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Comments about ‘Texas authorities move children while dozens of attorneys meet with judge’

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Published: Monday, April 14 2008 4:09 p.m. MDT

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Douglas

Hard to believe the state wants to hold one hearing to determine collectivly if a given parent is guilty of neglect in regard to a given child. I guess the state just needs to appoint one guardian ad litem for all the children, and make all the attorneys for the parents appoint a spokesperson to make all the oral arguments. Since the culture is on trial and the individuals rights are irrelevant, no argument or proof as to specific grounds suggesting fitness or lack thereof should be heard. Then, punishment can be delivered to the community as a whole - maybe make them all wear an armband, tattoo their social security number on their wrist, and limit any application for visitation with a child by thats child's parents to evidence on how the group's culture has become more mainstream.
I find it hard to concentrate running my law office knowing that anywhere in our country this wholesale trampling of our Constitution is occuring. I sit in shock, reading these blogs, waiting on our government to wake up, acknowledge its mistakes, return the kids and start over on their investigation. Shame on the ACLU for their absence.

Common Logic

Presenting a court case in defense of FLDS parents and children would logically begin by determining parentage. A mother and a father with a valid marriage certificate for themselves and a valid birth certificate for the child should have legal standing as parents if no abuse is claimed or suspected.

All other children should be treated as abandoned and become wards of the state. Mothers who were impregnated under legal age and who refuse to identify the father (physical sire) of their child (or children) in order to protect him from criminal charges, may need counseling before they resume parenting roles.

WaCk E

Now the government should goto all the low income projects around the US and rip there kids away from them!! All we have to do is to have ONE kid call the cops for help and call in the SWAT TEAM!! save all the would be drug dealers and gang bangers!

Making more sense

Would it not have made more sense to remove the adult males, and let the children stay in their own homes? Cheaper too. I think Texas may be answering to the USSC on this one, and pretty soon, at that.

stephen blaser

I have look on and wondered where all the civil rights people have been during the time this has been going on. I thought that the ACLU might have been out of the country while this was going on.. We all know that if these parents would have been black or brown or purple in color that the ACLU would have been going crazy by now.. How can a cell phone call from one person, that hasn't been found yet, cause the civil rights of all these people to be taken away. It seems like we are back in the 1930's again and we all are living in Hitler's Germany

John

Thank you Douglas.

Where is the outrage? 416 children are yanked from their homes. They and their mothers are held incommunicado. If there are broken laws, convict and punish the guilty. But why is this entire community being punished? Doesn't the law required that a parent be found guilty of neglect or abuse in order to remove that parent's child?

Is it automatically considered "abusive" to associate with a group that others find distasteful? Is it automatically considered "abusive" to associate with a person who may have engaged in underage sex?



? Common Logic

Extending your thoughts - should the government look into all children where the parents do not have a valid marriage certificate? Where do you suppose this would lead?

Timothy-Allen Albertson

Tom Green Courthouse? My, my!!!

Douglas

How is the State going to prove that the teenager became pregnant in Texas? No crime unless the state proves it occured in the prosecuting jurisdiction. I suspect the mothers are resiting talking to the interogators, although I am certain we will see no child unclaimed when the custody proceedings get underway. Since in 2005 a 14 year old in Texas could lawfully marry and bear children, age at conception is also an issue.

Thomas Jefferson

What I would like to know is what judical policy or procedure manual is Texas following. This is unprecedented. As such, they have no choice but to make things up as they go along. How does a judge know when and who these kids can talk to or visit. How is it that we effectively assume that even the mothers cannot be allowed access to they're own children. No one has made any allegations against a mother yet but no matter 'no can do'. Texas is in unchartered territory and making up the judicial rules as they go has a horrible constitutional track record. Want to bet the US Supreme Court gets a number of cases out of this mess.

enough of this

I am LDS and while I don't agree with the FLDS stance on polygamy it seems to me that this has gotten so out of hand that it is ridiculous! To take children away and to not let mothers see or talk to their children breaks my heart. I am a mother and I would be so distraught over not being able to be a mother to my child when he/she needed me. There could be abuse going on and if that is the case remove those children but an entire community? Come on if this isn't religious persecution I don't know what is.
At first I was glad they took the kids but now it seems that the government has violated every right that these people have! Let them go home and do this the right way if they are being abused look at each case individually and go from there.

Douglas

The ACLU is absent because of the child abuse allegation. Some people deserve killing, but no child deserves rape, the most socially repugnant crime and affront to morality in our Country. Raise child abuse/rape up the flagpole and everyone salutes. Child molesters have a short life-span in prison, being despised by even the most devious of violent criminals.
As such, it appears that the ACLU is sitting on their hands, petrified to act in case some really nasty facts indicating child abuse are unearthed. While they have taken unpopular positions in the past, it seems that being viewed as siding with the child molesters is too much for them. The child protective services people have played this card to the max, but soon they will have to prove their sweeping allegations on a case by case basis, without using religious affiliation as their sole factual support of parental unfitness.

ACLU?

Seriously, where is the ACLU on this one? The ACLU is really showing its true colors....

Dale Osborn

I can`t believe some people are concerned so much about decent people trying to separate themselves from a world that teaches...It`s ok to drink booze smoke drugs...have teen mothers that cost us for years, let lude and lascivious behavior be a matter of fashion..... These people take care of their own problems and do not ask for help...What you have done is wrong..You have condemned innocent people.
Some states have allowed teen marriage since 1812..BIBLE men had many wives and some places still have this. You want to go after corruption and sin??..Start at home...At church...Your own heart!!

Concerned

Our state DOES have a right to intervene whenever there is suspected abuse and neglect of underaged children! Some of these children are not even sure who their biological parents are! These children are naming multiple mothers, for goodness sakes! Do you know who your mother is? I suspect you do and probably who your father is also! These children have a right to know who their parents are at the very least! This is just one of the problems that I see with this group of people who have separated themselves from mainstream society. Anytime a group of people cuts itself off from mainstream society, we all should be asking what is going on behind this need to be isolated. When the stronger are controlling the weaker, something is not right!

Hugh McBryde

In a country where the principle is innocent, until proven guilty, why would the mothers have to prove anything? They are charged with no crimes. Why can't the simply leave with the children that call them Mommy? Certainly enough people we all agree to be their neighbors are there, no one is disputing which child belongs to which mother, I am sure.

Anonymous

All of you are pathetic. These people are not being punished for their religion, abiet it is a cult and not a religion. They just call it a religion to justify what they do. These people are breaking the law, i.e. old people marrying underage girls. They only marry them spiritually because they know they can't marry them legally. That is rape - statutory RAPE. Regardless of what religion/cult you belong to, if the male is over a certain age and the female is under a certain age it is rape regardless of consent. And it should be. The FLDS do everything possible to skirt the law. It is disgusting. If they can't be faithful to one wife, at least they should be unfaithful with other adults and not children. I fail to understand why everyone is defending them. They are disgusting. It makes me sick to think of these older men having sex with girls that are under the age of 16. They are just "babies" themselves and certainly not mature enough to be a mother.

Louisa

Polygamy is clearly illegal in this country. Frankly, in my opinion the State of Texas is simply being responsible and effective, i.e. aggressively investigating in order to protect the right of its littlest and most defenseless citizens to grow up in an environment secure from child sexual abuse, child abuse and prearranged underage polygamous marriages. If abuses are not established in these cases, has any harm really been done through aggressive investigation? No. This is a situation where children deserve protection and I for one am grateful that the authorities in Texas are being responsible and looking out for the best interest of the children.

Amazed

Religious freedom? Do the women and children in Mormon fundamentalism have religious freedom? No. They are coerced into polygyny, sharing a husband with many wives, forced pregnancy and mandatory motherhood amounting to slavery -- all by religious beliefs that are dictated to them by men who are making it up as they go along.

Do the women and children have normal access to education, safety, services like other US citizens? No. They are isolated and deprived of normal rights.

Do the women and children have any options or support for pursuing education and training and careers and paychecks, and a life they choose? No. They are coerced into a pioneer lifestyle.

How can anyone call this religious freedom? This is not about freedom of religious speech or belief--this is about BEHAVIOR or inflicting your relgious beliefs and practices upon others, not to mention bondage, pregnancy, motherhood, abuse, and female and child slavery.

On top of these abuses, are rape, child abuse, incest, forced labor, mind control, and complete exploitation of bodies, minds and lives. This is about control, of others, not about freedom of any kind.

anonymous

Well, they do everything big in Texas - football, barbeques, bigotry, ...it's no suprise.

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