Looks like the folks in Texas came prepared for anything. Fortunately, the
firepowere was not needed. I have wondered how long Texas was going to allow
these compound people to break the laws of our state.
It seems to me that the Texas authorities had a well-orchestrated plan for much
more than "looking for an abused sixteen year old mother" when they raided that
place. This raid was unconstitutional, plain and simple. No one can convince
me that all 416 of those children were under current risk of abuse. "Potential
risk of abuse" at some future date, yes. But if that argument is used, every
catholic church, every mormon ward house, and elementary school in the country
is suspect. God help us all. I pray for the safe return of those children to
their families, and for legitimate prosecution of perpetrators of an actual
crime and not a potential crime.
The logistics of such a huge raid would require weeks to plan and mobilize the
huge army of assets, both human and physical. It would be interesting to know
if the phone call from the purported FLDS member came a week prior or within a
few hours of the raid.
This runs much deeper then the unfortunate conidtions at the ranch which could
have been addressed more diplomatically. What really concerns me is that this
is clearly another case of the 'storm trooper" mentality in which our
constitutional rights have been trampled. Of course they have not located the
"girl" who phoned in the abuse - because no such call took place. We might as
well be living in Russia or China. I would wager that if the compound was a
mosque, no such raid would have taken place (whether or not there was abuse or
terrorists inside). If there was, the NY Times and the rest of the media elite
would be outraged. By way of contrast, in Iraq and Afghanistan, no GI can
enter a mosque even if he is being shot at. However, the polygamous sect in
Texas was Christian. Therefore, no harm/no foul and no outrage at the
additional loss of our precious consitutional rights and privileges. Don't be
surprised when they burst through your front door under false prestenses becasue
you are a Jew, Black, Christian or heaven forbid, spank your child. All it
takes apparently, is one phone call, unsubstantiated or not.
GenocideFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation,
searchFor other uses, see Genocide (disambiguation).Genocide
is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or
national group.While precise definition varies among genocide
scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on
the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2 of this
convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent
to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious
group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental
harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of
life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
How exactly was the search unconstitutional? If you just read the news, you'll
see that the call came in 3/4 days before the raid. You'll also see that local
authorities had been watching the compound but was not able to actually go in
and investigate until they received that call. CPS is required to investigate
every allegation of abuse or neglect that is received. Thank God they did!
We've seen quite a few women turn on the tears but so far only 3 men have spoken
out and none of them are crying.
If the sheriff had an informant on the property and was receiving information
for the last four years, wouldn't they know that the FLDS were not armed and
that all the weaponry they went in with was not necessary?
There was NO informant on the property. Those reports are false. If you read
what was in the affidavit he had an informant that was from the group. The
informant was not on the compound...doubt he/she ever was. From what I
understand...the informant isn't a part of the group any more. People need to
read the actual information.
Also...to add to my last comment. There is no actual church at the compound.
They pay taxes on all the property. The State does not recognize any part of
that compound as a church...temple or otherwise.
Not if the "informant" wanted to paint the FLDS members in as bad a light as
possible. The informant (aka TN) knew absolutely these people are non violent
and would not resist in a confrontational manner. But he has a major grudge to
bear and is putting a determined effort to destroy a way of life he once enjoyed
by spewing forth outlandish lies and exaggerations. Misery loves company is his
Come to think of it, where are the men of this outfit? The one registered sex
offender that showed up in St. George we know of, and of course the other well
armed one with a good squad picked up with wads of cash near Vegas...Not much
concern about the herd of breeding stock on their part, is there?
The more I read on how the Texas authorities handled/are handling this it makes
it look a lot less like "protect the children" and a whole lot more like "lets
purge the FLDS".
Wilford Woodruff (Manifesto denouncing Plural Marriage Practice): " I saw that
if we continued the practice... that it would mean the destruction of the Church
and the confiscation (past past tense) of Church property, and their would be no
Temple work performed for the living or the dead. (hence, D&C 2:3 would be
fulfilled, (you can look that one up too).
The Amish don't go to jail in mass numbers ('course they're not livin' in Texas)
if they were there, umm, yup, they would have ended up the same way..
The Wacoites... I mean, the Branch Davidians of the Seventh Day
Adventist Church got pummeled by the Texas and Fed authorities..
I saw Terry Nicholes standing outside the Compound in Waco as that occurred.
The results of that raid are obvious. The former Wacoites
(branch Davidians) like Terry Nichols took out those that issued the warrants
for the arrest... oh, and their entire building they were housed in. Do children need protected. Yes. Do the Amish children need protected, or
the Quakers, or the Hudderites? (you can look that one up). Yes, but,
in the cases where abuse occurs in other States, they prosecute individually. Same here, the Baptistites should have followed other States
examples, and ... prosecute only those they finid guilty beyond a reasonable
doubt. DCFS, CPS and the like are opposites to the Constitution, they do not
follow it... alas
"Land of the free"? I think not. The whole affair si horrendous. Abuse? By the
Texas authorities, maybe. Separating children from their mothers? I remember
these things only back in nazi Germany and stalinist Russia. I never lived in
China but heard that there too these things have been going on. Today FLDS,
tomorrow...? I pity the poor children and I pity us. I do not, for one minute,
believe the purpose of all this was to save them from an abuse. I do not believe
there was a phone call from a sixteen year old. I do not agree with polygamy but
my heart goes to these poor people and I hope the children will be allowed to go
home soon. We pray for them.
I originally thought this was a good thing going in to save girls who were being
forced into marriages and sex at such a young age. The more I hear about it the
more I feel it violates our constitutional rights. If something is happening
with someone underage go in there and arrest the suspect. These people aren't
armed, you don't need to roll in and tear an entire society apart. Serve the
search warrant, search for the suspect(s) and take them into custody. End of
Is what the FLDS thought they had. Turns out they have hell in Texas. They are
the modern day victims of a nazi-like government organizing and conducting a
gestapo-like raid and kidnapping of all their children. This amounts to
genocide for those poor families. Texas authorities are criminals. The good
Christian citizens of Schleicher County are criminal conspirators. Imagine the
First Baptist Church of Eldorado providing buses to haul off the children, the
church building to initially house them in and the upstanding Baptist Men's
Organization making filthy lucre to feed the stolen people.
The FLDS has had and will always have a PR problem. Unlike the Amish who are
generally respected and beloved in their region and around the country. They
don't have to worry about persecution, since their customs don't offend the
general public in the way the FLDS clearly does. The worse you could say about
the Amish is they shun those who leave the community, but will accept them back
if they choose to return.
Of course, the Amish don't trade their 14 and 15 year old daughters around and
kick their sons out of the village when they get old enough to be a threat to
the status quo, do they?
First, from a legal standpoint, it doesn't matter if they found the girl who
called. That was reason for a search warrant and they could then act on whatever
evidence they found of wrongdoing. But dang, people! You think they should just
be allowed to keep on impregnating teen-agers, marrying them off to men four
times their age? Do you really?
To Jack Triump (7:08 pm) and Anonymous (8:02 pm), it looks like you're okay with
the raiding of your home based on a trumped up charge. Great. Give us your
personal info and we'll get it done.You both (and I'm sure others)
still believe there was a call. You also believe in the tooth fairy. Think (I know it's hard). Authorities were ready to raid the camp, but just
needed a phone call? Right.There was no phone call. That will never
be proven just like the 16 year-old girl will never appear because she's not
real.But you'll believe anything since all polygamists are evil
child abusers and wife beaters.
WOW, what a bunch of whacked out people on here. Are you certain you people are
law abiding citizens or just law breaking sympathizers and polygamists. What's
be coming of these two cults? It all looks pretty fishy to many of us. Good work
Just an interesting note: The CPS claim that by taking the moms away, these kids
will be more "truthful". Truth is, they realize there's no abuse... they had to
isolate COMPLETELY these little kids who don't have the ability to tell the
world the truth so they (CPS) can make up their own story. They also realize
the initial "phone call" that prompted this raid has no credit. Else why would
they take one of the captured moms aside and threaten her to tell the world she
was the alleged victim or they would take her own child away and she would never
see it again? Of course she would not, cause the call was bogus! And whoever
threw the thought that the men involved are not crying, sounds like you haven't
been reading much... I also pray, return these children to their families.
The state of Texas should be able to reconstitute families with DNA. They can
probably use DNA also to prove paternity and statutory rape of minors. But the
state had better come up with legally unimpeachable justification for this raid,
or this is going to make the Duke Lacrosse travesty look elementary. No one is
immune from religious bigotry, but Texas and the Bible Belt is especially ripe
with it. Our legal system has a serious weakness when it comes to balancing the
rights of adults with the need to protect children. Just look at the Wikipedia
entry for "Day care sex abuse hysteria" and see the numerous lives destroyed by
I knew something was off about this raid when they hauled them off in baptist
buses. Baptist organized to bring Romneys Presidential hopes down leaving us
without a conservative candidate, only because he was Mormon. These guys in the
compound were Mormon apostates. I don't think they should have purged the
compound. You prosecute individuals. No one in California is planning a raid on
Hugh Heffner. I guess baptist hate everybody.
I have seen the goodness and humility of people that have been persecuted and
reviled for their faith, always having to flee danger. No one loves their
family more than these gentle children of God.The question about the
phone call can be answered if the authorities will reveal the "E911" information
that will pinpoint the call's origination.Why were the detailed
records that the church made during the arrests confiscated?We need a full
investigation of the government's actions, also, but let us blame no one and try
to heal these wounds.
I am so sick of hearing people say there is no "girl", it is all an excuse for
the FBI to go in-whatever. She is not going to stand up and say "Hi, it's
me"-especially now. Give me a break! I wouldn't be surprised if she used a
false name when she called. If she were caught who knows what would of happened
to her and do you think she would speak up now after all of this. Come on!
> But dang, people! You think they should just be allowed to > keep on
impregnating teen-agers, marrying them off to men > four times their
age?Reading the accounts of the people who escaped makes you recoil.
How about the lost boys who are driven out of the community so the older men
can marry a dozen teens? Of the 419 children, only about 50 are boys. They are
completely unprepared for life on the outside.It's a tough situation
for everyone but the one thing that's clear and right about U.S. law is child
abuse has to trump all.
There was not due process. What can we do to help the families who had their
children ripped away from them. Can any of you imagine that a neighbor
who did not like you - could call CPS...and without any proof - CPS - came and
took all your children? How would you feel? How about they don't like your
religion - would that be grounds to take your kids? There has not yet been
any proof of a girl under age being pregnant. I hope a really smart,
powerful lawyer - goes to their defense.
It doesn't sit well with me when these mothers talk about being lied to. I know
they were lied to, and I know why they were lied to. Somehow though, their
complaints don't hold any weight when this sect has withheld names, ages,
biological relationships, and anything pertinent to this whole process. Their secrecy is what's hurting them. They won't get their children
back by withholding necessary information. It's absurd. I wonder
about the six women who chose safehavens instead of returning to the compound.
I would love to know their motives.Can't wait to see how it unfolds,
Is an anonymous accusation from a single teenager sufficient justification for
breaking up an entire community, including forcibly separating parents from
small children? Does the abundance of wild rumors alone empower the state to
systematically attack a religious minority? To what extend does weirdness
justify persecution? What should the public conclude if the facts ultimately
show the state failed to follow due process in depriving minorities of their
liberties? I have no interest in promoting polygamy or child-rape. But all
Americans should have a strong interest in freedom of religion, freedom from
unreasonable search and seizure, and freedom from the unbridled power of the
state. Texas had better come up with legally unimpeachable justification for
this military-style invasion.
Photo caption: "A Midland County Sheriff's Department armored vehicle is seen
during the raid on the Yearning For Zion ranch in Eldorado, Texas, April 4."The photograph of the armored vehicle says it all.Armored
vehicles used against people exercising their right of free speech in Tianamen
Square. Armored vehicles used against Buddist monks protesting for the right
of Tibetan people to exercise their right of religion in China.Armored vehicles running down crowds of Poles as the Nazis advanced towards
Warsaw.The armored vehicle says it all.Women and
children are enemies of the state.I am glad I am old and going to
die soon because I cannot live under a government which feels the need to use
armored vehicles against people who are U.S. citizens.
To BMar: you may be right that the authorities found evidence of abuse once
they got there. However, to take 416 innocent children away from their parents
makes them now a victim of the abuse perpetrated by the government as well
(especially in their own minds, do you think for a minute that they want the
state's protection at this point?) Rather than just pile all the kids into some
Baptist church bus and haul them off in a terrified mess, they should take the
"evidence of abuse" that they found and go after the men that are impregnating
those teenagers. These kids are now victims from both sides.
I think it is interesting that dfs in any state operates outside the foundation
of the rest of our legal system which is you are guilty until your innocence is
proven. i have talked to many workers in 3 different states I have lived inwho took intake calls and they freely admit that as many as 80% of the calls
they receive are false and motivated by grudges and discord with the
families involved and have no basis in fact. It seems to me that far more damage
can be done emotionally and psychologicly to these families to separate them
from each other on such flimsy evidence. My view has nothing to do with
supporting a polygamist lifestyle which I personally feel is wrong but with our
constutional rights. There is a big difference between potential and actual
abuse and it should be handled on a case by case not enmasse.
To: Come on! @10:19The accuser might be bogus and probably is. But
for sure the accusation is bogus. The accused was interviewed by the police and
let go. He has a water-tight, verifiable alibi. That leaves the Texas
authorities with a bit of egg on their collective faces. As it does the accuser
How could anyone compare this group of pedophiles with the Amish?
It is unthinkable that the Amish would sexually abuse their children or would
engage in plural marriage.
As a TAX paying Arizona resident and a resident of Mohave County (yeah the same
county as whacked out Colorado City)- I say send them ALL to Texas. There has
been numerous outcrys from Colorado City of Abuse, Neglect, Rape, Sodomy,
Molestation,etc....but since this flipping state is so Mormon then everyone
looks the other way. The last statistics coming from our county office was that
79% of the population in Colorado City was getting welfare, Medicaid, WIC, Food
Stamps, HUD, etc- while over 400 million in assests was in the hands of their
"church" (and I use that term loosely as this cult has Nothing to do with
religion). The few of use Tax-Paying Arizonians was tickled pink when Warren
decided that God was returing to them near the Gulf Of Mexico...ie, anywhere but
here. I for one have "paid" for this cult long enough. Someone else can have a
turn now. Our old County Commisioner said he couldn't fix the problem but that
maybe the cult would inbreed so much that they would eventually kill themselves
all off. Instead of stopping this HUGE problem- everyone here looks the other
way (praying they'll die)- Don't mess with Texas!
No one in law enforcement in Utah and Arizona can explain how Warren Jeffs was
put on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list. Both Attorney Generals have tried to dodge
stirring up a hornets nest like the 1953 Arizona raid on Shortcreek. It is like
the Wizard of OZ. Someone pulled additional strings to add up to $100,000 of
reward money for Jeffs capture in increments and timing to coincide with the
presidential election. Jeffs was held for about 16 months in solitary
confinement in Purgatory Jail before he could face his accuser. Arizona had 61
complaints like the Texas complaint and found 50 of them bogus with no victim to
be found. The Texas sheriff fell for it on the third nibble, just in time to
coincide with the rumor of Mitt Romney becoming a VP candidate. The Texas
sheriff has a snitch advising him of what to do, but I would lay a big bet that
she and all the other string pullers are connected to the Democratic National
Committee. All this trouble is not about what you think it is. Yes, there are
bad characters, but there is someone else pulling strings to achieve a different
It all started when Mitt Romney let it out that he was going to be candidate for
President in the spring of 2006. Then someone in Washington convinced the FBI to
add Jeffs to the 10 most wanted list along with Osama and a string of murders
and bank robbers. Then the reward was raised twice to $100,000 with press
releases throughout the USA. Finally an unknown snitch whispered in the Sheriffs
ear that there were beds in the temple, attack now! At the same time the No Mitt
for VP ad was released. Sheriff, check the phone records of your snitch. She
probably has disappeared by now. No use looking for the 16 year old. Look for
the snitch. Sometimes there really is a conspiracy. Texans, remember the Alamo,
the Texas book depository, Waco and the FLDS "compound" This is not about
child abuse, religion or polygamy, it's politics at its ugliest. Follow the
$100,000 reward money.
BMar (9:49pm) stated, "from a legal standpoint, it doesn't matter if they found
the girl who called."Hello? Do we still live in the United
States?I am not excusing the FLDS people for any acts they may have
committed. That is not the point. The laws of this country must be
followed. If the laws have devolved to the point where anyone with a Walmart pre-paid phone can cause someone else to loose their children, our
country, the country I have loved and pledged allegiance to, has truely
fallen.Is there a neighbor on your street who hates you? Maybe you
called the "dog catcher" when his Springer Spanial got into your garbage."911 what is your emergency?""I just saw a man at 401 Cliffside
Lane beating his son in their back yard! The man was screaming and kicking the
boy! The poor child couldn't have been older than 10!"Do I hope all
the pedophiles are thrown in prison? Oh yeah. I also hope that BMar kissed his
kids goodbye this morning before leaving for work, because if he has ever called
a "dog catcher" his kids may not be there when he gets home.
The girls phone call alleged that a specific person was sexually abusing her in
the compound, they tracked down the accused man and he doesn't even live in
Texas and he hasn't for several years, the call was obviously a hoax.
Do you think it takes a plig to think these people are descent?? Texas?? Turn on
the TV look at us! Look at your self. Most 12 13 year old kids in school are
having sex, Getting pregnant, killing there babies. We the usa are all about
SEX. Thats wat we,you teach your kids on TV every day. We should look at are
morals, and if are morals are Better then theres.(FLDS) If you like the way we,
the us are, then so be it. But to come in and say that these people are morally
wrong.. Well huh thats not the reason for this raid. You better start by
defending your own Rights.. Thers not many people that can see past there nose.
But those of you that want to see the REAL PICTURE just look a little farther
and you will be astonished.
It is amazing that there are so many comments here effectively supporting rape
and abuse of children. This is 2008, and it should have been dealt with long
ago.It is also surprising that excuses are being made for the adult
women of the sect, who have supported the rape of their own children. Yet, as
is becoming apparent, they are not being charged. There's way too
much confusion on the parameters around "religion" and what is should entail or
duh....pacific...where is the evidence?
The difference between these young ladies and thier counterparts in society is
choice. They have very limited choices, and an even more limited education with
which to make those choices.Think about this if they choose to participate
with the government they will lose their families, due to reassignment, and if
they choose not to go along with the government they will lose thier families
due to abuse.
Go back and read about Branch Davidians and read about Randy Weaver. Read about
the persecution of Mormons in the 1800's, about the murder of Joseph Smith. Is
our government allowed to use Gestapo tactics on citizens whose religion they
disagree with. How is the kids on drugs who become addicts and hookers (but
have freedom) better off than these young people.?
Open your eyes, America!!! What CPS did do the FLDS is happening to individual
families on a daily basis all across America. Look up "fight CPS" on a search
engine. It will open your eyes. As one of the FLDS mothers said, it can happen
to you. If someone has a vendetta against you, they can destroy your family.
For those of you who have had their children removed or may at some point in the
future, remember: At the Adversary Hearing, you must oppose to your children
being in custody and you must ask for a court-appointed attorney if you cannot
afford one. Contact your local, state, and federal lawmakers to stop this
insane violation of our Constitutional rights. Go to your state's website to
find your representatives. Write to them as well as all of the representatives.
If they get a ton of e-mails, letters, & phone calls, maybe they will create
the necessary legislation to end this abuse of power. Remember, we put these
people in office to represent us. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!
Look at the enlarged photo of that vehicle. You can see the kill marks. 2 people
and a car.