Deseret News | Reader comments: Not all 'Idol' finalists are treated equally

Reader comments
Not all 'Idol' finalists are treated equally

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Joe | 3:27 a.m. April 18, 2008

there is one fellow that is a judge
that fellow should get another job
he critise everybody if he hates them so much then he should listen to news instead of songs to that person couldnt judge a pet show get a new job
there was a few singers that went on they were not bad at all but you knocked them down just the same tell me do you like yourself ? you need help buddy
talk to a shrink you need it!!!if your wondering if i sing the answer would be no not really but im not on your show
I wouldnt embarrass myself in front of millions of viewers im not a singer
but i know good voices when i hear it
some singers yes i know they were not really good enough but some were and you knocked them down you need a new job
Joe

AI Faithful | 5:41 a.m. April 18, 2008

You made it a lot further in that competition than you deserved to, Carmen. Your voice is just not remarkable beyond the bizarre vibrato. Reality check time, dear. Your whining and naming names 5 years after the fact sound quite sour grapes and unattractive. No one is buying that you're bringing it up to apply to this season, you know. Record straight: Aiken didn't do better because of extra coaching, as you're implying, that's for darn sure. Some friend you turned out to be.

WOW | 6:05 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, you sure sound bitter. However, you just weren't as good the the others on season 2.

Comments continue below

Tracy | 6:59 a.m. April 18, 2008

Wow Carmen...have you and Kim Locke been chatting with each other?? What's up with the Aiken diss? Sorry honey but after watching AI Rewind Season 2, I agree with the poster above who felt you went farther in that competition than you should have. If Clay received extended coaching maybe it was because his voice is outstanding?? Maybe if you had mentioned a few other AI2 alumni in your article, it wouldn't look like sour grapes. He knew how to dissect his performance. You didn't. Your fellow AI2 performers were at their own mercy to figure out how to prepare week after week since I don't think Debra Byrd was a 'qualified' vocal coach IMO.

Janet | 7:08 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, You don't sound bitter. It sounds like you are just telling the truth about what your experience was. God bless you in your career. You have what it takes to make it in country music, and don't let a handful of hateful people ever stop you or slow you down. Keep the faith.

I like being fair | 7:11 a.m. April 18, 2008

I treat them all equally. I don't watch the show, don't watch any of them, and don't buy any of their music. I like being fair and I believe that I am.

Bill | 7:15 a.m. April 18, 2008

Reply to Al and WOW! Don't hammer down on someone for being honest from their point of view. Favoritism takes place in every walk of life and she is just pointing out that it happens on idol as well. Yes those people were better than her and for some reason coaches tend to work even more with those they perceive as better instead of those that really need it. Wake up and look around you sometime!

Nebraska | 7:49 a.m. April 18, 2008

I enjoy watching the various talents on the show, but just like all "reality" shows, the show is there for the money. The person that will bring in the viewers is the one that will stay regardless of the amount of talent.

Several seasons ago I quit watching 'Idol' because Cowell is such an .... (how can I put it??? He doesn't even qualify to be the north end of a southbound donkey!)

Thanks for your perspective on the show.

Cassandra | 7:53 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, I enjoyed your performances on AI, and I enjoy your work now. I think the commenters here are being too hard on you.

But I don't think you were denied coaching. I suspect Clay, who was older and more experienced -- as well as being a perfectionist -- went into the session with lots of questions for Ms. Byrd. My guess is that she wasn't allowed to just 'make over' people's performances her own way. But if a singer already knows what he or she wants and is interested in trying different methods to achieve the effects, then the coach is able to help. Did you ask specific questions? Did you already have the song analyzed when you arrived? Perhaps you did but maybe not as much as Clay did.

I must add, too, that Clay has always been supportive and complementary to you. He seemed to always be the one who cheered you up when critics were less than kind. I am curious why in recent years you seem to be less and less kind to him.

Hi Carmen | 7:47 a.m. April 18, 2008

I have stood up for you a couple of times during your run so far writing these articles for DN, and think you really are trying to do your best, but got to admit. When I read this article, you really sounded rather bitter as some of the other posters stated. I don't think you necessarily meant to, but it really came across that way. Perhaps it just wasn't a good "writer's" day for you.

Great insight Carmen | 7:52 a.m. April 18, 2008

Keep it up, it's good to hear perspective from a contestant on the show instead of the journalists who 'fawn' over the 'phenomena' that Idol has become. It's a competition and those who work hard to improve give themselves the best chance to go far. Thanks for the article!

Old geezer in Arizona | 8:09 a.m. April 18, 2008

I did not think Carmen sounded bitter at all. I am a senior citizen who has taken a liking to AI in the past 2 or 3 years and I am appreciative of behind-the-scenes insights that someone like Carmen is able to offer. It's helps me to better understand the show's dynamics.

I have read several of Carmen's AI reports over the past few weeks. IMO, her positive and informative approach overall are a better indication of where she is coming from than trying to read too much into one particular article. I see no reason to attribute a negative "agenda" to her useful and informative comments about how the vocal coaching worked during her Idol experience. If she has a little bias (and I am not saying that she does), so what? Doesn't everyone?

Carmen sounds like a good person so I hope she keeps offering her insights, even at the risk of offending a few overly sensitive types. I am not familiar with her music (or the music of any AI folks from the first 4 seasons for that matter) but I suspect she has a fine talent and is leading a well balanced life.

LoJ | 8:14 a.m. April 18, 2008

I just don't understand what you are trying to imply - that you got less coaching because you are from Utah? And because you think they were discriminating against perceived Utah Mormons? What a lame claim. You lost my respect with your singing. Now this article is just an embarrassment! Move on and get a job at Walmart or something for which you are qualified. Obviously, you don't know a thing about the performing industry!

My Perspective | 8:30 a.m. April 18, 2008

Maybe he just asked for more help? Wasn't he a music major or something? That may have had something to do with it.

If the coaches automatically helped out the contestants, then they would be held responsible if the advice given is not well received by the judges. It makes perfect sense for them not to go out of the way to give a contestant coaching unless that contestant ASKS for it. It has to be the contestants decision. That's the only fair way to do it!

Toby | 8:32 a.m. April 18, 2008

I had originally been a Carmen fan. When she couldn't sing as well as the rest as the season progressed, I kept expecting her to go home. Kim Locke had much more range and appealing tone. I thought I liked Carmen as a person, but now not. You mention Clay Aiken getting more assistance, but the funny thing is, he WAS NOT THE CHOSEN ONE, Ruben was. And Simon made no question as to that, and even went so far to say, 'We've got a problem. I want Ruben and Clay in the finale and Kimberley just had a great rehearsal." Favoritism is everywhere. In all walks of life. Get used to it Carmen, esp. in this business. It is a dog eat dog industry.

Millie Craven | 8:39 a.m. April 18, 2008

I enjoy watching the show and to make it to the top seven is spectacular! I do not like the gal with all the tatoo's on her arm, although she has a good voice, I do really like the kid from UTAH! Good luck to him!

just me | 8:40 a.m. April 18, 2008

I am sure Carmen has wanted to get this out in the air for a long time...give her a break, it's something that has bothered her and she's allowed to let it go. Good for you Carmen!

Whatiswrongwiththispicture? | 8:41 a.m. April 18, 2008

How can anybody watch something as mindless and moronic as American Idol? Isn't there something better to be doing? Like picking your teeth or twiddling your thumbs?

Have you ever read a book?

Dirk Strongjaw | 8:44 a.m. April 18, 2008

Wah, Clay got more time than me. Wah. Get over it.

Got to make a point here, considering some have mentioned that Ms. Rasmussen got farther than she should have. Here's the secret - Mormon's LOVE to vote for their own. It's true; think Romney, Archuleta, Benji on "So You Think You Can Dance," etc. To clarify, I am a practicing Mormon as well, but have never voted on AI. Regardless, Mormon's vote vote vote for other Mormon's, it's what we do, and, often, we do it regardless of talent or qualifications just so long as they're LDS. Carmen should be grateful that she got as far as she did because the vocal lessons probably had little to do with it.

Second, maybe Clay asked for more time, pushed for it. Maybe he was more gracious and grateful for the time and thus the coach was more willing to work with him. We're just getting one, seemingly slightly bitter, point of view. I'd like to know waht others thought of the time.

Or, maybe Ms. Rasmussen just didn't write that section that well and we're all misinterperting it.

Me | 9:02 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen was simply sharing an experience of hers in regards to the fact that some contestants got more coaching and some less. Aiken just happened to be the one in the room with Byrd while she sat outside and waited for 30 min. Do you honestly think she wouldn't have told the same story about another season 2 alum if they had been the one working with Byrd for 30 min. before her short session? There was nothing bitter about it. It was just an example to illustrate a point.

Re: Whatiswrongwiththispicture? | 9:14 a.m. April 18, 2008

And yet you took the time to read an article about AI AND THEN post a comment.

Anonymous | 9:16 a.m. April 18, 2008

Wow, I really hope Carmen doesn't read this, because people can be so mean. I wasn't a huge fan of her voice, but I greatly respected the way she carried herself, and always dressed modestly. That was more impressive than anything to me!

Good luck with everything, Carmen. Ignore the critics!

Not as talented | 9:10 a.m. April 18, 2008

I didn't watch any of that season, but what I have heard from most of the people that did watch it is that Carmen wasn't as good as some of the other finalists.

PebblesNClay | 9:20 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, honey, don't worry about the negativity of people. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion even when they are wrong. You're a great singer but be glad you didn't win. Hasn't anyone noticed the "winner's jinx"? The only "winner" who has been untouched is Carrie. I'm also a major Clay fan, and I don't think you were disrespectful to him as much as critiquing AI itself. You just used Clay as a comparison. None of us know what went on back stage but the contestants. I do feel and always will feel that they groom the ones they want to win, and focus less on others.They manipulate everyone right down to who sings first and last each week, to who sits where and when on elimination night. Hopefully, as you've said in your book you still consider Clay to be a friend, and one that tried to teach and protect you. If you were anything, you sure looked like you had a crush on Clay. Go forth, accept that you'll be criticized, and learn from it. That's all. Good Luck!

Please... | 9:23 a.m. April 18, 2008

Can't anyone have an opinion that is different from yours, wah? You just wish you could sing.

Heather | 9:27 a.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen and Clay still talk to each other about once a week. There is no bitterness towards Clay when she said that, if anything the bitterness was towards Debra(which I also doubt).

In another article she explained that Idol would come to Clay and tell him that if he wanted to sing a song not on the list, he just needed to ask. Clay shared that info with her and Kim L and told them if they wanted to sing a different song just ask him. Idol does make special time for the favorites, whether the vocal coaching is an example, I don't know. I don't think Carmen meant anything other than just sharing what she knew.

If anything Carmen has been one of the most grateful contestants. She constantly thanks American Idol for what it did for her. She let out a little secret in direct response to a question that was asked. She wasn't getting the attention she needed from Debra and sought it elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that.

If you guys actually knew Carmen you would know she is one of the sweetest people you would ever meet.

Cynthia | 9:47 a.m. April 18, 2008

Hey there, Carmen, I guess if you could handle Simon Cowell in front of millions of viewers, you're up to ruthless bloggers, read by a few. The difference between you and Cowell, and those of us writing here, is that you put yourself out there--full name and contact info. We, on the other hand, spew our criticisms of you and Cowell and each other anonymously. If the news required every blogger's full name and some contact information, most of us would not write (I know I wouldn't), or we would write with more civility and thoughtfulness.

The anonymity is an evil curse of these pages. Without it, we would see some accountability, and these pages would probably begin to have some real value and meaning.

dyc | 9:44 a.m. April 18, 2008

One problem with the written word is that you can't tell the emotions affecting the written word when a person writes an article. The same is often true in emails. I wasn't an AI follower until this year. I didn't see Carmen perform. When I read her article it doesn't sound like sour grapes over losing. To me it just seems like stating the facts.

Unfortunately, when I read comments to her article my perception is there is a lot of anger and hidden agendas among the posters. That is sad.

RonR | 9:49 a.m. April 18, 2008

Wow, some people really misinterpreted Carmen's comments to mean something they were not. What I read was a thoughtful recounting of events from five years ago. No whining - no judgments. It gave me some great insight on the behind-the-scenes workings of AI that could only come from an insider. Thanks Carmen, for sharing your experiences with us!

Shelby | 9:54 a.m. April 18, 2008

I'm sure there are huge discrepancies in the amount and quality of coaching the contestants receive from week to week. Some of that may be based on favoritism by the judges. Some may be due to contestants' questions and requests. It was clear from the short clips of Mariah Carey last week that she was more "into" certain contestants than others, and the way she addressed them and the suggestions she gave were roughly proportional to that.

Is that unfair? I don't think so. The producers, coaches, etc. have no obligation other than to put together the best show they can. If that means showcasing the most popular contestants, you can bet that's what they'll do. This isn't a ward roadshow and there are no guarantees that anyone is going to get equal *anything*.

By the way, Carmen, my kids adopted a pet rat this week and because of her tan color we named her Carmel Ratsmussen.

KartofflMuter | 10:09 a.m. April 18, 2008

I did watch the entire season. Carmen was 16,if I recall,and therefore her inexperience was forgiveable at the time. She was outshown by far by Diana DiGarmo and Parris in subsequent seasons,and of course David Archuleta,in this season, who's sensitivity and style are amazing. But Carmen,it's been 5 years. Now grow up. Time to give up grudges against people who didn't hurt you. I remember all the little rumors surrounding how she was flirting with various contestants, trying to attach herself to them. This spite after 5 years is ridiculous. Clay has a much bigger claim that he was shafted in the final vote,but he went on,accepted 2nd place,and made the best of it. Chris Daughtry and Jennifer Hudson didn't finish too much higher than Carmen and they are where now? Stop whining. If your singing is that great, the few extra lessons can still be taken can't they?

Jim | 10:12 a.m. April 18, 2008

Nobody likes a bad loser Carmen.

Take it on the chin and chalk it up to one of life's experiences.

SLC gal | 10:53 a.m. April 18, 2008

Wow, Carmen, that would have to frustrating feeling like other contestants are somehow "chosen" over others.

Personally I don't think though, where you're voted out counts as much as what you with it afterward. The only AI winners that have really gone on to careers seems to just be Kelly Clarkson, and Carrie Underwood.

Taggart | 10:57 a.m. April 18, 2008

It's the same in any business. The people with the most potential get the most attention. I admit I've done that while coaching youth sports. I'm sure you've seen that in the classroom also. It's okay though, it's just a reality that some people have more natural talent than others. Just be happy and proud that you were able to make it that far with less natural talent. Brooke White is a good example of that also.

Clay Fan All The Way | 11:25 a.m. April 18, 2008

Clay Aiken stated he went on American Idol to learn and do his best and that is what he did. The ones who went there to party and just get on TV were cut. He apparently asked for and received the help.

Agree with Taggart | 11:40 a.m. April 18, 2008

I coach as well and have seen other coaches in action (theater, ski racing, singing) - coaches get excited when they see exceptional talent and they migrate to those people and give them more attention. That's the Darwinian way. But you should be PROUD to have gotten to number 6. That is amazing no matter how you cut it.

I personally wouldn't watch the show if it were not for SIMON!! He's the best. He's honest and right on 97% of the time (even the guest stars have concurred with this).

Although I'm an active LDS leader, the "go Mormons go" chant I see is a little embarassing at times - "we're praying for you" I read on another blog - why not pray for something important? Sure because of our small size we have tribal tendencies, but folks this is a TALENT SHOW - vote for the best voice whether they black, white, gay, fat or gorgeous!

annie | 12:03 p.m. April 18, 2008

The singers who have done best, especially lately, are the ones with the most experience and musical knowledge and/or, they are old enough to have established a personality (Taylor Hick, e.g.) to stick with it and adapt music to it. They probably know how to effectively use a coach as well as to effectively digest and use the judges comments to improve small but important pieces of their performance. Coaching can't make up for musical ignorance - AFTER the audition process. Coaching can also make a performance too mechanical and sound to much like the other performers that had the same coach.

dave hill | 12:30 p.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, pay no or little attention to the ones who have never "put it on the line". It's like the sport fans who criticize the coaches and players put have never been closer to sports than a bad case of athletes feet. You have every right to your opinion just like they do. The big difference is that you "have been there done that". I'm old enough to remember people who didn't think Frank Sinatra or Johnny Mathis could sing worth a lick. And the world is full of those who don't think the Dolly Parton's of the world could carry a tune across the street. It's all about opinion and we all know how different they can be which in the final analysis doesn't mean a whole lot. Hang in there, you have been a wonderful role model and certainly paid some dues.

sugar | 1:06 p.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen, give it up, you had your chance and blew it. Funny thing is that Carrie won even without all the help and she certainly didn't have any taste as far as style went. She won anyway because she is talented, period and you my dear are average so quite crying about it and move on.

One word | 1:58 p.m. April 18, 2008

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Roscoe | 1:55 p.m. April 18, 2008

Dean Kaelin? I went to high school with him.

Sugar, you aren't | 2:13 p.m. April 18, 2008

Honestly, this is the nastiest blog grouping I have ever read. Carmen did not blow it. To even make the top 10 is a great accomplishment. If you people are so against her, why bother to read her column.
BTW, there are not enough Mormons in the entire church to make much of a difference in the voting, so just maybe these kids appeal to others.

Seriously.... | 2:54 p.m. April 18, 2008

What was with the comment about feeling neglected because she was Mormon and from Utah?....When did she say that?? People's post are being completely ridiculous. Carmen was only answering a question with what she knew. Where is the whining? Ridiculous...

Faith | 3:11 p.m. April 18, 2008

Carmen made it to the Top 10 because they wanted a cute blonde on the show. It wasn't because of her talent. She was brought in to perform on Wild Card night when she hadn't even made the finals. Many people think that Simon was forced to choose her and that is why he was in such a foul mood.

It is a Reality Show, they already had the talent, but they needed a few others for eye candy.

Clay may have gotten more time because he was more knowlegable about music and his own abilities and asked more questions.

But life ain't fair and the more talented generally get more attention. Seriously though, Clay was not the chosen one that season.

California | 3:10 p.m. April 18, 2008

This little treatise seems like just one more blatant attempt to drop Aiken's name and get attention. Clay has spoken many times of how hard he worked during the competition - maybe that's why he got the extra attention! Commitment to being great and all....oh yeah, plus he has a voice blessed by the angels!!!

I don't get you and Kim Locke still living in the past and whining. It's getting really old.

Jean | 3:20 p.m. April 18, 2008

Regarding Ruben as 'the chosen one'--I hope when AI has run it's course- SOMEONE from AI will explain why the judges never criticized him. He never was ,and never will be IDOL 'material'. They knew Clay was the winner all the way and they knew it from the first time he opened his mouth. They admitted he received 80 percent of the vote every week. Carmen, Clay probably spent more time with Birdie because he is a perfectionist and wanted to do only his BEST. And he did-every week he was on he was perfection. Clay gave/gives more than 110 percent. You were good...but not great. Same with Ruben and the others. Clay was someone they could never expect on that show-he was/is so different and special. There will never be another Clay.

JJ | 3:38 p.m. April 18, 2008

Oh, please! Many contestants and even a former host have come out to talk about the truth regarding this fake show. You American Idol fans just cannot face the facts that the show is rigged.

MamaLinda | 3:45 p.m. April 18, 2008

Wow, I can't believe some of these comments came from "practicing Mormons" as they say. This is the first I've read of any of this, but I am shocked at the Carmen-bashing. Are any of you good enough to have made it as far as she did? I didn't think so. How about a little of the charity that we each should have and give a young woman a break?

JJ | 3:50 p.m. April 18, 2008

It's been five years and that's why these people are speaking out now. Contracts are up and they can talk freely. Duhhhhh, don't you realize there a "gag" policy and nobody could talk about it until now?

Tara | 3:59 p.m. April 18, 2008

To those that are advising Carmen not to read these comments and to ignore the negative ones - that's ridiculous. When you choose to express your opinion --particularly controversial opinion-- on a forum such as this, you are well aware that the public is going to react.

There are a few reasons I have a hard time taking this column seriously, but it's mainly that Idol has changed greatly in the five years since she was on it. I'm not sure it's right to suggest that all of her experiences still apply...

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