Comments about ‘Attorneys, media, others descend on San Angelo for FLDS custody hearing’

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Published: Thursday, April 17 2008 9:15 a.m. MDT

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I'm with You!

I WILL BE PRAYING FOR THESE NICE LADIES TO GET THEIR KIDS BACK AND TO WIN A BIG LAWSUIT AGAINST THE STATE OF Texas.

snickerdoodle

snickerdoodle senses an explosion, and snickerdoodle will try to counter it.

The article said that "Sarah" doesn't exist.

*hold your fire*

The article ALSO said that the phone call was not the reason for the removals. It CLEARLY stated that the removals were based on what the Texas authorities saw upon arriving at the compound, not the phone call.

I have determined that someone must have known about the abuse in the compound (duh). He or she would have wanted to help the people, and decided the best way to alert the authorities was to pretend to be one of the abused people (I disagree).

OR . . .

It's also probable that someone from inside the compound called to report the abuse, but posed as someone else in order to avoid community disgrace. Once the police where there, they knew, the investigation would roll by itself.

Remember:

The removals were not made because of the call. They were made because of *concrete* evidence found once inside the compound.

englishrose

Well said Snickerdoodle. The call was probably made by someone not using her real identity, but you can be sure that call is recorded and it came from the cult compound.

No

In each state, LE can trace the position of most cell phone calls. The capability to do this was mandated to the cell companies after 9/11. So why have they not said if they traced the call and whether or not it actually came from the compound? (hint: because it didn't).

And if your probable cause is a big fat lie, as it is in this case, any charges resulting from it are likely to be dropped. Not at this local-yokel level, where the same judge who took the kids gets to rule on whether it was proper to take the kids. But at the federal level, which is where this will end up.

Nothing to snicker about

An earlier comment stated: "Remember, The removals were not made because of the call. They were made because...."

This is exactly the problem. The call appears to be a fabrication. Without the call being valid, without the victim being found, without the named defendant being part of the case, it matters not what evidence was gathered within the compound.

CPS officials are now trying to justify their illegal actions by pointing out these illegal actions were approved by a judge. Illegal actions are illegal actions, regardless of if they are perpetrated by 50 year old men and sanctioned by their church leaders or perpetrated by CPS officers and sanctioned by a small-town judge.

Thank goodness for the concept of judicial review. At some point this whole case will get reviewed by a responsible judge who cares about the legal foundation of this country and then what? Odds are that at that time, hundreds of teenage female victims will be sent back to their "spiritual husbands".

This whole situation is a tragedy. A tragedy made worse by the failure CPS officials to get a proper search warrant.

Chemist

I truly hope that this is the beginning of the end of the FLDS and that the children now in state custody will not have to go back into that compound and lifestyle. More of their leaders should be in the same place Warren Jeffs is, in prison. There should also be a detailed look at the finances of this cult. Remeber Tammy Bakker and her husband? The same type of investigation and charges should be considered for the FLDS.

A Texan

for "No"
Are you hoping the charges will be dropped? If theres a kid thats 13 and shes been impregnated by some 60 yr old man, while her mother sits back and condones it, are you going to sit there and hope all charges will be dropped?
I hope they nail em to a wall. Texas is doing the best they can to see that justice is carried out acccording to the law. This isnt about just the girl that called in, its about child molestation and sexual perversion.

snickerdoodle

Thanks, englishrose.

To "No":

Remember:

The call is practically irrelevent right now. The removals and drastic action were made because, once in the compound, the police found abuse. They were NOT relying on evidence from the phone call. I frankly don't care where the call came from.

Now . . .

If the call had been faked, and the police had run into the compound and pulled everyone out just because of a call they couldn't prove, that would be a crime. If the women and children had been removed because of the call and not the *concrete* evidence, then then police would have something to be ashamed about.

But, as we all know, the removals were made because of PHYSICAL evidence PHYISICALLY seen by the authorities.

Any questions?

Truth

We have two ladies staying with us who have fled polygamy groups. The things they've told us are not anything you'll hear these FLDS women say to the media. They are not going to admit to underage forced marriages or oppression on camera. I've heard,"well this is all they've ever known. They don't know any better" If they truly didn't know this was wrong, they would have admitted to underage marriages and not avoided the question. I strongly urge you to go the shieldandrefuge.org. It a website for victims of polygamous groups started by a woman who fled polygomy, Doris Hanson. Also visit hisfavoritewife.com. started by Susan Schmidt, another woman who fled polygamy.

dude

The state of Texas received an anonymous call from an alleged 16 year old claiming that she was raped and abused. In an instant...Texas shows up with child protection services, the Texas rangers, the police and sheriff, armored vehicles and strategic sharp shooters...oh and did I mention they had court signed documents all ready. And when they entered the ranch they find: women, children and their husbands praying and singing. And we are to believe they showed up to investigate an incidence??? Contrarily, they proceeded to take custody of all of 410 children, some who were sick and handicapped. No explanation provided to the loving mothers. One would think they would like to find the "person who called" and investigate the men. It all sounds more like a planned invasion and take-over by the great state of Texas. Welcome to America!

David the Quaker

What concerns me most is the acceptance of the general public of this type of police(government) action. I also noticed that many of the children were taken away in buses that are owned by a Baptist church and some a least were taken to that church. It seems to me that the crime that the FDLS church is guilty of in the popular mind is that they are different and therefore it would be ok to eliminate them.

Do not get me wrong. Anyone abusing children should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Marry girls off under 18 years off is, in my view, child abuse.

I will be holding everyone involved in this event in the Light of Christ.

Prayers

This whole episode has made my heart soo heavy. Last night my family prayed for these families who's civil rights appear to be in jeopardy. I don't claim to agree or understand their beliefs but I wouldn't want someone removing my children from my home...I have a large family also and this is society that increasingly intolerant with people who don't follow the "State" sanctioned religions.
-a catholic

St. George Resident

Texas is doing what Utah has failed to do for decades... PROTECT CHILDREN. These perverts have brainwashed and abused these kids for too long right under the nose of Utah's Attorney General Mark Shurtleff who has chosen to ignore the problem.

All of you who think that Texas is wrong should consider the 15 year old girls that are being raped and impregnated by 50+ year old men and the 12-14 year old boys that are being dropped off on street corners and banished.

Public Ignorance

One of the main problems here IS that the "outside world" calls impregnating 14 yr-olds child abuse while the spiritual beliefs of those living the "religeon" involved do NOT.
Their entire belief system involves "advancement" in the spiritual hereafter depending on the the level or number of children produced and brought into the "fold". As absurd as outsiders find it, those BELIEVING it are trying to "advance" to a higher "kingdom"! The female roll is to obey or go to hell! This sick belief system (which ALSO teaches that the women are DEPENDANT on their "man" to "take" them to heaven) should be understood before all these comments confuse things further........

Alex

I have plenty of concerns about this case, but now it is time for the state of Texas to put up, or shut up. If they end up putting up evidence of the widespread abuse they claim, then they will have done their job, as well as gained my confidence. However, if the abuse is not rampant, then they have some serious things to answer for. In short, Texas had better be right.

Steve

There is an argument that their society is so restrictive and distorting that harsh action is justified.

Consider the recent claims:

* FLDS leaders marrying off underage women to older men.

* Young, underage brides being raped.

* These improper marriages being consummated in their temple in Texas.

* Teenage boys being driven from the faith to provide more marriage opportunities for older men.

* A denial of education.

* Constant instruction that failure to follow their leaders and their latest whims will lead to eternal damnation.

* Physical abuse.

* Leaders who have been convicted of aiding and abetting rape.

* A secretive, suspicion and manipulative culture.

I've spent some time among the Amish. Similar to the FLDS, they retreat from modern society. But, they are friendly and open when interacting to the outside world.

In contrast, the FLDS are just bizarre. The press activities by the wives yesterday was just unnerving. Robotic. Fearful. Very, very strange.

These folks have more in common with the Branch Davidians or Jim Jones' folks in Central America than early Mormon pioneers. This may be the case where harsh government action is justified.

Anonymous

Actually, I stated that the cell phone call was the reason as to why they raided the compound, not for the removals. Don't get me wrong, the guilty should pay the consequences. The kids should be with their mothers.

Hypocrites

We are a nation of hypocrites, and this "mess" in tEXas proves it. If we are going to do this to the FLDS, what about all the predators who sell girls and women in Las Vegas and every other city in this nation. Why are we not going in with armored vehicles to places (escort services for one) where we know bad stuff is happening. I mean, if we can raid the FLDS compound in tEXas, why not an escort service or any other place like that?

shut'em down

The FLDS had better be looking at new digs in South America; or maybe Utah. Some place like that. They're done in Texas.

Carl

Do these same FLDS mothers mourn the expulsion of their adolescent and teenage sons, still and forever their children, when they are kicked out of the compound by the old men in charge? Do they publicly lash out at these old men like they do at the government (which is actually trying to make sure their children are safe)?
I don't hear these pitiful women crying over those children removed from their lives by FLDS leadership. A mother's heart is not that cold, is it?
Anybody noticed this irony?

Why beg to have back the children when you have already condemned and expelled other precious children all in the name of old men needing more wives? I think you don't really care about your children that much by example of years of throwing your children to the proverbial wolves. The government's the least of your problems. Your convictions are warped.

If the FLDS really valued their children, we wouldn't hear about the "Lost Boys" and these other sad cases of children who have grown up to be successful in fleeing this cult.

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