:22 a.m. April 21, 2008
I appreciated the Wall Street Journal's recent article on the Eldorado
incident. Rather than describing the FLDS church as "fundamentalist
Mormons" as virtually every other news outlet does, they were described as
a "renegade Mormon sect" - something that probably reflects their
status and relationship with the mainstream LDS church much better than implying
that they are simply more devout than members of the mainstream church.
Anonymous | 10:18 a.m. April 21, 2008
The FDLS do not obey the laws of the land. Polygamy in against the law plain
and simple. One law they do like is the welfare system that is what keeps them
going, Unwed mothers and lots of children. Hold welfare from them and see how
long it takes
the FDLS to give in.
the FDLS to give in.
Mohan | 10:20 a.m. April 21, 2008
Wow! These posts are amazing.
As LDS we believe we have a connection to every person on the planet. We have a connection with others who believe in the Bible. We have a connection with others who believe in the Book of Mormon. We have a connection with others who believe in God and want to better follow His commandments and to be better people. We have a connection with those who believe families are important and fundamental to society. We have a connection with you because we are all children of God. We are all connected. We care about you specifically.
But that connection doesn't mean that our religion is responsible for what you do. So we really aren't so much bothered if someone wants to call themselves Mormons or Christians just like we call ourselves. We are just bothered that we are blamed or associated with things we are not doing and being misunderstood. We are just stating points of separation. But we still care and we still help. We would help you too if you would let us.
As LDS we believe we have a connection to every person on the planet. We have a connection with others who believe in the Bible. We have a connection with others who believe in the Book of Mormon. We have a connection with others who believe in God and want to better follow His commandments and to be better people. We have a connection with those who believe families are important and fundamental to society. We have a connection with you because we are all children of God. We are all connected. We care about you specifically.
But that connection doesn't mean that our religion is responsible for what you do. So we really aren't so much bothered if someone wants to call themselves Mormons or Christians just like we call ourselves. We are just bothered that we are blamed or associated with things we are not doing and being misunderstood. We are just stating points of separation. But we still care and we still help. We would help you too if you would let us.
Trey | 10:26 a.m. April 21, 2008
Westboro Baptist Church are baptists too
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Moises Andrade watches as Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints missionaries talk with church members on Sunday at the San Angelo Spanish-speaking branch in the Abilene, Texas, stake.
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