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First look: Quiet is unnerving as FLDS members seek answers

Published: Sunday, April 13 2008 1:02 a.m. MDT

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For Nancy, Monica and Shannon

Tell it to the judge!!!

Stop complaining

This just is creating more martyrdom with some of the religious nuts who think these people were targeted. The law enforcement offices there had a good relationship with the compound it was reported.
It was the phone calls received and then the affidavit of a rape allegation and abuse that led them to get a warrant for search.
The kids and mothers are innocent, I'll agree with that. But their leaders are not.
Don't worry; all you people who think that the goverment went too far will feel justified when it turns out that none of the victims turn on their
"leaders" because they are too afraid.

Mark

These people are human beings not some sub-human species. They may belong to a "different" kind of religion, but they are still human and need to be treated with respect.

Re: Stright facts

Seizure and kidnapping?

If you think that is what CPS does when they remove children from potentially abusive environments, then you scare me. However this situation went down, it is about making sure that the kids are safe in their religious commune before returning them to their parents. All children have a constitutional right to be safe and free from abuse and neglect. Parents cant abdicate their responsibility to their children and whether you like it or not, the government is required to remove children and investigate complaints of alleged abuse or neglect on their behalf.

Get some air.

Looks like every government conspiracy, religious nut WACKO in the world came out of the woodwork to post today.

Joyce

DNA will prove who the mother's and father's are.
Then charges can be filed.
Rape is rape I don't care who or where you are.

Worried about police power

If a judge thought that guns were harmful and considered a potential for abuse - does that give the courts and police the right to go into the homes of everyone they think "might" have a gun and take the children from them "for their protection". What type of "counseling" would their be to make sure the children could transition away from the harmful and evil side of guns?

David

I will treat the FLDS adults with respect when they stop abusing their sons and daughters. When the FLDS community allows other members to rape children, then they too are guilty. The big picture is about removing children from homes that ALLOW for child rape not about pretended religious freedom since the religious freedom would be in allowing old men to have sex with young girls....that remains child rape. Boo hoo families are being separated...tough. Again folks, it's about child abuse and child sexual abuse. Don't forget that when the FLDS mothers cry. How much protest was made by those SAME MOTHERS as 13 year olds were "taken" on the "holy temple bed" immediately following marriage? How quickly were those same mothers to let the "church authorities" know that there daughters were now "women?" Sorry, I feel no sympathy for crocodile tears considering the situation.

poorly thought out

My problem with this raidsince the beginningis how poorly thought out it appears to have been. There are likely cases of abuse going on, and perhaps a whole lot of them. If the state wanted to take down the FLDS faith, the best way to do it is to destroy their credibility and systematically demonstrate systematic abuse. Instead, they've raided the compound, taken the abused (instead of the accused) and sequestered them from their loved ones. Now, the state is in a very defensive mode and has to prove everyone's guilt all at one.
Instead, they could have identified a single case of abuse. Then another, then another. After several such cases came into the public eye, the entire public would be on the State's side. We are, after all, a national of precedence.
All they have done is to create a martyred group that they cannot possibly fend off all at once, and to solidify any beliefs--misconceived or otherwise--that these folks had about the 'outside' world.
This was just stupid.

Mitoshi

Seems to me that Texas authorities had some reason to look into the situation at the fundamentalist ranch. It was handled very wrongly however. In the process of protecting one persons rights they violated a great many other person's rights. Was the raid for the greater good? No! The raid was fashioned as not to have another Waco incident. Texas has a history of dealing with reclusive religions in a "Jack Boot" style. It will happen again I'll bet. The role of law is to protect the indiviual from the rest of us. In doing so the law can not violate the rights of others. This business is tragic and wrong. Texas should have investigated the reason for the aledged call for help by going to the ranch with search warrent. I'm sure the sheriff doesn't follow up anonymous phone calls from other places in his jurisdiction with such zeal and back up. This whole mess could have been a voined with some thought.

Re: David and Huh?

To David--

Your point is exactly the same as mine. Religion or no religion, tears or no tears, bias or no bias, this is abuse. Plain, outright abuse.

What most people tend to whine, then, is "well, other people abuse girls toooooo . . ."

So that must make the FLDS abuse A-OK.

What's wrong with the FLDS is that they teach that this is NORMAL (like David said). It is NORMAL there for a husband to beat up his wife.


To Huh?--

Okay. I get it. So being "spiritually" married makes it all okay.

GARBAGE!

I can't believe you are trying to snake your way out of the truth like this.
-------
polygamy [puh-lig-uh-mee]

noun 1. the practice or condition of having more than one spouse, esp. wife, at one time.
-------
Does it say *by the laws of the state???*

Jessejames

Wow! Regardless of what we all might think of polygamy, to hear this mother of five talk about her loss is heart wrenching. The affects of this will affect us all. Wow! Look at the power we've given Child Protective Services. Big Government. Let's give em more power more money. Good work Law Enforcement. Yet another example of poorly executed judgement on the part of our elected officials. Government knows best. The state of Texas is treating their citizens like chattel. Unbelievable.

To Huh:

Having sex with another besides your legal lawful wife and telling someone about it and having children by another woman is called, under the law "common law" marriage. You are married to more than one person. I called it adultery. What you called it not a legal description. OH, year, it's just sex. Reality eludes you.

Jessejames

David:

Remember the proverbial "cloak of charity". Now, would be a great time excerise the use of it. I understand your frustration, but maybe you could just hang back awhile and let this situation work out and see who violated whom.

My 2 cents

We all know these women wouldn't be talking without the express permission of the higher-ups. It's interesting to note the stone-deaf silence coming from the men. It shows what cowards the male predators really are. In the long run, I hope these kids (especially all of the pregnant teens who have been raped) are able to lead happy, normal lives away from the mind control and abuse.

Roger

"Women and Children first!" Is not meant to cause pain, and seperate loved ones in this age of awareness and care. This Texas case is a throw-back historically to when "women and cildren" had no rights. We are witness to the devolution of justice.

It is much easier to round-up the weak and defenseless and bully them into submission. If there are victims here, it IS the women & children. If there are victimizers, it IS the men!

"GET THE MEN!!" Incarcerate them, for safe-keeping, if they are a danger and a threat to their community's defenseless members.

Then exercise "due process". That's the way in any country that protects its citizens from abuse. We are all too familiar with countries that run counter to those standards. Now in America? So very sad.

Why are they still there?

If these women love their children SO much, why are they not with them? Other women left with the children.

No one would take my children with out me going too.... and from my understanding there are many women who went with their chilren...

Anonymous

Kudos to Texas.

ToJesseJames

There is no need for a "cloak of charity" when we already have a long track record. We already know that within the FLDS community men marry underage women. How do we know this? We have witnesses/victims that have told us so. We also have young women with multiple children. We have "lost boys" that have been kicked out of the community and struggle to survive along with their eye witness accounts. Why were they kicked out? Because they were competition for females. The truths have already been laid out with other names of other victims. We also know that incest occurs as a standard course, so you may want to look up fumerase deficiency to get you up to speed. Adultery, whether church sanctioned or not, is not the issue. The issue at hand is child abuse and child sexual abuse, again recent history shows us that this is not only likely but probable.
Now look at your bible and point to the first polygamist...oh a murderer. Then we have Abraham with Hagar and still suffer the trouble that union caused.
Again it is about crimes that are consistent with the group.

john b

the law says CPS has to investegate child abuse by taking the children from the parents until they are sure the children will be safe in the home .sence nether the children or the mothers would say who the children belonged to and they knew that some of them had been abused by law they had to take all of them. and if the mothers let their 13yr old girls be forceed into mariage and yet as the report said had contact with the outside world they are as guilty as the men in the site of justus this probley wont be printed because it dont agree with most posts here

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