Deseret News | LDS again stress the difference from FLDS

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LDS again stress the difference from FLDS

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Shawn | 6:47 p.m. April 19, 2008

Both the LDS and the FLDS are mistaken. Jesus was opposed to and put an end to hierarchies of priesthoods (Hebrews7:28;9:12;10:12). There are many "ministries" mentioned in the NewTestament, including "apostles." The word apostoloi would be better translated "emissaries," that is people sent from one charismatic community to another with news and greetings, but never with any priesthood authority (because it was ended). These are functions, not offices that are priestly or episcopal. They derive from the Spirit, not from human organization or any bureaucracy (1Cor.2:11-16). They are never regulated or reduced to a hierarchy. These are strictly charismatic communities Paul writes his epistles to - that is why he addresses them to the entire community rather than to any specific person who is an "officer" in a priesthood. Not one of the Gospels mentions a Christian priest or priesthood. The world "elder" (presbyteroi) does not refer to an office. It simply means those who are older in the faith community. That is why Paul contrasts the elders with "young people" (1Peter5:1-5). Please do not be fooled by following a "prophet" or an "apostle" or an "elder" as an "office" in a false priesthood. Jesus ended all that.

Donna | 6:47 p.m. April 19, 2008

For heaven's sake, give it a rest. This is not appealing.

These silly press conferences could be held every day for five years and the public would still continue to connect Mormonism/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with polygamy. It's part of our past, our present, and our future.

Ugh!

The most effective way to rid the Church of this connection would be to:

- Denounce the practice by early Church leaders (although the public still won't care)
- Change the Church's name
- Change the name of The Book of Mormon

Otherwise, get a thicker skin.

Texas Ute | 6:51 p.m. April 19, 2008

Thank godness Janet you are beginning to see the light.

Comments continue below

To Janet | 6:59 p.m. April 19, 2008

To me, being a member of this church is about the Savior. I go to church to partake of the sacrament, to repent, to commune with the spirit. I am not perfect nor is anyone else in any church building.

Polygamy is something I don't think we can feel accepting of, because to have one companion to trust, to live and grow with is our greatest desire. It is against our nature to want to share our spouse physically, or for me, in any way.

I've cried over this principle, I can't imagine ever wanting to share my spouse and the thought of it is a tremendous emotional and physical pain.

I also cry over the thought of God destroying a whole people as He did a number of times in the Bible. How does He allow, or even command the slaughter of women, children, infants and I'm sure pregnant women? Did He make a mistake? Isaiah says "His ways are higher than our ways."

I can't imagine what Sara went through to have Abraham sleep with her handmaiden and bring the child that she could not.

I just try to accept that the restoration needed to include a lot.

Terry | 7:02 p.m. April 19, 2008

To To Janet | 6:59 p.m.,

God NEVER destroyed a whole people. Genocide has NEVER been part of God's program. Never.

The Bible contains a whole bunch of stories that are offensive, murderous, immoral, racist, sexist, and contain any number of sins. But if you really read the text you will find that God NEVER commands or endorses these sins! Never! And the stories always go on to show how the sins create problems later on. Ever time.

Do not be deceived. Polygamy was NEVER commanded by God. God's word is good and reliable. Read the Ten Commandments. They are still in force.

To: To Otis 12:15pm | 7:11 p.m. April 19, 2008

I think you may have misunderstood my point. The similarities people cite for mixing the LDS and FLDS are no different than the similarites between the other religions I cited. Thus, my point was that, when known, we should make an attempt to be clear that they are different. Who would say that the Greek Orthodox are nothing more than apostate Roman Catholics? No one. So why insist on confounding LDS with FLDS?

As for your question about those asking authentic questions and why they are sometimes labeled "anti", the comments section of this article are a perfect case and point. I see so much erroneous information, assumptions passed off as fact, illogical connections, and outright deception - and that in an anonymous forum - that when a genuine question is posed, how is one to distiguish? LDS folk are so bombarded with distortions about their faith that they often show the same defensive reflex to an honest questioner. Sincere questions can most effectively be addressed in person, and not through anonymous blogs/boards. You should ask your questions in person to an actual, practicing LDS member of your acquaintance.

Otis Spurlock

Consequences happen... | 7:22 p.m. April 19, 2008

I think it's great that people are being forced to acknowledge that there are consequences to all of their actions.

Even the LDS Church has to live with the consequences of the policies that they have taught in the past.

I'm glad that our society is becoming more enlightened and more willing to let go of problems from our past.

To Janet 6:18pm | 7:21 p.m. April 19, 2008

Did Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David (for the most part), etc. also make a mistake? Did Martin Luther make a mistake when he authorized bigamous unions? Are present day Muslims and Christians (in Africa) also making a mistake? And what lie are you talking about? Read D&C 132. It's in your own scriptures. If you attended seminary or institute, it is in the teaching material.

I assume you are serious and not just some internet phantom.

Joe | 7:22 p.m. April 19, 2008

I'm in my 50's. I was raised LDS in Utah, although I'm no longer active in the church and live in the eastern US. I remember that even when I was a child my grandmother had very harsh words for polygamists whom she had known while growing up. I didn't know what the word "polygamy" meant then, but I'll never forget her anger when she talked about them. Monogamous marriage is cherished in our family still, and I learned some wonderful family values from my experiences with the LDS church..

Roger | 7:18 p.m. April 19, 2008

Thanks Des News for your coverage. The ramifications are yet to be fully realized. They will eventually be of a positive nature leaving behind many disillusioned LDS members who, generally speaking know not the truth of their "only true Church."

What LDS & FLDS share, and can't be denied, is DC:132, 1."I the Lord justified...having many wives..." 3."...prepare to obey...this law revealed..." 4."I reveal...a new...everlasting covenant, (that if you don't obey you will not) enter into my glory."
61."...to espouse another, the 1st must...consent" 62."...if 10 virgins given unto him...they belong to him..." 64."...if a man teaches his wife the law...and she does not support him...she shall be destroyed...for I will destroy her..."

To understand the relationship between JS & God/Lord, & see why & how WJ would see himself a "Prophet" read DC:132, in full.

Fact: No Joseph and his invention, no Jeff and his enactments. Appreciable difference, Warren admits himself "false".

Funny clothes? In Temple secrecy. Teach Christ? In public. In classes, "Lives of LDS Prophets". More similarities than differences. "Obedience is the 1st law...order is the result."

Little wonder LDS concerned. Full disclosure?! YIKES!!

AP | 7:21 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am a LDS convert, but could never accept the concept of polygamy as it was practiced.
And I don't feel bad saying that all, there are many many members I know that feel the same.
And Mitt Romney called it "awful" in multiple interviews. Romney's great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, married his fifth wife in 1897. That was more than six years after Mormon leaders banned polygamy and more than three decades after a federal law barred the practice.

Romney's great-grandmother, Hannah Hood Hill, was the daughter of polygamists. She wrote vividly in her autobiography about how she "used to walk the floor and shed tears of sorrow" over her own husband's multiple marriages.

Oh Brother | 7:47 p.m. April 19, 2008

Roger,
Nice parsing of D&C 132. The "..." are a dead giveaway of destroyed context and meaning.

The section distinguishes between the new and everlasting covenant (eternal marriage without mention of number of spouses) and the law of Abraham (marrying more than 1 wife). Laws come and go - Law of Moses, Law of consecration, etc.. and the Law of Abraham.

WW declared the end of the practice of the Law of Abraham and Lorenzo Snow and JFS had to enforce it until it died. Ironically, "obedience as the first law" would have saved the FLDS from their current predicaments.

Many of your other declarations are equally deceptive and selective. We don't teach Christ in private, eh? You must have grown up FLDS.

No wonder people are confused.

Brian Utley | 7:56 p.m. April 19, 2008

Good grief! Why can't the Church get off it's high horse and stop worrying about its reputation? Why aren't they rallying to the needs and welfare of these people in Texas? The miscarriage of justice there is so clear that any fool could see those folks are suffering. Yet the Church is interested in distancing itself. It is unbelievable that this is what Momonism, so called, has come to. Pride. Pure pride. Instead of the humble providers of aid and comfort that any church worth its salt would be to those of their brothers and sisters who stand in need. Shame on the so-called "real" Mormons.

EX-LDS | 8:17 p.m. April 19, 2008

I don't care who made that fateful phone call or why, I'm just so happy the call was finally answered.
Way to go Texas!!

We have a duty to protect children from abuse, sexual or otherwise.

A choice cannot be made when there is no choice.

These FLDS women and children have no choices, they must submit and defer to their husbands for all decisions.
I can't tell you how many first cousins I have in Warren Jeffs FLDS, because I'm not sure. I know my Aunt gave birth (in this sect)to 22 children and where or how they are doing, I don't know.

Lets just hope this ordeal will be over as soon as possible for the sake of the children.

Jennifer | 8:25 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am LDS and so embarrassed about our history of polygamy. Does anyone else out there cringe when it is discussed in Sunday School? I believe that Joseph Smith started it out of selfish, evil desires. I even stated this to my bishop and stake president in my temple interviews and they both said that "maybe" that was the case. I think if the LDS church could just say, "Hey, we made a mistake" we could get a lot of this awful, evil stigma to go away.

Chewy | 9:02 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am LDS and I am not ashamed of our past with polygamy. The reason we did this was because There were more men than women, and the women needed to be taken care of. Not some "Sex Drive" or whatever you anti-mormon geniuses think. Anyway, we are long past practicing polygamy and anyone who is caught is excommunicated. See the difference? We don't wear clothes like we're stuck in the 1800's. We only have one spouse and usually they're over 18. I hope your satisfied.

LDS DOES | 9:24 p.m. April 19, 2008

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does believe in polygamy and still practice it in the spiritual sense in the Temple. A man to this day can be sealed to multiple women but still a woman can only be sealed to one man. Polygamy is alive and well. Utah has perpetuated this mess in Texas as they have allowed polygamy to flourish in Utah and at the expense of the taxpayer. Where is the outcry that a religion is supported by taxes??? Joseph had a vision for polygamy after he had sex with young teenage girls and other mens wives. mmmmmm how convenient that this truth is not printed for the world to know

why so much vitriol? | 9:30 p.m. April 19, 2008

"So the church posts a video on YouTube; the funny thing is, YouTube is blocked at BYU so students won't be able to see it."
-----------

why is it blocked?

-----------

Probably because the comments people leave on youtube videos are as inconsiderate and inane as these ones.

trufflelily | 10:07 p.m. April 19, 2008

It is well documented that Joseph Smith married multiple underage teen girls, as well as older teens and adult women. So, what's the real difference between LDS and FLDS? They both believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and follow his teachings. LDS may not openly acknowledge polygamy, but it is written in their doctrine (D and C 132). The FLDS it seems to me are just more honest in acknowledging what they really believe. The LDS choose to be deceptive.

I agree "trufflelily" | 10:15 p.m. April 19, 2008

Most of the general population in the LDS church believes as the contributor above that the surplus of women needed taken care of by the men and that it was only temporary. They don't know all of the facts above. It is sad and it is time for people to face the truth!

Elizabeth Anne K. | 10:23 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am LDS and my grandparents once mentioned to me how sad some of the plural wives were in my family who practiced polygamy with my Gr Gr Gr Grandfather. They said that my ancestors first wife was always treated the best while the others went without. I could go on and on about how horrible my grandparents said polygamy was for my pioneer ancestors, but it would take up too much time. All I can say is that my husband and myself will never practice plural marriage in this life nor the next. It is NOT OUR DESIRE to practice plural marriage and never will be. We have always question if it were truly a revelation from God or if Joseph Smith just turned to the dark side.

Fascinating! | 10:42 p.m. April 19, 2008

I really do find this discussion fascinating. Religious folk are so charmingly earnest when debating peculiarities of 'faith'...a thing of no measurable substance or body...it's all terribly amusing. Yes, yes...you may dismiss my meager opinions as that of a godless heathen (please pray for me if it makes you feel better--doesn't bother me in the slightest) but I did want to let the Des News community know that it really would be better if the mainstream Mormon leadership concentrated more on what they could do for these children and those brainwashed women rather than focusing on this silly PR strategy. Even us Godless Heathens will be able to tell the difference between you folks then.

I belong to the church of jesus | 10:52 p.m. April 19, 2008

I think it's pretty sad that many of you think that our church can do nothing right. If we were in Texas helping and supporting the FLDS church then people would say that our churches are working together which must make them the same. But by emphasizing the differences between the two religions we are suddenly horrible people because we aren't helping the FLDS enough. I for one trust my church leader's decisions on where to stand on this and all subjects. (I don't think what's going on over there is right. The kids need to stay with their mothers. But our church is not responsible for what the state of Texas is doing. We can only do so much.)

Anonymous | 10:52 p.m. April 19, 2008

Back in pioneer days, the United States had no laws against marriage for children and it was accepted in and out of the church that a thirteen year old could get married. However, the average lifespan back in pioneer days was 45 years old. There was more death due to small pox and influenza. The widowed wives were given to a chosen few however I venture to say it was not about sex. Go to the Gardner mill in Jordan Utah and look at Archibald's wives. I would say by the looks of them that it would have been more punishment then blessing. Most of the polygamists had very ugly wives. I rarely saw any younger girls in the mix. If they married a thirteen year old it would have been probly the first marriage and they were close to thirteen as well.

Lighten up | 11:08 p.m. April 19, 2008

Once when Mark Twain was lecturing in Utah, a Mormon acquaintance argued with him on the subject of polygamy. After a long and rather heated debate, the Mormon finally said, "Can you find for me a single passage of Scripture which forbids polygamy?"

"Certainly," replied Twain. "'No man can serve two masters.'"

Evin J. | 11:13 p.m. April 19, 2008

To all pretenders

How come some you active members contradict yourselves right and left-- like 10:52 P.M.. You support the leaders of your LDS church yet you say that FLDS children should be with their brainwashed mothers who only do what their husband demand and expect of them. Make some sense people! You people are the most confused, mix up, double standards, whacks on the face of the planet. None of you know what you want. You only pretend you know. By the way, I think polygamy is for heathens!

Opportunity for Service | 11:21 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am a member. I just want to say that I believe we as Latter-day Saints have an obligation to help correct the current "FLDS" situation. Our two traditions are born of the same roots, but theirs has obviously morphed into something terrible and sad. FLDS are our brethren and sisters, united by more than 99% of the same theology I reckon. Let us step forward to teach them that LAST 1%, which will make all the difference.

TO JENNIFER | 12:44 a.m. April 20, 2008

Where are you going to church? I am 50 years old and have never seen polygamy disussed in any Sunday School class. If it's true that both your bishop and stake president said "maybe" polygamy was based on Joseph Smith's evil desires, which I highly doubt, it was only to be polite to you and to avoid further disussion. You are lucky to have leaders who are so gracious.

Southern CA Porter Rockwell | 1:23 a.m. April 20, 2008

What don't you people understand? It is as easy as apples and oranges. Get it right!

. | 3:10 a.m. April 20, 2008

The LDS are advised not to even date until they are sixteen with boys near their age, and then to double date until at least 18. They are advised to concentrate on education. FLDS girls ages sixteen and under are forced to marry and bear children to older men and be one of multiple wives. Now if there isn't a difference, will someone explain that to me? Their freedom is taken from them. I have compassion for the moms and kids being separated, but who has compassion for the underage girls and the boys who are forced out of the communities?
Joseph Smith did not want to introduce polygamy. He waited for years. It was also a common practice for people to seal themselves to prophets to take their name only and that was it.

Jeffery T. | 7:45 a.m. April 20, 2008

I know that Polygamy is wrong and that is all that matters. Those who desire to go that direction in life are just lustful people following the ways of Satan.

I have never seen so many messed up emotional people as what I have read and seen on here.

Some of you need to ask forgiveness. The FLDS cult is nothing like LDS church.

The FLDS people are inspired by Satan only.

Jennifer | 8:37 a.m. April 20, 2008

I attend an LDS church in Utah county. I find it very hard to believe that you are 50 years old and have never heard polygamy discussed in Sunday School. I have on numerous occasions and I am 35. I believe that most people in the church share my distaste of polygamy (most women at least).

Right out of the... | 9:20 a.m. April 20, 2008

Mormon playbook! Instead of comforting the FLDS people and showing compassion, love, and support the LDS church is once again trying to separate themselves. The LDS church is all about perception; how they look to others, what others think of them, etc... What an opportunity for the LDS church to... (guess what??) REACH OUT. Instead they point fingers, show how different everyone else is, and then make the point how they are justified in doing so.

Love them as Jesus would, it's all about him anyway...Right?

-Andrew

Just my thoughts, but | 10:21 a.m. April 20, 2008

Isn't it time to step up to the plate?

Don't you LDS people think you should reach out and help the FLDS children? Wouldn't members of your faith be the most logical ones to understand their "unusual" beliefs?

Wake up folks!!! | 10:26 a.m. April 20, 2008

Talk about a missed missionary opportunity! If the Church would simply volunteer to help these poor children, we might be looking at over 400 new members, not to mention some GREAT P.R.

Couldn't they all be housed together in some college dorm, an old church, or even the MTC?

Beckstrand in Bakersfield | 10:55 a.m. April 20, 2008

Multiple Marriage is still very much apart of alot of Morman life in and around Salt lake it is an unspoke of life style that is very much alive and well. If the LDS church put a stop to it really, instead of turning their heads the other way, it would keep, the keep sweet abuse, lost boys, and welfare and medicare fraud abuse from happening. Every tax paying person in any state that continues to call these abuse's religious freedom is irresponsible and just plan sticking their head in the sand.

biblereader | 11:49 a.m. April 20, 2008

When the state determines what is appropriate for religious values, then where is religious freedom?

In the world there are more cultures where woman marry as a norm in their teens and marriages are arranged, than the opposite. For that matter, the authorized practice of polygamy is common.

The FLDS teach values we do not like, so we find excuses to persecute them. There fences could not keep us out, they were never intended to keep the believers in.

And, for those that call this farce, right because it protects children. Please check out the reported abuse that occurs in the Texas foster care system, and for that matter foster care systems throughout the nation.

Texas, has forever tarnished itself for any that believe and value the U.S Constitution and the 2nd amendment. But, it is doing no less than the U.S. President and congress in the 1800's. Let if never be said that this country is governed by a constitution which protects religious liberty, not now, not in the 1880's.

For those that value constitutional law and religious freedom, Texas reminds in our land such is myth from which legends are made.

Rulon | 11:53 a.m. April 20, 2008

Perhaps if the same plea might be given to the posters on here. A lot display the same ignorance. Apparently it's a human thing.

Georgia | 1:13 p.m. April 20, 2008

Some of you who state the LDS Church and FLDS Church have very little in common are either being comedic or are ignorant.

Think it through. Which religion out there professes Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor were God's prophets?

That's right--the LDS Church and various LDS splinter groups. Even the RLDS Church only recognizes Joseph Smith as a prophet.

Which churches recognize The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price as the word of God?

That's right--the LDS Church and its offshoots.

Which "Christian" churches practiced polygamy during the last 150 years (including the marriage of girls under the age of 18)?

Once again, the LDS Church and splinter groups from it (except the RLDS).

Which "Christian" churches build "temples?"

The LDS Church and its variants.

I regard the LDS variant church members as "Mormons," just as I do myself.

Right now, I find it puzzling that the Church wants to not allow them the privilege of being called "Mormons," while at the same time professing we ought to be recognized as "Christians" by others who feel we don't fit the mold.

Jared | 4:15 p.m. April 20, 2008

The LDS church needs to keep their nose out of this one. It can only bring condemnation to a religion that is already scorned over polygamy. Don't touch the poison. It will kill you.

Steve | 5:21 p.m. April 20, 2008

As someone who has been asked repeatedly about how many mothers I have (can you believe it?), I am glad the Church is doing something to dispel the erroneous beliefs of ignorant Americans and Europeans. But no matter how much the Church does it will not be enough, because the media love to improve ratings and sales with the salacious.

To Jennifer | 5:38 p.m. April 20, 2008

I have to agree with Jennifer. Most LDS cringe about the subject of polygamy. I have been in many discussions in sunday school about this subject. I am a young women's leader and I teach the girls that polygamy is wrong now and it was wrong 150 years ago. An upset parent went to my bishop and he backed me up (I still haven't been released 4 years later). I have seen two LDS girls from our area join up with the FLDS. I think the LDS church needs to abandon its practice of defending polygamy in the past.

latter day saint... | 5:48 p.m. April 20, 2008

i am grateful that i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints.i do agree with what one of the comments said. for those who are confused about these news reports ask a friend who maybe a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. look at the church website or ask a neighbor or an LDS missionary. im sure they can answer the questions you have been longing to ask.

Robo force | 6:10 p.m. April 20, 2008

Steve
Did someone take your fingers and push them down on your computer keyboard? I really feel sorry for you. I hope that you can live a normal life someday without someone telling you what to say and do. Thats only if you are truly a little boy. Tell your daddy he needs to let you think and breath on your own, along with all your little sisters.

to Janet | 6:48 p.m. April 20, 2008

I am in the same tormented boat that you are. I have considered leaving LDS faith because of polygamy and my husband is a bishop. Do others in our church feel the same. I feel very alone and scared to voice my feelings on this.

What's the Secret? | 7:42 p.m. April 20, 2008

I noticed another difference between the FLDS and the LDS.

The FLDS are SKINNY.

I hope they come out with a diet book/cookbook!

G | 7:51 p.m. April 20, 2008

Beckstrand in Bakersfield:

"If the LDS church put a stop to it really, instead of turning their heads the other way, it would keep, the keep sweet abuse, lost boys, and welfare and medicare fraud abuse from happening."

Ah, but the LDS church *did* try to put a stop to polygamy. Go read the Wiki page on the "Short Creek Raid". The church supported that atrocity publicly, and was stamped on the foot for it when the media got wind of the cruelty involved. That was the end of LDS support of anti-polygamy raids. And rightly so, in my opinion.

Funny how the church gets blamed now for Utah not kicking in every polygamist compound in the state. Some people will criticize the church no matter what it does.

To Janet and To Jennifer | 8:22 p.m. April 20, 2008

Maybe Jacob should abandon Leah as his plural wife that way Christ would not be of the house of Isreal

Just my 2 cents | 8:57 p.m. April 20, 2008

Does anyone know for a fact that the LDS church is NOT doing something to offer support or help of any kind?! As far as Polygamy in the history of the LDS church goes, it happened. I know for a fact that I wouldn't exist it not for it. Neither would my grandparents, parents, siblings, or my children.
We seem to talk about Polygamy like it was a church wide activity when in reality only a small percentage actually practiced it. And, of those who did practice it, most didn't have more than 2 wives.
Now, I personally couldn't live the law of polygamy, but I can easily say that because it is not part of our teaching. However, I believe Joseph Smith was commanded to take plural wives. He received the revelation a couple of years before he actually began practicing it. HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT! He knew it wouldn't be received well. Only God knows why he was commanded to do it. However, we do find it in the Bible. Look at King David for example. He had many wives and concubines, but he got in trouble for taking the one he wasn't given!

Andrea | 9:11 p.m. April 20, 2008

Re 6:48

Dear Friend,

I also feel the same as you and Janet. I cannot tolerate the polygamy issue. I was born and raised LDS and have ancestors who practiced plural marriage. My husband is still active, but I am not. I have been inactive for 3 years. Polygamy is WRONG! and I left the church because I believe Plural Marriage is all a big lie.

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