Deseret News | Raid aftermath: Cell phones are confiscated

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Raid aftermath: Cell phones are confiscated

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Prison camp | 12:25 p.m. April 14, 2008

The FLDS compound was a prison to their women and children. Clear so. The women in "custody" by Texas authorities are free to leave the shelters at any time. This has been made quite clear as well. So many ignorant posters who claim to love freedom have this situation backwards.

CA | 12:51 p.m. April 14, 2008

This is a child abuse case, not a religious test. Tose phones should have been removed since day one. The men are calling and telling the women and children what to do and say. The women won't identify the kids on the advice of the men. I hope Texas sends those kids to foster care ASAP.

disgusted mother | 1:05 p.m. April 14, 2008

a man could have sex with a 13 year old child (who then gives birth) but an exam would make her uncomfortable!!! I say it's about time someone stopped the wackos of the world. Adults should not be having sex with young teens period.

Comments continue below

Concerned | 1:00 p.m. April 14, 2008

A) If a man abused my children, I expect law enforcement to put him in jail, NOT let him continue to roam free.

B) If my children were harmed, I expect my children to be cared for, NOT locked up.

C) If my husband breaks the law, I expect him to be confined and dealt with appropriately and according to the laws, NOT me and my children to be detained for his actions.

Nothing about this makes any sense.

Men broke laws? Then why are there women and children being detained? Are the men being investigated? Questioned? Having to get lawyers and arranging bail hearings to get out of the county jails? Are the men being poked, prodded, and searched as per the normal routine of entering jail facilities? It seems the women and children are experiencing those sorts of things.

This just all seems backwards to me. Couldn't they have removed the men from the ranch and questioned the women and children in the comforts of their own homes until they determined their homes were unsafe? And if the men were locked up or under protective orders, aren't the children safe in their homes?

Concerned | 1:13 p.m. April 14, 2008

Here is my concern. The government of Texas trampled the constitutional rights of all of these people. The fathers, mothers, and children. But by being concerned about that, somehow I am to be labled in favor of the abuse of the young ones. What in the world is happening. I always thought that you we innocent until proven guilty in this country, but I guess now everyone is guilty by association. To be clear I think people who abuse children need to be punished. But I also think that the government getting the green light to "rescue" kids from their families because receive an "annonomys tip" that there is the potential "they may be abused" is a dangerous place to be.

test | 2:00 p.m. April 14, 2008

etesafd

Johny Fairplay | 2:28 p.m. April 14, 2008

Have to laugh at the people posting here who are suddenly concerned about the constitutional rights of the FLDS child rapists and their enablers. Where have you been the last 7 years as the Bush administration, states and their law enforcement minions systematically undermined your constitutional rights to privacy, unreasonable search and seizures etc. What, hitting a little close to home now that it is an affinity group of yours? Wake up suckas.

open your eyes... | 2:34 p.m. April 14, 2008

Texas isn't at fault here. It's not about religion either. It's about child abuse. It is Illegal no matter what state you're in. If these mothers cared about their kids they wouldn't have stood by letting things happen. But, maybe they became mothers when they were just kids themselves and just don't know how to protect their kids cause they weren't protected, brainwashed maybe but not protected. One ques. I thought FLDS didn't like things of the world, aren't cell phones of the world?

Jamesss | 2:29 p.m. April 14, 2008

What is wrong with a person who thinks the LDS church should foster these children. I certainly donï¿½t want polygamy introduced to my children or daughters. We have a set of standards and morals in our family that we live by, and I am not changing them for any hair brain crazy idea. These comments are getting stranger by the minute. Perhaps if we let polygamists into our homes our daughters can learn how to be concubines to old men. Give me a break! What kind of foolish statement is that? Are we only dealing with idiots on this post or what on here? If the church expected this I would have my kids out of the church promptly!!
I feel sorry for the kids involved, but Iï¿½m not a sympathizer of polygamy and never will be. Morals are morals!!! I am getting tired of the propaganda.

Lynn | 2:50 p.m. April 14, 2008

CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS DO NOT INCLUDE CHILD RAPE, CHILD BEATING, WOMAN BEATING, CHILD WATERBOARDING ETC.

Anonymous | 2:49 p.m. April 14, 2008

The problem here is that no one seems to want to focus on the fact that children were being sexually and physically abused at this ranch. I am appalled that the comments here do not reflect that very important point. Someone has to protect these children from their own families and fellow FLDS members.

Lynn | 2:56 p.m. April 14, 2008

QUOTE:

"People in favor of the authorities are letting allegations of child abuse cloud their judgement. Child abuse has not been proven and is only heresay. The call was bogus and was staged for faked. In America you are innocent until proven guilty. Likewise for texas authorities to take these actions they better back it up with very compelling evidence. However they have none. This is what is called probable cause, it was not sufficiently proven. Thus this raid was unconstitutional."

Child abuse has not been proven? what about the 18 preganant teens under the age of 16?? if thats not child abuse, i dunno what is!

Get the men | 2:56 p.m. April 14, 2008

I agree... they should have taken the men out of the compound not the women and children. But I suppose that would have caused trouble in seeing that the underaged girls who had been married to these sick men were found out too...
I thought polygamy and bigomy were both against the law! Not to mention sodomy.
Something has to be done to stop these young girls from this nightmare...
I would imagine Texas hasn't done everything just right.. but my goodness.... imagine the scope of this investigation....

Formerfalcon | 3:07 p.m. April 14, 2008

If the members of the FLDS were black the ACLU and Jessie Jackson would have been there on the first day.

It makes me wonder if the "anonymous caller" was the author of the book that left the FLDS or someone else that had left that wanted to cause them problems. She would have had knowledge.

The pictures shown don't tell me that these people were locked in a compound, they lived there. I see no problem with that. The FLDS in Utah and Arizona don't live in compounds either - they live in communities.

It amazes me how bitter people that post are - and they know all the answers to all the world's problems. What has happened to knowing all the information and the truth before convicting someone? No wonder people hate Americans - we condemn before knowing the truth.

Catholic priests have abused boys - should all children of a parish be taken into custody until it is determined if any have been abused?

We should be scared to death if this is what has happened in America.

Lawyer at a distance | 3:21 p.m. April 14, 2008

Actually, I'm a bit struck by the overkill involved here, even assuming the allegations are correct. First, there is no allegation that infants, boys, or pre-pubescent girls are being abused or married off before legal age, but that post-pubescent girls below the legal age of consent are being unscrupulously (and possibly unwillingly) turned into teenage brides and mothers. So far I haven't heard any allegation of danger with regard to anyone else under the (bizarre to me) beliefs of the FLDS, and I have seen nothing to indicate that any other child or teenager is in any danger. So, why round up all of the children, when only a subset is at risk? Second, why hold all of them after they've had a physical exam and questioned them to make sure no one is physically or sexually abused? I'm beginning to suspect a desperate need on the part of the powers that be to fish up something to justify what's happened so far, especially when they have seemingly been unable to locate the original whistle blower.

Anonymous | 3:28 p.m. April 14, 2008

Kudos to Texas.

Douglas | 3:26 p.m. April 14, 2008

To Date: 1 Alleged child rapist, apparently not in the state at time crime alleged. 1 Victim, absent from scene. Hundreds of witnesses to alleged crime, but no identification of victim after week of interrogations, no ID on perpetrator. 416 children removed based upon alleged culture of religion, but no specific acts of neglect against specific children (that can be found). State seeks Court to rule without case by case hearing to determine if particular parent is unfit, proving the state's own view that their own Citizens have NO individual rights or freedoms.
The presiding Judge took an oath to defend the Texas and U.S. Constitutions, and such an oath requires defense even though while defending those rights serious injury to others can occur. We all hear of the criminal free on bond who commits some new violent crime. Simple solution, just ignore the constitutional presumption of innocence. Jail from arrest until acquittal, and final appeal. Makes sense, doesn't it. And its working in Texas right now.

observer | 3:38 p.m. April 14, 2008

I personally am in favor of taking away EVERBODY'S cell phone. Maybe then, we could have a little more civility in public places and people would pay more attention to their driving.

jr | 3:43 p.m. April 14, 2008

It is sad to me the people who are so quick to "defend" this compound. I happen to live in Texas and I am hearing my fair share of news about the situation. We are not as backwards as you people make us out to be. In fact, from what I have read above I would say we are more progressive than you because we will actually stand up for our children and pull them out of a situation in which they are absolutely helpless in. You are right when you say that the mothers could have called on their cell phones. However, you have to remember they are the other parent who has also turned a blind eye to the abuse for years upon years...and even encountered it upon herself. Therefore, why would we expect any different from her? Wake up people! I agree in the fact that if the church and the Deseret news has nothing to do with this then why are they continually covering this awful story. Give these children some peace and if Texas truly did do something wrong we will all find out soon enough.

wrz | 3:44 p.m. April 14, 2008

>>What's next? It only gets worse from here...but look at the bright side...at least they did not have tanks driven into their homes nor were they burned to death.<< - Greg

Don't give them any ideas.

Wolf | 3:46 p.m. April 14, 2008

They should do DNA tests on those people: they are probably all related. The whole thing is creepy, and I feel so sorry for the children.

wrz | 3:57 p.m. April 14, 2008

>>Multiply that by 416 + 137, you've got yourself a rather large bill, Texas.<< Miser

You got that right, Miser. Punitive damages for violating constitutional and human rights could be in the millions, or billions. Texas is screwing up royally.

Lynn | 3:51 p.m. April 14, 2008

They didn't keep the kids in the compound due to the fact it took 3 days to track all the kids down that were being hidden by the women, and men! At least thery are now all in plain view and not being hidden in temples, or tunnels!

Freddy | 3:59 p.m. April 14, 2008

**This isn't about religion, this is about having sex with children, it is illegal.** Dave

It's now about incarcerating 400 plus innocent children and their moms and cutting off their first amendment rights.

wrz | 4:16 p.m. April 14, 2008

"Let me get this straight. They can't identify the accuser or the perp. Based on that non-information, from a non-accuser, Texas storms the compound,
and relocates all the women and children, separating the families and not allowing some women to have any contact with their own children. They then smash through the prayer circle to crash their sacred site and tantalize us with suggestions of ritual sex. Then, to make sure there's no contact with the outside (for their own protection, of course), they confiscate all the phones of the non-accused. Meantime, the unidentified dirty old men disappear into the Texas badlands or back to polygamy-friendly Utah and Arizona. This gets worse every day. I'm waiting for the report that it may have been a prank call and Texas has no case -- and has to pay millions in reparations." - Artirome

You ain't seen nothing yet. Boggs, governor of the state of Missouri ordered the Mormons exterminated.

Anonymous | 4:15 p.m. April 14, 2008

It never ceases to amaze me how BIASED this paper really and truely is. I have posted several valid posts in support of Texas, and only 3 out of the 20 for the last five days have been posted. Geeeee I wonder which way this paper is swinging!

Lawyer is spot on | 4:18 p.m. April 14, 2008

What you are seeing is damage control by an agency that has grossly overstepped its bounds and whose employees are beginning to realize they screwed up, big time.

The Texas authorities were hoping that lurid accusations of sexual abuse -- combined with the public's natural antipathy towards polygamists and religious fanatics -- would distract the media and the public long enough for them to justify their case.

Now they're stuck with a massive PR fiasco-in-the-making and starting to panic.

I predict this will not end well. Not quite as bad as the last time Texas tried to intimidate a weird religious cult (Waco), but they'll still end up with a black eye.

meemaw12 | 4:18 p.m. April 14, 2008

I live near San Angelo and am very aware of the living arrangements at Fort Concho. They are clean, neat and spacious barracks. The women and children that are housed there are being treated with respect. They are receiving free medical care. They are being provided free food. The whole problem is that these very women are just as guilty as the men in this cult. They evidently believe that it is ok to take advantage of this underage children as they have been raised to believe this. So these women are making up any stories that they can to get the children and them carried back to their abusers.

Doug S | 4:26 p.m. April 14, 2008

Technically, Doug, it's their fourth, fifth, and sixth amendment rights. But who's counting?

What's next | 4:42 p.m. April 14, 2008

I've been through it; I can give you a few hints.

For each child, there will be a hearing in juvenile court. State appointed "attorney" for the child; none for the parents because "it's not about them". (It still curdles my blood...)

The court commissioner or judge will explain to the parents, "This child needs to be protected. I have adoption papers here, ready to sign, which will mean you will never see your child again. I am ready to do so if you will not cooperate. Now tell me - did you abuse this child? Remember, only answering 'yes' will indicate your willingness to cooperate."

Think about it. How would you answer?

And remember this when we start hearing the news about how many confessions there have been...

Thomas | 4:47 p.m. April 14, 2008

I say we identify each and every religious or ethnic group that has a higher-than-average incidence of adults having sex with minors, and make all their kids wards of the state.

Granted, there'd be large parts of California virtually depopulated of everyone under 18, but nothing ought to stand in the way of keeping the children safe.

Too "Lynn @ 3:51" | 4:51 p.m. April 14, 2008

What kids did they find hidden in tunnels and Temples?

News reports state they found no one in the Temple when they broke in.

I've heard the rumors about hiding kids in tunnels, but I've never heard a report in this case that they found these kids hiding in tunnels.

This is how these rumors get started. All it takes is one commenter like Lynn and off we go with another whole set of un-truths that many people will now consider to be documented facts (becasue they saw them in writing in the DMN comments).

Samuel | 4:57 p.m. April 14, 2008

What's with all the feel sorry for the polygamists on here? And the pictures on DN. Come on folks! This abuse has been going on for decades! i KNOW BECAUSE i am a polygamy escapee. You LDS knuckle cases need to learn more what's really going on inside these sick abusive communes before you think to rescue. Evil is evil.

ROCK | 5:07 p.m. April 14, 2008

Iï¿½m neither LDS nor FLDS, and frankly do not support the opinions of either sect.

In a Republic of laws, the state cannot deprive innocent citizens of liberty, property, or contact with family (or lawyers - their real fear).

Of course carnal knowledge is a crime - no defense offered for unspeakable offenses - but if thatï¿½s the reason for the invasion, why didn't they arrest the MALES??

Have these women and children been "arrested"? If not, why the removal? If so, what's the charge - generally Law Enforcement has 48 hours to charge or release...and if charged, what's the bail? Canï¿½t anyone in Texas who suffered a public education still spell Habeas Corpus?

C'mon, CPS...what are you hiding?

C'mon, Judge...how many lies and distortions are you covering for?

The real issue here is that the state and judiciary are corrupt. Somebody has it in for these people and this was the excuse to destroy them all for being different.

I pray that the news is right, that the ï¿½tipï¿½ was a hoax, and that the resulting lawsuit bankrupts Texas. They deserve it.

Because it was never about the alleged crime - itï¿½s obviously about the ability to destroy.

Tammy | 5:15 p.m. April 14, 2008

sex with a little kid is mean and hateful. It warps the minds of innocent children. To have sex with an old man must be a total horrible nightmare. I won't go into detail about it on here.. SAVE THE CHILDREN!

wrz | 5:17 p.m. April 14, 2008

>>What you don't hear is

"I was married at 15 . . . my husband was 34 years older than me . . . I've been pregnant ever since . . . I lived under a messed up, weirdo cult leader . . . my kids grow up by looking the other way when my husband beats me . . ."<<

They are looking in diapers for cell phones... Are 15 year olds still wearing diapers?

Freddy | 5:14 p.m. April 14, 2008

**The women in "custody" by Texas authorities are free to leave the shelters at any time. This has been made quite clear as well. So many ignorant posters who claim to love freedom have this situation backwards.**

Why would a woman want to leave her toddler baby behind and flee custody?

SueM | 5:23 p.m. April 14, 2008

Seems that many of you just dont get it..
These woman are not HELD against there will
they can leave anytime they wish, they just cannot return.. these children are in protective custody they are not under arrest.. The State could have denied these mothers to come onlng for this ride
but allowed them to accompnay their children..
Those chose to go with them now they are complaining they are victims GIVE ME A BREAK
If the judge finds that there is ground to keep these children they the judge wil act according to LAW.. If they dont have grounds the children will be returned and the state will suffer whatever becomes of them.. I dont care about multiple marriages.. I do however care about young girls possibly being forced into marriage and having children so very young and god help that state if they didnt investigate it.. you all would be screaming at the tops of your lungs if they had proof and did nothing.. Let Texas face what it will
and just pray that these children are cared for and treated properly

Extreme or Necessary? | 6:18 p.m. April 14, 2008

Well, if you people are offended by the governments abuse you do have options. You have the right to bear arms still, right? You also have the right to gather in protest right?
Has the government so frightend you that this method seems extreme?
It is the government who has become extreme and they need to be put in check.

ï¿½All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothingï¿½

Step up good men or just keep talking...

Hung by the Thread | 6:20 p.m. April 14, 2008

Well, I don't believe you take a village to find one person (who Texas and Utah and Colorado officials knew was living in Utah and residing in Utah and Is Still residing in Utah after his interview)

So, .. all of you Officials who claim to be aiding the Texas Rangers.... Knew full well (the falsified phone call... uhh.. to a ??? Domestic Violence Shelter??? yeah, like one of the plygs would call their before calling 911, as IF they would even have a DM Shelter phone number with them.

I hope there are MANY groups that step up and file against the State of Texas for violating religious Constitutionaly protected status.

You wanna see the Constitution hang by a Thread, and, according to the verbatim of Joseph Smith... IF the Constitution is to be saved at all, it Will be by the Elders of this Church.

What? | 6:56 p.m. April 14, 2008

Try not to forget about all the sex abuse going on at that ranch. The media can persuade our thoughts in a different direction on any given day.
The phones should have been taken on the day they removed the children. If a family in you neighborhood was suspected of child abuse, the child would be removed from the home with no contact by the family whatsoever, until it was determined it was ok. These families are lucky that their moms have been allowed to stay with them.

Matt Connelly | 6:59 p.m. April 14, 2008

I'm no lawyer, but unless the media is purposefully excluding information there seems to be plenty of civil rights violations going in this Texas polygamists fiasco. The police ought to be ashamed of the way this is being handled. These people are humans, not animals. Besides, they have what is known in the constitution as civil rights. Please start obeying the law in the way you are handling these so-called dangerous people. Do the misdeeds of a few justify the abuse of an entire people. I think not.

WetbackinTexas | 7:09 p.m. April 14, 2008

I think that they are trying to do what is right for these people who are already emotionally and maybe physically scarred. I think that this sect should have thought and discovered that Texas law is different than that of other states. You think the national government or anyone has the power to sue a Republic which is Texas; Texas could survive on its own without the rest of the U.S. I am a believer in Jesus Christ and the Father God, who I find everything. its not a question on religion but in Texas we believe in taking care of business when people report those kinds of things to our law enforcement. I pray for the people of the world to find salvation in what is right. thats all I have to say.

Moms kicked out | 8:04 p.m. April 14, 2008

Someone please, stop this insanity. These are the MOM's. At least, if you think you have a 'case', arrest the MEN.

I hope the state of texas has to seriously raise taxes, in order to pay for this one.

Due Process? | 8:13 p.m. April 14, 2008

It seems many of the people making comments here want to simply ignore what our constitution requires because they are disgusted by the FLDS practice of polygamy and underage marriage. While Americans are right be outraged and angry about any sexual or physical abuse of children, they should still be extremely careful that legal protections are equally applied. "Equal justice under the law" is a sacred and fundamental ideal that underpins all of our freedoms. If we start to become selective about this group or that situation, we are, as a nation, stepping onto a very slippery slope.

Should we look forward to the day when the government is so zealous about child sex abuse that they go into the inner city and pull all the children in a six block area because some are deemed "at risk" because of one phone call? Wholesale incarceration of almost an entire community is an atrocity and will in the long run be repudiated by the American people. At least I hope it will.

Will we extend constitutional protections to common murderers but not to an unpopular religious sect? I always thought the law applied to individuals, not communities.

California | 9:05 p.m. April 14, 2008

I just have to weigh in on this. I was born in SLC but left Utah as a baby. I have been LDS but not now. I find it really sad that anyone would find it ok for a 16 yr old girl to have 4 kids??? They are saying there are 13, 14, 15 yr old pregnant girls. Believe me when I say these girls did not get pregnant from a teenage boy. They were sexually assaulted in the "temple" in a bed specifically there for the "wedding night" when these perverts "marry" these children. How disgusting that you all think this is anything less than sexual abuse of children! Are you really that ignorant? Joseph Smith did the same thing ( child brides) so maybe your attorney general and some of the posters here are just reaching back to your "roots" in support of this behavior. I say good for Texas for protecting these children.

California | 9:08 p.m. April 14, 2008

I say have the baby daddies come claim their kids. Then have the welfare dept standing by to collect child support. These people have perverted the LDS religion. Why you people in Utah would support that perversion is beyond me.

Ronald A. Young | 9:20 p.m. April 14, 2008

I am not all that pleased with the way the Texas Police went in, but I am so glad that they did. It seemed to be organized and well planned. Not a Shot was fired and No One was killed. I know that the Victims will not think that they where Rescued but they where. Those that think that Texas CPS should be sued are wrong. Sued for what?

These girls where being Raped and given into Marriage (that is of question as the marriages are not legal) It is against State and Federal law to have more then 1 wife, spiritual or not. The Law Trumps Religion, Declaration 1 and 3 statements by Wilford Woodruff. Also Article of Faith #12.

These males where so called Marrying and then Raping girls as young as 13 or 14. These girls lost both their Virtue and their Childhood. The idea being not to love and cherish and care for them. But to impregnate them by force. This was not Marital Sex this was Rape sometimes with Violence. The Mothers sometimes took part or at least did nothing. As long as he is raping her, he is not raping me.

Gena | 9:42 p.m. April 14, 2008

NOBODY on this thread has supported the sexual abuse of minors. Without exception, it has been stated that if sexual abuse or other child abuse has occurred, it should be prosecuted, so quit setting up that straw man.

What has been stated is that there is not adequate proof that all of these children have been abused, that probable cause has not been established or proven, that the FLDS people are being tried by rumor and innuendo in the media in stories worthy of the National Enquirer, and that the victims are being punished rather than the supposed perpetrators. Please quit confusing a concern for protection of fundamental constitutional rights with support for child abuse. Everyone on this thread wants the children to be safe - they disagree that this is the way to go about achieving that goal.

awesomeron | 9:43 p.m. April 14, 2008

To: Moms Kicked Out. The so called Moms are under the control of the Males. They did not protect their Daughters. They can't just arrest the Males, they have to have proof they did something. Which means people are going to half to talk if not by talking then by exam. A lot of things are going to have to be looked into. Discoveries made and actions taken. Wrongs righted and People put in Jail. Services given, Truth told, Books Written and Movies made. Perhaps lives where saved. Perhaps at some point in the future lives can be led that are mostly normal.

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