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Comments about ‘Officials plan to group FLDS kids in homes’

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Published: Sunday, April 20 2008 12:24 a.m. MDT

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John Lambert

I do not see how putting these children in homes in the "Bible Belt" is culturally sensitive. Maybe the people at CPS, who tend to be the type of elitist liberals who consider "Bible Belt" to be an insult, are so unaware that they think "Fundamentalist Mormons" and "Fundamentalists Christians" are basically the same.
Maybe the LDS Church has finally convinced someone that they are Christian. So now since LDS=Christian, Fundementalist LDS=Fundamentalist Christian.
I hate to break it to the CPS people, but putting the children in Fundamentalist Christian homes is the worst decision. Now they will go from being told that they are going to hell if they associate with outsiders to being told that they are going to hell because they believe that Joseph Smith recieved revelation from God. I can't think of a worse plan.
Better would probably be putting the children in homes of people in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, since so many in Texas believe that LDS are an anti-Christian cult, anything approaching preferential treatement in placing the children where they won't be told that Joseph Smith was following the commands of the devil will cause outrage.

Anonymous

Jean,
you said to let the children go home. Well they might just do that when they find out where their home is.
The mother's are denying their own children, and the kids have no idea who their biological mothers are.
So how would you send them home, if no one knows where home is?
Any idea?
I didn't think so.

Kitenoa

No one messes with Texas, they will mess it up themselves or their government agencies will (CPS for example).

Before the FLDS folks moved to Texas, those government agencies were aware of the polygamist lifestyle of the new FLDS residents. For whatever reason or motivations they allowed a ranch of that size and magnitude to be established in Texas. That is a wonder to me. Why, knowing what they previously understood, they allowed polygamy to infest their great state?

Don't whine big time for your own choices. You brought it upon yourself!

John Lambert

Just to continue on my last comments. This move to put the children in "Bible belt" homes just makes me think that this is religious persecution even more.
I am not very convinced that even the most extreme liberals could confuse Fundamentalist LDS and fundamentalist Christians.
I am going more towards the view that this is an organized persecution with the aim to detroy the FLDS Church. I think the perpetrators are an unholy alliance of right wingers who believe Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by the power of the devil and left wingers who want to destroy families and force people to accept homosexuality with books like "Prince and Prince" given to kindergarteners and making sure that every public library has a copy of a book explaining that masterbation is perfectly normal and that any religion that denounces it is out of line in its childrens section.
To say such people are involved in this persecution may be a bit much. However they are out there, and if they can win their fight to use child protective services here, how long until any parent who teaches that homosexuality is wrong will loose their child?

Joyce

I noticed no toys in the house or yard.
I also did not see any puppies, cats or bunnies anywhere around the compound either.
Did anyone else see any toys or animals for the kids?

BenM

Wow, this is truly amazing. Have you people listened to any of the ladies who managed to escape about what goes on? Do you realize this Jeff character took children away from one family and "gave" them to another? You really think right-thinking people should just sit by and say "Oh, well, child rape is part of their religion?" Really? This is all about men controlling and dominating women and little girls. You think that's OK?

Red Texan

Shut these twisted perverts down, move them in with Warren Jeffs, then sell the ranch to pay for the court costs and the care of all these children.

Enough of you sickos for making excuses for child rape and abuse! A pox on your houses for calling evil good. Comparing these rapes and forced marriages and other obvious abuses to any mistakes kids make on their own is ludicrous.

Still proud to be a Texan and thanking God daily I am not from Utah or Arizona where women and kids are apparently second class citizens undeserving of protection.

John Lambert

Anyone who thinks that most pregnancies of teenage girls come from teenage boys is wilfully ignorant. There is way too much evidence for large age differences that to claim otherwise is atrocious.
On the other hand I think there are more cases prosecuted in this matter than people admit. Still, many pregnant teenagers have a child whose father is over the age of 30.

Lori

The FLDS needs to be remaned to WSLDS Wife Swapping Latter Day Saints. Does anyone know the ratio of men to women to children in this cult:

Men = 5

Women = 20

Children = 416

The adults need to be arrested. The women won't claim their children by name, the women won't say their last names (do they know their last names or is this so CRAZY?) Where are the men anyway? Where are they hiding? The children don't know who their parents are. This is MADDNESS.

How do these people keep each other straight. Do they wear name badges, or numbers, or do the womens' dresses signify who they are by color code?

Could it be possible that these people set up a sex ranch in the lords name although the lord does not approve of any of this? The men need to stop taking Viagra RIGHT NOW. Has testing been done for STDs?

These adults are GROSS. Don't the women have natural intuition regarding what is right for their children?

John Lambert

Marrying a 13 year old is not a prosecutable crime. Having sex with a 13 year old is. So the fact that marriages may have been performed at some given age has no bearing on what laws have been broken.
The state has to be able to demonstrate actual sexual relation before a given age. To claim that the evidence of a marriage is evidence of sexual abuse does not stand up to logic.
I for one will admit that I am standing up for the rights of the accused. People ARE innocent until proven guilty. Just because the state has chosen to use the child custody route where this rule does not always apply, you can not just go around making those of us who speak for the bill of rights some kind of criminal.

Leroy G.


CPS says in court there are at least 5 girls pregnant at 16. What they need to prove is both the age and who the father is. They should start with these particular girls and let us see them prove they were not 17 when they became pregnant.
In Texas, for instance, the age of consent is 17 and the minimum age of child is 14 with an age differential of 3 years; thus, individuals who are at least 14 years of age can legally engage in sexual activities if the defendant is less than 3 years older than the accuser (Texas Penal Code 22.011(a)(2)).
So a 14 year old can engage in sex with a 17yr old . A 15 yr old can engage in sex with an 18 year old. A 16 yr old with a 19 yr old. And a 17 yr old with any age from 14 to 99 and it is not a crime for her or him.

Rico

Texas has the guts...Dont mess with Texas..Gimme a break. I'm sure Texas wanted some resistance when they stormtrooped the compound, so they could burn it to the ground soos they could protect someone.

Two wrongs

Two wrongs don't make a right.

- underage kids getting pregnant, not good

However, there is a worse thing:

- taking away 400 plus people against their will due to a hoax
- not presenting evidence in each and every single case where the government took away a child from a family

one guilty person does not equal 400 guilty persons.

Non LDS

It is shocking and alarming to Christians that so many LDS seem to be supporting the FLDS. There is suspected child abuse going on. Why is it so difficult to understand that is must be investigating thoroughly before the kids can possibly live with their families again? As I've suspected more and more over the years, polygamy is a much bigger part of the LDS belief system than is ever admitted.

Bettie

My question is why didn't they take the men? They were the perpetrators, they committed the crime. What kind of thinking decided the innocent children should be so traumatized....aren't they the victims??
If they would have left the women and children at the compound and removed all the men they could have posted guards to keep the men out and the children would have been much better off while the state investigated what is actually going on.

Bewildered

Is anyone in the world free? I'd like to live the life of a multi-millionaire but the credit collectors won't let me. Can I have the Texas CPS take thier children away too? Do a little research. The childrens' court appointed guardians have even said that living conditions at the ranch were above average. There is NO sign that ANY child currently in the custody of the state was abused under ANY legal definition of the word abuse. BIGAMY is illegal. Polygamy is a lifestyle. I firmly support putting pedophiles in jail (or under the jail). But the majority of the people in this compound ARE NOT pedophiles. The state of Texas has seriously overstepped their authority and set a frightening precedent in this case. The right to think like anyone else thinks is NOT a requirement of ANY law. The right to freedom of religion IS a constitutionally protected freedom. Without evidence of immediate danger to their well being (other than disagreeing with their parents religious beliefs) these children need to be returned to thier parents where they belong.

What the...

Child abuse is an epidemic in the US. Unfortunately we haven't been able to convince the majority of abusers to confine their environment to an easily 'raidable' parcel of land.

Utah will never do their people justice because the LDS still believe polygamy is the way to eternal salvation. Has anyone read D&C 132 lately?? Gone to the temple lately? It's cognitive dissonance at it's finest. How pathetically has the Church responded to this situation?

It sickens me. This, people, is the legacy of Joseph Smith. This is reaping what we sow. This is instant Karma...

I'm POSITIVE there is an equal amount of child abuse right in our own back yard. How about some righteous indignation for our own mothers and children. Look around and DO something.

Eye Dee Ten Tee

Joyce:

Imagine your neighbors abuse their children. You attend the same church, but there is no evidence you abuse your children. The government comes and takes away both you and your neighbors children.

Most commentors here are not supporting abuse of any kind. We are just asking why Texas CPS is persecuting before prosecuting. Why did they use a phony anonomys phone call as an excuse instead of real evidence as a reason.

Hey Eye Dee Ten Tee

The problem is with your logic. These people live TOGETHER...communally. If one boy is abandoned, do other FLDS place him in their home or do they also shun the 13 year old competition for females? They obviously shun him as well. If a girl or woman attempts to run away, does someone within the group help or tattle on her? Well, we know that the "police" have a history of returning the females. We also know that other wives tattle on one another. Holding a person against their will is illegal in case you didn't know. The question would be more appropriate to suggest this scenerio: If a neighbor abused their children and you held the children down, should you have your children removed? My answer, yes!!
As far as the "phony call," imagine this: A phony I see someone robbing a house call is made. The police arrived and investigate to find a murder. You seem to think the murder should be ignored because a "phony call" is what got them there. I say you find a crime, you investigate further. Not all women went back to the compound even though the FLDS women claim so.

Rights

For all of you that are crying out about Rights under the Constitution, please point out where in the Rights it states that you are permitted to commit crimes for that religion? Are you permitted to withhold insulin from a diabetic child? Nope. In those cases appropriate murder charges have been filed. Are you permitted to place your child on an altar, sacrificing him to God? Nope. This is no different. You may not abandon your minor son because he is a threat to the men of the community. You may not FORCIBLY marry your daughter the church authorities have demanded it after you, as a mother, notifies those authorities that she has reached puberty. You may not hold people against their will so that they may not leave. 6 Women are KNOWN to have requested a safe house refusing to go to the compound. You may not commit welfare fraud because "bleeding the beast" and "lying for the Lord" are considered holy and sacred.
How unfortunate the people of the Church not following the authorities and show their is a difference between the two groups. One is willing to commit crimes (flds) the other not (LDS.)

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