Deseret News | LDS again stress the difference from FLDS

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LDS again stress the difference from FLDS

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London | 10:56 a.m. April 19, 2008

Now that is funny.

To me, the only difference between FLDS and the LDS is the "F" word.

rdha | 11:02 a.m. April 19, 2008

It's an interesting dilema going on right now concerning the FLDS in Texas. I am a proud member of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day-Saint and I have been my whole life. I can testify of the HUGE difference between the LDS Church and the FLDS Church. We do not practice polygamy and everyone in the church has their moral agency; especially who they would like to marry, at which age, and what to study & or train for a career. I feel very sorry for those of the FLDS faith whose lives have been affected for the worst in Texas. I also feel sad for those in the FLDS faith who feel they don't have a choice in their lives. Especially the young girls who have their innocence and chastity stripped from them by misguided older men. I hope and pray that much good will come out of this big fat tragedy in Texas and more people can tell the difference between LDS and FLDS. I would choose Thomas S. Monson over Warren Jeffs for a prophet anyday. I'm so grateful and thankful for the truth I have in my life. God's Church really blesses my life. FANTASTIC!!

Anon | 11:13 a.m. April 19, 2008

One hundred and twenty years ago, you wouldn't be able to distinguish the two sects. If the LDS church had NOT gone in another direction due to political pressure, the two would still be indistinguishable to this day. The fact is that Joseph Smith set in motion a theology which is being practiced much more faithfully by the FLDS than by the current Mormon church.

So to split hairs seems kind of silly -- the word "Mormon" refers to people who believe in a certain book, the "Book of Mormon", just as people who believe in Christ are called "Christians". If the current LDS church is upset at being lumped together with a breakaway sect, they need to go back and re-examine their origins, starting with D&C section 132.

Comments continue below

Anonymous | 11:38 a.m. April 19, 2008

"Shame on us, Peoples Rights are being Violated and we are worried the world may get us confused, I think ill find a more Crist like Religion, im sure there is one out there some where."

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! This is the FIRST statement of this nature that I've heard in the days since this rats' nest of perfidy was uncovered that I've heard from a member of the LDS.

It restores some of my belief in human nature that you can rise above your personal discomfort to consider the magnitude of what's happened to the women and children of that place and the places like it in UT & AZ.

Shane | 11:48 a.m. April 19, 2008

The more LDS leaders emphasize differences with polygamist groups, the more they draw attention to their own polygamist past. The more you struggle against the truth, the more mired you will become. Jesus dealt with this problem very simply. Only His truth can set you free:

"Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. [consider] seven brethren: the first died having no children. The second brother married her, then died also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. In the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew22:23-32)

Big "D" | 11:51 a.m. April 19, 2008

Getting lost in all this are the innocent victims, the children, I'm not so concerned about the LDS image as I am saddened and worry for all these kids. It is coming to a head finally. I blame Utah and Arizona for turning the other way for all these years. Texas has done what should have been done a long, long time ago. Why didn't officials in Utah and AZ stop the madness before? Makes me think there has been sympathy for the FLDS. A more Christ-like response would be concern and an offer to help the women and children of the FLDS and not worry about "image" or confusion between the FLDS groupand the LDS Church, of which I am a member.

scarecrowfromoz | 11:59 a.m. April 19, 2008

We want the right to be called Christians because we say we are, even though "traditional" Christians don't accept us, and on the other hand we want to DENY FLDS calling themselves Mormons, because only we are Mormons. Anyone else see a problem with this? Maybe now LDS will understand why "traditional" Christians don't want to be associated with LDS calling themselves Christians, the same way LDS don't want FLDS calling themselves Mormons.

"We don't live in isolated compounds." DUH, what are BYU, the missionary training center, and members on missions? Members at any of those are controlled as much as anyone at the FLDS compound and have as many of their liberties most people enjoy every day taken away, all in the name of religion.

"We don't dress in old fashioned clothing." DUH, what are white shirts and ties??? Have the LDS people looked at how modern people dress? LDS stick out like a sore thumb in SLC because they look like they are dressed for the 1950s.

"We don't dress in unusual hairstyles." DUH, again, men look like they got their haircut from the 1950s.

Outside looking in | 12:04 p.m. April 19, 2008

It is interesting that Elder Cook focuses on the difference between the fashion and hairstyles of the women who belong to the two churches. It seems to be a rather superficial comparison to me.

Chrystal Fabian | 12:09 p.m. April 19, 2008

I would just like to say I feel bad for all of the children and mothers. A mothers bond between her and her child is sacred, I just couldnt see how people could live a life like the FLDS. I dont understand at all. I belong to THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS and I know this church is true, and to see the media bash it because of a seperate religious sect is baffling. There are many differences between the lds and the flds, but im more concerned on what happens to these crazy men! How are they going to be punished? What they did was wrong! Where are these childrens rights? Why are 16 year old girls getting married? I mean what is this? Do people really live like this. Ive lived through a lot within the last 19 years, but would never think people lived like this(in modern day). Everyone please say youre prayers for these families, judges and lawyers, that they may do whats best for the children.

To Otis | 12:15 p.m. April 19, 2008

You made the point well. Those LDSers that loudly say that the FLDS has NOTHING to do with the LDS are not helping the case they're trying to make.

The question that i've got concerns "questioning." As an outsider I very often see even authentic "questioning" of the LDS and it's leadership labeled "Anti." ... i'm not talking about "haters" but just those that question. Why is that?

Beeswax | 12:20 p.m. April 19, 2008

To "Find out for yourself":

Actually, the Catholic and Protestant churches ARE the same--CHRISTIAN. They are just different sects of same church, just as the LDS and FLDS are both sects of the MORMON movement. The Catholic church recognizes baptisms performed by other Christian sects. It DOES NOT recognize baptisms performed by Mormons.

bilbo...again | 12:28 p.m. April 19, 2008

Religions historian Walsh said he also studies the mainstream Mormon church, which renounced polygamy a century ago and has no ties to the FLDS. He said without the polygamy aspect, the FLDS would resemble the Baptist or Catholic religions."

ALSO: I feel...
this last paragraph explains why the buses used to transport the FLDS members to the holding pens were labelled as "Baptist" vehicles...just helping another brother out....they may even loan the buses to Westboro BAPTIST Church for their next US Soldier field trip.

Splitting Hairs. | 12:41 p.m. April 19, 2008

Splitting hairs seems kind of silly -- the word "Mormon" refers to people who believe in a certain book, the "Book of Mormon", just as people who believe in Christ are called "Christians".

D&C section 132 was practiced by the LDS church just as it has been and is being practiced by the FLDS.

Box Elder Bee | 12:51 p.m. April 19, 2008

Isn't this just a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

Brothers and Sisters | 1:11 p.m. April 19, 2008

I respectfully disagree with Elder Cook's approach here. We should not be so quick to disavow and judge members of the FLDS church. It is true that they lack the light of recent Gospel revelations that we enjoy in the LDS church, but their lifestyles and values are much more aligned with ours than with the secular world. As President Hinckley taught, let us not be ashamed of our status as a "peculiar people" too.

No Win Situation | 1:17 p.m. April 19, 2008

I find it humorous reading many of the comments from this article and others relating to the FLDS compound in Texas.

No matter what the LDS church does, people will find fault with it. If the LDS church lends a helping hand to the FLDS in Texas people will claim they support child abuse, underage marriage, etc.

If they try to clarify the differences between the two churches, people claim the LDS church is not accepting and doesn't care about the children, etc.

Of course that is to be expceted. Anybody who spends even a small amount of time on these message boards knows that there is nothing the LDS church can do or say that doesn't have certain people on here twisting it around and expressing their dislike for the church. For that matter, issues that haven nothing to do with the church will often turn into a "Mormon bashing" session. Go figure...

if all you guys had | 1:18 p.m. April 19, 2008

a strong testimony as you claim , you follow your leader.

kbm | 1:20 p.m. April 19, 2008

Perhaps if the various news outlets simply described the FLDS as the group that still follows the original 19th century teachings of Joseph Smith, the founder and initial prophet of the Mormon Church, whereas the LDS abandoned some of those teachings in exchange for Utah statehood, it would help distinguish in people's minds the difference between the FLDS and the LDS church. The news organizations could just ignore all of the similarities as that would just keep things too confusing.

Selling Papers | 1:22 p.m. April 19, 2008

Deseret does not take care of business in Utah

Amazed | 1:23 p.m. April 19, 2008

Ben, Individual states may have had laws against polygamy, but the Federal Government made it a crime that was aimed at pressuring Mormons. The territory of Utah had representation in Congress, but when the people elected a polygamist to represent them he was not allowed to take his seat in Washington. I do not know if federal polygamy laws were enforced anywhere else, do you?

Whether or not polygamy was sanctioned by doctrine, it was sanctioned by the example of Church leaders and their interpretation of doctrine.

The fact remains that a good many of today's Mormons are uncharitable toward religious groups that have been persecuted by governmental authorities - even though their own people suffered similar persecution. They would do more for their image by championing religious freedom and the sanctity of the family than joining those who mock and vilify the FLDS.

Aaron | 1:25 p.m. April 19, 2008

I'm disgusted with you anti-Mormons in Utah. The Southern Baptist friends I grew up with in Texas disagreed with me, but they were respectful, even when warning me about Hell. Anti-Mormons show contempt not only for the LDS faith they fear, but for others as well. They're the same sort of breed who hate African Americans and Jews. We should let the courts deal with this whole issue with the FLDS in Texas, and keep our mouths shut in the meantime.

Anonymous | 1:26 p.m. April 19, 2008

As far as I am concerned the 2 are the same...both cults and both an abomination is the sight of God

Re: Amazed | 2:21 a.m. | 1:29 p.m. April 19, 2008

ï¿½There was no law against polygamy until one was passed for the express purpose of pressuring the LDS Churchï¿½s authority.ï¿½

Not true. Most all states had bigamy laws on the books in the 19th century. They were derived from similar laws enacted in England during the 17th century. Refer to ï¿½Revised Laws of Illinois 1833," Section 121, pp. 198-199.

john b | 1:32 p.m. April 19, 2008

some body said the LDS should help these people the baptist tried by furnishing buses so thay wouldn't be crowed and i have not seen agood line on it yet

Mahonri | 1:41 p.m. April 19, 2008

I wish Elder Cook had also pointed out that most Mormon Fundamentalists "do not live in isolated compounds, arrange marriages, dress in old-fashioned clothing or wear unusual hairstyles," like FLDS members do.

Most Mormon Fundamentalists get married around the age of 21, have never experienced child abuse, and many have college degrees and own their own businesses. Some are your doctors, teachers, lawyers, real estate agents, and computer technicians. They do not look or act differently in the outside world from anyone else.

TheMadNuker | 1:42 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am so glad to know that the LDS women don't wear
old fashioned clothes, and weird hair. Because some
of the bloggers would have the States/CPS Pinnacles
of Honor and Virtue, kick in your doors, and enslave
your children. I must also say, that the absolute
hate, that passes for intelligent discourse is very
revealing of darkened minds.Lets be honest, if these
people were Muslim,or some other protected political class, this whole incident would have not happened.

texasgirl | 1:53 p.m. April 19, 2008

To "grandmab5g3"... Really you feel the FLDS and LDS are totally separate. And you have the right to choose. So you can choose what to wear, what to eat, what to drink, how to spend your Sundays. You can choose what time you go to church, how to serve your church. You can choose how to spend all of your money, you can choose what movies to watch, tv to watch and music to listen to. Ummm.... there are more similarities than you think. The FLDS women think they have a choice as well.

Amazing! | 2:28 p.m. April 19, 2008

That the LDS Church is so anxious to distance it's self from the FLDS. Why have they not said anything in defense of mothers and their children who have been criminally separated. Where is all the compassion? If it was a bunch of Mexicans or Islamics involved they would be all over the airways on their behalf!

the DEFLECTOR | 2:43 p.m. April 19, 2008

take care of the missionaries , don't put them in danger by supporting dumb thoughts as people read these blogs and the missionaries shouldn't have to defend all the time against something that isn't there!

Joyce | 3:26 p.m. April 19, 2008

I was a Mormon, however, when the Bishop of my Ward, the Bishop was married, had an affair that was it for me. Also, my father left my mother, me and my sister when I was very young. We did not have much at all. We did not even have curtains on our windows, not enough food, water turned off, doing laundry at the laundromat, etc. My mother always gave money to the church although we did not have it to give. I would suggest to my mother not to give our money to the church because we needed it badly. The Bishop knew our circumstances and had no problem taking our money. We definetly needed it more then the Mormon Church and I know he could see that. Looking back what church would take money from a single mother barley surving with two small children? I question all of this to this day. Someone from the Mormon Church please respond.

Denice | 3:23 p.m. April 19, 2008

Diane,
If you want facts, I'll teach you. I'm a female. Just let me know if you want me to. The reason it's important to know the difference between the two religions is: if it isn't known to the world, will injustices be brought upon the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Think about it people! This is critical.
I did ask an attorney about the legality of this business. In a typical abuse case, every child in a home is removed. This is typical in every state. But, the problem was there were 416 children in this home (compound). The mistakes that Texas Authorities made are: they didn't substantiate the claims first. The second mistake they made was since there were so many children in the compound, it would've been better to remove the men from the compound instead of the children. Typically it's men who are perpetrators. Then, they should've done their investigations there. And if they didn't want the women to be present, send them somewhere else on the compound. They still could do this. Tax dollars then would be better utilized. Unless they have some kind of political agenda doing this.

to youtube blocked? | 3:49 p.m. April 19, 2008

The reason youtube is blocked on campus at BYU is simply because all the freshman who live in the dorms and use the on-campus internet would stay up all night long watching videos on youtube and would take up all the bandwidth which would prevent those who have been in school longer and who actually try to use the internet for scholastic purposes from doing the work they need to. It's not blocked because it's "bad" just because administrators KNOW keeping it open would take up TONS of the bandwidth.

Duff | 3:44 p.m. April 19, 2008

There is only one difference between the FDLS and the LDS church. ONE difference and ONE difference only. And you all know what that minor difference is. Stop pretending they are from another planet from the SLC mormons.

Ken Goddard | 4:17 p.m. April 19, 2008

They both believe in that scoundrel Joe Smith and a fairy tale so whats the difference. Seems to me one is the parent and the other is the affiliate. Or are they both affiliates of the original one is Missouri (can't think of its name right now).

DIfferences | 4:30 p.m. April 19, 2008

I only have one question. The FLDS are polygamists. The LDS claim that in 1880 divine revelation meant that polygamy needed to end, but didn't actually end until 1906. Why is it that multiple General Authorities have been sealed to multiple women for time and all eternity?

John Lambert | 4:31 p.m. April 19, 2008

The FLDS church does not follow the original teachings of Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not violate laws against marriage to underage girls. This is because such laws were less stringent then, but it is a worthwhile point.
People also have to accept that the church has an institutional history. The point is there is a succession in the priesthood. President Monson holds the keys, Warren Jeffs does not.

New Testament Christian | 4:38 p.m. April 19, 2008

I do not believe in Joseph Smith any more than I do the pope. The only way to get to Heaven is through Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible,every thing else is a fraud.Once Christ was crucified and the temple wall/door was torn open everyone can approach The Holy Spirit.
The Bible alone is the true divine word and nothing else is relevant,it is a sin to believe in anything else.
There is but one true living Church and it is the Church that Christ founded.
The hierarchy in so many religions is wrong,you only need to read the Bible and obey Christs word.
There are no prophets living today,everyone today is a mortal human being that have all sinned and fallen short of Gods glory and can only be forgiven by prayer and belief in God.
The book of Mormon,the koran,the catholic books are not right or needed.
Christ and Christ alone through the Holy Bible.

Ken Goddard | 4:39 p.m. April 19, 2008

I would like to apologize for my insensitive comment on this board and others in the past. My ignorance sometimes gets the better of me; my heart goes out to these children.

To Joyce | 4:59 p.m. April 19, 2008

I am sorry that you had a rough childhood. My husband came from very similar circumstances. About the bishop...as unfortunate as it may be, people of this church make mistakes...even very big ones. It is sad and terrible for the family, but we surely cannot expect all in God's church to be perfect, not even our leaders.

About the money...I am very surprised that no one in your ward helped your mother out. Perhaps she is a very independant woman who didn't want to ask for help? The church is set up to help in many ways. My husband's family received money to help from time to time with paying bills, they used the Bishop's storehouse for food and they were frequently given support by the church. They were also recipients of "secret Santas" at Christmas time. Did this mean that they were suddenly out of poverty? No, but they survived. Tithing is a principle of faith in God. It is not because the church "needed" your mothers money. It is a commandment of God, and your mother could only receive certain blessings when she was faithful enough to pay tithing. Read about the widow's mite in the Bible.

About sealings | 5:02 p.m. April 19, 2008

Just so you all know, technically LDS women CAN be sealed to more than one husband. They have to wait until they have passed on, though, and then someone can seal them by proxy to as many men as they were married to in this life. That is according to the Church Handbook.

ND | 5:05 p.m. April 19, 2008

RobertM - The FLDS do not believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet. They believe he was a fallen prophet.

To Texasgirl | 5:12 p.m. April 19, 2008

Yes, women in the LDS church can choose for themselves. We ALL can. Yes, we have standards that we are expected to live by, but we CAN choose to dress however we chose, eat whatever we want, drink whatever we feel like, how to spend our Sundays, etc.
We will not be worthy for a temple recommend (the consequence of our choice), but we are 100% welcome in the church. We will not lose our children or our home, we will still be allowed to attend church and virtually all activities associated with it.

There will be consequences for our choices, eternal and during this lifetime...there are consequences for EVERYONE'S choices on this earth. If you chose to sleep with your coworker and tell off your boss and steal from your company, you may lose your job. That didn't mean that you had no choices. You will simply have a consequence. Obviously, FLDS women can chose to try to leave the compound, their consequences are just much harsher than the consequences that an LDS woman would face if she chose to stray from the doctrine. The consequences are so harsh that many are too afraid to leave.

Sam Clemens | 5:13 p.m. April 19, 2008

Joseph had wifes that were 20 years or more younger. Brigham had some that were 30 and even 40 years younger. Same-same. Only difference is that the other happened years ago and the history has been written favorably by the church trying to cover up that it is based on men of very low moral fiber.

Mr. Lambert... | 5:28 p.m. April 19, 2008

I do not know what the laws on the books said regarding marrying underage girls in the 1830's and 1840's, but I'm not quite sure why a prophet of God would marry two 14-year-old girls (Helen Mar Kimball & Nancy Wincester) and two 16-year-old girls (Fanny Alger & Flora Ann Woodworth), not to mention the 3 or 4 17-year-old girls he married. Joseph Smith was a polygamist and not much different from the current FLDS men we've all been talking about.

CPW | 5:51 p.m. April 19, 2008

Fault finders will never find truths. It will be the truth seekers who will find the answers. And answers are available to those truly seeking,

There certainly is a | 5:55 p.m. April 19, 2008

Difference so make it final. It's time to admit that these people were a result of the terrible teaching of polygamy. It was almost the dimise of the LDS church and it will be the dimise of the FLDS.

Karl | 6:04 p.m. April 19, 2008

Well, it certainly looks like there is a lot to question on here. I do not think it is all fault finding by any means. Just concerned folks looking for the truth. Something we all desire to know. No one like to live a lie when its right in front of their faces. You can see it and you cannot deny it.

Janet | 6:18 p.m. April 19, 2008

I just pray that the church leaders will come out one day and say to all the members that Joseph Smith made a mistake about polygamy, because he was battling with both good and evil. I could accept this easily. Otherwise, I don't think I can live this lie any longer.

REMO | 6:41 p.m. April 19, 2008

Amazing! | 2:28 p.m. Apr. 19, 2008
That the LDS Church is so anxious to distance it's self from the FLDS. Why have they not said anything in defense of mothers and their children who have been criminally separated. Where is all the compassion? If it was a bunch of Mexicans or Islamics involved they would be all over the airways on their behalf!

Ain't that the truth? For whom do these illegals work and make money for? Find the answer to that and bingo!

DB | 6:47 p.m. April 19, 2008

for anyone to say that the FLDS are just like the LDS is dumb. That is like saying that Lutherans or Methodists are just like Catholics. Or any other religion for that matter, they all came from the Catholic church except for the LDS church.

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