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Fort Concho: Tight quarters, fear taking toll on moms, children; exclusive phone interview
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kb | 1:23 a.m. April 13, 2008
Don't you think this is all being handled a little poorly. The Children
and women need protected, but humanity and wisdom should be used were ever
possible.
Bill | 1:42 a.m. April 13, 2008
This is going to end badly.
Californian | 5:04 a.m. April 13, 2008
Leave these people alone. If there is proof of child abuse in individual cases,
handle it. Do not persecute all these people. All of us who are religious
believe things others may disagree with, and I would want others to keep their
noses out of it. Apparently the mothers can come and go so if they didn't
like the situation they would not have to return. They could have a custody
hearing on an individual basis if there is dispute between the parents over any
child a parent wants to remove from the compound.
Comments continue below
St. George | 5:50 a.m. April 13, 2008
Disgusting what the State can do. This is a crime and the Judge and the CPS
should be held accountable for their actions.
Just as the men who are marrying child brides, hopefully, the new FLDS profit will wake up and see this was all caused by not letting the girls turn 18 before marrying them.
Still two wrongs dont make a right, and these children and mothers need to be set free.
Just as the men who are marrying child brides, hopefully, the new FLDS profit will wake up and see this was all caused by not letting the girls turn 18 before marrying them.
Still two wrongs dont make a right, and these children and mothers need to be set free.
Robert from NC | 6:07 a.m. April 13, 2008
The old movie is been played over and over again. Take one problem, add
government, and the result is chaos. These government stooges are making a
problem worse. If poligamy is wrong, how about shacking up? Why doesn't the
government go after these people too? The reason is that it is an overwhelming
problem and a poor use for the taxpayers money.
This crazy cult is doing many things wrong and the news media is pointing it out to the world. Other crazy cults, like snake handlers and peyote smokers are also in the wrong. It is not the duty of the government to go after every religious deviant.
This group who call themselves "Fundamental" Latter Day Saints act as if they had some claim to or a real reason to call themselves LDS. THEY DON'T! The real LDS Church is a fine, upstanding, honest, decent, truthful organization which is attempting to spread the word of God and help its members prepare for an eternity with their creator. The FLDS group is a bunch of people practicing a deviant lifestyle while pretending to believe in God. May they mend their ways and quit the poligamy.
This crazy cult is doing many things wrong and the news media is pointing it out to the world. Other crazy cults, like snake handlers and peyote smokers are also in the wrong. It is not the duty of the government to go after every religious deviant.
This group who call themselves "Fundamental" Latter Day Saints act as if they had some claim to or a real reason to call themselves LDS. THEY DON'T! The real LDS Church is a fine, upstanding, honest, decent, truthful organization which is attempting to spread the word of God and help its members prepare for an eternity with their creator. The FLDS group is a bunch of people practicing a deviant lifestyle while pretending to believe in God. May they mend their ways and quit the poligamy.
Redlog | 7:01 a.m. April 13, 2008
The long term solution to the poligamy problem is simple.
Let them cohabit as they will(people do that anyway)
but limit the number of children a male, breaking the law and living in poligamy is entitled to create...say a resonable number, maybe six.
After he has reached his quota,
THEN HE SHOULD BE STERILIZED!
Let them cohabit as they will(people do that anyway)
but limit the number of children a male, breaking the law and living in poligamy is entitled to create...say a resonable number, maybe six.
After he has reached his quota,
THEN HE SHOULD BE STERILIZED!
Timj | 7:01 a.m. April 13, 2008
Texas is going to get sued, big time...
DAve | 7:35 a.m. April 13, 2008
We will probably never know if these children were being abused. But, we know
they are being abused now.
Blaine | 7:43 a.m. April 13, 2008
"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a
Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not
a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one
left to speak out for me." -- Pastor Martin Niem�ller
DeLaval Milker | 8:26 a.m. April 13, 2008
They're not after the communists or trade unionists here. They're
after the child molesters, a process that may involve rescuing their victims.
Against this, I will not speak out.
Of course this process is going to be traumatic. The tragedy increases exponentially the longer one of these compound cults is allowed to enslave the minds and bodies of the 'faithful'.
The separation and upset are necessary but unpleasant things. These people have been captive all their lives. Denied educcation and taught fear of the outside, it's not surprising that they will have some trouble adjusting.
Of course this process is going to be traumatic. The tragedy increases exponentially the longer one of these compound cults is allowed to enslave the minds and bodies of the 'faithful'.
The separation and upset are necessary but unpleasant things. These people have been captive all their lives. Denied educcation and taught fear of the outside, it's not surprising that they will have some trouble adjusting.
The Texan | 8:42 a.m. April 13, 2008
When the authorities came, identify yourself, give a valid birth certificate and
a named father. No problem.
Stand there and refuse to answer questions and watch the authorities take them away.
What don't you understand about who caused the problem?
And now it's crowded? Why is the state spending $25,000 to $30,000 a day to take care of you if all you do is complain. Perhaps they should send you the bill. All the bills, lawyers, court costs, etc. But you have the right to remain silent and all that brings. Enjoy, you brought this on yourself.
You're right Blaine, no one speaks for you and these people provided their own lack of words to cause even greater problems.
Stand there and refuse to answer questions and watch the authorities take them away.
What don't you understand about who caused the problem?
And now it's crowded? Why is the state spending $25,000 to $30,000 a day to take care of you if all you do is complain. Perhaps they should send you the bill. All the bills, lawyers, court costs, etc. But you have the right to remain silent and all that brings. Enjoy, you brought this on yourself.
You're right Blaine, no one speaks for you and these people provided their own lack of words to cause even greater problems.
CPS scare tactics | 9:19 a.m. April 13, 2008
I never heard an entire community being uprooted to protect one accuser of
abuse.
These children don't have the same understanding of who they are in relation to families, because they tend to raise them with many different mothers and sometimes fathers. They probably do know which is a biological parent, but most little kids I know wouldn't know what I was asking if I wanted to know who their biological dad was.
The state authorities of Texas should not be touching and examining those children without parental consent. They are violating those kids and making a mockery of what CPS stands for. CPS is to protect kids, not cause more damage to them and this raid is going to impact all those kids for decades.
These children don't have the same understanding of who they are in relation to families, because they tend to raise them with many different mothers and sometimes fathers. They probably do know which is a biological parent, but most little kids I know wouldn't know what I was asking if I wanted to know who their biological dad was.
The state authorities of Texas should not be touching and examining those children without parental consent. They are violating those kids and making a mockery of what CPS stands for. CPS is to protect kids, not cause more damage to them and this raid is going to impact all those kids for decades.
Thomas | 9:24 a.m. April 13, 2008
Now we know why they wont let the media talk to their prisoners
Anonymous | 9:51 a.m. April 13, 2008
The herd mentality here is what is wrong. They have suspected abuse and I
don't doubt there is some and the actual abuse should be prosecuted. And
like every society it will depend on the victims being brave enough and feeling
safe enough to prosecute it.
But this is not the American way to deal with it. It's crazy and abusive to these women and children who have done nothing wrong themselves. Meanwhile, where are the "abusers"? - oh yeah, they are still free. After the women and children have been treated this way by "child protective services" and police - how likely are they to call for help - ever?
I have seen first-hand abuse of power in Utah's Child Protection agency and frankly, I don't trust them. There is a place for this service but they believe they know best for every family (most workers barely out of school and inexperienced). They use state-given power in the name of child welfare, knowing their superiors will support even the bad caseworker (to protect the agency and retain power). It's disgraceful what they do in the name of caring and protection. I shudder at the next raid in protection's name.
But this is not the American way to deal with it. It's crazy and abusive to these women and children who have done nothing wrong themselves. Meanwhile, where are the "abusers"? - oh yeah, they are still free. After the women and children have been treated this way by "child protective services" and police - how likely are they to call for help - ever?
I have seen first-hand abuse of power in Utah's Child Protection agency and frankly, I don't trust them. There is a place for this service but they believe they know best for every family (most workers barely out of school and inexperienced). They use state-given power in the name of child welfare, knowing their superiors will support even the bad caseworker (to protect the agency and retain power). It's disgraceful what they do in the name of caring and protection. I shudder at the next raid in protection's name.
Tragedy | 10:10 a.m. April 13, 2008
This is a tragedy perptrated by a hoax. The phone call that started it all has
been shown to be a ruse to allow authorities to take the children. Where is due
process in all of this? Or the kindness and humanity one would expect from an
agency which believes it is protecting children. Sadly, this will solve nothing
and will result in many of those children and adults suffering PTSD. Everything
is bigger in TX, especially the mistakes.
Thomas | 10:16 a.m. April 13, 2008
I carry no brief for child-molesting polygamists, but unless those women
contacting the News are exaggerating, it sounds like some of the case workers
are typical arrogant bureaucratic types, like at the DMV or public school
administrators.
There is no greater disparity between professional quality and personal self-perception than among government workers.
There is no greater disparity between professional quality and personal self-perception than among government workers.
Carolyn | 10:22 a.m. April 13, 2008
I salute Texas CPS for rescuing these children and their mothers. Polygamy is
against United States law as far as I know. It should have been firmly stopped
and practitioners arrested in Utah and other states when the practice was
outlawed in 1890. It's scary what can be tolerated and practiced in the
name of religion.
Mark | 10:26 a.m. April 13, 2008
Kids will always cry. They will even cry for those who abuse them. These
children are being handled the best way they can be for such a large group. The
children need to know security, and that they ARE NOT GOING to be used for a
breeding farm. Time for a change.
To: Carolyn | 10:34 a.m. April 13, 2008
Why the outcry for the children of illegal immigrants and the demand for a
humane solution that protects the innocent children of circumstance but no such
outcry for the protection of these 419 children carried away from their homes by
a government that apprears to know better?
To: The Texan | 11:09 a.m. April 13, 2008
So they didn't show their papers and that's cause enough to arrest the
children, oh excuse me, put them in "protective" custody? No other
evidence needed?
What is Texas? A police state?
What is Texas? A police state?
Tex Cougarguard | 12:13 p.m. April 13, 2008
People - let the legal system work here in Texas. There are many facts not yet
made public. The FLDS are being well cared for and are not in danger of further
abuse. Remember, polygamy is illegal in TX and, as opposed to Utah, we like to
enforce the laws of the land.
What Rights? | 12:17 p.m. April 13, 2008
I would like 2 point out The Fourth Amendment "The right of the people to
be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable
searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but
upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly
describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be
seized." AMERICA is FAILING and will 4ever go down hill If we as a people
don't stand up for our Constitutional Rights...Our Forefathers fought lived
and died 4 our freedom. Is this how we repay them?...
BDB | 12:29 p.m. April 13, 2008
Tex, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the polygamous
marriages were performed by the church, without any kind of legal state
recognition. That being the case, how can they prosecute them for polygamy when
they're not legally married? You can't prosecute Hugh Hefner for his
essentially polygamous relationships, why would they be able to do that here?
Texas is apparently a state where religious persecution is acceptable, even when
it means a trampling of constitutional rights.
laura | 1:13 p.m. April 13, 2008
if they were truly protecting the children and intended for them to remain with
their mothers, they would have removed the MEN instead. Or in the very least,
they'd allow the other mothers access to their children. Even if it was
during a set visiting hours.
Even my foster sisters were allowed to visit with their abusive biological parents before they lost their parental rights.
Even my foster sisters were allowed to visit with their abusive biological parents before they lost their parental rights.
Joyce | 1:55 p.m. April 13, 2008
These women are not allowed to do anything on their own without the men telling
her what to do.
So, with that in mind.
These women were well trained as to what to say to the reporters. The men know how to get sympathy from the public is to use women and children as their weapons.
I have no symathy for these women.
So, with that in mind.
These women were well trained as to what to say to the reporters. The men know how to get sympathy from the public is to use women and children as their weapons.
I have no symathy for these women.
David | 2:41 p.m. April 13, 2008
Joyce has a point. Many of these women are victims as well and now accomplices
to any injustices performed on the children around them. The children are going
to cry, because they are away from what they know (even if it is abusive). Now
I find it hard to believe all these families had abuse happening. But at the
same time, I'm sure we don't have the full story. The fact that there
may have been many underage children pregnant or with babies, has to be
investigated, even if the initial warrant for the 16 year old was fake. It
wouldn't have been that bad if these women weren't supporting a crime.
But if one crime were committed, and no person would speak on it at all, it
shows as being part of a problem, instead of an innocent bystander. Truthfully,
I'm not sure what to think. Are the Texas rangers bigots throwing down on
a different religion? Or are the Rangers busting up a large brothel? Hopefully
the truth comes out. If the Rangers are to blame, firings and compensation. If
the FLDS, the saving of children.
To: The Texan | 2:43 p.m. April 13, 2008
A DPS trooper asks you who the children with you are and you say nothing. And
the trooper is supposed to walk away at that point? You just declared the child
an orphan and the DPS has the legal right to take them from you and find the
legal parents. What don't you understand about that? Staying silent under
these circumstances makes it much, much worse.
The evidence is no one claimed the child as theirs. Or is that too obvious? The child is put in protective custody. Not your version of that.
Don't mess with Texas. It's even printed on the garbage cans down here. We have DPS troopers down here, good people. If this were a police state the FLDS would never have been here in the first place.
This is an abuse investigation and thus far the FLDS have pushed it in the direction it is going. They're the problem, not the authorities. Stop making things up. How old are you anyway?
The evidence is no one claimed the child as theirs. Or is that too obvious? The child is put in protective custody. Not your version of that.
Don't mess with Texas. It's even printed on the garbage cans down here. We have DPS troopers down here, good people. If this were a police state the FLDS would never have been here in the first place.
This is an abuse investigation and thus far the FLDS have pushed it in the direction it is going. They're the problem, not the authorities. Stop making things up. How old are you anyway?
Chris | 3:16 p.m. April 13, 2008
Polygamy is illegal - the Texas authorities finally cracked down on it. This
should have been taken care of years ago when the polygamists first came (before
they proliferated/grew in numbers). Bottom line though, is this is NOT a
polygamy issue - Warren Jeffs is a convicted child molester and he's the
"prophet" and leader of this group. He sets the example and the men
follow it. Poor misguided people. Is bad that authorities in Arizona and
Colorado have allowed this polygamy/pedophile group to exist so long in their
states - it should have been taken care of when it was a small problem.
I'm glad the situation has finally come out in the open.
Lilathe | 3:22 p.m. April 13, 2008
They took the cell phones away from the prisoners too. Sounds just like what
they are accusing the FLDS of doesn't it? Cut off all contact with
"outsiders" so that your CPS form of brainwashing, scare tactics and
physical sexual assauts couched as "exams" can work in privacy?
Some of the women did interviews via cell phones, so the "advocates" of the children asked a judge to order the removal of cell phones so that the prisoners could not be contaminated by "outsiders".
CPS is evil and out of control. Children suffer much more physical and sexual abuse once they are taken into CPS "protection". Do some research, look at the statistics of abused children in CPS care --MUCH MUCH higher than in normal population.
Some of the women did interviews via cell phones, so the "advocates" of the children asked a judge to order the removal of cell phones so that the prisoners could not be contaminated by "outsiders".
CPS is evil and out of control. Children suffer much more physical and sexual abuse once they are taken into CPS "protection". Do some research, look at the statistics of abused children in CPS care --MUCH MUCH higher than in normal population.
To: The Texan : 2:43 | 3:55 p.m. April 13, 2008
I'm old enough to remember when the Constitution actually meant something
and the government required evidence before taking anyone into custody. I guess
rights and due process don't mean anything to Texans anymore.
I'm all for prosecuting child abusers, but the fact that Texas probably violated the Constitutional rights of ALL of the FLDS members at the ranch means that any case brought against the few real abusers probably won't hold up in court.
I'm all for prosecuting child abusers, but the fact that Texas probably violated the Constitutional rights of ALL of the FLDS members at the ranch means that any case brought against the few real abusers probably won't hold up in court.
the other texan | 4:40 p.m. April 13, 2008
Religion is not an excuse for child abuse. If you can't see the problem
with under aged children being forced into sexual relationships you also have a
problem. These poor woman are so indoctrinated and brainwashed that they
can't see that the authorities are attempting to help them.
the Ogre | 5:07 p.m. April 13, 2008
"People - let the legal system work here in Texas. There are many facts not
yet made public. The FLDS are being well cared for and are not in danger of
further abuse. Remember, polygamy is illegal in TX and, as opposed to Utah, we
like to enforce the laws of the land."
I agree there are many facts not yet known, but I do not think the FLDS are being cared for well. The overcrowding is wrong. If the state only had this to accommodate these people, then they should have waited until they had the facilities to support their ill-planned and ill-conceived raid.
I wonder if they are being protected with state sponsored abuse like the destruction of families.
The final straw is enforcement of the law. This is farcical to say regarding a state that has to largest death-row in the nation. Yes, Texas likes to enforce laws, but the heavy-handedness it manages crime is no less wrong. This is the state where preemptive strike George governed. Not a lot of thought coming from our dear pres and none from the state that bred him.
I agree there are many facts not yet known, but I do not think the FLDS are being cared for well. The overcrowding is wrong. If the state only had this to accommodate these people, then they should have waited until they had the facilities to support their ill-planned and ill-conceived raid.
I wonder if they are being protected with state sponsored abuse like the destruction of families.
The final straw is enforcement of the law. This is farcical to say regarding a state that has to largest death-row in the nation. Yes, Texas likes to enforce laws, but the heavy-handedness it manages crime is no less wrong. This is the state where preemptive strike George governed. Not a lot of thought coming from our dear pres and none from the state that bred him.
I guess I'm heartless. | 6:05 p.m. April 13, 2008
First I want to say, waaaa, 2nd I want to say, when I read this, it reminded me
of Katrina, these poor people all stuck in one place. Oh wait, big difference,
the Katrina people were robbed, raped and even killed, they had no clues where
their families were, oh, and they didn't have this Utopia to return to,
being this little shut off world with everything that is wanted. I am sorry, I
do feel bad for these children, but I feel worse for the girls when they reach
age 12 and have some wrinkled old man take them to bed "spiritually".
Let's see, if we weigh this, a week, a month away from home and family vs.
child rape, I think I know where my sympathy goes to.
Thomas | 6:01 p.m. April 13, 2008
At the time of the Short Creek raid, Americans were shocked by such storm
trooper tactics. In the era of waterboarding, this sadly is no longer the case.
The state of Texas is moving forward with their efforts to destroy these
families. Will no one stop this evil?
Why are the sources ... | 6:10 p.m. April 13, 2008
... all identified by first name only? If the women are that terrified to own
their own identities, then no wonder there's such confusion in sorting out
whose children belong to whom.
The accompanying video today includes a mother saying she goes every day trying to see her children but they won't let her in. I'm wondering, Deseret News reporters: Is she one of the ones who refuses to give authorities her first and last name as well? Is the strange secrecy part of the problem here?
As I see it, a little communication will go a long way to sorting out if any crimes have been committed and reuniting the families involved in this situation. Merely existing as "Dorothy" won't cut it. In fact, it's just as fishy as a phone call from an unidentified 16-year-old.
If these women are this terrified and mired in secrecy and groupthink, is it any surprise this 16-year-old girl was as well?
The accompanying video today includes a mother saying she goes every day trying to see her children but they won't let her in. I'm wondering, Deseret News reporters: Is she one of the ones who refuses to give authorities her first and last name as well? Is the strange secrecy part of the problem here?
As I see it, a little communication will go a long way to sorting out if any crimes have been committed and reuniting the families involved in this situation. Merely existing as "Dorothy" won't cut it. In fact, it's just as fishy as a phone call from an unidentified 16-year-old.
If these women are this terrified and mired in secrecy and groupthink, is it any surprise this 16-year-old girl was as well?
how do we know this info is true | 6:37 p.m. April 13, 2008
It's funny how people who insist the initial phone call is a
"prank" or a "ruse",assume that this report, which is based
on nothing but supposed phone calls from people who use only their first names,
is correct. All hearsy, all rumor. Nothing verfied.
I don't have a problem with the polygamy, excpet of course FLDS's attempts to "bleed the beast" with their welfare fraud. I do have aproblem with 12-14 married against their will. With people who think that people can do whatever they want as long as it's "their religion".
I've been following the doings of the flds for years. Not many people cared about human rights and civil rights and due process of all the "lost boys" kicked out of flds, the members of the church, who when they dared question Jeffs, lost their wives and children b/c they were "reassigned" to people of Jeffs choosing.
If this "raid" had resulted in another Jonestown you would probably be bawling about how the government failed these people.
I just hope that the girls who want to leave can leave and the moms who want to leave get full custody of their kids.
I don't have a problem with the polygamy, excpet of course FLDS's attempts to "bleed the beast" with their welfare fraud. I do have aproblem with 12-14 married against their will. With people who think that people can do whatever they want as long as it's "their religion".
I've been following the doings of the flds for years. Not many people cared about human rights and civil rights and due process of all the "lost boys" kicked out of flds, the members of the church, who when they dared question Jeffs, lost their wives and children b/c they were "reassigned" to people of Jeffs choosing.
If this "raid" had resulted in another Jonestown you would probably be bawling about how the government failed these people.
I just hope that the girls who want to leave can leave and the moms who want to leave get full custody of their kids.
maklelan | 6:39 p.m. April 13, 2008
I think many people here need to be aware that there were no polygamous
marriages taking place in Eldorado. The men legally married to one wife would
only cohabit with another woman without a civil marriage of any kind. It's
no different than Hugh Hefner shacking up with six teenage girls. The only crime
that has been alleged is child abuse, and that charge has not been shown to be
substantiated in any capacity. They believe different things than most of you,
and in this country that's not a crime. If you claim that they need to be
rooted out for their beliefs then you need to find another country to live in
where your rights are more important than someone else's.
love the lord | 6:47 p.m. April 13, 2008
This is downright ABUSE! To hold Americans hostige like this.And keep mothers
away from their babies.These people Never were in a compound until DCFS took
them to this one!! They are trying for all they are worth to find anything to
prosecute this unpopular religion.These poor little ones being harassed day
after day.
These children are taught the Book of Mormon, Bible,Book of Jasher(to name some) And they strive to live ALL of God's laws....SOOO why are we as a society so against them??? Do we truly believe the bible to be the word of God? They believe in Prayer ,Faith in God,and Purity in all things. How can you justify this when there is no evidence a crime ever occured?? ATROCIOUS... Let them worship how where or what they may. And let them "COME OUT OF THE WORLD ,OH YE MY PEOPLE AND BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS". Every person in this society has free agency to leave at any time they want to.. But they are happy serving God and have the assurance that their path is pleasing in his sight. WAKE UP TO WHAT REAL ABUSE IS!!! But please do not harass innocent people like this!!
These children are taught the Book of Mormon, Bible,Book of Jasher(to name some) And they strive to live ALL of God's laws....SOOO why are we as a society so against them??? Do we truly believe the bible to be the word of God? They believe in Prayer ,Faith in God,and Purity in all things. How can you justify this when there is no evidence a crime ever occured?? ATROCIOUS... Let them worship how where or what they may. And let them "COME OUT OF THE WORLD ,OH YE MY PEOPLE AND BE NOT PARTAKERS OF HER SINS". Every person in this society has free agency to leave at any time they want to.. But they are happy serving God and have the assurance that their path is pleasing in his sight. WAKE UP TO WHAT REAL ABUSE IS!!! But please do not harass innocent people like this!!
Laura | 6:44 p.m. April 13, 2008
If they have evidence a child, or children, have been abused, why haven't
they arrested the ABUSER and leave the rest of these people alone? It is
interesting to note that Marleigh Meisner, the spokesperson for CSP, was also
involved in the Waco raid.
This is a tragedy | 7:09 p.m. April 13, 2008
created by a lie!
Armchair quarterbacks? | 7:15 p.m. April 13, 2008
What a wonderful age we live in with all the information we could ask for
readily available through the media--internet, TV, paper, etc. Problem is that
we end up relying upon the often biased and sensationalized reporting of a few.
Before criticizing the authorities, you'll need to go back and sit in on every conversation/interaction leading up to this point--phone calls, meeting with the leaders on both sides, living on the ranch and in the community, etc. You'll also have to be present for the initial "raid" and go see for yourselves the current living conditions.
As a communication "fan" I would caution everyone to make sure they have an accurate picture of BOTH sides of the story. Yes, this has got to be a stressful, frustrating, confusing situation for many of the kids involved. The FLDS adults that are used to this lifestyle will obviously see themselves as victims and cry foul. However, the same laws that they claim protection under also protect others (ie. innocent children.)
Authorities already admitted they had no idea how big this was going to be. Still, if they waited and someone else got hurt, there would be more outcry. Tough situation!
Before criticizing the authorities, you'll need to go back and sit in on every conversation/interaction leading up to this point--phone calls, meeting with the leaders on both sides, living on the ranch and in the community, etc. You'll also have to be present for the initial "raid" and go see for yourselves the current living conditions.
As a communication "fan" I would caution everyone to make sure they have an accurate picture of BOTH sides of the story. Yes, this has got to be a stressful, frustrating, confusing situation for many of the kids involved. The FLDS adults that are used to this lifestyle will obviously see themselves as victims and cry foul. However, the same laws that they claim protection under also protect others (ie. innocent children.)
Authorities already admitted they had no idea how big this was going to be. Still, if they waited and someone else got hurt, there would be more outcry. Tough situation!
Concerned in Ohio | 7:19 p.m. April 13, 2008
Regardless of right or wrong of removing these women and children, looking at
these cell phone images they need better living conditions immediately.
Overcrowding like that can only lead to spread of illnesses and trauma. If the
state is going to take children they need to provide them with a decent place to
live
Layola | 7:19 p.m. April 13, 2008
So they live in cramped quarters. Big deal.
The children take a long time to go to sleep at night. Big deal.
But to allege that the children were touched inappropriatly is most likely a flat out lie.
These women are lying and saying they don't know their birthdates.
Only 30some have given their birthdates. Why lie?
If there is one thing we all know is the records are very important. The FLDS women know when they were born!
The children take a long time to go to sleep at night. Big deal.
But to allege that the children were touched inappropriatly is most likely a flat out lie.
These women are lying and saying they don't know their birthdates.
Only 30some have given their birthdates. Why lie?
If there is one thing we all know is the records are very important. The FLDS women know when they were born!
Diana | 8:36 p.m. April 13, 2008
While it would make more sense to arrest the abusers and leave the women and
children at the ranch, it can't be done at this point. The authorities have
no right to arrest any of the men before they've made an investigation.
Some of the men may be single, widowed or only have one willing adult wife.
me | 9:10 p.m. April 13, 2008
"But to allege that the children were touched inappropriately is most
likely a flat out lie."
Children who are taught to be as modest as these children have been, would feel violated by an intrusive examination. Heck, I would have been! Those children will probably refuse to see a doctor ever again even if they need to!
If the biggest problem is that the children and mothers won't say who is who, do some DNA tests. That would have been a lot less intrusive and could have been done on the premises without taking anyone away.
As far as women lying about their own ages and birthdays, how many women like to admit their ages?
Children who are taught to be as modest as these children have been, would feel violated by an intrusive examination. Heck, I would have been! Those children will probably refuse to see a doctor ever again even if they need to!
If the biggest problem is that the children and mothers won't say who is who, do some DNA tests. That would have been a lot less intrusive and could have been done on the premises without taking anyone away.
As far as women lying about their own ages and birthdays, how many women like to admit their ages?
Gas Chambers | 9:18 p.m. April 13, 2008
I'm just wondering when they are going to send these people from the
concentration camp to the gas chambers.....
Now that's a scary thought.
I'm not condoning the bad things some of those that call themselves FLDS have done, but the state of Texas has gone too far. If they can do it to them, what's to stop them from doing it to anyone else.
SCARY!
Now that's a scary thought.
I'm not condoning the bad things some of those that call themselves FLDS have done, but the state of Texas has gone too far. If they can do it to them, what's to stop them from doing it to anyone else.
SCARY!
Breaking the Law | 9:54 p.m. April 13, 2008
It really doesn't seem to even come down to abuse or religion, etc. For
whatever reason, these people were breaking the law; practicing polygamy. A call
was made, allegations set forth, other laws might be being broken? Okay, start
searching. Oh, look, NO ONE WILL ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS! Well, the children may
not be able to tell who the parents are, but the parents? So, we haul them all
off. I do not like what is happening. As a mother of four young children, I can
understand the stress of caring for a child in the situations these mothers
currently face. However, it really come down to laws being broken. Let us hope
it can all be worked out to the best advantage of everyone from this point;
abuse or no abuse.
CMArizona | 10:27 p.m. April 13, 2008
I always get angry reading these added comments. I am amazed at the lack of
compassion for everyone involved. It is never easy doing something unpopular but
when it comes to keeping children safe from sexual abuse, but right is right.
Living in a polygamist environment in this era will never work because it is
illegal. FLDS can always move to Mexico like the "Church of the first
Born" did. Most of the Le baron's killed each other. The only
difference between this group and a family with a father that is a pedophile is
that there are more of them. There is much to be done to have a healthy end. Why
don't we all focus on making sure that every momma has a healthy daddy to
go with all of their kids. Sending the mamma's and kids home with daddy is
just wrong. The adults need to prove themselves not the authorities. I will pray
that the mothers hearts will be touched and someone will come forward and end
this.
Anonymous | 10:36 p.m. April 13, 2008
"The mothers said the children have also received physical examinations
from medical workers and it has been traumatic to some. Some of the children
have come out crying and screaming," she said. "They were touching
their bodies in inappropriate ways."
What do you think the little 13 year old girls went through on their wedding night!? You didn't care about trauma or inappropriate touching then...
What do you think the little 13 year old girls went through on their wedding night!? You didn't care about trauma or inappropriate touching then...
concerned citizen | 11:01 p.m. April 13, 2008
I have to agree with a prior comment that "their right to silence"
has brought this down on their heads. If they had spoken up and stated what was
happening in their homes it could have been determined who was being abused, and
since this was not done. it has to be determined that they are all at risk
especially with the obvious child brides, in the shelters women who are
obviously 13 years old with two children. SICK.
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An image taken from a cell phone inside one of the shelters shows the living conditions of the women and children who were removed from the YFZ Ranch.
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