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First look: Quiet is unnerving as FLDS members seek answers

Published: Sunday, April 13 2008 1:02 a.m. MDT

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What Rights?

I would like 2 point out The Fourth Amendment "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." AMERICA is FAILING and will 4ever go down hill If we as a people don't stand up for our Constitutional Rights...Our Forefathers fought lived and died 4 our freedom. Is this how we repay them?...

Tell The Truth

CL what proof do you have that more than 1 or 2 cases of what you call underaged is happening? As I'm aware it wasn't even illegal in that state until Congress pushed a law through specifically targeting this group. I though Congress was to pass no law like that. You are the ones that are brainwashed to believe all that the media tells. Or all that people with less than pure motives express. I am chagrined to see so many people pass judgment here, and want to take these precious pure children and indoctrinate them in the "freedom" of the world this day. Let's teach them that premarital sex is ok, that not covering your body is a expression of freedom, that dirty old men go everywhere in this world to fulfill their filthy desires. Let's pull all the children out of the slums in NY, Detroit, and on top of that the child trafficking that is happening all over the globe to fulfill men's sickness. You are all hypocrites, and know full well that this boils down to their religion and their beliefs. Keep spouting all your perceived wrongs with this group and manifest your own hearts.

Tell the Truth

What Rights!!

Smack on comment. America doesn't care, they have lost their rights so far now in the name of protection, and safety that before they know it, they will have none left and our Once Great Country will be a shell of itself, and we will be subject to greater tyranny than could be thought possible. I am moving from this nation.

loveathome

What I don't understand is why the FLDS were so secretive about their lifestyle? If it was so wholesome and God-fearing and honest and wonderful, why not just live in mainstream society and just practice your religion like the rest of the Christians do? Maybe because it wasn't?! ... well, duh...

Susan

**I'm simply amazed at how one news article has so drastically altered people's stated opinions from what y'all were saying yesterday.**

It is amazing what happens when the truth becomes known.

CL

This is where the social imperative of protecting the young and the vulnerable collides with the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.
There are laws in that state about underage marriage whether you like it or not. Look it up.
Go on and on about all the other abuses in the world, but because this is associated with "religion" it is more palatable to you?
I'm for equal opportunity in going after abusers, whether they are religious nuts or anything else.
That's not hypocrisy. Saying that is about their religious beliefs alone is hypocrisy. Victims are often voiceless and that's part of the problem with all types of abuse cases. Don't try to tell me it's about religion only. It's not.

camille

i feel sorry for the mothers - most of them have been probably abused when they were younger so they dont know any better - i dont know whether they are right or wrong - but in my country kids are abused all the time - and if the athorities are told of such an incident the man is immediatly removed from the situation... and charged... too much of this has been going on and while i disagree with the removal of so many children, i believe they were right to act so swiftly ...children are not chattels - to be used and treated like so much garbage. I pray for them and ask God that the truth come to light - if these women know that their children have been hurt then now is the time to stand up and fight for these kids... dont let the same be done to them... Please..

Re: What Rights?

How do YOU know that their 4th amendment rights were violated? Were YOU there? I believe this question will be addressed in court on Thursday. My understanding is that while the authorities were there LEGALLY to search for a caller, they found numerous underage pregnant and teen mothers. Do you really want the police to ignore calls for help, even if it turns out the call was bogus? Would you expect the police to turn a blind eye to violations of the law that they actually witness?

Broadening the scope of the search warrant for evidence and removing all the children did not occur until AFTER officers had found 18 underage girls who were either pregnant or had recently given birtha clear violation of statutory rape laws. It was in the news.

Get your facts straight and educate yourself on State and Federal laws, especially those involving search and seizure.

Hal

===What I don't understand is why the FLDS were so secretive about their lifestyle?===

My guess is that they wanted to live apart so as not have their children influenced by the immoral world that we see around us.

===If it was so wholesome and God-fearing and honest and wonderful, why not just live in mainstream society and just practice your religion like the rest of the Christians do?===

Maybe for the same reason the Amish, Mennonites, etc., want to live apart.

Nation of Laws

Use your IQ not your emotion please. Please think with your head not with your heart. If anyone knows what the constitution says, knows that this search was illegal, as was the subsequent removal of these children.

We are a nation of laws. And despite what you may want, those laws are often set up to protect the accused. Our constitution was written, not for the people, but in order to keep the government at bay, to keep the government from having too much power over the people. Yes, they practice polygamy, which is in violation of our laws. But last time I checked in the constitution, the supreme law of this land, never says a word about polygamy or the practice thereof. But it does setup grounds for lawful searches and rights of the government.

Look it up

"This is where the social imperative of protecting the young and the vulnerable collides with the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion.
There are laws in that state about underage marriage whether you like it or not. Look it up."

Marriage age in Texas once was 14. That's one reason why FLDS move there. Then Texas upped it to 16. Fourteen was apparently OK for Texans but not for FLDS.

Get the facts

Agree with the poster at 12:25.
It's about the law to some of the stupid people who think it's about religion only.
Agree with CL; all abuse is wrong, whether under the "religious" guise or not.

Authorities investigated based upon a legal search. If there were mistakes, then let the legal system work. And yeah, before you start with your rantings, there are laws there specific to underage marriage and living in a "religious" compound does not exempt people from obeying those laws.


David

Apparently many of you feel that we should just have let the FLDS alone despite the fact the fact that 16 year old GIRLS in the community have 2 or more children by 50 year old husbands. "Oh boo hoo we should leave these people alone and sue the State of Texas." I disagree. These babies have been taught that sexual abuse is NORMAL. Getting them off the compound gives them the opportunity to feel safer and possibly talk which they would not do if they REMAINED on site.

Apparently you all also forget that 16 year old boys are kicked out of the group as competition for females. You see a few tears and forget the big picture. The FLDS are about abuse and the cycle needs to be changed. This action was the start of that change unless you cry to leave the abusers alone which is what it does sound like.

Stright facts

>>Get your facts straight and educate yourself on State and Federal laws, especially those involving search and seizure.<<

It seems they "seized" the wrong people. They seized innocent kids and some of their mothers. That seems like kidnapping, and a violation of human rights. Go figure.

So?

What the age used to be is irrelavant.
It is 16 and they are breaking the law!!
Stupid.
Why do they move there? Maybe because UTAH didn't want them and would go after them.

Please...

Stop whining!
These people are stupid sheep who were following a doctrine that was renounced by the mainstream church. And marrying girls who are underage is against the law there, no matter how much you don't like it. Don't excuse it and act like the leaders of this sect are not horrible men.

Huh?

"Yes, they practice polygamy, which is in violation of our laws."

Polygamy is being MARRIED to more than one person at a time. If these people were "married" spiritually (not by the laws of the state) in their temple, were they practicing polygamy? I think not. They were merely having sex with more than one person (not their spouse) at a time... Something you see in Hollywood and elsewhere all the time. One professional b-ball player reportedly has 9 kids with 8 different women. Go figure.

Pity her?

Just a question for the mothers in the article: Would you allow these innocent children, who cling so piteously to your skirts now, to marry at age 14? Would you allow a man, 50 years old or so, to marry your teenage daughter and take her from you then? Would you attend her marriage ceremony and convince her not to run away? If you were married at a young age and you allow your daughter to be forced into that lifestyle because YOU believe it is right, how are you being a good parent? Mothers in this plight are to be pitied, but if they are preparing their daughters to follow in their footsteps, it seems abusive to me.

Don

As Hal pointed out,that as the Amish and Mennonites
desire to live peaceful, quiet and dignified lives,
can we not allow them to do so. Must we compel all
to some "National Standard" of conformity?
Just food for thought,all of us might consider reading about "Perpetua", Roman History, 203 A.D.
city of Carthage.There is an interesting parallel with today. The story is very moving. Again follow the Constitution, it is amazing how well it works,
when it is followed. And if a true crime exists, then address that issue and that individual. But don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Freedom

These kids have been kidnapped. Back in 1953 LeRoy Johnson made a promise to find every child after the state of Arizona kidnapped them. He fought the state in court to prevent the kids from getting addopted out. He defended the Navajo Nation at the same time because the State would steel their children away and adopt them out without permission of the parents. Roy Johnson helped to stop that. Roy related an incident about meeting the Chief of the Navajo near Paige Utah. The chief thanked him and promised to help the people of Short creek with anything they needed. Maybe it's time to call in the great Navajo nation to help to free these kids.

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