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Child welfare worker describes FLDS ranch as 'scary environment'
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Tom | 1:17 p.m. April 17, 2008
My family is of a different faith, but my 12 year old son, who watches the news,
is wondering how police with guns can just come and take kids away for not much
of an obvious reason. He asks, "dad, what would you do if police tried to
take me away? Should I try to hide?" I answer that our family is not
engaged in activities which are illegal, and so it is not likely to happen.
Still, it is a frightening proposition to consider from a parent's point of
view. Although we are supposed to trust the people who make the laws, there are
examples every day in the news about lawmakers and public figures who misbehave
in ways that hurt regular people.
re: re: snickerdoodle | 1:16 p.m. April 17, 2008
I checked over my post 4 times. I'm dead sure there isn't one typo .
. .
Curious | 1:18 p.m. April 17, 2008
Texas has never been very tolerant of sects. Why after Waco and the Branch
Davidian fiasco (or tragedy if that's your perspective), did FLDS in 2003
decide to move to San Angelo? What were they thinking?
Right or wrong, this kind of intervention was bound to happen.
Right or wrong, this kind of intervention was bound to happen.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 1:17 p.m. April 17, 2008
Dear What?
The only folks living in communes were your friends, the pedophilic collectivists. Truth will win out.
What? | 12:41 p.m. Apr. 17, 2008
Judge Walther is a Texas Communist period and end of story.
The only folks living in communes were your friends, the pedophilic collectivists. Truth will win out.
What? | 12:41 p.m. Apr. 17, 2008
Judge Walther is a Texas Communist period and end of story.
wes | 1:14 p.m. April 17, 2008
To the ones claiming these children deserve an education. They are or were
homeschooled useing Texas approved curriculum and probably would out perform
most kids their age in public schools.
The prejudice that surronds this case is astounding. The CPS made sensational claims and accusations about these people as they went in to enrage te American people. Many still cling to that even though most of the claims have been proven wrong.
The prejudice that surronds this case is astounding. The CPS made sensational claims and accusations about these people as they went in to enrage te American people. Many still cling to that even though most of the claims have been proven wrong.
Pass Judgement | 1:14 p.m. April 17, 2008
The Judge said she was not passing judgement on anyones religion. She already
did a few weeks ago. When she approved the taking of every single child
regardless of age and gender she approved a fishing expedition. She and CPS
were passing judgement on an entire community and lifestyle one in which is
primarily religious in nature. She stepped in IT royally and will come to
regret it for years to come. If she had limited the scope of the search and
seizure to the specific allegations she had a chance but what usually happens is
a snowball affect and few people have the ability to back up and take corrective
action to undue the excessive and broad use of power.
Child Abuse? | 1:23 p.m. April 17, 2008
So far there is NO evidence of abused children, at least not by the FLDS. I
deffinately see child abuse from the texas totalitarian government. And why
call this group poligamyst's. All they are only commiting adultry
according to US Law.
Kandi | 1:17 p.m. April 17, 2008
As the daughter of a woman who joined a polygamist cult, I can only applaud the
actions of the State of Texas in removing these children from abusive
situations. It was reported that there were several young teenage girls removed
who were pregnant. Physical, emotional, and sexual abuse is all too common in
polygamist groups, particularly the ones who cut themselves off from society. I
have yet to see a group that isn't guilty of this. The secretive nature of
the cults is what keeps the abuses hidden for so long. When you are told that
you will be damned for eternity if you don't keep your mouth shut and do
what you're told, then allegations of abuse are long in coming to light.
I sincerely hope that these kids will be saved from the abuse and be able to salvage their lives in a healthier environment--one that doesn't require girls to marry older men, then perhaps pass them off to new 'husbands' if their first is not deemed 'worthy' enough...one that doesn't cast off young boys because they are seen as competition for the women.
BTW-what is happening today is a HEARING, not a TRIAL!!! Trials come AFTER hearings.
I sincerely hope that these kids will be saved from the abuse and be able to salvage their lives in a healthier environment--one that doesn't require girls to marry older men, then perhaps pass them off to new 'husbands' if their first is not deemed 'worthy' enough...one that doesn't cast off young boys because they are seen as competition for the women.
BTW-what is happening today is a HEARING, not a TRIAL!!! Trials come AFTER hearings.
Craig | 1:24 p.m. April 17, 2008
Yes there is some irony that San Angelo, TX is in Tom Green County. Tom Green
was convicted of child rape in the state of Utah in 2001. After serving a six
year prison term he was released in 2007. The rape charge stemmed from his
polygamous marriage to a 13-year old girl who now is his legal wife. Tom Green
County is named for a different person of course. Of note, the prosecution of
Tom Green was carried out by Juab County Attorney David Leavitt, who is a
candidate for the 3rd district Congressional seat currently held by Chris
Cannon.
wes | 1:18 p.m. April 17, 2008
The reason they keep saying this case in unprcidented is that it will give them
more leeway to bend if not defy the law. This is a normal child protection
hearing. The record for the amount of kids involved-as of now, but with this one
under their belt, there will be more.
Re: Great | 1:21 p.m. April 17, 2008
Wer u edjucated at YFZ Ranch? u gots Great inglersh.
I agree, we should allow people to do anything they want. Live and let live. As long as you call it a religious belief, you're not really hurting anyone else.
Child rape disquised as "spiritual" marriage - no problem.
Incest disguised as loving family relations - no problem.
Human sacrifice disguised as demon purging - no problem.
Slavery disguised as devotion to a spiritual master - no problem.
If you define the belief correctly, you can justify ANY human behavior as a religious belief.
I agree, we should allow people to do anything they want. Live and let live. As long as you call it a religious belief, you're not really hurting anyone else.
Child rape disquised as "spiritual" marriage - no problem.
Incest disguised as loving family relations - no problem.
Human sacrifice disguised as demon purging - no problem.
Slavery disguised as devotion to a spiritual master - no problem.
If you define the belief correctly, you can justify ANY human behavior as a religious belief.
Confused | 1:21 p.m. April 17, 2008
We know of one case where the 22 year old Mother had her ID taken from here and
told it was a fake, and she was 14 or 16, hmmm, there Fake victim still not
found, the accused Man proven to be out of state, how much more Phony evidence
is needed to completly destroy any credibility in the state?
and is it work Walking on AMericans Rights in the first Place? if Texas would have done a Leagal Investigation in the first place, who knows they may have Cought a criminal, now all they have done is Cought them selfs. How hard is it to Obey the Constitution when you Investigate?
and is it work Walking on AMericans Rights in the first Place? if Texas would have done a Leagal Investigation in the first place, who knows they may have Cought a criminal, now all they have done is Cought them selfs. How hard is it to Obey the Constitution when you Investigate?
RE: Just Coincidence | 1:22 p.m. April 17, 2008
Utah's infamous Tom Green was paroled from prison, and is back in western
Juab County with his wives.
wes | 1:22 p.m. April 17, 2008
If people think that these children have had no say in their home, do they
honestly think they will have their say with the CPS??? Do you have any idea how
these people operate??? How about all the ones so far that were told they were
lying about their age? They even reported to the judge they don't believe
them-with no evidence to the contrary.
Phil | 1:26 p.m. April 17, 2008
I am waiting for Nancy Grace to claim that they found 7 and 8 years olds
pregnant including the males. I love to hear her go off about 13 and 14 years
olds who are pregnant. But wait, the state of Texas could only find 17 and 18
years pregnant, opps.
wes | 1:33 p.m. April 17, 2008
Trial By Jury!!!!!!
Hate to say it, but when it comes to children there is no Constitution. The CPS are the Gods and there are no parental rights, period. Most people have no idea the difference between a right and a privilage, no matter what it is called.
Hate to say it, but when it comes to children there is no Constitution. The CPS are the Gods and there are no parental rights, period. Most people have no idea the difference between a right and a privilage, no matter what it is called.
Re: jc | 1:38 p.m. April 17, 2008
I'm sure authorities are smart enough to figure out when a child is old
enough to know their own name.
I have a 3 y/o grandson who has no problem giving his full name and the full names of both of his parents. His brother, who is only 18 months, can't talk, but he can sign his name.
Unless they are handicapped, any child old enough to speak is old enough to know their own name.
If the kids are giving false names or keep changing their names, it's because they've be coached to be evasive.
I have a 3 y/o grandson who has no problem giving his full name and the full names of both of his parents. His brother, who is only 18 months, can't talk, but he can sign his name.
Unless they are handicapped, any child old enough to speak is old enough to know their own name.
If the kids are giving false names or keep changing their names, it's because they've be coached to be evasive.
Cultural relativism | 1:39 p.m. April 17, 2008
Cultural relativism at its finished, mocking the women because they don't
pluck their eyebrows.
Unknown | 1:46 p.m. April 17, 2008
it is amazing to see everyone jumping the gun with outrageous opinions. If a 16
yr old girl was pregnant and abused, and informant inside the FLDS compound has
been confirmong this for years, shouldn't something be done. Imagine your
fourteen year old sister, cousin, friend being violated by your father
grandfather etc... that is cause for an investigation.
Allz-I-know | 1:51 p.m. April 17, 2008
I noticed that some of the most important evidence was documents seized from an
office safe. It has been said that these are ecclesiastical records
(bishop's records) that may be protected.
I doubt very much that any person or organization deliberately abusing children would keep detailed records. The records may be records of marriages, which is not illegal for individuals 16 years of age or older.
The judge has a good reputation amongst the locals, if you can take what her friends say. (see the article in the newspaper formally known as The Deseret Morning News).
The only thing that can be done is rely on the system, and hope that the right decisions will be made. You may not like the system, but it is the only option.
I doubt very much that any person or organization deliberately abusing children would keep detailed records. The records may be records of marriages, which is not illegal for individuals 16 years of age or older.
The judge has a good reputation amongst the locals, if you can take what her friends say. (see the article in the newspaper formally known as The Deseret Morning News).
The only thing that can be done is rely on the system, and hope that the right decisions will be made. You may not like the system, but it is the only option.
Jack from Ark | 1:52 p.m. April 17, 2008
Am I missing something or did we lose the "Innocent until proven
guilty" and "beyond a reasonable doubt" aspect of our
constitutional rights.This is being treated like a civil action where a
preponderance of evidence works. If these men committed sexual assault then
arrest them, try them, and put them in jail. This is a travesty of justice and
needs to be dealt with by the US AG's office for total loss of civil
rights. Caused by this maverick judge. It is obvious by her actions in court
that she has risen beyond her level of competency. She like most local judges is
a legend in her own mind and rules her courtroom as a queen would rule her
country. She is an idiot and needs to be removed from her position and replaced
by a judge that has some respect for the law.
Just one Thing | 1:54 p.m. April 17, 2008
I don't condone the FLDS lifestyle but if you take my kids from me as their
father with no reason you'll have one heck of a fight on your hands. Not
everyone is abused here, not everyone is guilty. Everyone is innocent unless
proved guilty. Everyone is entitled to their day in court. Constitutional
rights are being trampled here. See you in court Texas. Just one fathers
opinion.
Genicide | 1:49 p.m. April 17, 2008
Its Genicide. Look it up. Call the U.N.
Jo | 1:51 p.m. April 17, 2008
The founder of this group is in an Arizona prison conviced of child molestation.
I don't think that speaks too highly of this group.
Ironic... | 2:10 p.m. April 17, 2008
What's ironic about this is that the hearing for these 416 kids is being
held in the Tom Green County Courthouse...
You may recall that there is a polygamist in Utah named Tom Green that went to jail a few years back.
You may recall that there is a polygamist in Utah named Tom Green that went to jail a few years back.
got conned | 2:11 p.m. April 17, 2008
The only way these women could have possibly be conned into this sordid
lifestyle is that somebody told them that God commanded it.
What a crock!
What a crock!
Child Brides | 2:16 p.m. April 17, 2008
I know we'll never get an honest response, but it would be interesting to
know how many of the obvious FLDS men who have been blogging here actually have
underage "spiritual" brides.
Mark Hansen | 2:21 p.m. April 17, 2008
The kids were hauled off in buses owned by the local Baptist Church. How many
16 and 17 year old Baptist girls in the area are pregnant, or not virgins? If
there are even a handful, doesn't the Equal Protection Clause require Texas
to remove all Baptist kids in the area from their parents, too?
Looks to me that the claimed "abuse" is a religion where arranged marriages are the norm. If the members believe in it, and do it voluntarily, what's really so bad about that? Many cultures practice arranged marriages, and their kids do just fine.
Can mainstream society honestly say that their method of finding a mate through dating, pickups in bars, premarital sex, etc., with STDs running rampand, and half of all such marriages ending in divorce, is better?
And second hand smoke can cause cancer, and exposing a child to a risk of cancer is abusive, so to be fair, Texas should take every child of every smoker and put them in the foster system too.
Looks to me that the claimed "abuse" is a religion where arranged marriages are the norm. If the members believe in it, and do it voluntarily, what's really so bad about that? Many cultures practice arranged marriages, and their kids do just fine.
Can mainstream society honestly say that their method of finding a mate through dating, pickups in bars, premarital sex, etc., with STDs running rampand, and half of all such marriages ending in divorce, is better?
And second hand smoke can cause cancer, and exposing a child to a risk of cancer is abusive, so to be fair, Texas should take every child of every smoker and put them in the foster system too.
Mink | 2:17 p.m. April 17, 2008
I've been following the blow-by-blow for the case at the San Angelo
paper's website. What a fiasco! It's obvious that no one's had
adequate time to prepare. A DPS trooper was reading from a "Bishop's
Record" that lists a 46-year-old husband with a 19-year-old wife and
children ages 2-19. This is what DPS is basing their case on??? I don't
know the purpose of this "Bishop's Record", but obviously it
isn't strictly showing biological parentage.
It took so long (understandably) for Texas to round up all these lawyers and get them to the venue. They all seem so ill-prepared for this. I don't see how Judge Walther can make any fair rulings today about the long-term fate of these children. I hope she only makes temporary custody decisions today.
It took so long (understandably) for Texas to round up all these lawyers and get them to the venue. They all seem so ill-prepared for this. I don't see how Judge Walther can make any fair rulings today about the long-term fate of these children. I hope she only makes temporary custody decisions today.
Sokol | 2:18 p.m. April 17, 2008
Why is it naturally assumed that father's do not care about their children?
This is gender bias at its finest. The nation will finally see the
unjustness,
unconstitutionality of CPS tactics and child custody laws, interference into the rights of parents, and the general denial of due process by the courts.
unconstitutionality of CPS tactics and child custody laws, interference into the rights of parents, and the general denial of due process by the courts.
Arizonan for justice | 2:22 p.m. April 17, 2008
Alleged: pregnant 16 yr old (has broken/healed rib, 1 kid, 1 on the way) uses
cell phone to call 911, then shelter, claims husband rapes/abuses her. Also,
all 416 minors at ranch are in danger of multiple forms of abuse.
Fact: "Sarah" can't be found & her "husband" has been in custody or under surveillance for over a year 700 miles away. Seems pretty easy to find someone with a healed rib (x-rays anyone?) Also, the girls being wed are all LESS THAN 14, so is she a spinster? Why wait to be married? Also, FLDS most likely mirror LDS in that family is crucial, abuse is inexcusable.
Most likely scenario: Texans fear FLDS, have hatred for assumed faux-Christianity, plot to evict FLDS from state. Create fictitous girl & phone calls, change story as holes become apparant, offer no evidence. Girl is not representative of actual new-bride population, but is BARELY below lawful tolerance, fits "outsider's" assumtions of what is going on. Entire fiasco based on fraud.
Fact: "Sarah" can't be found & her "husband" has been in custody or under surveillance for over a year 700 miles away. Seems pretty easy to find someone with a healed rib (x-rays anyone?) Also, the girls being wed are all LESS THAN 14, so is she a spinster? Why wait to be married? Also, FLDS most likely mirror LDS in that family is crucial, abuse is inexcusable.
Most likely scenario: Texans fear FLDS, have hatred for assumed faux-Christianity, plot to evict FLDS from state. Create fictitous girl & phone calls, change story as holes become apparant, offer no evidence. Girl is not representative of actual new-bride population, but is BARELY below lawful tolerance, fits "outsider's" assumtions of what is going on. Entire fiasco based on fraud.
Jo in Texas | 2:23 p.m. April 17, 2008
The police just don't want another Kool-Aid compound or Waco (which was a
disaster) incident.
They don't know who the children belong to. Everytime they ask the children or the mothers they get a different answer and there are no records (birth or otherwise) to tell them who the mother is.
All the mothers have to do is be honest. So far all I have seen is a Stepford Wife reaction to every question. Six of them were on television yesterday and would not answer very simple questions. They could not comprehend the questions. If it was my child, by golly I would answer the questions and get my child back.
They don't know who the children belong to. Everytime they ask the children or the mothers they get a different answer and there are no records (birth or otherwise) to tell them who the mother is.
All the mothers have to do is be honest. So far all I have seen is a Stepford Wife reaction to every question. Six of them were on television yesterday and would not answer very simple questions. They could not comprehend the questions. If it was my child, by golly I would answer the questions and get my child back.
WAKE UP!! | 2:27 p.m. April 17, 2008
of course the FLDS people will say there is no abuse going on. Those who abuse
say they are doing nothing wrong because they love their children.
I have nothing against polygamy but I am disgusted about the young girls are married off at such a young age to these old men. (shudder) And this is done all in the name of religion.
It is sad that so many children had to be taken but dealing with one at a time would merely give those left behind the brainwashing that has already occured with the women who have appeared on TV.
And if Texas only finds ONE child that has been sexually abused....she was 'married' and/or gave birth 16yr or younger...then I'm sorry, but as a mother and one who has been abused, I say WELL DONE TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!
I have nothing against polygamy but I am disgusted about the young girls are married off at such a young age to these old men. (shudder) And this is done all in the name of religion.
It is sad that so many children had to be taken but dealing with one at a time would merely give those left behind the brainwashing that has already occured with the women who have appeared on TV.
And if Texas only finds ONE child that has been sexually abused....she was 'married' and/or gave birth 16yr or younger...then I'm sorry, but as a mother and one who has been abused, I say WELL DONE TEXAS!!!!!!!!!!!
Bot | 2:27 p.m. April 17, 2008
I haven't met anyone in favor of 14-year-olds being impregnated by older
men. But when are the Texas Rangers going to raid the Dallas inner-city homes
of pregnant 14-year-olds and cart off the other children, who might be subject
to similar abuse? And when will they shutter the Planned Parenthood locations
which refuse to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties?
Why isn't there equal treatment under Texas' law? Sounds like
religious persecution to me.
Furthermore, the local Texas Senator sponsored the bill to raise the minimum marriage age from 14 to 16, specifically to harass the FLDS sufficiently that they would leave his county.
Furthermore, the local Texas Senator sponsored the bill to raise the minimum marriage age from 14 to 16, specifically to harass the FLDS sufficiently that they would leave his county.
Re: Jack from Ark | 2:33 p.m. April 17, 2008
Yeah, you missed something. This is a hearing, not a trial.
Even when it gets to the trial stage, all that the state has to do to retain custody of the kids is to prove through a preponderance of the evidence that children were being abused.
Even when it gets to the trial stage, all that the state has to do to retain custody of the kids is to prove through a preponderance of the evidence that children were being abused.
Arizonan for justice | 2:32 p.m. April 17, 2008
While polygamy, incest & underage marriage are all heinous and criminal, and
that anyone involved do need to be tried as appropriate, using false means to
bring this to pass is true injustice. It is fraud & deceit on the part of
Texas & the state needs to be held accountable. This could set very
frightning precident (what if Texans decide to exile LDS from their state, they
are at this point able to falsify claims & reports, search private property
including raiding the temples within the state and churches and residences in
order to pressure an exodus.) This could also apply to anyone they consider a
threat (Muslims accused of training terrorists in a mosque, Jehovah's
Witnesses & their curious windowless meetinghouses, scientologists, etc.)
So, please, Utahans, do as I have done, contact your Federal Congressional representatives and demand a Congressional inquiry of possible fraud & prejudice conducted by the State of Texas. This is crucial to preserve religious freedom in our great nation!
So, please, Utahans, do as I have done, contact your Federal Congressional representatives and demand a Congressional inquiry of possible fraud & prejudice conducted by the State of Texas. This is crucial to preserve religious freedom in our great nation!
Mark Hansen | 2:33 p.m. April 17, 2008
Followup re genocide:
The U.N. Convention on Genocide, a treaty ratified by Congress, is the law of the United States as well as international law. Genocide includes
"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a ... religious group, as such:
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Besides ratifying the treaty, Congress has codified it at 18 U.S.C. � 1091, making a violation punishable by a $1 million dollar fine and 20 years imprisonment in a federal penitentiary.
That's exactly what Texas is doing to the FLDS.
I think the United States attorney general should begin a federal prosecution of every Texas law enforcement officer and CPS worker involved in the FLDS raid, for the crime of genocide.
The U.N. Convention on Genocide, a treaty ratified by Congress, is the law of the United States as well as international law. Genocide includes
"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a ... religious group, as such:
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Besides ratifying the treaty, Congress has codified it at 18 U.S.C. � 1091, making a violation punishable by a $1 million dollar fine and 20 years imprisonment in a federal penitentiary.
That's exactly what Texas is doing to the FLDS.
I think the United States attorney general should begin a federal prosecution of every Texas law enforcement officer and CPS worker involved in the FLDS raid, for the crime of genocide.
Re: Sokol | 2:38 p.m. April 17, 2008
You have way too much time on your hands...get off the soap box and quit crying
foul!!
comment | 2:51 p.m. April 17, 2008
So the judge is planning on ordering DNA tests for everyone to figure out
parentage. All of you who have been doubting and ranting about how terrible a
tragedy this was, when we see the complete family tree of everyone living at the
ranch, I am sure it will reveal everything, I am not even going to call them
marriages anymore, it will reveal that underage girls had (I wont even say
forced for argument sake)sex with older men, many of whom where blood related to
each other. That is sick and disgusting. Everyone who has opposed what Texas did
should be ashamed of them selves.
I believe there is a chance for some kind of rehabilitation for this group, they should be able to live thier lives and practice thier religion under the close scrutiny of CPS and law enforcement.
I believe there is a chance for some kind of rehabilitation for this group, they should be able to live thier lives and practice thier religion under the close scrutiny of CPS and law enforcement.
Jo in Texas | 2:53 p.m. April 17, 2008
When they first went into the compound the police said they found girls as young
as 14 that were pregnant and children were taking care of other children. If
that is not child abuse then I don't know what is.
To Bot... | 2:47 p.m. April 17, 2008
Are you serious??? You think they raised the min marriage age from 14 to 16 just
to harass the FLDS???? You don't think it had ANYTHING to do with the fact
that 14yr olds getting married is just sick and WRONG???????????
HD | 2:53 p.m. April 17, 2008
Total breach of Habeas Corpus. Muslims, Scientologists, and Mormons of Texas,
watch out. You're next.
Waco 2.0 | 2:59 p.m. April 17, 2008
When are you going to start coverage of Waco 2.0?
It is a travesty what�s happening to those 416 kids being separated from their families.
If a Catholic alter boy called in anonymously about a molestation, would Texas start rounding up all the alter boys in Texas?
If a Boy Scout called in an anonymous charge of molestation would the state of Texas start rounding up all Boy Scouts?
The best thing that ever came out of Texas is Interstate 10
It is a travesty what�s happening to those 416 kids being separated from their families.
If a Catholic alter boy called in anonymously about a molestation, would Texas start rounding up all the alter boys in Texas?
If a Boy Scout called in an anonymous charge of molestation would the state of Texas start rounding up all Boy Scouts?
The best thing that ever came out of Texas is Interstate 10
Re: Bot | 3:00 p.m. April 17, 2008
Gee...I think you have a valid argument against the Texas Senator. 50 year old
men should be able to legally marry a 14 yr. old. That sounds perfectly
legitimate to me?
As if changing the law from 14 to 16 made any differance whatsoever at all. The cultists at the FLDS ranch weren't applying for marriage licenses and they were legally getting married, so why would the Senator think that changing the law would do any good if he were specically targeting the cultists?
All you FLDS and other polygs that keep posting on here - THIS IS NOT A CASE OF RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, SO JUST GET OVER THAT STUPID ARGUMENT. THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE STATE OF TEXAS DOING WHAT UTAH AND ARIZONA REFUSED TO DO, AND DECIDED THAT 13 YEAR OLDS SHOULD NOT BE MARRYING 50 YEAR OLDS. IF THERE IS ANY PERSECUTION IN THESE RAIDS, IT'S PERSECUTION AGAINST PEDOPHILES.
As if changing the law from 14 to 16 made any differance whatsoever at all. The cultists at the FLDS ranch weren't applying for marriage licenses and they were legally getting married, so why would the Senator think that changing the law would do any good if he were specically targeting the cultists?
All you FLDS and other polygs that keep posting on here - THIS IS NOT A CASE OF RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, SO JUST GET OVER THAT STUPID ARGUMENT. THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE STATE OF TEXAS DOING WHAT UTAH AND ARIZONA REFUSED TO DO, AND DECIDED THAT 13 YEAR OLDS SHOULD NOT BE MARRYING 50 YEAR OLDS. IF THERE IS ANY PERSECUTION IN THESE RAIDS, IT'S PERSECUTION AGAINST PEDOPHILES.
Ro: Bot | 3:00 p.m. April 17, 2008
You left out some VERY IMPORTANT differences.
NONE of the 14 y/o's in your examples were FORCED by their parents into a false marriage to be sexually abused by an older man.
NONE of your 14 y/o's were held captive in an secured compound without any choice to leave.
NONE of your 14 y/o's were told that if they didn't do EVERYTHING they were told to do by a convicted child rapist, they faced eternal damnation.
NONE of the 14 y/o's in your examples were FORCED by their parents into a false marriage to be sexually abused by an older man.
NONE of your 14 y/o's were held captive in an secured compound without any choice to leave.
NONE of your 14 y/o's were told that if they didn't do EVERYTHING they were told to do by a convicted child rapist, they faced eternal damnation.
Anonymous | 3:08 p.m. April 17, 2008
any parent that leads a questionable lifestyle is at risk of loosing there
children in this country. Why should these parents be exempt. Where are the
crying father's by the way? Legal or not it bears questioning. Many of
these women do look awful young to have the amount of children they claim to
have. The "ranch" looks very dreary and considering that over 400
children live there I haven't seen any playgrounds or toys?
Re: Mark Hansen | 3:05 p.m. April 17, 2008
So, you think it's okay for pedophiles to hide behind the guise of
religion? That just because a religion thinks it's ok for 50 year old men
to marry and impregnate 13 year olds that the government should respect those
beliefs and just allow all this to happen?
If the FLDS cult is destroyed because of this, then it is their own doing when they themselves decided it was okay for pedophiles to act on their urges. Just because it's a religion that is practicing pedophilia, it's still against the law. Never is it ok for a 50 year old man, or older, to marry and impregnate a teenager. Not only is that sick and wrong, it's also against the law.
I think the United States Attorney General should go after one of these pedophiles that claims it's ok for them to marry and impregnate teenagers.
If the FLDS cult is destroyed because of this, then it is their own doing when they themselves decided it was okay for pedophiles to act on their urges. Just because it's a religion that is practicing pedophilia, it's still against the law. Never is it ok for a 50 year old man, or older, to marry and impregnate a teenager. Not only is that sick and wrong, it's also against the law.
I think the United States Attorney General should go after one of these pedophiles that claims it's ok for them to marry and impregnate teenagers.
The Texan | 3:05 p.m. April 17, 2008
"Trial by jury"
This is a custody hearing, not a criminal trial at present. Some of you are clueless.
Hey FLDS, get your lawyers to ask more dumb questions and make more objections and drag this out for years. Dumb strategy. Can only make it worse.
To RE:Rico FLDS MEN
DPS shows up on your doorstep to respond to an abuse report. When a child show up, pretend he's not yours. When the offers asks for a name, give him different ones, if multiple children give different parents names. Better yet, don't answer anything. The DPS officer will smile, thank you and pick the orphan up and take them with them. Comprehende?
And those on here wonder why this is in court? Keep wondering, you'll never figure it out.
Keep up the insults and name calling FLDS posters. It's getting you nowhere. It's actually making it worse. But, you don't care, do you?
There are Commune(ists)here but they live at El Dorado.
This is a custody hearing, not a criminal trial at present. Some of you are clueless.
Hey FLDS, get your lawyers to ask more dumb questions and make more objections and drag this out for years. Dumb strategy. Can only make it worse.
To RE:Rico FLDS MEN
DPS shows up on your doorstep to respond to an abuse report. When a child show up, pretend he's not yours. When the offers asks for a name, give him different ones, if multiple children give different parents names. Better yet, don't answer anything. The DPS officer will smile, thank you and pick the orphan up and take them with them. Comprehende?
And those on here wonder why this is in court? Keep wondering, you'll never figure it out.
Keep up the insults and name calling FLDS posters. It's getting you nowhere. It's actually making it worse. But, you don't care, do you?
There are Commune(ists)here but they live at El Dorado.
Re: Mark Hansen | 3:14 p.m. April 17, 2008
Does that state have an obligation to prevent self-inflicted genocide?
Like putting an end to incestuous practices that are creating a very real genetic defect time-bomb within the FLDS community.
If the parents aren't willing to prevent their own genocide, shouldn't the state step in to at least protect the kids?
Like putting an end to incestuous practices that are creating a very real genetic defect time-bomb within the FLDS community.
If the parents aren't willing to prevent their own genocide, shouldn't the state step in to at least protect the kids?
Norm Rivers | 3:11 p.m. April 17, 2008
Can't get in the courthouse?
Let's see 416 children, 416 attornies required. Judge, staff, and yes, the news media. Have you seen the size of the courthouse? This is a circus. Send individual cases to the other 258 counties in Texas and let everyone take 2 minimum. That should solve it.
jc, the parents don't give the correct name. The children are always correct, mommy and ?????
Let's see 416 children, 416 attornies required. Judge, staff, and yes, the news media. Have you seen the size of the courthouse? This is a circus. Send individual cases to the other 258 counties in Texas and let everyone take 2 minimum. That should solve it.
jc, the parents don't give the correct name. The children are always correct, mommy and ?????
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