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Mysterious Sarah may be unnecessary in Texas bid to keep FLDS children
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To: KSR | 11:59 a.m. April 17, 2008
I don't have to be an FLDS supporter to disagree with a warrant.
I don't believe the warrant is invalid neccicarily. I do however, believe that IF it is invalid, they have no case. The law must be upheld. If you believe that they don't have to 'share' the warrant with anyone you are mistaken. It is not police or Fed. property but the courts. The FLDS organization DOES have right to see the terms and justification of the warrant.
The U.S. prevents unlawful search and seizure for a reason. History taught our nations founders a lesson. If you invade others on a whim, then you accept the obligation to allow yourself the same tresspass.
I agree that they are doing wrong things... BUT if the call was a random person and nothing really happened.... WHAT cause could you have to go in?
Basically anyone arguing otherwise is arguing that justice should be withdrawn because they feel that they don't need a valid warrant.
I don't believe the warrant is invalid neccicarily. I do however, believe that IF it is invalid, they have no case. The law must be upheld. If you believe that they don't have to 'share' the warrant with anyone you are mistaken. It is not police or Fed. property but the courts. The FLDS organization DOES have right to see the terms and justification of the warrant.
The U.S. prevents unlawful search and seizure for a reason. History taught our nations founders a lesson. If you invade others on a whim, then you accept the obligation to allow yourself the same tresspass.
I agree that they are doing wrong things... BUT if the call was a random person and nothing really happened.... WHAT cause could you have to go in?
Basically anyone arguing otherwise is arguing that justice should be withdrawn because they feel that they don't need a valid warrant.
ediddy | 12:20 p.m. April 17, 2008
While it may be perfectly legal and normal for the judge who issued the search
warrant that led to the raid on the YFZ compound, it would have been a good deal
more transparent in the interest of justice for her to have recused herself and
allowed someone less in the pocket of the CPS to have presided at a custody
hearing. It would have at least shown the intent of the state to be even handed.
As it is, does anyone doubt that the outcome will be other than what CPS
predetermined when they raided the ranch. Even if the evidence bears out the CPS
position, the handling of the case will leave a shadow over the already tainted
image of bigotry in the "great" state of Texas.
Comments continue below
suzyk | 12:40 p.m. April 17, 2008
The Mothers are as guilty as the men just for the fact they allow their children
to be molested, impregnated and themselves by numerous men. If that is not the
sickest and most demoralizing pattern of living. There is so much brain-washing
done every day in the polygamist camps. Hopefully by separating the children
from these pathetic women will prolong some of their little lives and maybe be
adopted into some normal circumstances instead of being used and abused by
people who choose to follow the path of Satan himself.
spudgam | 12:53 p.m. April 17, 2008
Mink-I agree with you. This Texas thing is only the tip of an iceberg we in
other states have known about for some time. CPS is the largest invasion of
rights foisted on the American people. Not only is that bad but our laws make
it a crime for ANYONE who suspects or sees abuse, not to report it!
So everyone becomes a delegate of the state and no proof of allegations is required before children are removed. Than the process to regain them gets harder and harder.
So everyone becomes a delegate of the state and no proof of allegations is required before children are removed. Than the process to regain them gets harder and harder.
S. Rolfs | 1:22 p.m. April 17, 2008
In response to "A Texan". Having worked as a child advocate for 10
years. I do get it. This should not be about religion but a violation of the
law.
However, after working in the system I have come to know several things for a fact.
1. Judges do base rulings on personal bias. It is a reality.
2. CPS does think they are gods unto themselves (not individuals but the system).
I have personally watched as judges made rulings in direct violation of the evidence. I have watched social workers, their supervisors and even their directors lie on the stand to get the ruling they wanted.
If there is abuse here it certianly needs to be addressed and punished, but just off the top of my head, I can think of better ways to have handled these children while providing them with less trauma and more security. Makes me wonder if "best interst of the child" was really the focus because I don't see "best interest of the child" in the way this was handled.
However, after working in the system I have come to know several things for a fact.
1. Judges do base rulings on personal bias. It is a reality.
2. CPS does think they are gods unto themselves (not individuals but the system).
I have personally watched as judges made rulings in direct violation of the evidence. I have watched social workers, their supervisors and even their directors lie on the stand to get the ruling they wanted.
If there is abuse here it certianly needs to be addressed and punished, but just off the top of my head, I can think of better ways to have handled these children while providing them with less trauma and more security. Makes me wonder if "best interst of the child" was really the focus because I don't see "best interest of the child" in the way this was handled.
Hey Spudgam | 1:27 p.m. April 17, 2008
What do you mean by "no proof of allegations?" We already know that
their prophet Warren Jeffs "married" a 14 year old girl to her uncle!
Incest is a part of their belief to keep their "royal lineage" pure.
Young girls are considered women once they start their cycles regardless of
their age. We know this as fact unless you haven't been paying attention
to the news and Jeffs on the FBI most wanted list.
My Thought | 1:45 p.m. April 17, 2008
Pologamy is illegal, right? However we ignore it and allow it to occur right?
Suddenly we hear the word abuse and we jump and run. Could not some of this
"abuse" been avoided, if we had enforced the illegal practice of
pologamy in the first place. By ignoring the "law" we have enabled
those individuals to practice their "version" of marriage. Now we are
trying to clean up the mess. If the children are abused they should be
protected. If pologamy is illegal those practicing need to face that music. If
we are not going to enforce it, why waste time with it on the books.
Littleberry | 2:52 p.m. April 17, 2008
An old Texas A&M saying "highway 6 runs both ways". That means
that they could have gotten out of Texas at anytime. They came in on the road
and they can go out on it. They knew Texas does not tolerate Cults. They
shouldn't have built their compound here and not expect something to happen
someday.
To Elder Steven Snow | 3:20 p.m. April 17, 2008
Take your wild story to the Attorney General. See how far you get.
Wonder how many attornies in Texas are FLDS, blood money paid.
Wonder how many attornies in Texas are FLDS, blood money paid.
To Doug | 3:23 p.m. April 17, 2008
Every heard of a CPS call line? All calls are confidential and anonymous and
yes, recorded. They got multiple calls and investigated and found "probable
cause". Which part of that didn't sink in? Read the court affadavit,
it spells it out.
cjp | 9:16 p.m. April 17, 2008
I disagree with underage marrages. We all are subject to the laws of the
land.
I disagree with entering into a community (could be mine next time) and taking all the children with swatt teams and armord vehicles based on a fake phone call and what they saw when they got there ???? --- come on this is America
SHOULDN'T BE DOING EITHER ONE
I disagree with entering into a community (could be mine next time) and taking all the children with swatt teams and armord vehicles based on a fake phone call and what they saw when they got there ???? --- come on this is America
SHOULDN'T BE DOING EITHER ONE
The Texan | 1:14 p.m. April 18, 2008
, The law also requires CPS to notify law enforcement agencies of all reports of
alleged abuse or neglect. The law enforcement agency determines, separate from
CPS, whether to conduct a criminal investigation and whether a criminal
violation occurred.
CPS doesn't always need a court order to remove children. It can remove children if the person taking possession of the child has sufficient knowledge or reason to believe that there is an immediate danger to the physical health or safety of the child and/or the child has been the victim of sexual abuse.
Law enforcement officers obtained a warrant authorizing a search of the compound. Much has been made of the fact that Sarah has not been identified.
Some, including sect members and their attorneys, have said that the call was not placed by anyone in the compound; that it was placed by a disgruntled member or, worse, was a hoax.
I say it doesn't matter, and the Supreme Court agrees.
CPS doesn't always need a court order to remove children. It can remove children if the person taking possession of the child has sufficient knowledge or reason to believe that there is an immediate danger to the physical health or safety of the child and/or the child has been the victim of sexual abuse.
Law enforcement officers obtained a warrant authorizing a search of the compound. Much has been made of the fact that Sarah has not been identified.
Some, including sect members and their attorneys, have said that the call was not placed by anyone in the compound; that it was placed by a disgruntled member or, worse, was a hoax.
I say it doesn't matter, and the Supreme Court agrees.
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These women have been told thier entire lives by the men what thier interpretation of what is or is not legal. They all need to be educated on what is illegal, it is illegal for a 14 year old to consent to sexual contact, plain and simple.
I also love the answers they give when they say no one is "forced" to do anything, I supposed they are right but threatening enternal damnation for not doing what your told pretty much is the same as being forced.