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Child welfare worker describes FLDS ranch as 'scary environment'
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john b | 3:23 p.m. April 17, 2008
i know that i have a problem with spelling but i cant believe the number of
people on here that can only read what they agree with. and if the people there
cant find out how old the children are when yhey have them with them and if the
seventeen and
eighteen yearolds cant glve their age they have aproblem when other groups can tell their ages and
not be with them
i know this cant be printed but i was just to upset not to write john b
eighteen yearolds cant glve their age they have aproblem when other groups can tell their ages and
not be with them
i know this cant be printed but i was just to upset not to write john b
Names? what names? | 3:25 p.m. April 17, 2008
(CBS/AP) Polygamist sect members who were moved to a Texas compound from their
longtime homes along the Utah-Arizona line were hand-picked for their fierce
loyalty to leader Warren Jeffs, and that allegiance may be a stumbling block for
law enforcement, authorities say.
Jeffs, the imprisoned leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, transferred people to Eldorado, Texas, to escape growing government scrutiny on the sect's base in Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said.
"This was Warren Jeffs' all-star cast," said Goddard, who has been investigating the sect since 2004. "They had the strongest sense of obedience."
Jeffs, the imprisoned leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, transferred people to Eldorado, Texas, to escape growing government scrutiny on the sect's base in Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said.
"This was Warren Jeffs' all-star cast," said Goddard, who has been investigating the sect since 2004. "They had the strongest sense of obedience."
Comments continue below
More Tact ? | 3:34 p.m. April 17, 2008
Does Texas think that by taking the children away from their parents and forcing
them out into the "real world" they will suddenly "wake up"
and realize that they have been brainwashed etc. and that really, it's a
better life out here? It seems they could have done this whole thing a little
more tactfully. Are they going to put all the men and women in prison until the
adopted out children are over 18? Because for darn shootin' (that sounds so
Texasey I had to use it) if those parents are like any other true red-blooded
American, they will not stop until they have their children back.
Arizonan for justice | 3:36 p.m. April 17, 2008
Jack fro m Ark is right. Why is she removing children from their mothers
instead of arresting the men who perpetrated all the crimes? In an urban
setting, man commits crime, incl sex abuse, man goes to jail, women keeps kids.
Why is this different? ESPECIALLY SINCE THE PRESS HARPS ON THE FACT THAT GIRLS
ARE MARRIED OFF AT PUBERTY & SO ALL OF THE WOMEN ARE VICTIMS!
Again, I insist this is persecution and a trampling of the separation of Church and State. This is illegal and only the Federal Government can hold the State of Texas accountable. Please flood your representatives' offices with insistance that this be investigated!
Again, I insist this is persecution and a trampling of the separation of Church and State. This is illegal and only the Federal Government can hold the State of Texas accountable. Please flood your representatives' offices with insistance that this be investigated!
Correction | 3:30 p.m. April 17, 2008
"IT'S PERSECUTION AGAINST PEDOPHILES."
errr, it'll be the legitimate prosecution of pedophiles.
BTW, it's perfectly clear, legally, that after entering the ranch, all evidence gathered regarding the endangerment of children is admisable even tho many polygs here would LOVE to see the case thrown out on a technicality REGARDLESS of the evidence. How 'bout them pictures of Jeffs hangin' on the walls in the compound? .. I guess cult members like his hairdo or something and not his command for young girls to submit ... yeah right!
errr, it'll be the legitimate prosecution of pedophiles.
BTW, it's perfectly clear, legally, that after entering the ranch, all evidence gathered regarding the endangerment of children is admisable even tho many polygs here would LOVE to see the case thrown out on a technicality REGARDLESS of the evidence. How 'bout them pictures of Jeffs hangin' on the walls in the compound? .. I guess cult members like his hairdo or something and not his command for young girls to submit ... yeah right!
Anonymous | 3:31 p.m. April 17, 2008
what happened to freedom of relegion we have church of the devil,muslims who
have multiple wife's get treated better then our own people,illegal's
have more rights then citizen.s even a president who pushes everthing is
normal.Texas sucks
SOUL MAN | 3:33 p.m. April 17, 2008
WHAT IS THIS? , ( DONT MESS WITH TEXAS) IT APPEARS YOU CAN DO ANY THING YOU WANT
IN TEXAS,EVEN HAVE A RAID WITH OUT PROOF !!!!! IT APPEARS THERE IS NO JUSTICE
IN TEXAS, DONT GO THERE,ANYWHERE BUT TEXAS, UNLESS YOU ARE A REDNECK!!!!!!
Huh? | 3:36 p.m. April 17, 2008
Polygamists aside...I am horrified by the poor spelling and ignorance of some of
the people posting.
"What?" do you understand what Communism is? You called Judge Walthers a communist. I would like you to explain what that means. There have been several who have posted calling the Texas law enforcment 'communists.'
If you really understood what communism was, you would see that the FLDS are the true communists--that's not always a bad thing, you know, working for the common 'good,' etc.
I'm not saying I agree with the FLDS ways, I don't, not one little bit, but I think people need to be careful to understand the situation before they start throwing about big words.
Let's wait and see--if the judge survives the 500 lawyer onslaught, and how long the lawyers drag this out (keeping the children and parents separated even longer).
"What?" do you understand what Communism is? You called Judge Walthers a communist. I would like you to explain what that means. There have been several who have posted calling the Texas law enforcment 'communists.'
If you really understood what communism was, you would see that the FLDS are the true communists--that's not always a bad thing, you know, working for the common 'good,' etc.
I'm not saying I agree with the FLDS ways, I don't, not one little bit, but I think people need to be careful to understand the situation before they start throwing about big words.
Let's wait and see--if the judge survives the 500 lawyer onslaught, and how long the lawyers drag this out (keeping the children and parents separated even longer).
not a good argument | 3:44 p.m. April 17, 2008
Pretty lame argument Ro:Bot -
Anyway you cut it, it is not acceptable (by mainstream Christian America anyway) for old men to force underage, immature girls into a polygamous marriage.
Can you say SKANKY?
Anyway you cut it, it is not acceptable (by mainstream Christian America anyway) for old men to force underage, immature girls into a polygamous marriage.
Can you say SKANKY?
Matt | 3:37 p.m. April 17, 2008
It must be very frustrating for this judge to have so many lawyers continuing to
insist that that pesky Constitution be followed.
SanAntonio LDS | 3:39 p.m. April 17, 2008
FLDS are very smart people. Very well spoken. I have yet to see any broken bones
or broken spirits from these people. FLDS have my total support. They did not
bear arms against law enforcement. They haven't acted insane (as I would
most likely do if someone stole my children). They are good God fearing people
as we all should be. Looking at all of this, maybe there existence here upon
this earth is a better existence than what ours is. We do have teen age
pregnacy, drug addicted parents, low levels of education, integrity is lost in
society and alot of the people I see on these reality shows have no self worth
(they could cover up more of their skin). You have to ask who is living in the
world and who is living of the world. Heavenly Father is teaching us children
something. We should listen.
To Unibrow Mom | 3:47 p.m. April 17, 2008
I think you got it right. You're right on the money.
Abe | 3:41 p.m. April 17, 2008
Why don't the women speak with any inflection in their voices? Are they on
some kind of drug? They have no passion, no righteous indignation, no fire in
the belly. If you're a mother and your children were taken from you in this
way, and you get a chance to talk to Larry King, would you be so dead-panned?
Observer | 3:44 p.m. April 17, 2008
Re: Small-Minded Athiest Who Thinks All Sympathetic Posters Are Polygamists
You are entitled to your opinions, but they are not fact. It is evidence of your ignorance that you cannot see any kind of greater picture here. This sets up a precident that is far-reaching and is dangerous. The only way to escape the effects of this (if there is no investigation, and no fault is found with the State of Texas) is to declare no religious belief, be apart of no organizations, have no affectionate relationships and foster no children.
If this sticks, any jurisdiction in the nation can create false evidence based on an assumption of what a group (be it a family, religion, club or organization), and as long as it is somewhat similar to what they find after a raid, they can do whatever they want to do to the group to cause them to cease and decist. Imagine if your Union were raided based on falsified violations that turned out to be similar to actual violations and you were arrested because of it? This is absolutely a civil travesty.
You are entitled to your opinions, but they are not fact. It is evidence of your ignorance that you cannot see any kind of greater picture here. This sets up a precident that is far-reaching and is dangerous. The only way to escape the effects of this (if there is no investigation, and no fault is found with the State of Texas) is to declare no religious belief, be apart of no organizations, have no affectionate relationships and foster no children.
If this sticks, any jurisdiction in the nation can create false evidence based on an assumption of what a group (be it a family, religion, club or organization), and as long as it is somewhat similar to what they find after a raid, they can do whatever they want to do to the group to cause them to cease and decist. Imagine if your Union were raided based on falsified violations that turned out to be similar to actual violations and you were arrested because of it? This is absolutely a civil travesty.
Re: Unibrow Mom | 3:46 p.m. April 17, 2008
Unibrow Mom, I saw the video on CNN of the FLDS unibrow mom. It was hilarious. I
got a kick out of the dining room. It was bigger than my entire house! I wonder
if the unibrow is a result of inbreeding?
Jo in Texas | 3:48 p.m. April 17, 2008
The compound founder who is in prison in Arizona, I believe his name is Warren
Jeffs, did force a 14 year old to married a 50 year old who was her cousin.
That is WHY he is prison. That particular sect moved to Eldorado, Texas and set
up shop.
In answer to Waco 2.0, if the Catholic boy or the boy scout revealed the church or scout troup then I believe every child would be interviewed concerning this matter. Every sect in Texas was not "raided" over this incident and there are others here.
Personally I like Interstate 45 over 10, but that is just my preference.
In answer to Waco 2.0, if the Catholic boy or the boy scout revealed the church or scout troup then I believe every child would be interviewed concerning this matter. Every sect in Texas was not "raided" over this incident and there are others here.
Personally I like Interstate 45 over 10, but that is just my preference.
To HD | 3:55 p.m. April 17, 2008
ONly Muslims, Mormons and others only need fear that they're
'next' if they are involved in instances of sexual abuse or in anyway
breaking the law.
Just Facts | 3:51 p.m. April 17, 2008
Consenting or unconsenting sexual contact between an adult male and a minor
child is illegal. If the parents or "spiritual leaders" were
encouraging or fircing such activty, they also committed illegal acts. Parent
who were involved with the activity can and should loose parental
control/responsibility for their minor children.
Child Abuse 101 folks.
Child Abuse 101 folks.
Interesting | 3:52 p.m. April 17, 2008
Where are the 13 year olds being married to 50 year old men? Why does everyone
keep saying that. Where are they getting their information. From people who
haven't been a part of the group for years? We know of one girl that was
14, but only one and far from being married to an old man it was to a man just
turned 19. So far they have presented no actual evidence of 13-16 year olds
being abused or pregnant. Why is that? I thought this hearing was for the
CPS/State to present "actual evidence" that abuse was going on at the
YFZ Ranch.
anon | 3:58 p.m. April 17, 2008
Why are they investigating 18 year olds? They are legal adults.
Rocky | 4:01 p.m. April 17, 2008
So where's the ACLU in all this? Or don't they protect the civil
rights of polygamists?
strange people | 4:02 p.m. April 17, 2008
A "scary environment."
After 25 long years in Utah as a "gentile" (oh how I detest that label) I never felt afraid being around Mormons, but I must admit, to this day there is something about the situation that makes you feel odd. These people may be smiling at you but there always seems to be something they are hiding or keeping secret.
"A peculiar people" is the best way to describe it.
Thanks to Gordon B. Hinckley for that accurate description.
After 25 long years in Utah as a "gentile" (oh how I detest that label) I never felt afraid being around Mormons, but I must admit, to this day there is something about the situation that makes you feel odd. These people may be smiling at you but there always seems to be something they are hiding or keeping secret.
"A peculiar people" is the best way to describe it.
Thanks to Gordon B. Hinckley for that accurate description.
Allz-I-Know | 4:03 p.m. April 17, 2008
The Vause woman who testified that she spoke to the girls (not the boys) in a
school room, and was "intimidated" and "scared" by all the
men standing around.
EEEEK! There were horrible, horrible men on the property! She seemed to get the vapors at the thought that she was forced to breathe the same air as a . . . . oh, the horror . . . A MAN!
EEEEK! There were horrible, horrible men on the property! She seemed to get the vapors at the thought that she was forced to breathe the same air as a . . . . oh, the horror . . . A MAN!
Free? | 4:07 p.m. April 17, 2008
The entire process gone terribly unconstitutional.If you are going to remove
children because of the "potential" for sexual abuse related to where
they live and their beliefs, then consider this fact published by the Deseret
News in Utah in March 2008. One in four Utah girls is sexually abused. One in
Eight Utah boys. So. Do we round up all of the Utah kids and remove them from
their families, order DNA testing (surprise a lot of you are related) confiscate
your cell phones, ship your boys far away from their siblings, ask for
gynecological exams, lock your children in make shift shelters? Of course Utah
would be outraged. This is unbelieveable, and the people of The United States Of
America need to protest this treatment. Return the children to the only homes
they have known. Handle this on a case by case basis as you would in any other
abuse situation. Not a mass roundup. Do not psycologically damage these children
until they will speak whatever they believe will reunite them to the only homes
they have known. Treat them with the same legal process that is independant of
their religion. History, bad history, in the making.
Abe | 4:13 p.m. April 17, 2008
The child welfare worker said "there were men everywhere" when she was
in the compound. Well where are they now? I've only read about one at the
courthouse, and he gave up and went home because the lines were too long. If
these are such strong family units why don't the men show up in large
numbers to support their wives? Wusses.
RE:Interesting | 4:13 p.m. April 17, 2008
All you have to do is go back to Tom Green. He raped his 13-year-old
step-daughter as a 50-something-year old "spiritual husband".
He served time in prison. I think that's pretty conclusive information.
He served time in prison. I think that's pretty conclusive information.
Justin | 4:14 p.m. April 17, 2008
To All Simpletons who put all the children in the same circumstances:
"I wish all of you radical pro-polygamy supporters would please get this through your thick skulls, this is no an atack on polygamy, this is the sexual explotation of teenage girls, plain and simple."
How many of the 416 children are not "teenage girls" and never will be, i.e. boys?
Make no mistake. This was a calculated attack on polygamy. It was well planned with the intent to grab all the children and "save" them from the evil of polygamy.
At the very least Texas officials have manipulated the law. My opinion is that they broke right through the law with their attitude that the end (ridding their State of the evil of polygamy) justified their calous disregard for the rule of law. To you that makes me radical and pro polygamy but your saying so does not make it so. I am neither pro polygamy nor radical but I am pro rule of law.
"I wish all of you radical pro-polygamy supporters would please get this through your thick skulls, this is no an atack on polygamy, this is the sexual explotation of teenage girls, plain and simple."
How many of the 416 children are not "teenage girls" and never will be, i.e. boys?
Make no mistake. This was a calculated attack on polygamy. It was well planned with the intent to grab all the children and "save" them from the evil of polygamy.
At the very least Texas officials have manipulated the law. My opinion is that they broke right through the law with their attitude that the end (ridding their State of the evil of polygamy) justified their calous disregard for the rule of law. To you that makes me radical and pro polygamy but your saying so does not make it so. I am neither pro polygamy nor radical but I am pro rule of law.
Apples Oranges | 4:22 p.m. April 17, 2008
One in Eight Utah boys. So. Do we round up all of the Utah kids and remove them
from their families, order DNA testing (surprise a lot of you are related)
confiscate your cell phones, ship your boys far away from their siblings, ask
for gynecological exams, lock your children in make shift shelters? Of course
Utah would be outraged."
--------------------------------
Kids making bad decisions at random and usually with other kids has NOTHING to do with systematic child rape in the guise of spiritual marriage. Perhaps you haven't heard of Warren Jeffs. I suggest you read about his arrest, conviction and imprisonment and listen to audio clips of his preachings, they're on line. Oh, Uncle Warren, as he is known to the FLDS still leads the group. They still have his picture hanging all over the place at "the compound", after all, he is their prophet and revelator.
--------------------------------
Kids making bad decisions at random and usually with other kids has NOTHING to do with systematic child rape in the guise of spiritual marriage. Perhaps you haven't heard of Warren Jeffs. I suggest you read about his arrest, conviction and imprisonment and listen to audio clips of his preachings, they're on line. Oh, Uncle Warren, as he is known to the FLDS still leads the group. They still have his picture hanging all over the place at "the compound", after all, he is their prophet and revelator.
FREE THESE AMERICAN PEOPLE | 4:20 p.m. April 17, 2008
Do not just presume these people take welfare. They do not. These are an
independant and self sufficient group. They do not use your tax money to educate
their children in public schools, saving you money.
As a by-product of the 50's round up, I can tell you to leave them alone. A mother removed from this order, has a very strong tendency to be submissive and trusting to any man. The result for her children is a far worse life fate than what they are living in as a group. Pedophiles go after just these type of women and their children. In my first hand experience, these people need to be left alone. The "new life" on the outside, will be far worse than what they choose to live now. Unfair, Unconstitutional and now Supreme Court material. If you are going to remove children on the premise of what "might happen" or the potential of "what might happen" then all of Utah's children would be rounded up and caged in makeshift shelters until society finds a way to resolve these issues. Send them home and investigate legally.
As a by-product of the 50's round up, I can tell you to leave them alone. A mother removed from this order, has a very strong tendency to be submissive and trusting to any man. The result for her children is a far worse life fate than what they are living in as a group. Pedophiles go after just these type of women and their children. In my first hand experience, these people need to be left alone. The "new life" on the outside, will be far worse than what they choose to live now. Unfair, Unconstitutional and now Supreme Court material. If you are going to remove children on the premise of what "might happen" or the potential of "what might happen" then all of Utah's children would be rounded up and caged in makeshift shelters until society finds a way to resolve these issues. Send them home and investigate legally.
Yup | 4:20 p.m. April 17, 2008
No:
The ACLU does not support any type of Mormon.. or Fundamentalist.
This is all about Religion and the Right to practice it.
oh, and the money and publicity.
The ACLU does not support any type of Mormon.. or Fundamentalist.
This is all about Religion and the Right to practice it.
oh, and the money and publicity.
Rule of law? | 4:27 p.m. April 17, 2008
"My opinion is that they broke right through the law with their attitude
that the end (ridding their State of the evil of polygamy) justified their
calous disregard for the rule of law."
base on what? ... please AT least read up on the law with regard to child endangerment. these cultist have already been given leeway. i promise you, play game with the authorities about whose who's parent and child names and it's all she wrote in the context of forces underage sex. The law with regard to child endangerment is NOT the same ...
base on what? ... please AT least read up on the law with regard to child endangerment. these cultist have already been given leeway. i promise you, play game with the authorities about whose who's parent and child names and it's all she wrote in the context of forces underage sex. The law with regard to child endangerment is NOT the same ...
Proud of Texas | 4:27 p.m. April 17, 2008
Reading these comments it seems most accept that it's OK to molest children
in the name of some made up religion. Interesting.
Do you people realize how many middle aged men are now doing 10 to 20 in the Texas Department of Corrections for having pornographic underage children's photos on their computers?
Those who should be worried are the pervs back at the ranch. If they are found to have molested these children (And the state will find out), they are all looking at life without parole.
Do you people realize how many middle aged men are now doing 10 to 20 in the Texas Department of Corrections for having pornographic underage children's photos on their computers?
Those who should be worried are the pervs back at the ranch. If they are found to have molested these children (And the state will find out), they are all looking at life without parole.
Eviction notice | 4:33 p.m. April 17, 2008
While Texas is busy doing whatever it takes to evict the FLDS from Texas for
reasons based primarily on differing theology using unlawfulness as the main
vehicle, they are ignoring other groups who violate women's and
childrens' rights. Since it is all about religion, they will continue to
ignore other people/groups who traffic underage sex. Ever heard of the Rainbow
Family commune? Lots of adult men having hippie-free sex with underage teens.
Is there a Rainbow Family in Texas somewhere? If so, they better claim athiesm
or mainstream Protestant Christianity or they're next!
wes | 4:28 p.m. April 17, 2008
This is NOT the largest child custody hearing- the next one is!
Is this truley the way this should have been handled? Should they have pulled another raid plan from the shelf?
Is this truley the way this should have been handled? Should they have pulled another raid plan from the shelf?
Hugh McBryde | 4:29 p.m. April 17, 2008
Everywhere there men. Threatening. Intimidating. OH GIVE ME A BREAK, the
Ranch was surrounded by armed men, invaded by armed men, all backing up this
woman, not attacking her.
Anonymous | 4:40 p.m. April 17, 2008
I can't tell you how much compassion I have for the sick FLDS elders who
think it normal to have sex with underage girls and for the just as sick LDS
elders who support this sick practice.
Men | 4:46 p.m. April 17, 2008
Why didn't they remove the men instead of the women and children- issue
protective orders and station officers at the ranch and not allow the men in-
seems all backwards to me. let the women and children have the property- and to
the men that fathered children w/teen brides- WAKE UP, WAKE UP! In civilized
societies- raping a child doesn't get you in to heaven.
its_Chet | 4:53 p.m. April 17, 2008
I have yet to hear anyone justify the kidnapping of all 416 children on the
basis of an accusation against one man. Are we supposed to believe that all 416
children were his? Why not arrest the man (oh heck, just for
argument�s sake, let�s say men), and
leave the families as intact as possible?
I�ll tell you why, because CPS, DFPS, or whatever you want to call it, is a big government agency run amok. Since when does the government know what�s best for anybody? The government is the problem, not the solution. And this particular piece of it is filled with an above average concentration of megalomaniacs. Your children are theirs, in their eyes.
My son was screaming and throwing a fit in a store because he didn�t get a toy. A nosey woman told my wife that she was emotionally abusing him and threatened to call the police. A friend of ours was actually arrested for pretty much the same thing. This government organization has no interest in not disturbing families. Its whole purpose is to step in and take kids away whenever they perceive abuse. Their judgment is woefully inadequate, and yet they wield terrible power.
I�ll tell you why, because CPS, DFPS, or whatever you want to call it, is a big government agency run amok. Since when does the government know what�s best for anybody? The government is the problem, not the solution. And this particular piece of it is filled with an above average concentration of megalomaniacs. Your children are theirs, in their eyes.
My son was screaming and throwing a fit in a store because he didn�t get a toy. A nosey woman told my wife that she was emotionally abusing him and threatened to call the police. A friend of ours was actually arrested for pretty much the same thing. This government organization has no interest in not disturbing families. Its whole purpose is to step in and take kids away whenever they perceive abuse. Their judgment is woefully inadequate, and yet they wield terrible power.
JT | 4:52 p.m. April 17, 2008
Texas is overcompensating. They wanted to prevent another Waco. Still
can't believe Janet Reno got away with that one.
Pope VS FLDS | 4:53 p.m. April 17, 2008
We have been outraged by the priests in the Catholic church who molested young
boys for many years. Today the Pope spoke out against their actions and I
really respect him for that. The Catholic church has suffered from these
incidents, because child sexual abuse in the name of religion is wrong. The
FLDS are wrong to permit young girls to have these "spiritual"
marriages, boy I would hate to see what they define and carnal and devilish? I
lived in Southern Utah for eight years, the FLDS church was left alone and there
was a level of co-existence when they would come to town. No one had issues
with them except when the welfare system was abused. As for child brides, it
has probably been going on in many groups for years, but finally some of these
girls are able to get help from outside, look at the Kingston's. If they
want to live in their own world and practice plural marriage, so be it, but if
they break the law and permit and molest young girls, zero tolerance. I hope
that the pattern will stop and that they will obey the laws of the land.
Digusting Cowards! | 5:04 p.m. April 17, 2008
I hope the authorities clean out these polygamy cults.
Save the kids at least!
The FLDS polygamist men our BIG cowards!
Save the kids at least!
The FLDS polygamist men our BIG cowards!
Anonymous | 5:06 p.m. April 17, 2008
Is there anything written down by Joseph Smith (commandments or something)
authorizing old men to have sexual relations with underage girls?
Re: Anonymous | 5:15 p.m. April 17, 2008
No.
Joseph Smith never wrote anything about authorizing men to marry or otherwise have sexual encounters with underage girls.
He did, however, write quite a lot about moral integrity, etc., which would actually counsel a person not do that.
Joseph Smith never wrote anything about authorizing men to marry or otherwise have sexual encounters with underage girls.
He did, however, write quite a lot about moral integrity, etc., which would actually counsel a person not do that.
RE: strange people | 4:02 pm | 5:18 p.m. April 17, 2008
" "A peculiar people" is the best way to describe it. "
thanks;
the description comes from Paul in the New Testament.
thanks;
the description comes from Paul in the New Testament.
Schizophrenia | 5:30 p.m. April 17, 2008
I'm not falling for the whole Joseph Smith having revelation on polygamy. I
think he was seized upon by the Devil and then lost consciousness, and when he
awoke from his infatuation and dream, then suddenly polygamy was put forth in
his delusional mind. No doubt in my mind, he was nothing but a schizophrenic.
Utahn | 5:31 p.m. April 17, 2008
Its kind of amazing to see so many shocked at a state taking action that should
have happened - but didnt - long ago.
The FLDS gambled on Texas and when I heard thats was their choice to move the first thing I thought was "MISTAKE"...!
But thats what happens when you live in a closed society - you step in manure when you mix with the regular cattle.
The FLDS gambled on Texas and when I heard thats was their choice to move the first thing I thought was "MISTAKE"...!
But thats what happens when you live in a closed society - you step in manure when you mix with the regular cattle.
FLDS = Anti-Christ | 5:28 p.m. April 17, 2008
I being LDS cannot understand how these people think they are a true religion or
ESPECIALLY how they think that they come from the roots Joseph Smith planted.
In an LDS church you don't find men on every corner forcing women and children to stay inside and worship.(let alone the sexual abuse going on) If they destroy agency how do they claim to believe in Joseph Smith and his teachings? There is no sense in it.
A scripture from the D&C which were recorded by Joseph Smith, thus they should be following it...right? This scripture is instant gratification of a key difference between the LDS church and this FLDS organization of secrecy.
D&C 29:35
"Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual."
These children have been robbed of agency. Everything "spiritual" they were taught was by force. The so-called marriages were sensual and illegal. Their actions ARE ONLY carnal and sensual. ANY Unwanted sex IS RAPE!!
How do they claim to be true followers of J.S.?
In an LDS church you don't find men on every corner forcing women and children to stay inside and worship.(let alone the sexual abuse going on) If they destroy agency how do they claim to believe in Joseph Smith and his teachings? There is no sense in it.
A scripture from the D&C which were recorded by Joseph Smith, thus they should be following it...right? This scripture is instant gratification of a key difference between the LDS church and this FLDS organization of secrecy.
D&C 29:35
"Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual."
These children have been robbed of agency. Everything "spiritual" they were taught was by force. The so-called marriages were sensual and illegal. Their actions ARE ONLY carnal and sensual. ANY Unwanted sex IS RAPE!!
How do they claim to be true followers of J.S.?
Tiger | 5:34 p.m. April 17, 2008
Thanks for Joseph Smith the "glass looker" for creating such a mess!
RE: Unibrow woman | 5:42 p.m. April 17, 2008
I too saw the unibrow woman and she seemed pretty zoned out to me as did some of
the others.
I have two kids of my own and I have thought about this a lot recently. I would hope that if I were that brainwashed to allow my kids to be subjected to unconsensual sex with older men, and to be breaking child labor laws, that someone WOULD intervene and try to help my kids. These women ARE NOT LOVING mothers.
They are mothers who "pimp" out their kids. I am a Texan and very proud of it. I would suggest that anyone who feels like they have the perfect solution to this mess, to haul their brilliant selves down here and fix it! I am trying to be nice here, but it is becoming very hard to do. I would have rather worded that a little better, but I think most of you get my drift.
I have two kids of my own and I have thought about this a lot recently. I would hope that if I were that brainwashed to allow my kids to be subjected to unconsensual sex with older men, and to be breaking child labor laws, that someone WOULD intervene and try to help my kids. These women ARE NOT LOVING mothers.
They are mothers who "pimp" out their kids. I am a Texan and very proud of it. I would suggest that anyone who feels like they have the perfect solution to this mess, to haul their brilliant selves down here and fix it! I am trying to be nice here, but it is becoming very hard to do. I would have rather worded that a little better, but I think most of you get my drift.
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It's amazing to me to see how people become sheeple and just accept what they hear form the media without demanding proof. It's been two weeks now and Texas hasn't produced the 16 year old victim which should have been done BEFORE any warrant of any kind was ever issued. This is a clear case of making a huge blunder and then looking under every rug to try and find something to justify the blunder. What about due process? Where are the patriots? Where are the champions of liberty? Where are the Sons and Daughters of GOD who stand for truth and except nothing less? This is an outrage and blatant violation of constitutional, personal, and civil rights!! Let the children go home and deal with abuse on a case by case basis!